The RTS for Dummies thread...

Cliff_Forster

Okay, here is the deal. I'm a life long PC gamer, but for some reason I have always had some strange aversion to RTS games. I don't know why, on the surface they look like allot of fun, but for some reason I just never seem to get more than a couple hours into one without throwing up my hands in frustration.

So you see there is this new title, Starcraft II, and frankly, it looks pretty bad ass, I kind of want to play it, but, I'm an RTS Dummy, I just don't get the genre, and have never been much good at it.

Ive tried games from Force Commander, to Age of Mythology, to the Red Alert 3 demo... and universally it get an hour or two into them and just get frustrated with them.

So Icrontic, can anyone offer this RTS Dummy any hope? If you were me, knowing what you know, where would be the best place to start? What would be a good game? Is there a great forum, resource, video, book, whatever for a guy to really get his feet wet in the genre? I want to open my mind to it and give it a fair shake.

primesuspect

I was the same exact way until I realized that the speed you make your actions at is the thing I was missing.

I kept wanted to strategize and plan and take it slow; that's what got me every time. When it "clicked" that things were happening whether I was doing anything or not, it was like a light went off.

I forgot the "RT" part of "RTS"

Colgere

As far as a good game to start with, I recommend Starcraft (the original). Yes, it's 12 years old. Yes, the graphics aren't the latest and greatest. But there's a reason it's often considered the greatest RTS game ever. It's extremely well balanced, with a compelling single player campaign storyline. Also, if you're wanting to play Starcraft 2, it will give you a good feel for what each of the three races offer in terms of strategy.

One thing I recommend is that you don't jump into multiplayer for awhile, as that can be very frustrating. Once you've completed all of the single player missions (in both SC and SC2), then you should be ok to try multiplayer (you'll still probably get beat up, but it won't seem as bad ).

As an added bonus, it's still very easy to find, I know Best Buy sells the Starcraft Battlechest for $19.99 and has it in stock. I also believe Newegg has it in stock for the same price with free shipping.

Dark_Radeon

In conjunction with the above posters, as their feedback contains valid points:

1.) Pre-plan your build order(s). I know this goes along with speed, but knowing what each unit is capable of, how to optimally obtain the army mixture you are aiming for, and how to counter your opponent are all very important, usually most important, in the early game. If you are not using hotkeys and minimizing downtime between units, then you will most likely lose a multiplayer game against anyone with these skills.

2.) Starcraft 2, since it was mentioned, has a "Challenges" feature. If you can legitimately get a gold rating on all of the challenges (usually "and then some"), you should be ready for bronze/silver level of multiplayer competition. 2 of the last 3 challenges in particular offer actual in-game situations that may happen (tailored in your favor a bit). These aren't specific to just Starcraft 2, as they offer solid strategic advice and examples for a lot of RTS games that you might encounter.

3.) Learn ALL the races. You can't always be expected to be good with all of them, but knowledge is power. The more you know about the intricacies of each unit, the better you will be able to adapt and counter when an opponent attacks you (or you scout them and see their forces).

4.) Scouting. Along the same principle as above, but you should be doing this at least every 2 minutes to keep your information as up-to-date as possible. Build unit counters to your opponent, don't just blindly mass a unit type and smash armies together. That's how most people lose.

5.) Hotkeys. Learn them, use them as often as needed to optimize your orders. If you are spending too much time moving the mouse across the screen, you should be using hotkeys. Generally, if you are targetting, use the mouse. If you are using an ability, building something, or selecting a hotkeyed group, use hotkeys.

6.) When it all boils down, you are left with how fast and cunning you are against your opponent. Speed is everything in Starcraft 2. Now, there are other RTS games that offer a slower-pace and other features, but speed is still important in those games as well. Use everything you know, don't hold back. Just because it looks like you are winning at one point doesn't mean you didn't miss scouting an expansion with 50 mutalisks sitting at it or a lifted off command center on an island.

If you require Starcraft-specific assistance, you can find me in game via character code 364 (by the name of Radeon).

