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Thoughts on MMOs

d3k0yd3k0y Loveland, OH Icrontian
In case it isn't particularly obvious to anyone I have problems with MMOs; I like them, but get bored of them quickly. So I figured why not ask Icrontic what their opinions and thoughts were of the MMOs that are on the market now, or coming out soon. First I guess I will list off what I have though of the MMOs that I have played.

Everquest:
Kind of my fall back game. I really like this game, mostly for the nostalgia since it was my first MMO ever, but partially because I really kind of like the heavy emphasis on grouping. Solo can happen, but usually it is pinned down to a super grindy grind fest of grinding something 10 levels lower than you are until you pass out on the keyboard. I still play this game off and on when I have nothing better to do.

Everquest 2:
I thought I would like this game as much as I liked EQ, but apparently SOE tried really hard to make the UI harder to read and more clunky. I only ever got to level 20 in this game before I found myself being pointed toward a zone that was way too hard for me, and so little player support from the community that I just got fed up and quit. Though until I find a better game, this will probably be my next game on my cycle of MMO-frog-hopping.

Star Wars: The Old Republic:
I don't even know what to say about this. I liked the game when it first came out, and quickly realized that the class I picked was the wrong one. I have a really hard time doing the same thing twice (this is a killer for most MMO as you will see), so the idea of leveling another class to do roughly the same thing was pretty much out of the question. The quests were decent, though nothing new or revolutionary in the genre. I loved the space battles until you finally realize they are just a money pit where you hold down the button. They could have been so much more than a "this is impossible to until until you spend X amount of credits, then it is stupid easy". I played a Juggernaut up to level 60 which was 2-3 weeks after release then realized there was so little raiding going on I had nothing left to do and quit. Then they went F2P two months or so later, so the 60 bucks I dropped on the game was pretty much a huge waste and I got pissed enough I will probably never pick the game back up.

Rift:
I beta tested this way back when, I liked the fact that it in my mind a spiritual successor to EQ and a better EQ2. The classes were similar, the play style was similar, it was group oriented and had some dynamic global raids there were fun to hop around to if you didn't have another group thing to do. I never got around to picking it up after that because I didn't really like how eventually all the classes in each of the "callings" were essentially the same; at least in the beta. I picked it up again a week ago to try it out before it went F2P and it looks like they fixed most of the issues I had with it. The classes are different enough now that I feel like if I am playing an offensive dark magic healer that I am not exactly the same as the offensive light magic healer. I would play this more but I already hit the current F2P cap and can't really do much more until they go full F2P in a week. Again, leveling another character isn't going to happen.

Guild Wars 2:
I borrow a friend's account because I didn't want to toss a full game price of money at a game that I am pretty sure wasn't going to hold my interest. This game was kind of a tortured experience for me, I really liked it and kind of hated it. Some of the best innovations I have seen in a MMO of late come from this game. The extra bits of adventuring and exploring really got me enjoying the game. The combat was decently interesting, though a bit plain to an extent. I know I can weapon swap to change up abilities, but I would really much prefer to be able to focus on one thing and just be really really good at it. It kind of sucked knowing once I got the 4-5 abilities for the weapon that I would pretty much be just as good at that as anyone else that used the weapon for 10 minutes. The skill tree was interesting, but the fact you have to buy a ton of skills that you never plan on using just to get the next tier was pretty annoying. That being said, what killed this for me was why this was so torturing, the game is fun and innovative and beautiful but has almost nil in terms of end-game raids, I hate PvP. I knew going in that GW2 was a PvP based game and no matter how much I liked it up to the end-game it would going to come to a sudden and dismal end for me.

World of Warcraft:
I spent more real-life time on this than any other game (most in-game time belongs to EQ). I raided up to the max tier in Wrath of the Lich King, I was one of the top 20 shaman on the server, in one of the top 3 guilds on the server. It was fun and enjoyable... and then The Cataclysm, rightly named Cataclysm. I don't know what the hell Blizzard was thinking with this expansion, but the path they started to take after this ruined the entire series for me, I can't even go start a new character to dick around. They have dumbed this game down into pathetic proportions. They went from 3 talent trees, to 3 partial talent trees, to 1 talent tree, to no talent tree where you instead choose from one of three shit abilities that have nothing to do with the class I want to play ever 10 levels. I went from choosing 50 different tiny talents to 5 big (but crap) talents. There is no more real difference in the game, everyone uses the same gear, the same skills, the same everything. It is like wandering through a game of clones.

