Playing games with digital sound via tv
The title says it all really. Some of you may have read that i'm getting the z-680. I just realized that having them connected to the computer by rca-cables aren't really gonna do much good. If there's any music i want to hear i could just burn it and then play it through my dvd player.
But then i remembered that many of the reviews about the speakers i've read (i've read about 15 or so) mentioned that gaming was really nice with them so now i do want to connect the speakers to the rig and also send out video to the tv. After thinking for a long time on what kinds af cables i was gonna need, how to set it up properly, and also checking out what cables came with my 9800 pro, i remembered something called DVD cabel kits. But i already have enough rca-cables to turn my entire room into an electro magnet and they only (if i understand correctly) send out stereo. But i want surround sound.
So how do i connect my soundcard to the speakers. They will need about 5 meters of cable to reach each other if i run the cables across the floor, or about 10 if i make it properly. But i don't want to do that as mom and i are planning on moving as soon as we can find a good house so i don't want to install this. My mobo is an asus a7n8x E delux and it's the onboard sound that i want to connect. What's s/pdif. It's digital, i know that, but what kinds of cables does it use.
As for video i was thinking about s-vhs and then an s-vhs to scart adapter. My vcr will be what i run video to. My tv only takes antennas. Is there any good adapter for this.
Finally it's the issue about controlles. I might be able to get a place to keep my keyboard and mouse but the cables are to short. Both are connected via ps/2 but the mouse uses an adapter since it's usb from the start. Should i bother extending them or would i be better of looking into rf or bluetooth.
Thanks
EO
But then i remembered that many of the reviews about the speakers i've read (i've read about 15 or so) mentioned that gaming was really nice with them so now i do want to connect the speakers to the rig and also send out video to the tv. After thinking for a long time on what kinds af cables i was gonna need, how to set it up properly, and also checking out what cables came with my 9800 pro, i remembered something called DVD cabel kits. But i already have enough rca-cables to turn my entire room into an electro magnet and they only (if i understand correctly) send out stereo. But i want surround sound.
So how do i connect my soundcard to the speakers. They will need about 5 meters of cable to reach each other if i run the cables across the floor, or about 10 if i make it properly. But i don't want to do that as mom and i are planning on moving as soon as we can find a good house so i don't want to install this. My mobo is an asus a7n8x E delux and it's the onboard sound that i want to connect. What's s/pdif. It's digital, i know that, but what kinds of cables does it use.
As for video i was thinking about s-vhs and then an s-vhs to scart adapter. My vcr will be what i run video to. My tv only takes antennas. Is there any good adapter for this.
Finally it's the issue about controlles. I might be able to get a place to keep my keyboard and mouse but the cables are to short. Both are connected via ps/2 but the mouse uses an adapter since it's usb from the start. Should i bother extending them or would i be better of looking into rf or bluetooth.
Thanks
EO
0
Comments
Let's break this down into manageable bits.
1) You have the speakers and they are 5.1. Your sound card in the PC will output to those speakers and you'll have audio for music, games etc. with whatever configuration that the sound card software provides.
S/P DIF stands for SONY PHILLIPS DIGITAL INTERFACE. It's an RCA looking cable but like the typical RCA cable...you'll need the special digital cable. Pretty common though.
That cable can be connected to the S/P DIF out of the motherboard and go to a home theatre amp that has S/P DIF in...or digital in. If the amp has DTS and Dolby decoding onboard...you can pass through DVD audio for the amp to decode.
S/P DIF digital sound is a single stream hence the single cable. It's like a river that needs to be split into its tributaries. If the source is digital then that stream must be decoded or split into the separate outputs, in this case, speakers.
Stereo music (MP3) is split easily to left and right and a DVD with DTS or Dolby needs to be decoded at the end of the stream just before it is sent for analog amplification.
If you don't have a Dolby or DTS decoder at the amplification end then the signal must be decoded and sent separately via analog lines as separate signals to the amplification device.
If the sound card is feeding an amp that has built in DTS or Dolby then the signal can be sent via the SPDIF cable.
Games use a different encoding format. If your amplification had EAX, EAX2 or HD decoding then you can send the signal via a digital cable (Toslink or Digital) to have the amp decode it to analog.
