Damn dude. I switched specs, my DPS on average is higher than it used to be, I'm #3 DPS in the raid, but I'm only doing 12th percentile damage for 699 shadow priests. I mean, I know my gear stats aren't optimized for my new spec at all, but that's just inexcusable. Blegh.
I'm also pretty far down there. It's a far cry from fights where I was in high percentiles as a healer... My cooldown management is something that I am constantly trying to figure out.
@primesuspect said:
Damn dude. I switched specs, my DPS on average is higher than it used to be, I'm #3 DPS in the raid, but I'm only doing 12th percentile damage for 699 shadow priests. I mean, I know my gear stats aren't optimized for my new spec at all, but that's just inexcusable. Blegh.
On which fight, socrethar? Where I have you dealing with interrupts and ghosts? Or xhul horrac, where I have you soaking black holes and kiting ranged mobs?
Zakuun, Iskar, and A Butt Tuba would be the best estimates if percentile is what you're aiming for.
RahnalH102the Green Devout, Veteran Monster Hunter, Creature EnthusiastNew MexicoIcrontian
I find it funny that the attempt at Xhul'horac where we brought him down to 0-1% scored better then the attempt where we actually killed him.
Also that fight in general makes me genuinely pissed off.
Another thought, I've found that if my HPS is high, then that either means that there is a lot of raid wide damage (Zakun) or strong single target damage (Socrethar) in the fight, or people are messing up. This is because there is a little ramp time to my heals, so usually Fluer or Taoran have the situation under control before I can do anything. If not then they're preoccupied mechanics wise, there is some debuff or something that requires all available healers (Tyrant, Socrethar,) or lot of unnecessary damage going out. Also I'm not calling anyone out or something like that, just analyzing my own performance.
Or I've got some mechanic duty like on Iskar.
Also Fluer reached 99% on HPS for her gear on a fight (Socrethar.) yay!
@RahnalH102 said:
Another thought, I've found that if my HPS is high, then that either means that there is a lot of raid wide damage (Zakun) or strong single target damage (Socrethar) in the fight, or people are messing up. This is because there is a little ramp time to my heals, so usually Fluer or Taoran have the situation under control before I can do anything. If not then they're preoccupied mechanics wise, there is some debuff or something that requires all available healers (Tyrant, Socrethar,) or lot of unnecessary damage going out. Also I'm not calling anyone out or something like that, just analyzing my own performance.
I assume you mean your overhealing, not HPS?
Do not worry about your overhealing. You touched on it just now: every healer has significant differences in things like ramp time or healing style - damn near all your overhealing is coming from HoT ticks, in fact, your regular healing is on point. In reality, logging is one of the more difficult ways to analyze healing - if your raiders are well geared, you'll find yourself with low healing numbers. If they're poorly geared, you'll find yourself overhealing in an attempt to predict spikes. Unnecessary damage that you yourself take make you look better, because you heal yourself.
Unfortunately, logs do not tell how well you predicted damage, how well you used your mana, how cleverly you made a choice between efficient healing and healing throughput, how accurate your healing rotation, or - most importantly - how well you work with your other healing teammates. For instance, purposefully lowering your HPS to conserve cooldowns because you correctly recognize that your teammates are on a high part of their rotations but will need your assistance in a few seconds is crucial... but that never looks good on logs, does it?
I watch the raid frames carefully (far more carefully than I should, actually, it's taking a toll on my own performance!), and I can inform you with great confidence that you are performing magnificently.
1
RahnalH102the Green Devout, Veteran Monster Hunter, Creature EnthusiastNew MexicoIcrontian
edited September 2015
I wasn't looking down on my performance, just stating on observation I noticed.
Looking back at it, I realize I wrote a long winded "duh" statement that could be better simply stated as the following:
"My healing numbers are high when they should be."
Edit: Corrected some numbers. Was remembering them from last expansion.
