Here's the problem with cloud computing

TimTim Southwest PA Icrontian
edited September 2012 in Internet & Media
I was just watching an ad for a Kindle Fire, and this reminded me of something.

Everyone talks about cloud computing like it is the next best thing. And it may be, up to a point. Here's what you need to ask yourself -- what if the cloud isn't there one day?

It could be any number of things. A simple hardware failure, a Terminator movie type virus, or terrorists.

We get so used to having things a certain way, and it becomes a real problem to lose it. Jeff Foxworthy once talked about watching tv when he was young and having 3 channels, and if the president was on, his night was shot.

Someday, the big internet and internet cloud is going to have a problem. It may last only a day or 2 or shut it down forever. And it's going to be a disaster.

So many will rely on the cloud to handle their stuff and then they will lose it all.

So take the time to download and save things and don't assume the cloud will always be there.
BuddyJ
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Comments

  • GnomeQueenGnomeQueen The Lulz Queen Mountain Dew Mouth Icrontian
    You could make this argument easily about all digital content. Backing up things is of course a great idea, but it's not like "big internet" hasn't considered that shit could happen. This is not a new idea.

    Really, if you want guarantees, you should print things out on archival approved paper and store it in a temperature/humidity controlled dark place.

    Coincidentally, I'm currently doing reading about preservation and disaster planning for archives.
    WagsFTW
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    The cloud is backup, not a replacement.
  • WinfreyWinfrey waddafuh Missouri Icrontian
    Yeah but then what do you do if there's a fire!?! THE SHIT IS FUCKED MAN!
  • shwaipshwaip bluffin' with my muffin Icrontian
    Tim said:

    I was just watching an ad for a Kindle Fire, and this reminded me of something.

    Everyone talks about [a hard drive] like it is the next best thing. And it may be, up to a point. Here's what you need to ask yourself -- what if the [hard drive] isn't there one day?

    It could be any number of things. A simple hardware failure, a Terminator movie type virus, or terrorists.

    We get so used to having things a certain way, and it becomes a real problem to lose it. Jeff Foxworthy once talked about watching tv when he was young and having 3 channels, and if the president was on, his night was shot.

    Someday, the big [PC] and [hard drive] is going to have a problem. It may last only a day or 2 or shut it down vorever. And it's going to be a disaster.

    So many will rely on the [hard drive] to handle their stuff and then they will lose it all.

    So take the time to [backup] and save things and don't assume the [hard drive] will always be there.

    BuddyJGargZuntar
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    Thrax said:

    The cloud is backup, not a replacement.

    Not really. Gmail isn't local. With Steam, it could be argued that the opposite is true: you still can't play offline if the internet suddenly kicks it and you haven't "gone offline" first. This exact problem caused a shitstorm during Expo 2012's TF2 tournament. It killed the tournament.

    Increasingly, the Cloud is becoming "the replacement".

    Tim has some actual valid discussion points, if you can look past the whole Tim thing.
    Cliff_ForsterZuntar
  • CBCB Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Der Millionendorf- Icrontian
    edited September 2012
    Thrax said:

    The cloud is backup, not a replacement.

    I can see the day when this is not true. The enthusiast might always want their own system, but the typical home user could even today survive on just a dumb terminal connected to the cloud. Someday, methinks, this will be the de facto.

  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Geeky, in my own way Naples, FL Icrontian
    CB said:


    I can see the day when this is not true. The enthusiast might always want their own system, but the typical home user could even today survive on just a dumb terminal connected to the cloud. Someday, methinks, this will be the de facto.

    I think you have the right idea, CB. I backup stuff rather than cloud it, except for my website which is backed up three ways on different locations.


  • Not really. Gmail isn't local.

    Not by default, but if you're smart you're backing your Gmail up somewhere else. It may be unlikely, but people have had their accounts nuked by Google before, and probably will again. Backups backups backups.
  • KwitkoKwitko Sheriff of Banning (Retired) By the thing near the stuff Icrontian

    Tim has some actual valid discussion points, if you can look past the whole Tim thing.

    Never forget 9/4/12 - The day Tim gained respect.

    BuddyJ
  • RWBRWB Icrontian
    As someone who recently lost 2TB of data I wish I had more internet bandwidth and storage for backing up, and hopefully on a solution that doesn't snoop into your account to make money from marketing by seeing what kind of stuff you keep. Offsite backup is great and a necessity when you have lots of it, but we hit the roadblock imposed on us by our crappy ISP's limiting the amounts of bandwidth, though I hope this will change soon as at least 2 major providers are working towards gigabit internet.