I haven't seen any home theatre amps with the DTS, Dolby, EAX etc symbols on them but I think we should soon...it's a good idea for the home theatre maket to add another price point option.
Anyway...in order to use non Dolby or DTS sound on an SPDIF link the EAX or HD signal must be decoded then recoded to a form that can be re-decoded by the end amplifier.
Such as Dolby Digital 5.1.
So the signal is converted from EAX (or otherwise) to Dolby Digital 5.1 then sent on the digital connection to the amp to be decoded into separate signals for analog amplification. You add the step of encoding thus "could" affect the original fidelity of the EAX sound as it was originally meant to be.
If you use the sound card to decode EAX sound and send it via the analog outs you are skipping the decoding>encoding>sending>decoding>amplify step.
You are decoding>sending>amplifying thus you don't have any potential loss or misinterpretation of the sound as it was meant to be.
For those that are concerned thinking that using the analog lines will suck in comparison. What matters is the best decoder and where the "dirt" is in the chain to the speakers.
If the home theatre amp has a better decoder then the PC sound card should just pass through the audio and send it digitally to the amp for processing. But if the amp sucks for decoding but has a clean amplification then I'd say use the PC for decoding and send the sound analog to the amp for amplification.
Bottom line: I don't think you'll really notice a difference either way unless you knew what it should sound like or where to listen. You'd need to do proper analysis via professional measuring equipment. But given that all things equal you could probably say that waveform analysis would show that the analog connection would produce better spatial orientation for EAX(2)/HD games though it would be hard to tell by just listening
2) You want to put video to a TV so when you play a game...you can do it on a bigger screen and hear it on the 5.1 aforementioned speakers.
The video card will have SVIDEO output and possibly the digital DVI (HDMI) output.
Best case scenario is a TV with DVI (HDMI) input...those are typically found on HD-Capable TVs.
2nd best is a TV with SVIDEO input
Now...it reads like your TV has neither. In which case you'll need the SVIDEO>SCART convertor you mentioned.
Bottom line is that you won't get good desktop resolution above 640x480 period. It'll suck. But DVD movies and games will look just fine. Reason being is that NTSC TVs have only 240 lines of resolution (480 interlaced) and that's really only 240 pixels of resolution...which is a far cry from even a 640x480 desktop which is a non-interlaced signal.
Now where you are I imagine you are PAL...which is a 480 Progressive signal....480 lines of active resolution...so it may look a bit better for the desktop but you won't be able to bump up to 800x600 and be able to have a clear desktop image.
But don't worry...games work on a different scan level and it will look good..same with movies.
Long winded I know...but I hope it puts you a better level of understanding.
Thanks for the reply but the only part i u think i understood was the one about video.
As for sound. Do you mean that i should stick with rca like i have now. Or a coax/ optical. which would be best.
My soundcard doesn't support eax. If i remember correctly only creative cards do that. Does that matter.
BTW don't you know that the z-680 have built in decoder for dolby digital and dts. :Rocker:
As for my dvd i was planning on using rca to 3.5 mm stereoplug cables. I have 3 already fastened to each other by means of cable ties. What i have been able to figure out yet is this. According to the manual of my dvd player (Pioneer DV 575A) i must use the analog out's for DVD Audio and SACD. But what about movies. If i understand correctly doing it analog will use the built in decoders in the players, not the ones in the speakers. Is that a bad thing.
Oh and sorry for the long post.
BTW i was kinda hoping to do this with as few cables as possible. Oh well. Is this the kind of cables i need.
If i understand correctly that's the kind that comes with the speakers. Should i get 5 meters worth of those and connect them to the analog plugs on the speaker's control panel, or just extend the ones i get. Moving the computer is out as of now and i can only think of one good place to keep the sub which is quite far from the computer.
As for controls, ps/2 extension cables seems to be my best bet. If i do get a new keyboard and mouse should i get Keytronic which my current keyboard is or shell out for logitech. i know logitech is a good brand but would it be worth it. I don't want any fancy stuff just a way to controll my games. BTW my mouse is a MS wheel mouse optical. I know what you think but it's suited me just fine for the past year or so. If only that could be said about their os's.
cd playback via the dvd went well. Now i''ll try movies. I've tried it with the computer with rca cables and that sounded nice and i have a pretty good idea when it comes to controlling games. But what about sound?