For the sake of discussion:
I do mean my HPS. Though I understand how that intertwines with my overhealing. My Renewing Mist (small HoT) is, I believe, one of if not the weakest HoTs in the game on it's own. None of my other healers are at 100 currently so I can't for sure. It's strength comes from it's sister spell Uplift. I can only cast Uplift if Renewing Mist is on at least one target. When cast, all affected targets get healed for a reasonable amount. When I place Renewing Mist, it starts with 3 charges and the remaining charges will seek out the nearest, most injured person each tick. So depending on my Haste, the full cast should spread within 3 seconds and each charge lasts for 20 seconds. So ideally I need to send those out 4-5 seconds before raidwide damage goes off. If I know a ton of people will be affected by the damage I'll cast Thunderbrew Tea which will increase the charges to 5 instead of 3 for the first cast. So then about 5-6 seconds for optimal distribution. Then I spam Uplift as best as I can as the damage rolls out. If I'm set up right, I can only do that 4 times in a row over 4-6 seconds before having to startover. If you check a good Mistweaver's data on Skada or whatever, you should see uplift in the top 3 if not first in healing done by their spells. So potentially a lot of overhealing buildup while I get that ramping.
Revival is the raid cooldown.
For intense single target or regular "tanks are the only ones getting hit" bits then I target them with Soothing Mist a channeled medium level HoT that has 2 chaining abilities: Surging Mist (big direct heal) and Enveloping Mist (very strong HoT.) Both of these spells can be cast while I'm channeling Soothing Mist. I like to think of it as I place a healing tether on my target with my left hand, and should they need more healing I can pelt them with it from my right.
Life Cocoon is the single target cooldown. Thunderbrew Tea is raid or single target cooldown depending on what ability I choose after I cast it.
That's basic Mistweaver healing as I know it. A lot of prep so you're ready for the big stuff should it be needed.
I don't think you suck at tanking; I think it's really difficult to tank and raid lead. We need you as a healer
I'd love to tank; I think I can do it. I'm definitely getting better and I'm willing to gear more and go for it. I'm 673 right now and I'm gonna go hard on gear for him. The only downside is: I'd have to bench my main
If anybody else would like to volunteer to tank, let's talk.
1
RahnalH102the Green Devout, Veteran Monster Hunter, Creature EnthusiastNew MexicoIcrontian
I'm willing to learn if it means we perform better as a whole. I haven't tanked anything on a serious level in awhile though (early Cataclysm).
Brewmaster tanking is fun and one of the first things I had to wrap my head around is that moving around slightly is key (I come from warrior tanking). Those health orbs you poop out (Monk poop) and managing your elusive brew and purifying brew is key.
It's quite a lot different than either dps or heals, as well. Watching not just your positioning but the positioning of everyone else AND the boss timers is pretty key. One thing that made @tiberiuslazarus such a damn good tank was exactly this sort of vigilance - he would NOTICE someone out of position, and turn the boss/do something sneaky to save that person.
0
SazbeanPaladins. Lawful good & violent about it.Chelsea, MIIcrontian
I'm happy to run anyone thru LFRs for tank practice. Just let me know.
0
SazbeanPaladins. Lawful good & violent about it.Chelsea, MIIcrontian
You can definitely tell the bosses we have on farm versus new attempts...
0
SazbeanPaladins. Lawful good & violent about it.Chelsea, MIIcrontian
Oy -- i apparently sucked at active mitigation on the glaive combos even tho I thought I had something up -- my timing must have been off (I was also lagging so maybe that was the problem).
0
RahnalH102the Green Devout, Veteran Monster Hunter, Creature EnthusiastNew MexicoIcrontian
I've been practicing in the Proving Grounds and am gold tank now. I'll need to partially relearn fights now.
No other 'on use' damage debuffs used, that I can see.
Mirste:
Shield of the Righteous uses: 68; uptime: 45.7%
Divine Protection uses: 5; uptime: 6.1% (lol 0.1% combat log sig figs)
Ardent Defender uses: 2; uptime 3%
Guardian of Ancient Kings uses: 1, uptime 1%
Tablet of Turnbuckle Teamwork Trinket (on-use) uses: 2, uptime: 6.1%
Sanctus (legendary ring) uses: 1, uptime: 2.3%
Sacred Shield: 91%
BPS: 3294
APS: 4236
HrPS: ~28k
I have my major (like 40% or something) mitigation (SotR) up almost 50% of the fight - skewed toward when I'm tanking the boss - compared to your 12.2% (making clear you're using Word of Glory instead). I pop a defensive cooldown immediately after I pick up the boss from you, and Divine Protection any time Hellfire Meteor Swarm Lol is out (and I remember to use it... so I'm not doing well). I have about 10% less uptime on Sacred Shield than you.