Not-Yet-Played
TERA:
It looks interesting... it has classes, and looks like it has group game play and raiding, but not in the same exact way as every other MMO I have played. It is action and skill based, healers no longer just go "I am healing this guy" you have to actually FPS launch your heals at your target. If you tank is moving around like a retard, and you aren't keeping up with him, then all your heals miss. Not sure how I am going to feel about that, but it sounds new enough it might keep me interested for a bit. Hopefully they spent as much time on the gameplay as I think they did on making sure every and all titties in the game jiggled as if a the girl was on a trampoline with no bra on even if she is wearing full plate armor.

Everquest NEXT:
I can't even being to tell you how excited I am for this game. The amount of information about it is pretty much nothing, but the few sentences I have been able to find from developers and interviews about it really get me hoping that it will be almost Everquest all over again, but with updated everything. I am hoping for a an equally class based, group based, long term PvE game as the original. Add in some solo content so I have something to do in the hours it may take for me to find a group and I will be in hog heaven.

Final Fantasy XIV - A Realm Reborn:
This is kind of an up in the air game for me. I heard a lot of fun stories about FFXI from some friends, all of which made me really want to play, only I would have joined so late in the life-cycle I felt it would be impossible for me to be able to get anywhere. At the same time, a friend of mine that beta-tested FFXIV originally, said the game was dismal, obviously rushed, badly planned and clunky if there ever was a game. It sounds like they took a lot of what player said about it and tried to fix it, then realized it still wasn't good enough, shut it down and started all over again. A lot of what I have read about it sounds promising. From armor based classes, similar to GW2 weapon based abilities, but full down class changes to lots of PvE based group combat. Depending on how they execute the game could make this my next MMO or one that I just avoid like the plague, and at a 25 dollar price point I feel I can afford to test the waters and not get too mad it if fails horribly and makes me waste my money.

Comments

  • fatcatfatcat Mizzou Icrontian
    edited Jun 2013
    Just a note on GW2. You haven't done any of the Fractals of the Mists have you? http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fractals_of_the_Mists
    I'm also guessing you haven't done any of the Guild Bounties either? http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Bounty

    There's plenty of end game content.

    Also note, you're supposed to be weapon swapping all the time, utilizing all 10 skills.
  • TheironhandTheironhand Centerline, Michigan Icrontian
    Does Icrontic still have a GW2 community?

    Oh and everyone should try playing Runescape 2007. Really fun and addicting.
    MAGIC
  • BuddyJBuddyJ Dept. of Propaganda OKC Icrontian
    EVE is best MMO.
    Theironhand
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Alexandria, VA Icrontian
    edited Jun 2013
    Until EVE, I've hard a lot of trouble holding on to any MMO for longer than a couple months (since my WoW days ... I played that for several years total with a one year break in the middle). Got to late 20s or early 30s in SWTOR, found it uninteresting at that point, same with GW2. The thing that kept me in WoW so long was the people in my guild, several of whom I've now met IRL and continue to talk with long after ceasing to play. That's how I know @Jboogaloo and our mutual friends Jes & Chris. I also beta'd 3 or more MMOs over the last 3 years and never once got hooked. All of them seem way too similar, but I'm trying to give Neverwinter Nights a decent chance.

    EVE has an almost limitless complexity (in terms of the opportunities for totally different types of content) that is limited only by your time investment in the game or willingness to buy a character :D , so that keeps me around and again, it's the people I frequently talk with that are keeping me in this game, though it's a smaller number of people that I regularly work with here vs WoW, while participating in much larger operations (i.e. yesterday, on my side of a big battle, we have over 1000 people involved and ~450-500 enemies).
    JBoogalooTheironhand
  • TeramonaTeramona Baroness von Puttenham In a cute little love nest with Mymidan. Icrontian

    Does Icrontic still have a GW2 community?