GnomeWizardd

Hotkeys is a time saver, learn them, And if it is your First RTS play the campaign first, Learn the units and then do multi player vs the PC. Also in multi, Use a race you understand the best, SCI I was great at Zerg, Now I blow with them. So I had to relearn Protoss and I can hold my own now. Its nuts how good people are on battle.net

Cliff_Forster

Over using the mouse has likely been a problem for me. These games have so many command and control sets, its likely I just need to force myself to stick with one long enough to get into a groove.

I really want the Starcraft II experience, it looks like a hell of a game, I just need to get my feet wet elsewhere. Maybe I will get a copy of the old game and get through the single player on that first.

CB

For me, the genre is just too much work to get good at. I usually play through the single-player campaign successfully, but then when I get into the multi-player content I just try to have fun losing.

I think a big part of it for me is that I really only have fun playing multi-player games with my friends, so while my friends play with strangers, and learn new things, I don't.

Butters

I was a big WC2/WC3 player. Never played SC1 other than the demo. The thing about multi-player RTS, is that you can't hide. That is, your skill level is exposed by the way you play. Your speed in building, how fast you tech, level up, produce units, etc is out there for your team mates to judge you. Even in 8v8 matches. Also, its not like a FPS where 1 player has the potential to take out an entire team, its the complete opposite a whole team has to eliminate 1 player.

At least thats my perspective on RTS in general. I'm going to wait for a Demo, before I decide on this game. Unless its "must play", GOTY.

pigflipper

Butters wrote:

At least thats my perspective on RTS in general. I'm going to wait for a Demo, before I decide on this game. Unless its "must play", GOTY.

It is a MUST play.

GnomeWizardd

Piggy is right It is a must play

Jingalls

Butters, if you know anyone who has the game they can give you a key worth 7 hours of play time, which is sort of a demo.

GnomeWizardd

I would but i gave me 2 out

pigflipper

hit me up if you want the key

ardichoke

If you want to get into RTS games, in my opinion anyway, the best place to start is the Command and Conquer series. That's what got me hooked on them. Plus you can download the first 3 titles for free.

http://commandandconquer.com/classic/

Butters

I'll take everyone's word on this game, I'll just get it. Save a key for Cliff.

highchronicles

An alternative to starcraft for multiple races that have varied abilities and strategy is Dawn of war 1 (not 2, that is a whole different level of RTS)

All of the races play differently and require different strategy, simple things such as having specific units attacking as melee or ranged can have all the difference in a big battle. For example using Tau (my favorite) they are almost exclusively ranged but countering them with heavy melee units that can withstand getting into range can be fun and challenging.

Dark_Radeon

highchronicles wrote:

An alternative to starcraft for multiple races that have varied abilities and strategy is Dawn of war 1 (not 2, that is a whole different level of RTS)

All of the races play differently and require different strategy, simple things such as having specific units attacking as melee or ranged can have all the difference in a big battle. For example using Tau (my favorite) they are almost exclusively ranged but countering them with heavy melee units that can withstand getting into range can be fun and challenging.

Chaos and Space marines are relatively similar, primarily in the early game.

The down side is that Dawn of War 1 has heroes. Any time a hero steps on the field in an RTS, the balance of power shifts dramatically. They aren't as ultra-powered as Warcraft 3, but the 'hero' unit type just makes power so unbalanced.

patrickcabenjamin

A lot of RTSs have pause buttons. Use them to give multiple orders at a time.

Koreish

uh wut?

ardichoke

kinda defeats the purpose of it being a REAL time strategy game. Also, doesn't work for multiplayer (herpaderp)

Jingalls

Yup. Works great in D&D style games like Icewind Dale, KotOR, or Dragon Age though.

primesuspect

Which are not at all RTS games and not at all what this thread is about....

shwaip

Duh, the S is short for "RPG". An the RT part is short for "not-RT".

Jingalls

That's kind of the point though, isn't it? Pausing has just as much place in this thread as those other games do.

Cyclonite

This is a *real time* strategy thread. Pausing kind of defeats the real time portion.

ardichoke

which is exactly what I said a couple posts back o_O