My immediate thoughts:
-You use Word of Glory WAY more than I do, but that should INCREASE your healing required per second (you're healing yourself), and should BADLY decrease your BPS (because you're not using SotR)... Indeed, your BPS is SLIGHTLY less than mine (so I'm doing better blocking), but your required HPS is WAY lower than mine (you still require fewer heals)! I cannot imagine a world in which WoG is better... but I can't rule it out, because whatever you're doing is working.
-You have a 10% better uptime on Sacred Shield. Is this REALLY responsible for a 2.7k APS increase?! Do I really just need to be better about this one ability?
So I turned to find one of the lowest HrPS paladins for our ilvl and comparable gear:
Now, he's working with a priest, so I expect his APS to be through the roof. Nonetheless, HrPS should be the correct metric here. This brings me to some irritating conclusions:
-HE'S NOT WORD OF GLORYING. He's using SotR the same way I do!
-His sacred shield usage is on par with mine. You're AMAZING at sacred shield, but dropping it 10% didn't seem to fuck him over that badly.
So I don't understand. I'm doing the same thing that the top bracket guys are doing, I've studied the math behind SotR vs WoG and it supports what they're doing, I'm even using one MORE cooldown than this guy used on his kill (though my CDs aren't as strong). By all rights, I should be beating the pants off of you in terms of HrPS... but you are kicking my ASS. wtf gives, man?
When I look over the 'damage taken,' it doesn't look like I'm standing in bad any more than you... what is it? What are you doing? WHY ARE YOU HOLDING OUT ON ME?!
Comments
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/k7hFDAyMRXT18PJv/
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/combatlog/eeb652ba-432e-4f22-9cbc-b16dc6fb7eae/overview
Remember, running askmrrobot client is everyone's friend, even if you don't use it.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/chgqB136kWmAK4yY/
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/combatlog/60ecdc50-3ac4-4e44-8cc0-dae54e3975b9/overview
These are always fascinating to look at.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/GX18Lk9aQMtHbfvh/
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/combatlog/b47cf653-ded3-4e75-994a-49df88357912/overview
Yeesh. We have... a LOT of room for improvement.
Damn dude. I switched specs, my DPS on average is higher than it used to be, I'm #3 DPS in the raid, but I'm only doing 12th percentile damage for 699 shadow priests. I mean, I know my gear stats aren't optimized for my new spec at all, but that's just inexcusable. Blegh.
I'm also pretty far down there. It's a far cry from fights where I was in high percentiles as a healer... My cooldown management is something that I am constantly trying to figure out.
On which fight, socrethar? Where I have you dealing with interrupts and ghosts? Or xhul horrac, where I have you soaking black holes and kiting ranged mobs?
Zakuun, Iskar, and A Butt Tuba would be the best estimates if percentile is what you're aiming for.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6vLnYjfmNaPcrCtF/
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/combatlog/666824b6-7087-49c9-8569-20c6cdf53507/overview
I find it funny that the attempt at Xhul'horac where we brought him down to 0-1% scored better then the attempt where we actually killed him.
Also that fight in general makes me genuinely pissed off.
Another thought, I've found that if my HPS is high, then that either means that there is a lot of raid wide damage (Zakun) or strong single target damage (Socrethar) in the fight, or people are messing up. This is because there is a little ramp time to my heals, so usually Fluer or Taoran have the situation under control before I can do anything. If not then they're preoccupied mechanics wise, there is some debuff or something that requires all available healers (Tyrant, Socrethar,) or lot of unnecessary damage going out. Also I'm not calling anyone out or something like that, just analyzing my own performance.
Or I've got some mechanic duty like on Iskar.
Also Fluer reached 99% on HPS for her gear on a fight (Socrethar.) yay!
We're doing better on pre-pots but I still see SOME GODDAMNED SLACKERS
Damn @Aalonz your DPS is 10/10. Fan-fucking-tastic.
I assume you mean your overhealing, not HPS?
