Mazda 6 i-ELOOP recuperative braking system

primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' BoopinDetroit, MI Icrontian
edited March 2015 in Science & Tech

I was having a conversation with @CannonFodder and @Pragtastic last night about cars I'm potentially looking at. One of the vehicles on my short list is a Mazda 6, which gets 40mpg highway with something (awkwardly) named i-ELOOP.

The article linked there explains it. I've decided I'm not buying another hybrid due to the huge price premium ($8K over non-Hybrid in my Fusion), so a gas engine that gets the same mileage is pretty compelling.

Zanthian

Comments

  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian

    The TL;DR is that the car decouples the alternator when it doesn't need it, which is one less motor to turn with gas, which increases efficiency.

  • That's not a Ford.

    primesuspect_kBasilRahnalH102
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian

    Believe it or not, as a Detroiter, it does weigh on me. Buying an American car is actually a pretty big deal around here. It's a thing. I'm not 100% sold on the Mazda yet, but it's in the running.

  • _k_k P-Town, Texas Icrontian

    carsdirect said:
    For North America, production is handled by two facilities that are co-owned by Ford, with one located in Flat Rock Michigan, and the other in Claycomo, Missouri. Production in the Claycomo facility consists solely of the Mazda Tribute, while the Auto Alliance International handles production of the Mazda 6 for the North American market.

  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited March 2015

    That article is out of date. Ford and Mazda ended their manufacturing partnership in 2013. The Flat Rock plant now builds the Ford Fusion and the Mustang.

    Source: I drive by and they have a 200-foot massive mural on the side of the factory that boldly and proudly proclaims what they build there. It used to be the Mazda 6 and now it's the Fusion on that banner.

    Source 2: The plant's website

  • ZanthianZanthian Mitey Worrier Icrontian

    I have a fondness for the current generation of Mazda vehicles. They are all fun to drive, good on gas, and don't break the bank. Give it a test drive and report back.

    I currently lease a 2014 Mazda 3 S Touring. I have been a very happy camper with the choice over a year into the lease.

    _k
  • HeroHero formerly known as XGPHero Icrontian

    I have a friend from Detroit who said when he was growing up, any foreign car was likely to get its windows smashed in... Is that still a problem?

  • drasnordrasnor Starship Operator Hawthorne, CA Icrontian

    This system doesn't really save you anything. The alternator only develops as much load on the engine as being drawn out as electrical power less dynamo efficiency losses; the fact that you're using that power to charge a capacitor instead of a battery is immaterial. You're taking another efficiency hit on the DC-DC conversion as well. My 2006 Civic came off the lot at about 38 mpg real world and is down to about 32 at this age; the only fancy stuff on it is VTEC variable timing in efficiency configuration. I would hope that almost ten years later you'd be able to buy an uncompromised high-efficiency powerplant from an American company without wasting money on gimmicks.

  • mertesnmertesn I am Bobby Miller Yukon, OK Icrontian

    @drasnor said:
    My 2006 Civic came off the lot at about 38 mpg real world and is down to about 32 at this age; the only fancy stuff on it is VTEC variable timing in efficiency configuration. I would hope that almost ten years later you'd be able to buy an uncompromised high-efficiency powerplant from an American company without wasting money on gimmicks.

    When I look at the two cars side-by-side as a consumer who doesn't necessarily understand all of the engineering that goes on, here's what I see: the Mazda 6 is larger, almost 550 lbs heavier, and has a more powerful engine, yet gets about the same mileage as your car when it was new.

    The i-ELOOP magic widget thingy might not play an enormous role in the fuel economy, but it's getting tougher to make efficiency improvements without resorting to technology outside the engine.

  • SonorousSonorous F@H Fanatic US Icrontian

    Test drove the new 6 in September of last year and I really liked it. The 2.5 was pretty spunky and smooth, but 4 cylinder engines are noisy. The handling was far better than anything I had driven that day from the like of Hyundai, Honda and Toyota. The 6 didn't suffer from the electronic steering numbness that Toyota had. The interior was a nice place to be and had all of the bells and whistles I could ever need. The Sonata was a close second to the 6 and was what my Mom had ultimately decided to buy.

