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School Start Times

AnnesAnnes Tripped Up by Libidos and HubrisAlexandria, VA Icrontian
edited Jun 2013 in The Pub
Inspired by a conversation in IRC today in which @CB learns about the Start School Later Movement. When did your schools start? What do you think of starting school later? How can I make this sound more like a lame Facebook post begging for comments?
JBoogalooLinc
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Comments

  • ardichokeardichoke Buttes Master B Lansing, MI Icrontian
    edited Jun 2013
    If I recall correctly, school started around 7:45 when I was in grade school and a little earlier than that in High School. It was exceptionally rough in grade school. I remember always feeling half asleep for at least the first hour or so. Probably didn't help that I found everything we were learning to be really boring.

    The last two years of high school, I attended a trade school (of sorts, I also got college credit for it) for the first half of the day each day. That was from 7:15a-10:15a (I think) then I would go to my normal high school for the rest of the day. That wasn't so bad, I would imagine that had to do with the fact that I was older though.

    I would definitely have liked school to start later in grade school at least. I didn't find it to be quite as troublesome in high school.
  • mertesnmertesn I am Bobby Miller Yukon, OK Icrontian
    I think the time arguments are bullshit. The bigger problem is staying up way too late on school nights. Kids want to stay up until 2:00am doing whatever they want (games, TV, etc). Figure out what time is needed to get ready for school, pad it by 15-30 minutes to account for the occasional slow start, and set a bed time 7-9 hours ahead of that depending on sleep needs. You'd be amazed what a fixed schedule will do.
    Annes said:

    How can I make this sound more like a lame Facebook post begging for comments?

    Throw in some made up statistics, tie in some religious rantings and other internet toughguy talk to make your point.
    JBoogaloopigflipper
  • ThraxThrax Professional Shill, Watch Slut, Mumble Hivemind Drone Austin, TX Icrontian
    I started school at 8:10 AM every morning from K-12. I hated it then, but i realize now that it's optimal: you get out early enough to have a social life, the ability to take an after-school job, perform extra-curriculars in the light of day and so on.

    That said, studies have capably proven that a fixed schedule of 6-8 hours of nightly sleep is all that's required for healthy, alert individuals.
  • CBCB Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Der Millionendorf- Icrontian
    mertesn said:

    I think the time arguments are bullshit. The bigger problem is staying up way too late on school nights. Kids want to stay up until 2:00am doing whatever they want (games, TV, etc). Figure out what time is needed to get ready for school, pad it by 15-30 minutes to account for the occasional slow start, and set a bed time 7-9 hours ahead of that depending on sleep needs. You'd be amazed what a fixed schedule will do.

    Part of the argument for the movement comes from the research, which shows that, due to an altered circadian rhythm (caused by puberty), most teenagers are biologically incapable of getting good sleep before 11pm. Personally, I know for sure that that was true for me.

    I had to get up between 5 and 530am to get to school on time in high school, and I only got 4-5 hours of sleep because of it. Trying to get to sleep earlier was not only distasteful (no teen wants an 8pm bed time), but fruitless. Because of this, I basically sleep-walked through the weekdays for my entire teenaged experience.
    ardichoke
  • MiracleManSMiracleManS Chambersburg, PA Icrontian
    Elementary School started at 7:30am, middle and high school started at 8:30am. I never noticed in elementary school because my daily routine was to wake up at 4am and watch the live action Ninja Turtles movie.

    High school was a bit different, but it wasn't much a of a problem once I hit senior year, if only because I had 0 period (7:15 start time) for AP Physics.
  • RyderRyder Kalamazoo, Mi Icrontian
    edited Jun 2013
    1st bell at 8:10, in class and seated by 8:15 for second bell and the day starts. Final bell at 3:07, buses pulled out at 3:15 to go home. Bus arrived anywhere from 7:30 to 7:40, we were only 4 miles from the school.
    In bed by 9pm until I was 14/15 and I didn't turn out so bad.
    I am old fashioned, get off my lawn.
  • ardichokeardichoke
    stands defiantly on @Ryder's lawn
    Buttes Master B Lansing, MI Icrontian
    stands defiantly on @Ryder's lawn
    mertesn
  • PirateNinjaPirateNinja I don't know how to not Icrontian
    Just commenting on my personal experience and memories as a case study, the only thing this would have changed for me growing up is that it would have taken away 1-3 hours on the work day. I would have made less money and had less job experience between ages 15-17.
    Seemingly no matter what, I was hellbent on staying awake until 1am on weekdays when I was a teenager. My guess would be that if school started 2 hours later I would have stayed up 2 more hours, still been very tired and fallen asleep in classes.

    Is the argument here that adolescents have some natural sleeping pattern that keeps them up late at night? I always thought I stayed up late because I was addicted to video games and developing my hobbies, and I could have cared less about school back then.
  • CBCB Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Der Millionendorf- Icrontian
    edited Jun 2013



    Is the argument here that adolescents have some natural sleeping pattern that keeps them up late at night?

