Blow holes

athalonheadathalonhead Member
edited August 2005 in Hardware
I got my new computer running. I havent installed windows yet.I had the multiplier set at 12.0v and the fsb/cpu external at 166mhz =cpu 2000mhz

The room temp was 79f cpu temp was 113
After removing the side pannel cpu temp went to 105/107f
So I think I have bad case flow.? it has 2 exhaust fansCOOLER MASTER SAF-S84-E1 80 x 80 x 25mm SuperFlo Cooling Fan 1400rpm

I have read the air flow guide and it seems like exhaust fans and no intakes is the best way to go.

What i am going to do is cut out the rear fan openings and install fan shrouds
I also am going to install blow holes. I was thinking 2 80 mm fans with grilles.
would one blowhole be good enough and 2 be overkill?or one big fan?

I was thinking using the same coolermaster fans for the blow hole or these 2000rpm fans
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811999073

Will that be enough? or should I get higher rpm/flow fans? Also trying to keep it quiet

Comments

  • JonseyJonsey Microsoft Corporation
    edited July 2005
    Equal Pressure is your friend.

    3 quiet fans in, 3 quiet fans out.

    Cooler temperatures, quieter running, less dust.
  • sfleurietsfleuriet Texas New
    edited July 2005
    yes he's definitely right. Back with my old case, I had the fans just wacked up, and all blowing out. When I fixed them and evened them out, I had dramatic temperature drops not only in my case, but in my room as well :)
  • RADARADA Apple Valley, CA Member
    edited July 2005
    Jonsey wrote:
    Equal Pressure is your friend.

    3 quiet fans in, 3 quiet fans out.

    Cooler temperatures, quieter running, less dust.

    Agree, equal or a very slight negative(at the cost of a few more dust bunnies) is most perfered.


    I have an all aluminum Cooler Master w/ a top blow hole. Even during gaming, the air coming out of the top is just above room temp.
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited July 2005
    I think more air coming out is better. If you have any fans coming in its best to have one blowing over the HDDs in the front or over the video card/CPU.

    Cutting out the fan opening and installing a wire guard thing would be best for airflow.
  • edited July 2005
    Yep, depending on the case design, cutting those restrictive stamped fan grills out can make a hell of a difference in airflow, plus lower fan noise too.
  • profdlpprofdlp The Holy City Of Westlake, Ohio
    edited July 2005
    mmonnin wrote:
    I think more air coming out is better.
    I am going to go against conventional wisdom and say the opposite. I've never seen a case hold air to the extent that it builds up any significant amount of pressure. All the air coming in will manage to find its way back out again.

    Good heat transfer depends on a number of factors, including the size and efficiency of the heat exchanger, plus rate of flow. The more cool(er) air you blow over the heat exchanger (your heat sinks, etc), the better your cooling. This is not to say you should have no exhaust fans, just that you should not neglect air intake.

    If you have any fans coming in its best to have one blowing over the HDDs in the front or over the video card/CPU.
    A few years ago I experimented with a full tower case that had fan brackets galore. I tried every combination in the book. (Front-to-rear; bottom-to-top; and vice-versa in each case.) One fan blowing in from the side right over the CPU/Video Card area did more good than all the rest of the fans put together. Once I realized this I cut a big honkin' hole in the side and mounted a 120mm 120V fan and got rid of all the others, with the exception of a lone exhaust fan at the rear and another intake fan at the front just ahead of the HD bay area.

    Cutting out the fan opening and installing a wire guard thing would be best for airflow.
    Definitely. If you add up all the space of all the pathetic little 1/4" holes typically found in a stamped-out case fan grille you end up with a net area about the size of a Necco wafer. Your poor 80mm fan will be beating itself to death bouncing air off the metal obstructions.
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited July 2005
    But with more air coming in the airflow through the case is not currect. Air gets shoved into holes IE lower PCI slots that dont need airflow. With the air being pulled out in the currect location and some air being pushed into the case in the correct position you recieve the best airflow path; In Low and Out High.
  • profdlpprofdlp The Holy City Of Westlake, Ohio
    edited July 2005
    I agree with everything you wrote.

    My point is that without enough air coming in, you won't get optimal heat transfer no matter how much you are pulling out. Your point about air settling in odd places like "lower PCI slots that dont need airflow" is well taken, but it works both ways. Without cool air directed to the hotspots you'll end up sucking air from everywhere, leaving possible dead spots where you truly need good airflow.

    My example of the 120mm 120V fan blowing cool air directly onto the CPU/Video Card area shows this. All of that air coming in will absorb a lot of heat. Whichever way it finds its way out, it will definitely be removed from the hottest part of the case - the CPU.

    "In Low and Out High" is the best solution for the vast majority of cases. I just recommend having a big fan blowing in on the side to make sure that your CPU doesn't end up being bypassed in the process.

    While we're on the subject, what do you all think of case ducts? I've never tried one, but it looks like an inexpensive DIY project. A $2 mylar tube and a pair of scissors and you're in business.
  • MAGICMAGIC Doot Doot Furniture City, Michigan Icrontian
    edited July 2005
    in out in out, the neverending debate. lets just say every case has its best configuration for fans you just have to figure out what works best for your particular application. imo more out than in has worked better in most of my cases. speaking of ducts, i had one of those tt tower coolers. it sucks for socket A because the fans blow up and down instead of front to back so its pushing air right down onto your graphics card. i made a duct out of some paper to direct the air out the back of my case and it cut my 6800 temps by like 9*.
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited July 2005
    I just dont think air needs to be forced in by intake fans. With the fans blowing out the negative pressure will force the air in. And for most cases the largest opening is the front grill, the optimal entrance for cool air. I have a screen in front of me front grill and I taped over other holes in the front so air would go in at the bottom.