The easiest way for sound would prolly be to get extensions for the analog cables that came with the speakers. Any ideas?
I would like some speedy answers if possible since i was planning on buying what i need tomorrow.
Oh and what about digital sound from the dvd. Do i need special cables for that or will it automaticly be sent through the analog cables.
BTW before i forget. Thanks everyone who recommended these speakers.
First the inputs on the Z-680s
• (1) digital optical for DVD or CD player, PlayStation 2, Xbox*, or PC sound card (requires optical cable, sold separately)
• (1) digital coaxial for DVD or CD player, or PC sound card (requires coaxial cable, sold separately)
• (1) 6-channel direct (3 stereo-mini connectors) for 2-, 4-, or 6-channel PC sound cards
• (1) Analog stereo-mini for portable CD, MP3, or MiniDisc® player
To me the optimum configuration would be to run the Digital Coax cable from the Digital S/P DIF out of the motherboard. The Z-680s would do the DTS and Dolby decoding for you. The PC would just pass through the digital audio signal right to the speakers to be decoded.
Music would also pass digitally through this connection too.
For games the optimum would be to connect the 3 mini plugs (Analog) as well. See my long winded theory for reasoning. You would then choose the best for whatever you were doing at that moment.
But...
For the moment I would say to get a Digtial Coax cable and connect that. DVD and music will sound great and just see how you like gaming. If the game audio is great for you...then you are down to the one digital coax cable connection for getting sound to the Z-680s. No need to be an audiophile and run multiple connections.
If you don't want to spend the money for the digital coax cable then just go with the analog connections as you have now and let the DTS and Dolby decoding be handle by the PC software player.
So as far as your TV hookup.
Obviously we are dealing with SVIDEO output from the video card. You don't have DVI or SVIDEO input on your TV or even RCA if I got that right. It's your VCR that you'll input video into and pass through to the TV.
If you do have RCA video input on the VCR then you'll need an S-Video to composite video adapter like the ones shown at the bottom of the following page
http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/s-video.html
expensive and cheap model shown. Now I'm talking NTSC video here and I'm unsure if you are in PAL or not. Regardless there should be the appropriate adapter where you are for cheap. You'll patch the SVDEO cable to the SVIDEO output of the video card then plug the adapter into the end of that cable and finally into RCA VIDEO IN of the VCR.
If your VCR has SVIDEO input then you don't need the adapter...just the SVIDEO cable.
The video card will have a setting to enable the TV output function which you can fine tune and it shouldn't affect your regular CRT or flat panel viewing/configuration.
S-VHS is just a tape quality format and not applicable to what you are needing to do.
So for sound: coax from the computer to speakers. As long as it's surround i'm sure games will sound just fine.
For video: s-vhs to vcr. RCA is that the same as antenna. If not i'll go with a scart to s-vhs adapter as mentioned earlier. The only inputs on my vcr are antenna and scart.
I'm thinking about getting a scart splitter so i don't have to unplug all the time.
As for sound from the dvdplayer (not in computer) i'm thinking about getting an optical cable. Ideas? For movies should i go analog or digital. I've got analog cables already. I think i only need those for dvd audio.
Edit
I forgot to say that my video system is pal.
SVHS is a type of recording on a tape...not an input or output signal. The word is SVIDEO that you want to be using in this converstation.
Your video card should have an SVGA or DVI output...what you hook your computer monitor up to. It may/should also have an SVIDEO output which is the round looking connection with multiple pins.
Your VCR...it doesn't matter if it says SVHS on the front.
Snce your VCR only has antenna or SCART then you'll need an SVIDEO to SCART adapter
http://www.hificables.co.uk/ProductDetails/mcs/ProductID/10900/GroupID/709/CategoryID/2387/v/5e7015ef-5570-4da6-9909-8abefc0552d5
How is your TV cable signal hooked up from the wall to the TV? (I assume you have a cable signal and aren't picking up TV via rabbit ears - the good old fashioned kind)
Does it go wall>VCR Scart IN>TV
Or does it go wall>VCR ANTENNA IN>TV?