    Yes. That's the well-evidenced point upon which the argument is made.
    Proponents of a return to later school hours cite abundant evidence that starting middle and high school before about 8:30 or 9 a.m. is incompatible with the biological clocks of teenagers and young adults.[40] In 1993, a team led by Mary Carskadon, PhD, of Brown University showed that changes in circadian biology during puberty drive a "sleep-phase delay," a shift in the sleep-wake patterns of adolescents that leads them to fall asleep and wake up later than younger and older people. Subsequent studies have confirmed these findings, explored the impact of school start times on the sleep needs and patterns of adolescents.[2], and demonstrated a "phase shift" in the release of melatonin at puberty, which appears to be involved in shifting the sleep-wake cycle several hours later during the adolescent years.[41][42][43] This same delayed phase shift in the release of melatonin has been seen in other mammals.[44]
  • QCHQCH Ancient Guru Chicago Area - USA Icrontian
    I have the luxury of seeing two generations of my kids go to school. I tend to agree with the idea that younger kids can more easily adapt to an earlier start time, middle school less accommodating, and high schoolers not doing well with early start times. My daughter had a fairly strict 8:30/9:00pm bedtime. Until about 3rd grade, we had to help her get ready but after that, she did it all herself. That held until she was in about 7th grade. Then homework began pushing it a little. By, say sophomore, she was up until almost 11 doing homework. By Senior year, she was up until midnight many school nights. THEN she had to be up and out the door by a bit before 7:00. Being a girl, that meant getting up before 6 (several alarm clocks set to 5:30) and I often had to get her up when I get up at 6:30. She didn't have a job through high school but she did have Irish Dance twice a week. Did she start her homework the second she got home, no but she was working on it by the time I got home around 5:30.

    Now with my younger kids, they seem to do better with the mornings... Wake up, bathroom, change cloths, breakfast, teeth, and leave in about 40 minutes. Of course they start school at 8:20 and have to be ready for the bus by 8.

    SIDE NOTE... I think a side benefit is that the older kids can be trusted to get on the bus after adults leave for work... younger kids need someone to watch or actually get on the bus. Often that means I cannot get to work before 9 since I have to wait for my 8 year old to get on the bus at 8 and then I'm not home until close to 6pm. If she had her bus at, say, 7:15... I'd almost be able to get to work at 8 and home by 5. More quality time with the kids...
  • TheironhandTheironhand Centerline, Michigan Icrontian
    edited Jun 2013
    I'm a Sophomore in high school and I wake up around 5:30 to get dressed, shower and other stuff.
    I can't drive yet so I go to the bus stop at 6:30ish and wait until 6:55, when the bus arrives. Sometimes I pick up my girlfriend at her house and walk with her, that means I get out of the house around 6:10.

    Depending on who is driving, we either get at school at 7:10 or 7:20, the first bell rings around 7:35.

    PS-THE BUS SUCKS.


  • JBoogalooJBoogaloo This too shall pass... Alexandria, VA Icrontian
    my view: I don't remember when elementary school started, but I do know that high school started early (7:15 or close to it) and by 2:30 we were home (if you didn't have some after school gig going on). I get the circadian rythm view/study, but I also believe (key word, believe) that diets and activity levels of children now may play a big part into why sleep habits are fukt. Also I agree partially with what @mertesn and @Pirateninja said. :thumbsup:
    I had a 10pm bedtime in high school and if I wanted to sneak in a few games, tv, or reads I would until I passed out. And if I knew school was starting later (snow delay, whatever) I'd be up the extra number of hours we would be delayed (tbh, I still do that shit for work, too :D
  • GnomeQueenGnomeQueen The Lulz Queen Mountain Dew Mouth Icrontian
    I liked the way my high school did it (although they have since changed their rules). 7:15-8:00 was zero hour, which was optional. 8:00-9:00 was common hour, which did have a few classes, but was mainly set up as a planning/arriving time. 9:00 was first period, and we got out at 3.

    I did take zero hour two years, but the years I didn't, it was AWESOME. 9am was such a great start time compared to seven. I felt a lot better rested, and the common hour time period meant that I could get a lot done if I wanted to come earlier. I have to admit, I thought the common hour thing was dumb at first, but I later on saw that it was pretty useful.
    ardichoke
  • ThraxThrax Professional Shill, Watch Slut, Mumble Hivemind Drone Austin, TX Icrontian
    what is this hippy unstructured hours and five hours of class time bullshit
    JBoogalooMiracleManS
  • GnomeQueenGnomeQueen The Lulz Queen Mountain Dew Mouth Icrontian
    Six hours of class time, split into 7 hours with 7 minutes of passing time. :)
  • RyderRyder Kalamazoo, Mi Icrontian
    edited Jun 2013
    Holy crap, we had 3 minutes between classes (5th through 12th grade)

