HD-enclosure problem

JokkeJokke Bergen, Norway Icrontian
edited November 2007 in Hardware
I recently bought a harddrive enclosure for my Seagate Barracuda 160GB HD. I put the drive in, connected the cables, and plugged it in my USB port. Vista detects it, but needs to install a driver. I first let it do the thing where it scans, before it prompts me to insert a disc. I insert the disk, despite it says the drivers are for win98. The disc is btw about half the size of a normal cd/dvd. It finds the correct driver, and begins to install. Suddenly it stops, and says the driver could not be installed, and nothing else happens. The Drive still doesn't show up in My Computer. I have searched Seagates website for a driver for the HD, but there are none. I do have a driver for the HD, but it is on a floppy, and my laptop doesn't have a floppy drive. I also tried going to the enclosure producers website (www.konigcomputers.info) but it doesn't seem to exist, or it is down. What should I do? When Vista asks for the drivers, what does it mean? Is it for the HD itself, or for the enclosure, or the USB cable? I though Windows after 98 was all "plug-and-play".

Comments

  • stoopidstoopid Albany, NY New
    edited November 2007
    Likely the enclosure prompting for drivers, although there's still a chance it's seeing the drive but the HD is malfunctioning/dead. Is this drive from a working system?

    One suggestion is to reboot and reconnect the drive, then check the disk manager (click start-->run, type compmgmt.msc). The drive may be detected by windows but wants to assign it a drive letter already in use. Check to see if the drive shows up in the disk manager list and whether there's a drive letter assigned. You can assign or change drive letters there. Be careful not to change the wrong drive...
  • JokkeJokke Bergen, Norway Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    The drive was working the last time I used it, although it is a while ago. I took it out of my comp bout 3 months ago, then in working condition. It has been wrapped in several layers of bubble-plastic until I put it in the external cabinet.

    The drive does not show up in disk manager, put it is shown in device manager as "unknown unit", with the message "The drivers for this device is not installed. (code 28)

    I suddenly realised that no matter what, this is in the wrong forum, dunno why i posted in general software..
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    thread moved

    ;)
  • stoopidstoopid Albany, NY New
    edited November 2007
    There's no reason the OS should need a driver to use the hard drive, and most USB enclosures are plug and play. My guess is that the drive is defunct. I would try another enclosure to be sure (not that I expect you to have another one, but it's really the only way to be sure). You could also add it internally as a slave and see if you still have the same problem.
  • JokkeJokke Bergen, Norway Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    Could it be that Vista is being a bitch (as with so much else)? I agree that it should be as straightforward as just insert and use, but it obviously isn't. It can find my memory card (Olympus xD) just fine through my memory card slot, and transfer files between them. As for another enclosure, you're right, I don't have one. I don't have another HD either, for that matter, so I can't really test it... How do I add it as a slave?
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    64bit vista?
  • JokkeJokke Bergen, Norway Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    Nope, regular 32 bit. Now, I am renting this computer from school, and don't have full admin control, but i doubt that'll have anything to say, right? Jeez, I'm grasping very thin straws here...
  • stoopidstoopid Albany, NY New
    edited November 2007
    Jokke wrote:
    Nope, regular 32 bit. Now, I am renting this computer from school, and don't have full admin control, but i doubt that'll have anything to say, right? Jeez, I'm grasping very thin straws here...

    That could have everything to do with it. In Vista in particular it's very picky about user rights. Add to that the school could further limit your control on that computer through group policies. You may have found the answer yourself :).

    I would call and ask them if their group policy allows for you to add/remove hardware and explain the situation. You may need to have someone from the school login remotely and install it as an admin or take the computer and external drive to them.
  • JokkeJokke Bergen, Norway Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    I no longer have reason to think user rights has anything to do with it. I went down to the store I bought it from, and they got the exact same problem as me on their computer running Vista. XP on the other hand, worked completely fine! It found the HD, and could access it, no drivers needed. The guy in the store said it could be incompitable with Vista, and he took it in and he was gonna contact the manufacturer. He, and I, will know more on friday. I don't understand how it can be incompitable with Vista. USB is USB, no matter what, or am I missing something?
  • stoopidstoopid Albany, NY New
    edited November 2007
    Jokke wrote:
    USB is USB, no matter what, or am I missing something?

    That's my thinking as well, which is why the permissions thing seemed/seems like an explanation. We can only assume they were logged in as admins on the Vista box they were testing with.

    However, a device is a device and does require some configuration with the OS. Most are standard controllers which is why it's plug and play. This is not a stead-fast rule. I have needed to load usb drivers for external usb adapters for numerous devices, even in XP.

    The other option is to try and run the device setup off the disk that came with it in XP compatibility mode. Copy the contents of the CD to a folder on the hard drive and try this:

    http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/using-windows-vista-compatibility-mode/

    I don't hold out much hope of this working since the installer is probably not the cause of the driver failure. Likely that the XP driver included just doesn't work in Vista. The tech's suggestion of contacting the manufacturer of the enclosure is not a bad one.
  • JokkeJokke Bergen, Norway Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    The driver included is not for XP, it's for Win98/MAC.
  • stoopidstoopid Albany, NY New
    edited November 2007
    Jokke wrote:
    The driver included is not for XP, it's for Win98/MAC.

    That would definitely indicate they expect the enclosure to be plug and play compatible. Sounds like a Vista issue then. :hair:
  • JokkeJokke Bergen, Norway Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    Ok, so I got it back from the store today. They have tested it with XP, where they have no problems. They have tested it with vista basic, and had the same problem as me. They have tested it with another vista machine, also running Basic, and the HD installed just fine, no problems or errors whatsoever. They were as surprised as me. They told me to install the latest updates for Vista, which I now have done. Still no change, it gives me the same errors as before. I'm at a loss here. I really don't understand this.
  • stoopidstoopid Albany, NY New
    edited November 2007
    Maybe there's a hidden device? Might need to do some more in-depth removal of an initial mis-detection of the hardware.

