What is Phase cooling?

CyrixInsteadCyrixInstead Stoke-on-Trent, England Icrontian
edited June 2003 in Hardware
I know this is probably a stupid question, but what is phase cooling?

Just saw it on the main short-media page. 'Cooling - Air, Water or Phase', and was curious.

Comments

  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    Phase-change takes a liquid coolant and evaporates at an extremely high speed. This effect produces extremely cold temperatures in conjunction with a compressor and synthetic freon derivatives.
  • CyrixInsteadCyrixInstead Stoke-on-Trent, England Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    Sounds expensive. Is it any good?
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    About $800 USD for a Prometia system.

    Phase-change cooling is the most powerful long-term solution for cooling available. We're talking temperatures in the negatives.
  • CyrixInsteadCyrixInstead Stoke-on-Trent, England Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    Cool (no pun intended). Is it widely used? I've heard of the Vapochill system http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_VapoChill_125.html and this cools to sub-zero temps. Is this a phase cooling system?
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    VapoChill is indeed a phase-change system, but the Prometia is its superior counterpart.

    Widely used? No, not really.
  • GargGarg Purveyor of Lincoln Nightmares Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    Would a bong cooler also be considered phase-change? They're supposed to be effective, both on heat and your wallet. Adds an element of humidity to the house without proper ventilation though.
  • MediaManMediaMan Powered by loose parts.
    edited June 2003
    Phase cooling is exactly like your refrigerator. Phase cooling for a PC is...a mini fridge for your PC and as you can see by the previous posts...it is expensive.

    Water cooling isn't exactly phase change cooling.

    Starting from the most simple...heatsink and fan. A processor generates a tremendous amount of heat in a ver small area. The heatsink provides a medium for that heat to be transferred to...so now where does it go.

    Into the air.

    A fan provides airflow past the fins of the heatsink which, because of the surface area of the many fins, air molecules have the ability to carry away some of the heat.

    It's like having 1000 people build a brick wall instead of one.


    Water cooling is more efficient. Heat transfers to water much better than metal to air. So the water cooling heatsink is only providing a larger area to "wick" away the heat from the processor core. The larger the area...the more water can come in contact with the warm heatsink plate.

    Since heat is a more efficient transfer medium than air...the water is better at "sucking away" the heat from the heatsink plate...there is a constant exchange of water therefore the warmed water is circulated out to be replaced by cooler water from the reservoir.

    Note: on the way back to the reservoir the water will have to pass through a radiator, which like your car, has a fan blade...the same principle as a fan and heatsink applies. The water is given a tremendous area in which to "lose" it's kenetic or heat energy by way of passing through the many loops of the radiator which cooler air is passing through.

    In both cases room temperature is the threshold. You can't get near room temperature with air but you can get closer to it with water. But since the water has no active cooling...such as phase change (refridgeration) then obviously it can't go below room temperature. BUT water is much more efficient at cooling the processor than air.

    Phase change cooling ads the element of refridgeration to the liquid that is passing through the waterblock that sits on the core. Now you have cold liquid not only wicking away the heat but actively COOLING the processor core.

    Like an ice cube in a drink.

    Peltier devices can be introduced because when current is applied to the Peltier "slab"...one side goes cold...and the other side becomes hot. So the cold side sits on the processor core cooling it...but then you have to have some device like a water block to wick away the heat from the hot side. Otherwise the Peltier device just burns up.

    There have been many home made contraption devices discussed to cheaply cool a reservoir. One such discussion involved putting the reservoir in one of those 12 volt mini coolers or inside a mini-bar fridge.

    This is, as you may have guessed, introducing phase change cooling.

    Hope this helps.
  • edcentricedcentric near Milwaukee, Wisconsin Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    There are some big electronic systems that are phase change cooled with water. Of course that means that you are running at 100C!!
    The reason that you do it (phase change) is that a liquid requires much more heat to boil it than it does to just heat it up. heating a pound of water from room temp to boiling takes 140 BTUs. To boil that same pound (at 212F, just change from liquid to gas) takes 970 BTU.
    You use the boiling phase change to absorb the energy and then you recompress and condense the fluid in an external system and send it back again.
    A heat pipe is a passive phase change cooling system.
    You need low boiling fluids to build systems to cool at low temps. There is some temperature control in the pressure that you use. Take R12 freon for example. At 10 psi it boils at -37F , at 100psi it boils at 81F and at 400 psi it boils at 193F.
    Systems like Vapochill and Promedia use mechanical compressors like any freezer or AC unit. There are also some chillers that use acustic compressors. Think powerful speakers. These have no moving parts.
  • KhaosKhaos New Hampshire
    edited June 2003
    Gargoyle said
    Would a bong cooler also be considered phase-change? They're supposed to be effective, both on heat and your wallet. Adds an element of humidity to the house without proper ventilation though.
    Yes, a 'bong cooler' is a phase-change cooling system. It differs from the commerical computer cooling productions in that the phase change occurs in the resevoir and it is generally passive, relying on naturally occuring evaporation. This evaporation is accellerated by forcing water through small holes, effectively seperating the water into many tiny droplets which increases convection from air to water and results in some of the water vaporizing.

