Dual SMP for Quad CPU - Guide

scottscott Medina, Ohio Icrontian
edited November 2007 in Folding@Home
Hey Ultra

Ya we are lucky aren't we ! Quad goodness.

I just went through trying to run two instances. You can see the disscusion here. http://forum.folding-community.org/ftopic20950.html

I am not running the machine dedicated , it is also a gamer. ( just waiting for Crysis ) So I did not want to run VMware. With Vista and one service and one console my PPD were actualy a couple hundred PPD less than running a single client. And it was a major PIA to get going. So I am back to a single client for now. Still 3000PPD on a 2610 and 2875PPD on the 2653's so I am happy :)

What kind of point increase are you getting with VMware over a single client ?


Scott
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Comments

  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited September 2007
    Great guide, Ultra Nexus!
  • Ultra-NexusUltra-Nexus Buenos Aires, ARG
    edited September 2007
    scott wrote:
    What kind of point increase are you getting with VMware over a single client ?

    Right now the VMs are doing between 12:30 to 13:20 minutes per frame on the p2653, thats like 4050 to 3800PPD for both combined.

    Seems the WU does not access RAM much, and work most of the time in the CPU´s L2, that would explain why my TPF is similar to two individual E6600. :)
  • scottscott Medina, Ohio Icrontian
    edited September 2007
    Ultra Nexus wrote:
    Right now the VMs are doing between 12:30 to 13:20 minutes per frame on the p2653, thats like 4050 to 3800PPD for both combined.

    Seems the WU does not access RAM much, and work most of the time in the CPU´s L2, that would explain why my TPF is similar to two individual E6600. :)



    Hmmmm

    I may have to give it a go.....I know what I'm doing this weekend !

    Thanks Ultra !


    Scott
  • QCHQCH Ancient Guru Chicago Area - USA Icrontian
    edited September 2007
    HOLY COW... Nice write up!!!! :thumbsup:
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited September 2007
    I edited the article and published it on our main page. Take a gander, it's a great read!

    PS: Congrats UltraNexus on your first published Icrontic article! :)
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited September 2007
    Good stuff, Mr. U!
  • QeldromaQeldroma Arid ZoneAh Member
    edited September 2007
    Good job, Nex. I think you may even have enough here to hack out some workable variations. Thank you, Senor! :thumbsup:
  • Ultra-NexusUltra-Nexus Buenos Aires, ARG
    edited September 2007
    I am really glad you all liked it. :)
    I would never thought it would turn to be an Icrontic article!!

    Now lets fold gentlemen (and ladies)!!! :smokin:

    EDIT: I just received my 2nd Quad from Ebay! :rockon:
  • QCHQCH Ancient Guru Chicago Area - USA Icrontian
    edited September 2007
    Watch out everyone... Ultra Nexus is gonna be flying past a bunch of people REAL fast!!!
    :smokin:
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited September 2007
    Is 2003 server required to run VMware?

    Hmm if each guest is going to use nearly 800mb of RAM I wont have much left with 2gb total to game or do much of anything else.
  • Ultra-NexusUltra-Nexus Buenos Aires, ARG
    edited September 2007
    No, you can use Windows XP as well, as long as it detects all 4 cores.

    Remember that this guide is for dedicated rigs, on your main rig (where you work, game, etc) its better to just use one SMP client.

    I´ll be experimenting more with the setup, and see if I can lower the RAM requirements without taking too much of a hit on performance.
  • deicistdeicist Manchester, UK
    edited September 2007
    Could you not use imagecfg available here to set the affinity for the .exe that spawns the core processes? ie: set the original executable to only use core 0 + 1, start it and it should only spawn 2 processes. Maybe. Not tried it but it seems like it should work :D
  • Ultra-NexusUltra-Nexus Buenos Aires, ARG
    edited September 2007
    Unfortunatelly running two SMP clients together at the same time (which would create 8 fah_core instances) tend to EUE each other when you Control-C one of them.

    In theory, if you set 2 of each to each logical core, would work, but since you dont know which fa_core instance is from what SMP client, you could be mixing them up, and actually degrading overall processing.

    Try it out if you´d like and post back your results if different than my theory! :)
  • deicistdeicist Manchester, UK
    edited September 2007
    unfortunately I don't have a quad core to test it on. That tool lets you set affinity on a .exe before you run it. so... set the affinity on one copy of the SMP client to 2 cores, run it, and in theory it should spawn 2 copies of the core process.
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited September 2007
    Its still best to separate the 2 clients by some sort of OS or user account.
  • deicistdeicist Manchester, UK
    edited September 2007
    mmonnin wrote:
    Its still best to separate the 2 clients by some sort of OS or user account.