    A couple of us tried to keep that going for a while, but people were losing interest in it even before we had our best nights running dungeons. Honestly, I miss the shit out of it, and I would totally be down if a few people wanted to get together and run dungeons every once in a while again.
  • d3k0yd3k0y Loveland, OH Icrontian
    I tried Eve, and by "tried" I mean I start the game, I got my ship, flew in a line for 5 minutes and found an asteroid. I spent half an hour mining said asteroid, flew back to my "base" and got confused on how to sell what I got, then flew in to lowsec. Got blown up, then flew around for 2 hours in my escape pod, then logged out and deleted the game.
    PirateNinjaTushonkless001
  • ThraxThrax Professional Shill, Watch Slut, Mumble Hivemind Drone Austin, TX Icrontian
    d3k0y said:

    I tried Eve, and by "tried" I mean I start the game, I got my ship, flew in a line for 5 minutes and found an asteroid. I spent half an hour mining said asteroid, flew back to my "base" and got confused on how to sell what I got, then flew in to lowsec. Got blown up, then flew around for 2 hours in my escape pod, then logged out and deleted the game.


    If it makes you feel any better, I logged 40 hours in the game and never really saw much of a point.
  • fatcatfatcat Mizzou Icrontian
    edited Jun 2013

    Does Icrontic still have a GW2 community?

    the icrontic one is dead. I joined another guild on Ehmry Bay and there is 15-30 of us on a night. Currently we're doing CoF, AC, and CM runs along with Southsun cove, Fractals and guild bounties
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Alexandria, VA Icrontian
    d3k0y said:

    I tried Eve, and by "tried" I mean I start the game, I got my ship, flew in a line for 5 minutes and found an asteroid. I spent half an hour mining said asteroid, flew back to my "base" and got confused on how to sell what I got, then flew in to lowsec. Got blown up, then flew around for 2 hours in my escape pod, then logged out and deleted the game.

    I can easily see how you would have that experience. The tutorials are kinda silly. Some people have an awesome time just running around solo and killing people, but I prefer various levels of group stuff and that's what keeps it fun for me.
    TheironhandBuddyJJBoogaloo
  • RahnalH102RahnalH102 the Green Devout, Veteran Monster Hunter, Creature Enthusiast New Mexico Icrontian
    From my experience of MMO jumping, probably one of the biggest factors is the other players. For instance what you cited in EQ and what Tushon cited overall in his post. An MMO can be the coolest, prettiest, most complex thing the developers can make it, but for it to truly reach it's full potential, you need something external that the game can only attract and facilitate, other players. Especially those who you enjoy playing with. You all already know this though.

    I state this because it is probably the main factor I look for in an MMO.

    WoW: At first I avoided WoW like the plague. I guess it was because I didn't want to get truly "addicted" like the "horror stories" about MMOs that appeared on the news and such. However a bunch of friends started playing it so I decided to give it a try. That was back in November of 2007, during mid-BC. Skip to today and I'm the only one out of all those original friends that still plays it. I still play because of the friends I made in that time. In fact the main memories of things I enjoyed in WoW all involved said friends. Sadly, similar to what happened to the IC guild in GW2 (at least how it appears to me,) a majority of those friends and players stopped after an untimely death. As for the aspects for the game itself: I like where they are going with the story and exploration. I like almsot everythign about MoP. I agree that Cata was quite lackluster. My friends made it worth it though. I believe tBlizz had the right intention fro "revamping/reworking" talents. How it should be done though I have not the slightest clue and will leave that messy problem to them. Putting points into passives and abilities that actually matter and make you feel different (say Rift) but without those passives that are just so meh but are required to get to others. There are age problems that Blizz has to deal with for WoW, but with what they've learned from cata and the influx of old developers from Titan, things may pick up in those regards.

    GW2: Started playing it for the IC comradere, still play off and on for the solo adventures. Currently 70 and despite the focus on solo work am (mostly) ready and willing for group work. So ...
    Teramona said:

    Does Icrontic still have a GW2 community?

    A couple of us tried to keep that going for a while, but people were losing interest in it even before we had our best nights running dungeons. Honestly, I miss the shit out of it, and I would totally be down if a few people wanted to get together and run dungeons every once in a while again.
    if anything starts happening let me know.