    Compressors are more commonly used in computer phase-change applications. These work by taking a refrigerant that would normally exist as a gas at room temperature and compressing it into liquid form. The liquid refrigerant then passes through an expansion valve or passes by a capillary tube where it is allowed to return to its gaseous state. In doing so, the refrigerant draws in heat energy from the surrounding materials. It all operates on the principal that gas holds far more heat energy than a liquid. After the gas absorbs heat energy it eventually makes its way back to the compressor, where it is liquidified and releases most of the heat energy that it was holding. The lower the boiling point of a refrigerant, the more heat energy it will absorb when it is vaporized. These are the same concepts used in home refrigerators and the like.

    There are essentially two forms of computer refrigeration: On die and resevoir refrigeration. On die refrigeration means that the vaporization takes place in what would be the 'water block' of a watercooling solution. In other words, it takes place right at the site of the heat source (CPU). This is generally more effective and more expensive than other forms of refrigeration, and it is employed in the commerical systems like Prometia and VapoChill. Resevoir type systems use insulated watercooling setups that run a mixture of coolant and water. The refrigeration takes place in the resevoir. While on die systems are more efficient, resevoir systems can be made more powerful because the size constraints of the system are minimized. As long as you have the space for a giant, dual-phase (Two compressors, two evaporators, etc) refrigeration setup, then it's possible. The problem then becomes finding a solution that remains a liquid at temperatures approaching -60C.

    Lastly, and in my mind, most importantly, phase change doesn't have to be expensive. Anybody can build an in-resevoir phase change cooler for almost nothing. Find an old air conditioner and steal its compressor. Compressors from air conditioners usually work a lot better than those from refrigerators or freezers because they're more powerful and are designed to work with refrigerants that have lower boiling points. Then you just need to learn as much as you can on the subject and you should be able to build your own system relatively cheaply. If that seems like too much, then you can BUY an air conditioner for a couple of hundred bucks and easily adapt it to cool a resevoir by essentially sticking the evaporator in a bucket. From there on out, it's a matter of insulation, insulation, insulation and setting things up like a normal watercooler (Sans radiator).

    Anyway, I love phase change discussions, so I just thought I'd add in my own crash course and build on MM's and ed's contributions.
  • GargGarg Purveyor of Lincoln Nightmares Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    I think I've heard that a dehumidfier can be used in a similar manner to cool a resevoir. Can someone elaborate?
  • KhaosKhaos New Hampshire
    edited June 2003
    It's all the same... Any refrigeration unit; AC, fridge, dehumidifier, deep freezer, etcetera can be used to cool a resevoir. You just stick the evaporator in the resevoir.

    The issue is which prefabbed refrigeration unit is the best one for the job. Air conditioning units are, IMHO, best because they generally use R22 as a refrigerant and have more powerful compressors than refrigerators or freezers, and dehumidifiers at that. You see, fridges, non-commerical freezers and dehumidifiers aren't really made to cool something quickly. They are intended to gradually bring something to a low temperature or condense moisture from the air. Thus, they are relatively low powered compared to a commerical deep freezer or an air conditioner.

    You've also got to look at the form that they come in. For our uses, air conditioners and dehumidifiers are way more attractive than refrigerators and freezers because they come in a small package. Fridges often have the condensor waaaay spread out throughout the insulation material, and they are very bulky. If the evaporator won't fit in a reasonably sized resevoir, then it won't do you much good. Likewise, if the condensor (Like the opposite of the evaporator) is the size of a fridge and totally spread out, then it's not going to do you any good without modification - And if you're skilled enough to modify the condensor, why'd you even bother ripping the system out of the fridge in the first place? Just snag the compressor and go from there...

    The other nice thing about air conditioners is that they are plainly rated in terms of BTU's, so it's easy to judge how well they will cool - Not necessarily in terms of actual temperature, but relatively speaking compared to other air conditioners - It's easy to pick one out that will cool better than another.
  • fuxorfuxor i live in a giant bucket
    edited June 2003
    unless the prometeia prices have almost doubled, I think $800 is a wee high...

    Directly cooling a cpu with phase change is just like a small version of your a/c with the evaporator (the part that gets really cold) sitting right on the socket. I used phase change indirectly by using a dehumidifier as a chiller in my water-cooling loop, pictured below
  • edited June 2003
    Uh, fuxor, Chip Con just came out with a new version of the prommie, the Mach 2 and it's right on $1000. The old version can still be had for less than half of that though.

    Damn, that price is crazy for the new model. With pricing like that maybe Kryotech will consider making some barebones kits in the future.
  • fuxorfuxor i live in a giant bucket
    edited June 2003
    wow i wasn't aware there was a new prometeia out... I was thinking of the older model.

    for $1000 it'd better get under -50C
  • TheLostSwedeTheLostSwede Trondheim, Norway Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    I want that Lian-Li modded Mach II baaadly. It looks absoulutely fab! $1600 is a bit steep though. But one of theese days....
  • edcentricedcentric near Milwaukee, Wisconsin Icrontian
    edited June 2003
    I'll take a slightly different stand than some of the earlier posts.
    Phase change cooling involves using the phase change of a working fluid to remove the heat from the source. External compressor cooled devices and 'bongs' may involve phase changes, but in those cases it isn't the primary cooling. It is secondary.
  • KhaosKhaos New Hampshire
    edited June 2003
    When the primary cooling action relies entirely on 'secondary' cooling action, I think it becomes a moot point. Most compressor based systems are aimed at sub-ambient temperatures and thus have no radiators involved. Without the phase change component the liquid temperature would simply rise until the computer was destroyed or automatically turned off.
Sign In or Register to comment.