phenom II 545 overclock/unlock

edited April 2010 in Hardware
I have been itching to play with Phenoms but was not able to justify the expense ... until now. I could not resist the ASUS M4A77D + Phenom II X2 545 combo for $145 (plus $10 MIR). This will be replacing a C2D-4500 (3GHz) system and I will recycle 4GB DDR2-800 RAM, thus AM2+ MB. I think it will be faster than the C2D4500 but if I can unlock to X4, it will be the jackpot. The cooler will be an old TT Big Typhoon for now. Let's see the initial overclock and unlock. If this puppy proves worthy, it might wear a new shiny Cogage True Sprit. I will post the results here, let me know if you have any suggestions.
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Comments

  • jedihobbitjedihobbit Central Virginia, USA New
    edited February 2010
    While I never had any luck unlocking the 4th core in two different 720BEs it'll be interesting to see how you do!! Looks like a fun set up so I'll be watching!! Didn't think I'd get anything new myself until the 'egg snagged me on a cyber Monday combo! ;D
  • edited February 2010
    Not even one core unlocked without instability :rolleyes:

    Overclock is at 3.75GHz right now. I think there is hope for 4GHz since there is no heating problem and vcore is at 1.375v. I think I can go upto 1.45v.
  • edited February 2010
    I had to increase vcore past 1.5v to run the Phenom II at 4GHz. So I dialed back to 3.75GHz at 1.375v. I did a set of benchmarks to compare the performance with 2 other Intel dual-core computers. All of them are overclocked since I don't run anything at stock. :bigggrin: The results are shown below for the following three systems:
    System 1: Intel E4500@3.0GHz, 273 FSB, 4GB DDR2-546, Nvidia 9600GT
    System 2: Intel E5200@3.5GHz, 280 FSB, 4GB DDR2-560, ATI HD4850
    System 3: AMD PII-545@3.75GHz, 250 FSB, 4GB DDR2-833, Nvidia 9600GT

    Speedfan and CPU-Z show too much fluctuation of vcore on this ASUS M4A77D motherboard; vcore is going up and down between 1.325 and 1.4 under load during stability testing. I checked the Load Line Calibration option and enabling it did not improve anything. Actually I had to disable for overclock stability. I am not sure if the vcore fluctuation is due to the motherboard or PSU. Any suggestions?
  • jedihobbitjedihobbit Central Virginia, USA New
    edited February 2010
    mirage wrote:
    .......Speedfan and CPU-Z show too much fluctuation of vcore on this ASUS M4A77D motherboard; vcore is going up and down between 1.325 and 1.4 under load during stability testing..........

    .........I am not sure if the vcore fluctuation is due to the motherboard or PSU. Any suggestions?

    Noticed that on most if not all of my systems (all AMD) some just do it more than others. Have an Abit NF-M2 nView that I love but under load it is almost like it'll jump up to the next value that is selected in bios. Know that isn't an answer, but an observation. :(
  • edited February 2010
    I have a spare Antec EA650. I doubt it will help with vcore fluctuations, but I might try that PSU as a replacement for Antec SP-500 currently in the computer. I don't have the motivation now after the unlocking disappointment. :grumble:

    Anyway, 545 is running at 3.75GHz completely stable and cool right now. And 4 GHz seems like too much strain on the CPU and motherboard. Load temperatures running IntelBurntest are unbelievably low with a TT Big Typhoon; max 40C !!! I checked the core temperature with Coretemp and Speedfan and I still think this is too low to be true.
  • jedihobbitjedihobbit Central Virginia, USA New
    edited February 2010
    For S & Gs have you tried HWMon just to see what it says??
  • edited February 2010
    jedihobbit wrote:
    For S & Gs have you tried HWMon just to see what it says??

    Good idea! I will try HWMonitor too.


    Edit:
    I tried now and the temperatures are the same with HWMonitor. Motherboard has a CPU temperature reading too besides the K10 CPU diode. The temperature reading of the motherboard is following K10 CPU diode with 1-2C offset. I am not sure if the motherboard reading is based on the CPU diode or an independent diode on the socket. I am feeling uneasy overclocking a CPU while reading <40C core temperatures under load.
  • jedihobbitjedihobbit Central Virginia, USA New
    edited February 2010
    THe only other suggestion (and that'll be even less accurate) would be to find an stand alone temp gage and "stuff" the prob as close as possible to the proc. :confused2
  • edited February 2010
    I finally had the time to get back to this CPU. And finally success! :buck:

    I did the followings all at once since I did not have much time to try step by step.
    - upgraded the BIOS to the latest one
    - replaced the crappy Antec SP500 PSU with Antec EA650
    - reseated the heatsink. I had to do this anyway to remove the PSU
    - reduced overclocking to 3.5 GHz

    Now the CPU is unlocking all cores and running stable at 3.5 GHz. If i had a better cooler I think it would overclock to 3.75. Maybe later, I have to leave it at 3.5 for now.