    EVE: I've tried multiple times to get into EVE. have failed each time. However my brother downloaded Dust so if activity in that can contribute to the IC group I will give that a shot.

    Other MMOs that I play/am looking forward to:

    AdventureQuest Worlds (AQW): A F2P browser based MMO run by a small but eccentric game company out of Florida (last I checked.) This series and me go way back. The creaters first started with a flash RPG (Adventure Quest), and as they gradually met success, they started a another game almost every year, with a few mini-games spattered throughout that time, while continually updating each game. The fourth "full" game to be released was AQW. It continued the somewhat tongue-in-cheek fantasy storytelling/dialog from the others but seeked to combine aspects of it's predecessors.

    Pros:
    ·One of the highest amounts of customization for any game ever.
    ·Weekly updates. A feature of all Artix Entertainment games. They release new content for all major games each Friday. As you might imagine it's nothing HUGE each week, but this late in development (almost 6 years) there is plenty for you to do.
    ·Kid friendly, and simple. This can be a con for some. Anyone can play so long as they can click a mouse. Canned chat on some servers so no spamming and or foul language should you chose that environment.
    ·Lots of classes, not bound to any. Classes are equipable here. if you want to fight differently or a healer is needed for the boss, just swap armor. No need to hop to another character and have them quested as far.
    ·Not bound to a home server.
    ·No loot discrepancies. Similar to GW2, but even further in that drops are gained together. If a cool looking sword drops for me after I killed a boss with a group of strangers, then those strangers got that sword too.

    Cons:
    ·Reputations (and subsequently some classes) are very grindy. Maybe not EQ level or even WoW level, but the effort you put in vs. the progress made can feel underwhelming.
    ·Being that it is F2P there are some annoying ploys to get you to buy their real-money currency. The main two being super quick shortcuts on some classes, and bag/bank space. It coinsides with the previous con. For example, either A) spend a month farming rep for a class, or B) Pay $5 to get it now. That's just off my head I can't recall their prices right away. Oh and they took a page from TF2 and have a "Crate & Key" system.
    ·Being that it updates every Friday, said new content can be quite buggy sometimes. They usually get those stomped within a a day or so.

    The Elder Scrolls Online (TESO)
    Looks promising. From what testers have been able to say/share, it sounds like story and feel wise, it will be an Elder Scrolls game. the ship is still out on what endgame might be like. Here's hoping not a SWTOR.

    Wildstar
    Promising mechanics in this one, plus I love the way it looks. Reminds me of Ratchet & Clank aesthetic wise.


    That's a quick little thing on my current MMO'ness. As long as there are friends playing it, I may be okay with it, or if it has some good soloability, otherwise I'm not long for it's world(s).

    ... What have I typed?!
  • SnarkasmSnarkasm Madison, WI Icrontian
    There's absolutely only one thing that ultimately matters in an MMO, and it's exactly what Rahnal said - other people. It's an MMO for a reason. I got into SWTOR with friends, made new ones there, became an officer in a new guild, became a guild leader in another, and currently have 30-40 people I call my friends that I run stuff every day with. There is a bunch of new content since the original days (level cap was 50 then, not 60, btw), and I'm still having fun. Contrast to GW2, I was never on when anybody else was, and the introductory story was abysmal, so I peaced out incredibly quickly. Without other people to play and quest with, MMOs rarely stand on their own.

    Personally, I feel the actual class quests for the classes in SWTOR are some of the better storytelling in gaming. It's a shame that they're packed around the same planet quests, yes, but there are ways around doing all those quests constantly.

    So, tl;dr: the problem is less likely the games and more likely the lack of a fun environment encouraging your play.
  • JhaerJhaer Atlanta, GA New
    edited Jun 2013
    I get into games for the social activity. EverQuest was great mostly because it encouraged social interaction by not having things. There was no auction house or bazaar (at first) and entire communities grew around that - on some servers it was the East Commonlands tunnel, on others it was the spires in Greater Faydark, etc. The game didn't give you recipes for everything, so communities grew out of figuring that stuff out. The game hid lots of numbers, so communities grew out of parsing and theorycrafting. Quests were hard to find, sometimes confusing, long, with difficult to obtain parts from the four corners of the world, and communities grew out of finding, understanding and completing them. Now that games give you a lot of that stuff out of the box, there is no need to form communities around them...