Do not worry about your overhealing. You touched on it just now: every healer has significant differences in things like ramp time or healing style - damn near all your overhealing is coming from HoT ticks, in fact, your regular healing is on point. In reality, logging is one of the more difficult ways to analyze healing - if your raiders are well geared, you'll find yourself with low healing numbers. If they're poorly geared, you'll find yourself overhealing in an attempt to predict spikes. Unnecessary damage that you yourself take make you look better, because you heal yourself.
Unfortunately, logs do not tell how well you predicted damage, how well you used your mana, how cleverly you made a choice between efficient healing and healing throughput, how accurate your healing rotation, or - most importantly - how well you work with your other healing teammates. For instance, purposefully lowering your HPS to conserve cooldowns because you correctly recognize that your teammates are on a high part of their rotations but will need your assistance in a few seconds is crucial... but that never looks good on logs, does it?
I watch the raid frames carefully (far more carefully than I should, actually, it's taking a toll on my own performance!), and I can inform you with great confidence that you are performing magnificently.
I wasn't looking down on my performance, just stating on observation I noticed.
Looking back at it, I realize I wrote a long winded "duh" statement that could be better simply stated as the following:
"My healing numbers are high when they should be."
Edit: Corrected some numbers. Was remembering them from last expansion.
For the sake of discussion:
I do mean my HPS. Though I understand how that intertwines with my overhealing. My Renewing Mist (small HoT) is, I believe, one of if not the weakest HoTs in the game on it's own. None of my other healers are at 100 currently so I can't for sure. It's strength comes from it's sister spell Uplift. I can only cast Uplift if Renewing Mist is on at least one target. When cast, all affected targets get healed for a reasonable amount. When I place Renewing Mist, it starts with 3 charges and the remaining charges will seek out the nearest, most injured person each tick. So depending on my Haste, the full cast should spread within 3 seconds and each charge lasts for 20 seconds. So ideally I need to send those out 4-5 seconds before raidwide damage goes off. If I know a ton of people will be affected by the damage I'll cast Thunderbrew Tea which will increase the charges to 5 instead of 3 for the first cast. So then about 5-6 seconds for optimal distribution. Then I spam Uplift as best as I can as the damage rolls out. If I'm set up right, I can only do that 4 times in a row over 4-6 seconds before having to startover. If you check a good Mistweaver's data on Skada or whatever, you should see uplift in the top 3 if not first in healing done by their spells. So potentially a lot of overhealing buildup while I get that ramping.
Revival is the raid cooldown.
For intense single target or regular "tanks are the only ones getting hit" bits then I target them with Soothing Mist a channeled medium level HoT that has 2 chaining abilities: Surging Mist (big direct heal) and Enveloping Mist (very strong HoT.) Both of these spells can be cast while I'm channeling Soothing Mist. I like to think of it as I place a healing tether on my target with my left hand, and should they need more healing I can pelt them with it from my right.
Life Cocoon is the single target cooldown. Thunderbrew Tea is raid or single target cooldown depending on what ability I choose after I cast it.
That's basic Mistweaver healing as I know it. A lot of prep so you're ready for the big stuff should it be needed.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CfhqnwkA4yZXdGVp/
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/combatlog/81dbf152-973f-492f-9fc6-3601fafe2656/overview
I really fucking suck at tanking. Dammit.
I don't think you suck at tanking; I think it's really difficult to tank and raid lead. We need you as a healer
I'd love to tank; I think I can do it. I'm definitely getting better and I'm willing to gear more and go for it. I'm 673 right now and I'm gonna go hard on gear for him. The only downside is: I'd have to bench my main
If anybody else would like to volunteer to tank, let's talk.
I'm willing to learn if it means we perform better as a whole. I haven't tanked anything on a serious level in awhile though (early Cataclysm).
Brewmaster tanking is fun and one of the first things I had to wrap my head around is that moving around slightly is key (I come from warrior tanking). Those health orbs you poop out (Monk poop) and managing your elusive brew and purifying brew is key.
It's quite a lot different than either dps or heals, as well. Watching not just your positioning but the positioning of everyone else AND the boss timers is pretty key. One thing that made @tiberiuslazarus such a damn good tank was exactly this sort of vigilance - he would NOTICE someone out of position, and turn the boss/do something sneaky to save that person.
I'm happy to run anyone thru LFRs for tank practice. Just let me know.