Or does it go wall>TV and your VCR is hooked up another way?
if it does go wall>VCR ANTENNA IN>TV and the SCART IN on the VCR is still free then that adpater will do. No splitter needed. The PC signal will travel from SVIDEO output of the card along the cable through the SVIDEO to SCART adapater into the SCART IN of the VCR...and finally to the TV.
But if you do run from the wall to SCART IN on the VCR then SCART from the VCR to the TV then you'll need the splitter. One of these will do. I'm not recommending any particular one.
https://secure16.easyspace.com/www.strachan-direct.co.uk/acatalog/STRACHAN_ELECTRONICS_Audio_and_Video_Splitters__Switches_and_Extenders_12.html
Either way...the two way splitter which I saw at the cheapest of £5.53 should help you out.
Remember I don't deal in SCART where I am. I'm just looking at it the same way you are...connect the dots.
Sound:
Do you have the miniplug ANALOG cables already? Those will get all sound from the analog outs of the motherboard to the Z-680s. No added expense and I really do doubt you'll hear that much of a difference in sound quality over COAX. The only obvious benefit is offloading a smidge of CPU time needed to decode DVD in the box rather than at the speaker end.
If you feel like spending the £ then buy a COAX cable and run it that way. You can say you have a digital connection from the PC to the speakers for DVD and music.
And see how games sound over that connection.
I think your motherobard has a COAX DIGITAL output...not OPTICAL. If you play movies from the PC to the TV then you go from the DVD disc through the computer to the COAX DIGITAL OUT to the COAX DIGITAL IN on the Z-680s.
But if you want to plug the DVD player DIRECTLY into the Z-680s then do it this way.
PC>Z-680s via COAX DIGITAL IN
DVD PLAYER via OPTICAL OUT to OPTICAL IN on the Z-680s
There isn't a difference in sound quality OPTICAL vs. COAX on short runs (under 10 metres).
That way you can have the PC and DVD standalone player hooked up the Z-680s both at the same time.
Phew...and you wanted to avoid mass amounts of cables. LOL.
Remember to measure twice before buying your cables. You don't want to buy a cable that's too short to reach.
Hopefully this puts you closer to a solution. my fingers are tired.
ok
It has both a svideo out as well is dvi but i'm using the svideo
The one i'm planning on getting looks kinda different but it's mostly the same thing.
Actually it goes: wall>cable decoder>vcr scart as well as antenna>tv. For some reason both scart as well as antenna is needed for the decoder to work.
BTW for a while now i have no channels from the decoder. Don't subscribe to any. the ordinary cable channels don't need it. I'm thinking about removing it. That would really take away some cable clutter and perhaps help. No splitter needed then. I'll think about it.
Twoway will fit me just fine. One port is used by the decoder and one by the dvd player.
I've got 3 of these tied together with cable ties as i said earlier but they will run from the dvd to the speakers not the computer. My dvd player supports dvd audio and sacd and i need those for the analog sounds. The computer is to far away so i can't use them there.
Almost right. See my above post. i didn't see this one before posting. :banghead:
whiner. I've written a lot more then you have.
Newegg says it is a lite-on keyboard, but there are absolutely no lite-on markings anywhere on the keyboard or the box or the software...so look for one that is similar...
Thanks for that mediaman, That gets printed and stashed.
My brother who has a "real" hometheather setup has said that i can use his old wires (monster), leftover from when he switched to 7.1, but if i get those i want to have proper cable channels and i don't want those before i move (whenever that will be).
The only thing i don't know is wether or not to prepair for dvd audio. If i do i'll need those cables mentioned in post 12, but if i want to connect the computer to the speakers i'll need one of those cables. Another one will be needed between my vcr and the speakers and i don't feel like bying 2 of them if i don't need to.
The manual for the dvd said that the audio-video cable included could also be used as a coax cable. Instead of asking you about it i tried it on and it worked. It has 3 cables stuck together. Red, white and yellow. The yellow one was the one meant for video but, worked well as coax as well. I had to start a movie for the control panel to notice it but then it worked fine.
One thing that would be nice would be to use the z-680 wíth my computer but there's a big problem that only playing from the tv will solve. The computer screen is at a 90 degree angle from the tv. In other words what is left when i watch tv is front for the computer. Is there some way to change the orientation using the speaker amp as well as soundcard without moving the speakers. I'll try but i'm not sure i'll succeed.