    Then you have voice chat, which is neat but it also isolates you from the general community. Now people only talk to people in their relatively tiny circle of people they already know.

    I want to love an MMO again, but every time I pick a new one up, it's the same silent spoon-fed experience as all the other games.
  • ThraxThrax Professional Shill, Watch Slut, Mumble Hivemind Drone Austin, TX Icrontian
    EverQuest = best MMO of all time. It forced people to play together like an atom smasher, and I think the concept of "solo play" has ruined MMOs, even while expanding the audience. I took the "MM" right out of "MMORPG."
  • MAGICMAGIC Doot Doot Furniture City, Michigan Icrontian
    Thrax said:

    EverQuest = best MMO of all time. It forced people to play together like an atom smasher, and I think the concept of "solo play" has ruined MMOs, even while expanding the audience. I took the "MM" right out of "MMORPG."

    Word.
  • d3k0yd3k0y Loveland, OH Icrontian
    edited Jun 2013
    Which is why I am so excited about FFXIV and EQN, I really really hope they start pushing back into the multiplayer aspect of it, maybe not to the extent where you HAVE to have a full party to do anything, but to get good flow you need about half a full group. FFXIV actually have a group size of 8, which is going to be hella weird.
  • ThraxThrax Professional Shill, Watch Slut, Mumble Hivemind Drone Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited Jun 2013
    Nobody is ever going to go back to that model. It ostracizes millions of paying players. Money always wins.
  • d3k0yd3k0y Loveland, OH Icrontian
    So with Rift being full F2P now I started playing it a but more than I did before. If anyone wants to join me and my small group of friends we are on Threesprings on the Defiant side. We have an inappropriatly named guild as well that I am pretty sure we will have to change the name of eventually.
  • SonorousSonorous F@H Fanatic Virginia Icrontian
    I have been beta testing FFXIV:ARR and Love it. Of course I was a die hard FFXI player when it was in it's prime so it has a nostalgic property I don't get from other MMOs. I just got the PS3 beta invite for it and as soon as I have power back I'll be playing that as much as I can.
  • d3k0yd3k0y Loveland, OH Icrontian
    Let me know how it goes, I am pretty damned excited for it. Rift is just a filler for me until I get my hands on EQ:N and FFXIV:ARR. Also I will be more than happy to take any friend invites to the beta you may get. I know P4 for the Beta is Open, but any extra hours I can jam into the beta would be awesome.
  • d3k0yd3k0y Loveland, OH Icrontian
    edited Jun 2013
    EQ:N won best of show for E3 by MMORPG.com. Lots of people are whining that it shouldn't count since EQ:N wasn't even really shown at E3, it just have a private preview of the reveal in August. The writer's comment was pretty much "suck it up, when you see this game bricks will be shit".

    He also does point out they are now toting EQ:N as a Sandbox Fantasy MMORPG. I have no idea what that actually means, but it does open the door for a lot of possibilities.

    That being said, I am still buying FFXIV:AAR and I am still planning on that being my game-of-choice. Though I think I might skip out on the collectors edition and get the standard.
  • SonorousSonorous F@H Fanatic Virginia Icrontian
    d3k0y said:

    That being said, I am still buying FFXIV:AAR and I am still planning on that being my game-of-choice. Though I think I might skip out on the collectors edition and get the standard.

    Standard is the route I think I might go as well. Let me know if you decided to do the open beta. I don't know of anyone else who will be playing this, so it would be nice to have someone to play with.
  • d3k0yd3k0y Loveland, OH Icrontian
    Sonorous said:


    Standard is the route I think I might go as well. Let me know if you decided to do the open beta. I don't know of anyone else who will be playing this, so it would be nice to have someone to play with.

    I will definitely be jumping on that band-wagon when it comes around. Assuming you get to keep your beta characters when it moves to Open Beta, what server/shard/crystal/cluster/lump are you on, if I need to worry about that.

  • d3k0yd3k0y Loveland, OH Icrontian
    http://www.zam.com/giveaways/final-fantasy-xiv-a-realm-reborn.html

    I got a key, but I haven't received an email about being in the beta yet. Still worth jumping on if you wanted in I think.
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