You can definitely tell the bosses we have on farm versus new attempts...
Oy -- i apparently sucked at active mitigation on the glaive combos even tho I thought I had something up -- my timing must have been off (I was also lagging so maybe that was the problem).
I've been practicing in the Proving Grounds and am gold tank now. I'll need to partially relearn fights now.
THE GOLDEN TANK
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/tLjv29xaGRYPgzCp/
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/combatlog/7ba8c6aa-0f85-4f01-9d86-2d4e1d0df83d/overview
Alright, Maejah.
What in the FUCK am I doing wrong? Why is my BPS+APS still so much less than yours? Why do I require an entire 6k more HPS than you?!
Picking my best fight on Mannoroth and comparing you and I:
Maejah:
Shield of the Righteous uses: 27; uptime: 12.2%
Divine Protection uses: 5; uptime: 6%
Sacred Shield: 98.2%
BPS: 2848
APS: 6978
HrPS: ~22k
No other 'on use' damage debuffs used, that I can see.
Mirste:
Shield of the Righteous uses: 68; uptime: 45.7%
Divine Protection uses: 5; uptime: 6.1% (lol 0.1% combat log sig figs)
Ardent Defender uses: 2; uptime 3%
Guardian of Ancient Kings uses: 1, uptime 1%
Tablet of Turnbuckle Teamwork Trinket (on-use) uses: 2, uptime: 6.1%
Sanctus (legendary ring) uses: 1, uptime: 2.3%
Sacred Shield: 91%
BPS: 3294
APS: 4236
HrPS: ~28k
I have my major (like 40% or something) mitigation (SotR) up almost 50% of the fight - skewed toward when I'm tanking the boss - compared to your 12.2% (making clear you're using Word of Glory instead). I pop a defensive cooldown immediately after I pick up the boss from you, and Divine Protection any time Hellfire Meteor Swarm Lol is out (and I remember to use it... so I'm not doing well). I have about 10% less uptime on Sacred Shield than you.
My immediate thoughts:
-You use Word of Glory WAY more than I do, but that should INCREASE your healing required per second (you're healing yourself), and should BADLY decrease your BPS (because you're not using SotR)... Indeed, your BPS is SLIGHTLY less than mine (so I'm doing better blocking), but your required HPS is WAY lower than mine (you still require fewer heals)! I cannot imagine a world in which WoG is better... but I can't rule it out, because whatever you're doing is working.
-You have a 10% better uptime on Sacred Shield. Is this REALLY responsible for a 2.7k APS increase?! Do I really just need to be better about this one ability?
So I turned to find one of the lowest HrPS paladins for our ilvl and comparable gear:
Parkmetre:
SotR uses: 68; uptime: 52%
Divine Protection uses: 5; uptime: 6.9%
Ardent Defender uses: 2; uptime 3.4%
Sanctus uses: 5; uptime 12.7%
Sacred Shield: 92.6%
BPS: 1000
APS: ~15000
HrPS: 19500
Now, he's working with a priest, so I expect his APS to be through the roof. Nonetheless, HrPS should be the correct metric here. This brings me to some irritating conclusions:
-HE'S NOT WORD OF GLORYING. He's using SotR the same way I do!
-His sacred shield usage is on par with mine. You're AMAZING at sacred shield, but dropping it 10% didn't seem to fuck him over that badly.
So I don't understand. I'm doing the same thing that the top bracket guys are doing, I've studied the math behind SotR vs WoG and it supports what they're doing, I'm even using one MORE cooldown than this guy used on his kill (though my CDs aren't as strong). By all rights, I should be beating the pants off of you in terms of HrPS... but you are kicking my ASS. wtf gives, man?
When I look over the 'damage taken,' it doesn't look like I'm standing in bad any more than you... what is it? What are you doing? WHY ARE YOU HOLDING OUT ON ME?!
tl;dr, Maejah is way better tank than me
AHHH
I found one of the culprits (I can't imagine it's the whole reason, I'm pretty sure you're Just Better [tm] than I am):
It's your 2-set. It absorbs for as much as your sacred shield does. IT'S LITERALLY DOUBLING YOUR SACRED SHIELD.
An interesting read on healing and meters.
@RahnalH102 that is a good read.