    By the way, unlocking disables core temperature sensor and I don't have the previous problem anymore. :)
  • jedihobbitjedihobbit Central Virginia, USA New
    edited February 2010
    :rockon: Way to go dude!! :thumbup
  • edited February 2010
    jedihobbit wrote:
    :rockon: Way to go dude!! :thumbup

    Thanks Jedi. I have increased FSB to 240, decreased the HT and RAM multipliers one step down without changing vcore. I am now at 3.6 GHz stable after 12 cycles of Burntest. RAM speed is at DDR2-800 and HT at 1920 MHz. It looks like this is the perfect spot to stop and get some sleep now. :zombie:
  • jedihobbitjedihobbit Central Virginia, USA New
    edited February 2010
    I'll go along with that........as my 945 was happier with lower HT and RAM multies. 3.6 is nothing to sneeze at, that's for sure! And then throw in the fact you're X4 not X2 makes for an even more impressive overclock. :clap: :wow2: :thumbsup:

    Yeah don't push it if you're getting tired as I ruined meaning an oc from being tired and going :doh:
  • edited February 2010
    I think 3.6 GHz is the optimal overclocking I can do with this Phenom II 545. It can certainly go higher with a better cooler than TT Big Typhoon and a lot more volts but buying a $60 cooler for a $85 processor to go 200MHz higher does not make sense to me. It has been a lot of fun for very little money. This thing beats my overclocked Q6600 system after unlocking for just $145 including the motherboard. Way to go AMD, ASUS, me too! :vimp:
  • jedihobbitjedihobbit Central Virginia, USA New
    edited February 2010
    WOW, an overclocker that uses logic!! ;D Those are valid points that I've sometimes have failed to realize....to the point of "breaking" things just to get the "wee bit more".:o :sad2: :wink:

    Think you've done a great job and now time to "enjoy" it. :thumbup
  • edited February 2010
    AMD cpu prices are spread in a very narrow range nowadays. For the price of a good cooler, one can almost upgrade the entry level cpu to the highest end instead of overclocking. I think it makes sense to spend money on cooling equipment after that point. However, I had missed overclocking a non-Intel system since my last Opteron 165 and I already had half-decent spare coolers. I want to unlock another one already. But since this is not guaranteed, I will just take my good luck with this one and, as you said, enjoy. Got lucky this time.

    Jedi, thank you very much for your company.
  • jedihobbitjedihobbit Central Virginia, USA New
    edited February 2010
    mirage wrote:
    Jedi, thank you very much for your company.

    That's more than mutual and look forward to your input when I get off my duff and do some more overclocking! :rockon:
  • edited February 2010
    The motherboard specs state that it can handle 2600 HT. I have tried to increase the HT speed to 2400 from 1920. Although the system boots and seems to work fine, IntelBurn Test reports instability after ~5 minutes. Is there any recommended remedy? such as increasing one of the voltages. I am just not willing to increase vcore further than 1.375 since it reaches beyond 1.4 while fluctuating under load.
  • Cliff_ForsterCliff_Forster Icrontian
    edited February 2010
    mirage wrote:
    The motherboard specs state that it can handle 2600 HT. I have tried to increase the HT speed to 2400 from 1920. Although the system boots and seems to work fine, IntelBurn Test reports instability after ~5 minutes. Is there any recommended remedy? such as increasing one of the voltages. I am just not willing to increase vcore further than 1.375 since it reaches beyond 1.4 while fluctuating under load.

    Why, do you need more than 40 GB/s of bidirectional bandwidth? (I think maxing PCIE 2.0 bandwidth is 16 GB/s, and thats not even saturated)

    Once upon a time tweaking your bus got you improved IO performance, these days, its minimal, or any at all, all your doing is heating up your motherboard. Thats why unlocked chips are so prevalent in the AMD camp. AMD got rid of the ugly FSB limitations years ago with Hyper-Transport. Your IO bandwidth is plenty at 1.8 or 2.0, whatever the default is, your system is going to bottleneck it other places, USB 2.0, your spinning drive, even a good SSD will likely be the limit, your optical drive obviously, your RAM, everything. Hyper-transport 3.0 in any flavor is never your bottleneck.