    If the only way for air to get in is the front grill and the only way for air to get out is thru the fans in the back or the power supply the air Will take the optimal path. It is being forced when the force is applied from the rear of the case.

    That tube in the pic wont do anything. Its going to take out the coolest air in the case.
  • profdlpprofdlp The Holy City Of Westlake, Ohio
    edited July 2005
    mmonnin wrote:
    ...That tube in the pic wont do anything. Its going to take out the coolest air in the case.
    I chose a poor example of a ducted case. The picture is of one of those upside-down cases where everything is reversed. The CPU would be toward the bottom, just about where the rectangular ridge is on the MB tray.

    So while were on the subject, what do people think of case ducts and/or "upside-down" style cases. :D
  • athalonheadathalonhead Member
    edited July 2005
    You guys all bring up valid points but if you go by you pc airflow and heat tests it really looks like exhaust only is the way to go
    BUT---- this is only my 1st custom computer so I dont know what really works.

    my case has 2 fans spots in the ft for intakes
    2 rear exhaust+I think I want a blowhole
    I will cut out all the griles
    I am going to put the 2 intakes in
    both rear exhaust

    what should I do for the blowhole 1-80 mm/ 2 80mm/ 1-120?

    after I get it back together I will experiment with and without intakes and
    see what happens.
    these coolermaster fans are 2000rpm would they be good enough or should I go with faster ones-also trying to keep it quiet as possible

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811999073
  • Omega65Omega65 Philadelphia, Pa
    edited July 2005
    Either 2 80mm, 1 92mm or 1 120mm blowhole. I like a 120mm blowhole up top, but you'll have to measure carefully to make sure your PSU fits (and you still might lose the top 5.25" bay)
  • profdlpprofdlp The Holy City Of Westlake, Ohio
    edited July 2005
    ...what should I do for the blowhole 1-80 mm/ 2 80mm/ 1-120?
    80mm = 3.15" = approximately 10 square inches of area
    120mm = 4.72" = approximately 22.3 square inches of area

    One 120mm opening will be larger than two 80mm openings. The only advantage of doing two 80mm fans is that you might be able to put them at opposite ends of the case, depending on how much room there is above your PSU and front drive bays.

    after I get it back together I will experiment with and without intakes and see what happens...
    That's the only real way to find out. Every case has its own little quirks and I'll be the first to acknowledge that what works well in one set of circumstances might flat-out stink under other conditions.
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited July 2005
    I would try to find a ball bearing fan instead of a sleeved fan. Quieter and will last longer.
  • GargGarg Purveyor of Lincoln Nightmares Icrontian
    edited July 2005
    I think ball bearings are actually a little noiser than sleeve bearing, but they do last longer. Personally, I've got one of CoolerMaster's Rifle Bearing fans, and I like it.
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited July 2005
    I have never tested that idea, its just what I have heard.
  • JonseyJonsey Microsoft Corporation
    edited July 2005
    mmonnin wrote:
    That tube in the pic wont do anything. Its going to take out the coolest air in the case.

    I just bought and installed a new system in that case shown in the picture, put my 4400+ in it. I'll post my real world results in it soon, but for now, go check this out, it might enlighten you. : )

    Toms: http://www6.tomshardware.com/howto/20041020/case-18.html

    AnandTech: http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling/showdoc.aspx?i=2219

    Looks good in the benchmarks, and other than needing a 3' 4-pin 12v ATX power cable with my A8N-SLI Premium, is incredible. :D
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited July 2005
    Oh, I thought the case was upside down or something the way it was positioned. I thought it was at the bottom of a normal ATX case. Ive never seen that before. Looks like it might work knowing it covers the CPU and not the bottom PCI slots. :rolleyes:
  • JonseyJonsey Microsoft Corporation
    edited July 2005
    Yeah, makes much more sense that way, I'll play with it some tonight, give you some details :D
  • ronboronbo Connecticut
    edited August 2005
    profdlp I like your idea with the large blow hole in the side of the case. I want to do that to give my 6800GT a little more cooling. But I cannot make a choice on what fan to get. I know it will be a 120mm but I want low noise and high cfm..these are the top rated ones at newegg.
    http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16811999139
    http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16811999614
    http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16835129016
    http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16835129030
    any opnions on any of these fans?
  • profdlpprofdlp The Holy City Of Westlake, Ohio
    edited August 2005
    I put in a 120V 120mm Pabst fan. It has its own wiring and bypasses the PSU altogether.

    I'm not really a fan expert, but I'm sure someone will be along to advise you. :)
  • ronboronbo Connecticut
    edited August 2005
    Think this is to much overkill profdlp?
    [IMG][/img]casewithlotoffans9ij.jpg
  • botheredbothered Manchester UK
    edited August 2005
    I thought this thread was about Whales?
  • NosferatuNosferatu Arizona
    edited August 2005
    What!?! You mean to tell me there are no whales here??! I'm leaving!!!
  • botheredbothered Manchester UK
    edited August 2005
    Not a one mate, I've read all the posts and there's no mention of whales, it's all about fans! I think they did it on Porpoise.
  • jradminjradmin North Kackalaki
    edited August 2005
    I have 3 fans in my case: 1 120mm at the front sucking in, 1 120mm at the back blowing out, and one 80mm down low blowing in at the GPU. Personally I wish I had more fans or water cooling, but as far as layout goes its pretty good airflow. Cold air in the bottem and hot air out the top.
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