    Um...why? The standard (non-smp) client runs fine with multiple instances on the same OS as long as you keep the work directory seperate etc. Is there a specific issue with running more than one instance of the SMP client? (other than the 'spawning 4 processes' issue)
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited September 2007
    Ultra Nexus wrote:
    Unfortunatelly running two SMP clients together at the same time (which would create 8 fah_core instances) tend to EUE each other when you Control-C one of them.

    SMP client is a whole different monster. Any previous client could be run from a pen drive, moved to any computer on any NT Windows OS and have no problems at all.
  • Ultra-NexusUltra-Nexus Buenos Aires, ARG
    edited September 2007
    Here is a pair of screenshots from the VM#1 running on core 1 and 2, on a p2653 WU
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited September 2007
    Ahh, pretty pictures! Makes me happy!
  • Ultra-NexusUltra-Nexus Buenos Aires, ARG
    edited September 2007
    We´ll set your future quads up right when you get them. ;)
  • scottscott Medina, Ohio Icrontian
    edited September 2007
    Here is another method that works.
    I chose this method because I know nothing about linux or VM. And this is not a dedicated machine, with both instances running on Vista I still have a little over a gig of free memory. ( Out of 2 )

    deicist wrote:
    Could you not use imagecfg available here to set the affinity for the .exe that spawns the core processes? ie: set the original executable to only use core 0 + 1, start it and it should only spawn 2 processes. Maybe. Not tried it but it seems like it should work :D


    As noted the original .exe is not what uses the processor time, so setting the affinity on the executable does not work.
    So what I did to get around this was
    Set up 2 work directories.
    Set one as a service and run the other as the console. The only way I had any luck starting was to start the console first and then the service. ( From the service manager )
    Be sure to set a dfferent Machine ID for each client.
    Start the console client.
    Open Task Manager / Process tab and set the affinity on the exe. and the four spawned instances of the core to 0 and 1
    Start the service.
    Back to the task manager and check both exe.'s and all 8 cores and change the ones that are using all four cores to 3 and 4.
    Viola'


    To stop the console use Ctrl+ C and use the service manager to stop the service. ( I always copy my work folder, Que.dat and unitinfo to another folder before stopping. Just to be safe )

    I tried this same method without assigning affinity and went from 2850PPD down to about 2650PPD. With the affinity properly assigned it went up to 3150PPD on Project 2653 avg. frame times went from 8:52 ( one client ) to 16:18 ea. for 2 clients.

    It may not be quite as efficent as using a virtual machine , but for me it was much easier. Just thought I would share some options.



    Scott :fold::fold::fold:
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited September 2007
    Scott, thanks. That's probably the route I'll take when I eventually start upgrading machines to quad. I am just not interested in Linux at this time. I'm sure it would be fun and rewarding. I just don't have time for another hobby.
  • scottscott Medina, Ohio Icrontian
    edited September 2007
    Leonardo wrote:
    I am just not interested in Linux at this time. I'm sure it would be fun and rewarding. I just don't have time for another hobby.

    My thinking exactly.

    Scott
  • Ultra-NexusUltra-Nexus Buenos Aires, ARG
    edited September 2007
    You can try installing Windows guests instead of Linux x64 and see how they compare.

    I will try to build a small downloadable Linux 64 ISO prepared for F@H for this porpuse, for those not interested in getting into Linux much (or at all). :D
  • scottscott Medina, Ohio Icrontian
    edited September 2007
    Hey Ultra

    I did a quick search on " Windows Guest" and I am equally as confused as before. :confused:


    Maybe the "virtual" world is just outside of my grasp. Or maybe I am just stupid.:banghead:


    Scott
  • Ultra-NexusUltra-Nexus Buenos Aires, ARG
    edited September 2007
    Trust me, is easier than you think... I´ve sent you a PM.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited September 2007
    Maybe the "virtual" world is just outside of my grasp. Or maybe I am just stupid.:banghead:
    Not actually stupid, just virtually.



    Ooo, I just indicted myself as well.
  • scottscott Medina, Ohio Icrontian
    edited September 2007
    Update......Glitch with my method.

    It seems that after a WU finishes the four cores it was using close and four new ones are spawned. The new cores use all four processors and need there affinity reset. :mad: Makes for a lot of babysitting.

    It looks like I may have to figure out this VM stuff afterall.


    Scott
  • scottscott Medina, Ohio Icrontian
    edited September 2007
    Leonardo wrote:
    Not actually stupid, just virtually.

    I don't know Leo , I just got a PM from Ultra offering to help me out. And wants me to use some other technology I have never tried....I think it is some sort of IM. :o

    Hey Ultra

    I will get my kid to help me set it up and let you know when I have joined this Century.



    Scott
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited November 2007
    Any free versions of VMware?

    And is the Linux version faster than a windows SMP client?

    Edit: NM I see you can use anything.

    Started up an XP version of it, it showed my Abit boot manager, says 'booting from local disk', I clicked once and it locked up my system twice. Its not going so hot so far.
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