    Disclaimer: I own a 2010 Mazda 6 and may now be partial to the brand.

  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited March 2015

    @XGPHero said:
    I have a friend from Detroit who said when he was growing up, any foreign car was likely to get its windows smashed in... Is that still a problem?

    That's always been an urban legend in most ways: There was a union hall in the city with a parking lot that had a sign that said "Ford, GM, or Chrysler vehicles ONLY - we cannot be responsible for what happens to your FOREIGN CAR if you park here!" etc. There were rumors of foreign cars getting their windows smashed at those union hall parking lots.

    It was kind of one of those jokes that made the rounds to scare outsiders a bit, like a joke at their expense. I've owned many foreign cars in my life. Never have I had a single negative experience based on driving one around Detroit (even at union halls, whom I've counted among clients in my past life as a business owner). I was even a union worker driving my Toyota to my union job. Nobody really cares so much that they would actually damage your vehicle. The most you have to deal with is sneers and shitty comments.

  • ardichokeardichoke Icrontian

    @XGPHero said:
    I have a friend from Detroit who said when he was growing up, any foreign car was likely to get its windows smashed in... Is that still a problem?

    It's a problem the same way dropbears are a problem in Australia.

    georgehprimesuspectTushonpigflipper
  • georgehgeorgeh Canton, MI Icrontian
    edited March 2015

    @XGPHero said:
    I have a friend from Detroit who said when he was growing up, any foreign car was likely to get its windows smashed in... Is that still a problem?

    I currently have an American car, but from 1998 to 2011 I drove Japanese cars. In that time one guy yelled at me from his pickup truck once, shortly after the great recession started and the automakers were looking like they could go under.

    But I also took this picture a mile from my house:

    Edit: I wonder if they would allow me to park a Subaru Legacy built in Indiana...

  • AlexDeGruvenAlexDeGruven Wut? Meechigan Icrontian

    I would have protested when I drove my Camaro, since it was built in Canada.

    Also, feel free to point and laugh at any recent Chrysler vehicles in that lot.

  • mertesnmertesn I am Bobby Miller Yukon, OK Icrontian

    Don't confuse them with facts... Nobody cares that "foreign" cars are built here and "domestic" are built abroad. Nor do they care to understand that these foreign car companies employ large numbers of people...

  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited March 2015

    But not here. It's about Detroit jobs. You can tell me all the cars that are built elsewhere in the US but when your entire neighborhood is decimated by hundreds of foreclosures because the factory production left, it doesn't matter if it went to Ohio, Tennessee, or Japan... What matters is it left here. It's not so much about "Built in America" as it is "I support employing my neighbors with my purchase"

  • georgehgeorgeh Canton, MI Icrontian

    @primesuspect said:
    It's not so much about "Built in America" as it is "I support employing my neighbors with my purchase"

    My neighbor, who therefore also lives a mile from where that picture was taken, works for the Toyota office in Plymouth, MI (as opposed to the Toyota Tech Center in Ann Arbor). It's complicated these days. My other neighbor is retired from Fiat-Chrysler and I have no idea if they're American or not.

  • AlexDeGruvenAlexDeGruven Wut? Meechigan Icrontian
    edited March 2015

    @primesuspect said:
    But not here. It's about Detroit jobs. You can tell me all the cars that are built elsewhere in the US but when your entire neighborhood is decimated by hundreds of foreclosures because the factory production left, it doesn't matter if it went to Ohio, Tennessee, or Japan... What matters is it left here. It's not so much about "Built in America" as it is "I support employing my neighbors with my purchase"

    This is the truth. Unfortunately, far too few of the "rah rah, 'murica!" people understand the nuances in production.