Hope this clear it up
...............Door
...............................tv, dvd vcr
.left front................sub...center.................................right front
desktop
monitor facing wall
computer
left rear.................................................................right rear
....................................window
If not i could take some pics.
BTW there's no way i'm moving my computer. I've tried it but i'ts never looked good and i know that having the tv facing a windows is a bad idea but i can't change that either hence why i hope that mom and i find a new house soon.
I removed the decoder yesterday which wasn't used anyway.
Audiophile cable...Monster or otherwise...is a debatable point. Cabling really matters on longer runs (50-100 feet) and that's mainly due to shielding. Long cable runs can act like antennas at times pulling in radio stations and other interference. I've had it happen to me when running long snakes when mixing bands at a live concert.
The audiophile side of the argument says that "it'll sound so much better" if you spend a kazillion dollars on speaker wires. "Get the gold inlay, oxygen free, shielded stuff."
The economist says the cheapy speaker wire will do just fine.
On runs of 10-20 feet...Does it matter? I challenge you to test it out and really see if you can hear a difference. Not on that short of a run.
Now...do I have $$$$ expensive cable on my home theatre? Yes...because I got a deal. A friend of mine worked in an industrial cable supply shop and he phoned me up and said "do you want some really good speaker cable? I've got 12 miles of it on a spool."
Yes...12 miles of it.
So he spun me off $500 feet and gave it to me.
"Monster" cable is good to say that you have "Monster Cable"...ooo...awww. It's like NIKE...a brand name. There are other cabling that is of better quality if you want to do the Audiophile thing.
I would say that the optical or digital cable is where you want to spend your money. Most audiophiles don't buy complete cable sets for speakers. They buy the wire and their personal choice of plugs for the speakers and then buy gold solder and do it themselves.
It's all up to you as to how you want to wire the system. I wouldn't say that, at this stage, you'll notice a difference cheap vs not cheap speaker wire. Put your bucks into getting what you need to enjoy the system then you can always upgrade the speaker wire later. It's easy to get it all at once when you have oodles of money sitting around...but we don't. Get what you need to get you enjoying the system..then upgrade later on.
You can go to any hifi audiophile forum and read a ton on the great debate on matching speakers, best audio cables, phase matching, acoustic balancing...and oodles of other stuff to boggle your mind.
My advice? Do you enjoy it now? Are you happy? Then that's all that matters.
Thanks i know.
The cabling will be given to me too but for now i'll use standard speaker wire. At the moment i have to move the rear satelites and it's no fun. Besides the front right is already wired with it since the included wires was to short. i doubt that i'll hear a differens when i don't even know how good quality sounds like.
That's some deal.
I am happy. It's nice that the cheap cable included with the dvd player actually worked as a coax audio cable since it was meant for video.
I tested a datacd with music on it and there was no differens between digital and analog but when i repeated the test with the movie volcano in the scene when the lava has first appeared before the bang, speech disappeared in analog mode but returned when i switched back to digital again (which i did just in time to hear the eruption). I'm not sure why but now i know that i have to use digital for movies.
I don't think i'll be playing any sacd or dvd audio so i'll remove the wires i showed in post 12. I need them to connect the computer and vcr to the speakers. Both will be connected to the input in the front but of course not at the same time.
I know that 10 meters wort of coax cable wouldn't set me back much but if i can't play games via the tv there's no point in having surround sound. Stereo will suit me just fine. With this i consider this long discussion ended. i now know what i need.
After moving and getting more money here's what i'm getting:
1-2 meters of optical cable between speakers and dvd
2-5 meters of true coax cable between computer and speakers
wireless keyboard and mouse, prolly logitech to insure compatibility with the speakers.
2-5 meters of s-video cable between computer and tv, mayby with adapter
monster cable and cable channels
32' widescreen tv with as many inputs as possible costing less than 10.000 SEK. Luckly that's possible to find though i don't have that kind of money now.
The only part of the above which wont cost me anything is the monster cables. The rest can be made very expensive or not, all i know is that i already dislike movies without a DTS track. Oh well