    Most of my aversion to this is the bedtime business. There is nothing wrong with being firm on bedtime until the kids are 12-14, IMO.
  • GnomeQueenGnomeQueen The Lulz Queen Mountain Dew Mouth Icrontian
    We have the longest school in Illinois, and the upper south and north buildings did not connect. It was HARD getting to class in 7 minutes, a lot of times.
  • JBoogalooJBoogaloo This too shall pass... Alexandria, VA Icrontian

    We have the longest school in Illinois, and the upper south and north buildings did not connect. It was HARD getting to class in 7 minutes, a lot of times.

    My immaturity just had me laughing hysterically at this.

  • MAGICMAGIC Doot Doot Furniture City, Michigan Icrontian
    I believe we started high school at 730, but I know we got out at 2:30.

    We have the longest school in Illinois, and the upper south and north buildings did not connect. It was HARD getting to class in 7 minutes, a lot of times.

    Word, we had a large U shaped building. If you had to go from one end to the other and it was raining or not summer to where you could cut across the parking lot, it took forever.
  • mertesnmertesn I am Bobby Miller Yukon, OK Icrontian

    We have the longest school in Illinois, and the upper south and north buildings did not connect. It was HARD getting to class in 7 minutes, a lot of times.

    It's not the size of the school that counts...
  • AnnesAnnes Tripped Up by Libidos and Hubris Alexandria, VA Icrontian
    This is all madness to me. Grades 2-12: 915am start time, 410pm exit time.
  • mertesnmertesn I am Bobby Miller Yukon, OK Icrontian
    Maybe it lines up better with people's work hours?
  • CBCB Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Der Millionendorf- Icrontian
    Ryder said:

    Holy crap, we had 3 minutes between classes (5th through 12th grade)

    Most of my aversion to this is the bedtime business. There is nothing wrong with being firm on bedtime until the kids are 12-14, IMO.

    That;'s the thing though. You can be as firm as you want about bedtimes, but for most teens, they are unable to get quality sleep before 11pm, no matter when they actually occupy the bed. There are always exceptions, but telling a typical teen to go to bed at nine is like telling an adult to go to bed at 6pm, from a biological standpoint. No matter how early you need to get up, that's just not going to work for most people.
  • RyderRyder Kalamazoo, Mi Icrontian
    A lot of diversity shown here from state to state on schooling.
  • JBoogalooJBoogaloo This too shall pass... Alexandria, VA Icrontian
    Yeesh, Annes! Something about an after 4pm end of day makes me cringe.
  • MiracleManSMiracleManS Chambersburg, PA Icrontian
    As an athlete, I can't imagine getting out of school at 4:10 only to get on the practice field by (at best) 4:30 (and likely closer to 5). In the fall, it gets just about too dark to do anything close to a safe drill without having a fully lit practice area, something that my school (with as well off a set of students as you could imagine) could not afford.
  • AnnesAnnes Tripped Up by Libidos and Hubris Alexandria, VA Icrontian
    edited Jun 2013

    As an athlete, I can't imagine getting out of school at 4:10 only to get on the practice field by (at best) 4:30 (and likely closer to 5). In the fall, it gets just about too dark to do anything close to a safe drill without having a fully lit practice area, something that my school (with as well off a set of students as you could imagine) could not afford.

    Yup, all afternoon practices started at 430. We didn't have special practice areas, we just practiced on the playing fields which were fully lit. Practice would run until 630 or 7 and then you'd head home. Having the later ending time allowed parents plenty of time after work to get to the fields to pick up their kids. How did you manage when practice was over at 4? Were there special buses?

    Having the day end after 4 never bothered me and my parents were always home when I got off the bus, so no need for extended hours programs or anything like that. The whole setup was pretty great.

  • MiracleManSMiracleManS Chambersburg, PA Icrontian
    Annes said:

    How did you manage when practice was over at 4? Were there special buses?
    My football practices were typically 3:30/4:00 until 6:30 or 7. Track roughly as long.

  • GnomeQueenGnomeQueen The Lulz Queen Mountain Dew Mouth Icrontian
    I almost never left school before 6pm, and often not until 8:30 or 10pm. Pretty sure coaches would have just kept us longer if school got out earlier.
  • QCHQCH Ancient Guru Chicago Area - USA Icrontian
    We have two grade schools (K-3), one intermediate school (4-6), middle school (7-8), and then Freshman campus (9th), and then High School (10-12). I know my district have limited number of buses. They do the high school and drop them off at 7:15. Then they go grab the middle and intermediate and drop them off at 8:00.

    The other half of the fleet grabs the Freshman school kids and drops them off at 7:30 and then grabs grade school kids and drops them off at 8:15.

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