    georgeh
  • mertesnmertesn I am Bobby Miller Yukon, OK Icrontian

    @primesuspect said:
    But not here. It's about Detroit jobs. You can tell me all the cars that are built elsewhere in the US but when your entire neighborhood is decimated by hundreds of foreclosures because the factory production left, it doesn't matter if it went to Ohio, Tennessee, or Japan... What matters is it left here. It's not so much about "Built in America" as it is "I support employing my neighbors with my purchase"

    I completely agree with you here. I was mainly speaking about places like Oklahoma where "BUY 'MURKIN" is a way of life. Hell, even the TOYOTA dealer tried to push me to buy a Mustang when I traded cars last time (I declined).

  • I'm not sure if I dislodged the thread with the lulz gif, or if Drasnor did it by shating on the engineering concept leaving nothing to say about it.

  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian

    I mean, basically it was a continuation of a mumble conversation with Eli and Ryan. Anything goes at that point :pirate:

  • mertesnmertesn I am Bobby Miller Yukon, OK Icrontian

    It does sound like a really cool bit of technology

  • KarmaKarma Likes yoga Icrontian

    @AlexDeGruven said:
    This is the truth. Unfortunately, far too few of the "rah rah, 'murica!" people understand [anything]

    Fixed it for you.

    Real talk any impact production, sales of anything has on any given economy is incredibly complex and hard to grasp given the global trade of labor and goods.

  • doabarrellrolldoabarrellroll San Jose, CA Icrontian

    @primesuspect said:
    The TL;DR is that the car decouples the alternator when it doesn't need it, which is one less motor to turn with gas, which increases efficiency.

    Most alternators are so efficient now that even not using to draw power wouldn't really yield much, probably 1-2hp which translates to 0.lotsofzeros1 mpg improvement.

    Toyota did this with an OIL PUMP, which I still don't understand. They developed this electric oil pump that runs on the same current as the fuel pump supposedly in an effort to eek out that much more fuel economy.

  • doabarrellrolldoabarrellroll San Jose, CA Icrontian

    To be fair, any car built in America actively supports the economy. Pretty much every entry model from Toyota, Nissan, VW, Honda, Mercedes, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Subaru have FATP in the USA. I imagine this is mostly due to the tremendous shipping costs associated with large items like cars.

    Always reminds me of Gung Ho and that company "Assan" trying to build cars in the USA for the first time. Great movie if you haven't seen it.

    _k
  • SazbeanSazbean Paladins. Lawful good & violent about it. Chelsea, MI Icrontian

    When I interned with Ford in high school (long ago in a galaxy far far away), you could only park in the closer lots if you had a Ford. However, my husband, who works for GM currently, said there are all sorts of cars in the GM lot (some of this is because they have a lot of contractors).

    I had a mazda cx7 which I really liked until the turbo failed 20k miles after the warranty -- my experience lately has been that Ford and GM have better warranties on their cars (I have a Ford Escape (bought before Aaron started at GM) and a Cadillac ATS) -- so you might want to check on that as well. If you're buying the car vs leasing it, it might be worthwhile to get an extended warranty if you put a lot of miles on the car.

  • doabarrellrolldoabarrellroll San Jose, CA Icrontian

    @Sazbean said:
    When I interned with Ford in high school (long ago in a galaxy far far away), you could only park in the closer lots if you had a Ford. However, my husband, who works for GM currently, said there are all sorts of cars in the GM lot (some of this is because they have a lot of contractors).

    I had a mazda cx7 which I really liked until the turbo failed 20k miles after the warranty -- my experience lately has been that Ford and GM have better warranties on their cars (I have a Ford Escape (bought before Aaron started at GM) and a Cadillac ATS) -- so you might want to check on that as well. If you're buying the car vs leasing it, it might be worthwhile to get an extended warranty if you put a lot of miles on the car.

    Yea, the turbos on that generation of Mazdas were absolutely horrid, leaking all kinds of oil into the turbine. Zoom zoom go Boom boom.

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