    I don't know if this counts as "cloud computing" but while I use Dropbox and other online services I prefer my own services hosted from my own system like FTP and Web Servers to Media Streaming. Products like Qloud for watching movies on the go and Splashtop for remote access with audio support are great and hope to see more like them as well as more development.
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Alexandria, VA Icrontian
    Kwitko said:

    Tim has some actual valid discussion points, if you can look past the whole Tim thing.

    Never forget 9/4/12 - The day Tim gained respect.

    There's only one way up when the enemy gate is down

    ... I've been reading the Ender's Game series, but I'll see myself out.
    pragtastic
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited September 2012
    never mind
  • MAGICMAGIC Doot Doot Furniture City, Michigan Icrontian
    edited September 2012
    I actually started using Google Drive for my primary storage. I am not a digital hoarder so, I've never had a need for terabytes of storage. I've never really had an issue with connectivity. You have to evaluate your needs/capabilities to see if you can move everything to the heavens.
  • mertesnmertesn I am Bobby Miller Yukon, OK Icrontian
    MAGIC said:

    I actually started using Google Drive for my primary storage. I am not a digital hoarder so, I've never had a need for terabytes of storage. I've never really had an issue with connectivity. You have to evaluate your needs/capabilities to see if you can move everything to the heavens.

    I've been using DropBox to sync the files I need backed up offsite, but I may have to give Google Drive a try as well.

    I have one system at home with a ~14TB in RAID arrays that holds all the things that can't be backed up online (due to size) or would generally be a PITA to do offsite backups. It has minimal cabling, so in the event of a GTFO emergency I can grab that if time permits.
    Zuntar
  • Cliff_ForsterCliff_Forster Icrontian
    edited September 2012
    Damn cloud always getting in the way!


    image
    UPSLynxIlriyasardichoke
  • AlexDeGruvenAlexDeGruven Wut? Meechigan Icrontian
    What cloud?
  • fatcatfatcat Mizzou Icrontian
    i suddenly want cotton candy
  • shwaipshwaip bluffin' with my muffin Icrontian
  • JBoogalooJBoogaloo This too shall pass... Alexandria, VA Icrontian
    Tim said:

    I was just watching an ad for a Kindle Fire, and this reminded me of something.

    Everyone talks about cloud computing like it is the next best thing. And it may be, up to a point. Here's what you need to ask yourself -- what if the cloud isn't there one day?

    It could be any number of things. A simple hardware failure, a Terminator movie type virus, or terrorists.

    We get so used to having things a certain way, and it becomes a real problem to lose it. Jeff Foxworthy once talked about watching tv when he was young and having 3 channels, and if the president was on, his night was shot.

    Someday, the big internet and internet cloud is going to have a problem. It may last only a day or 2 or shut it down vorever. And it's going to be a disaster.

    So many will rely on the cloud to handle their stuff and then they will lose it all.

    So take the time to download and save things and don't assume the cloud will always be there.

    Welcome to a small portion of what I do for a living :) seriously.

    It's good to know that something like this has at least crossed one person's mind out there (too bad many others don't think this way more often).
  • KwitkoKwitko Sheriff of Banning (Retired) By the thing near the stuff Icrontian
    It's crossed our minds. We have physical and cloud backups. The problem with the physical, disk-based backups is that they don't leave the building, so if there's a fire, so long backups. On the other hand, the odds are pretty slim that both the cloud and the physical backups will disappear at the same time. If that happens, I think there are more pressing problems, like the end of the world.
  • TimTim Southwest PA Icrontian
    I cannot imagine how many businesses and people out there rely on cloud based computing for their needs, but just in my own little internet world:

    World of Warcraft and TF2 - REQUIRE internet access to play.
    Starcraft 2 - online multiplayer requires internet, but at least I can play the campaign or A.I. without internet access.

    And of course, everything else on the internet that I do, watch, and download.

    We are already too dependent on the internet. Online anything, ATM cards, electronic banking (a convenient but BAD idea right from the start), iPhones, streaming this, cloud based storage that, etc. Some day it will all come crashing down. Maybe not anytime soon, but it could always start to happen 63 seconds from now, and the hardware / servers / power supply can't last forever on their own.