    Enjoy your nice overclock
  • edited February 2010
    Thanks for the insight, Cliff. You are right. I was able to run two benchmarks (as much as the stability of 2400 MHz HT allowed) to compare with 1920 MHz HT. The performance difference between the two for Linpack test is just 2%. I am sure less demanding tasks will have no difference. So, I dialed back to 1920 MHz HT and will let it run at that speed.
  • RyderRyder Kalamazoo, Mi Icrontian
    edited February 2010
    mirage wrote:
    Thanks for the insight, Cliff. You are right. I was able to run two benchmarks (as much as the stability of 2400 MHz HT allowed) to compare with 1920 MHz HT. The performance difference between the two for Linpack test is just 2%. I am sure less demanding tasks will have no difference. So, I dialed back to 1920 MHz HT and will let it run at that speed.
    The real performance gains with AMD come from overclocking the NB on the CPU. Make sure that is at 2400 - 2600 (some CPU's depending on revision won't hit 2600).
  • edited February 2010
    I didn't know that. Is it okay to run NB faster than HT? I did not set any speed for NB; it is still at Auto in BIOS. Can you recommend a tool to read the NB speed?
  • RyderRyder Kalamazoo, Mi Icrontian
    edited February 2010
    mirage wrote:
    I didn't know that. Is it okay to run NB faster than HT? I did not set any speed for NB; it is still at Auto in BIOS. Can you recommend a tool to read the NB speed?
    NB speed is displayed on the memory tab of CPU-z, upper right.

    Yes, NB can be run faster than HT.

    These 2 articles use DDR3 CPU's however the principles apply to DDR2 as well.

    http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?63271-AMD-Phenom-II-mild-overclock-wild-performance

    http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?56715-AMD-AM3-CPU-s-which-ram-speed-is-faster-and-which-CPU-NB-clock-is-best

    Especially Tony's article about ram timings/speed compared to NB speed.
  • edited February 2010
    Great! I will try to raise it tonight.
  • Cliff_ForsterCliff_Forster Icrontian
    edited February 2010
    mirage wrote:
    Great! I will try to raise it tonight.

    Keep in mind just about all OEM NB chip coolers, are Meh at best. I mean, the one on your Asus board looks like it might be okay as passive NB heatsinks go, but once you start pushing the NB you might want to consider some after market cooling for your NB chip. I recently had a board fail, I think due to a NB that was not cooled sufficently, and keep in mind, I was not even over clocking it. If not a new sink, get some air flow on that thing and monitor your temps.
  • RyderRyder Kalamazoo, Mi Icrontian
    edited February 2010
    Keep in mind just about all OEM NB chip coolers, are Meh at best. I mean, the one on your Asus board looks like it might be okay as passive NB heatsinks go, but once you start pushing the NB you might want to consider some after market cooling for your NB chip. I recently had a board fail, I think due to a NB that was not cooled sufficently, and keep in mind, I was not even over clocking it. If not a new sink, get some air flow on that thing and monitor your temps.
    Cliff, we are not overclocking the "NB Chipset" on the motherboard, we are overclocking the Memory controller on the CPU, which is really the "Northbridge" the way we used to think of things when the Mem controller was not on the CPU ;)
  • Cliff_ForsterCliff_Forster Icrontian
    edited February 2010
    RyderOCZ wrote:
    Cliff, we are not overclocking the "NB Chipset" on the motherboard, we are overclocking the Memory controller on the CPU, which is really the "Northbridge" the way we used to think of things when the Mem controller was not on the CPU ;)

    But doesn't the rise in frequency still effect the NB chip heat output? I know I see a voltage adjustment for that in my BIOS.
  • RyderRyder Kalamazoo, Mi Icrontian
    edited February 2010
    But doesn't the rise in frequency still effect the NB chip heat output? I know I see a voltage adjustment for that in my BIOS.
    No, overclocking the NB on the CPU should not change the chipset heat output.

    Yes, some boards have 2 NB voltages, one for the CPU and one for the chipset. No need to adjust the Chipset NB voltage, we are not changing its speed.
    You want to change the CPU-NB voltage, may be called CPU-NB VID, not the NB Voltage or Chipset voltage.

    Again, you are not raising the frequency of the chipset.
  • Cliff_ForsterCliff_Forster Icrontian
    edited February 2010
    RyderOCZ wrote:
    No, overclocking the NB on the CPU should not change the chipset heat output.

    Yes, some boards have 2 NB voltages, one for the CPU and one for the chipset. No need to adjust the Chipset NB voltage, we are not changing its speed.
    You want to change the CPU-NB voltage, may be called CPU-NB VID, not the NB Voltage or Chipset voltage.

    Again, you are not raising the frequency of the chipset.

    See, I did not know that, so there are two independent voltage regulators on the CPU?
  • RyderRyder Kalamazoo, Mi Icrontian
    edited February 2010
    See, I did not know that, so there are two independent voltage regulators on the CPU?
    Yes, you control the core voltage and you can control the Memory Controller voltage.
  • edited February 2010
    Ryder, do you know a safe upper limit for CPU-NB voltage?
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