    All my own video files are backed up in multiple non-cloud locations, of course, but for anyone else to see my videos they need the internet. For the first couple years of my website and webshow, I offered a set of the high bit rate episodes on CDs / DVDs for little more than the cost of burning them. No one ever wanted a set.

    Let's not forget the EMP threat. I can't see how that would permanently disable everything, (shouldn't a system restart fix it after the EMP surge fades away?) but the articles I read about it didn't sound good.
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Alexandria, VA Icrontian
    None of what you said makes sense:
    Tim said:

    I cannot imagine how many businesses and people out there rely on cloud based computing for their needs, but just in my own little internet world:

    Pretty much everyone in the western world, either to perform their job duties, or sell products, or create designs for products.
    Tim said:


    World of Warcraft and TF2 - REQUIRE internet access to play.
    Starcraft 2 - online multiplayer requires internet, but at least I can play the campaign or A.I. without internet access.

    And of course, everything else on the internet that I do, watch, and download.

    And yet you are ranting about how "the cloud" doesn't make sense. We should all just go back to the classics, like checkers with pebbles and good ol' "hit each other with some sticks".
    Tim said:


    We are already too dependent on the internet. Online anything, ATM cards, electronic banking (a convenient but BAD idea right from the start), iPhones, streaming this, cloud based storage that, etc. Some day it will all come crashing down. Maybe not anytime soon, but it could always start to happen 63 seconds from now, and the hardware / servers / power supply can't last forever on their own.

    All my own video files are backed up in multiple non-cloud locations, of course, but for anyone else to see my videos they need the internet. For the first couple years of my website and webshow, I offered a set of the high bit rate episodes on CDs / DVDs for little more than the cost of burning them. No one ever wanted a set.

    Let's not forget the EMP threat. I can't see how that would permanently disable everything, (shouldn't a system restart fix it after the EMP surge fades away?) but the articles I read about it didn't sound good.


    As usual, you disparage the use of advances in tech while employing them constantly. You can live entirely without some of those things, but its gonna be a rather annoying way to live (perhaps that suits the wisher). No requests for "Tim's Chocolate Pain"? Hmmm

    EMP ruins most electrical equipment completely, as in "complete overhaul or refitting in order to function again" and that assumes you even have access to non-ruined equipment, designs, materials, manufacturing capacity, etc.
  • CB said:

    the typical home user could even today survive on just a dumb terminal connected to the cloud. Someday, methinks, this will be the de facto.

    Between the iPad, Kindle Fire, and Nexus 7, it seems like that's exactly where the tablet market is headed.
  • SnarkasmSnarkasm Madison, WI Icrontian
    Obligatory Chromebook reference.
  • GnomeQueenGnomeQueen The Lulz Queen Mountain Dew Mouth Icrontian
    Kwitko said:

    It's crossed our minds. We have physical and cloud backups. The problem with the physical, disk-based backups is that they don't leave the building, so if there's a fire, so long backups. On the other hand, the odds are pretty slim that both the cloud and the physical backups will disappear at the same time. If that happens, I think there are more pressing problems, like the end of the world.

    I took an entire class this semester about digital preservation and how important backups and migration and blah blah blah are. It's a problem that many are aware of, except perhaps for the general public.

    Digital information is VERY fragile, which is why there are tons of businesses out there who specialize in long term archival storage that have backups upon backups upon backups with people in charge of making sure that formats are changed when they are obsolete, that someone is monitoring security and many (if not all) of these places have disaster planning as well.

    Granted, there's still lots of additional work needed, but that's because technology changes so quickly it's hard to stay on top of which format should be the best, how can we back it all up in the most cost efficient yet secure way, etc.

    Blah blah blah.
  • Even if your data makes it into the Library of Congress, it still will (most likely) bite it one day. I'm sure people said the same thing about the Library of Alexandria back in the day. Eventually all things decay.
    GnomeQueenSpencerForHire
  • Am I weird if I trust my picasa upload to be where I left it more than I trust myself to remember where I put that photo CD?
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Alexandria, VA Icrontian
    ardichoke said:

    Even if your data makes it into the Library of Congress, it still will (most likely) bite it one day. I'm sure people said the same thing about the Library of Alexandria back in the day. Eventually all things decay.

    I had three of my best papyrus scrolls there and they just let them all get burned up.
    GHoosdumStraight_ManAlexDeGruven
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