    "You can view and delete or modify hidden devices by:
    1. Openning Device Manager. (I usually right-click on My Computer, select Properties, select the Hardware tab, then select Device Manager.)
    2. Select View and check "Show hidden devices"
    3. Hidden devices will appear below with the others and can be modified."

    If they won't uninstall you can remove them from the registry:

    http://www.tech-recipes.com/windows_installation_tips504.html
    http://www.daniweb.com/forums/thread7700.html
    1. Click Start and click Run. Type regedit and click OK. The Registry Editor window will open.

    2. Go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Enum\USB.

    3. Highlight and delete all the VID_.... entries for usb devices that you cannot identify. [stoopid: Be careful! :p ]

    You may not have permssion to delete keys, do the following.
    Permissions may be set allowing the deletion of the VID_ entries by following the steps below:

    a) Right-click the key to be deleted, and then click Permissions. The VID_... Permissions window will open.
    b) With Everyone highlighted in the Group or User name section, select Full Control in the Permissions section.
    c) Click Apply, and then click OK.

    5. Restart your compuer.


    I'm at a loss because of the arbitrary nature of the problem.
  • JokkeJokke Bergen, Norway Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    Ok, if I was stumped before, now I'm even more stumped. In a last, desperate attempt to bring the HD back to life, I flipped the whole enclosure over, so it was lying upside down. I plug in the USB-cable, and voila! Vista detects the HD, I can access it and transfer files!!! WTF? Because it is lying upside-down??? I'm speechless..
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    You are just perpetuating the perception of Vista that many of us hold!

    So, what you're saying is that Vista is bass ackwards, upside down, bloated, but highly aesthetically pleasing OS? :bigggrin:
  • JokkeJokke Bergen, Norway Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    I'm saying that in order for Vista to detect my external HD, the HD has to be lying upside down...
  • KentigernKentigern Milton Keynes UK
    edited November 2007
    Leonardo wrote:
    You are just perpetuating the perception of Vista that many of us hold!

    So, what you're saying is that Vista is bass ackwards, upside down, bloated, but highly aesthetically pleasing OS? :bigggrin:

    Priceless LOL
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    Jokke, in all seriousness, you may have a hard drive that is starting to fail mechanically. Just last night I tossed out a hard drive that clattered and buzzed in it's normal orientation, but ran smoothly when on its side. It had already gone bad. It would detect with the BIOS, but not with Windows or hard drive diagnostic software.
  • JokkeJokke Bergen, Norway Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    I suspect that too. It's making some seriously weird noises, but I have managed to salvage the most important files, so I don't really care what happens to it anymore. I guess I'll buy a new HD to put in my enclosure.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    If you think the drive 'died' prematurely, you might want to make a test with your next drive: perform some large file transfers; then as quickly as possible remove the drive from the enclosure and see how hot it is. You might be surprised. I have one external enclosure that is really poorly designed. (It was designed to attract cheapskates who cared more about price than engineering.) I drilled large holes in the top and bottom (oriented vertically). Ventilation improved dramatically.
  • JokkeJokke Bergen, Norway Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    Maybe I'll do that with mine. It just has a few holes in the one end. About the new HD, are there anyone who are better than others? I'm looking at a Samsung Spinpoint T166 320GB. My economy doesn't allow me to go higher than 320 GB. I'm also looking at the Western Digital Caviar 320, but a friend of mine tells me that the WD aren't that good.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    Frankly, I really don't see much of a quality difference between new drives. WD went through a troubled period a while back and so did Maxtor. Of course, Maxtor's troubles were bad enough that they became a discount item and Seagate bought them. I don't know if their quality has changed since the Maxtor brand is now owned by Seagate. I have a fairly new Maxtor 500GB drive that runs smooth and fast, without much heat buildup. The part number on the label resolves to a Seagate drive. So, it's really a Seagate drive in Maxtor clothes. I've had drives from all the major manufacturers - well I still do - the only abnormal failure rate in my experience has been Maxtor. In my experience, Hitachi and Seagate have have been my best drives in performance, quiet operation, and durability. I have a couple Samsung drives as well. Nothing wrong with them at all.

    OK, that was a long winded way of me saying that personally I would only avoid buying one brand - Maxtor. And that may be an illogical opinion.
  • stoopidstoopid Albany, NY New
    edited November 2007
    Although it always sucks something's dead, at least we've figured out it wasn't gnomes.

    Leonardo's spot-on with regards to current HD manufacturers - not a lot of difference at this time.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    I upgrade parts all the time, except for hard drives. Since I tend to keep drives longer than other components (and since I run a bunch of computers) I see drives die on a routine basis. No, 'routine' doesn't mean often, it simply means in the normal course of hardware longevity.

    I'm always talking up backups here at Icrontic. I cannot overemphasize: Every hard drive is going to quit working. It's not if, it's when. Backup your data, friends.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    but a friend of mine tells me that the WD aren't that good
    Baloney. Drive brands come and go as far as quality is concerned. The last manufacturer to experience a documented trend in product unreliability was IBM, and they sold their HDD operations to Hitachi, who corrected the problems. As stated in a previous post, I think all the major HDD manufacturers are turning out quality components. For me though, I would probably steer away from Maxtor. But that's just MY personal experience due to a high failure rate of Maxtors I've owned. Someone else's experience with Maxtor might be just the opposite. A couple years ago, I was not very pleased with WD. I thought their drives were buzzy and just not as smooth and fast as Seagate. I've recently added a couple WDs to my computers and I'm very pleased. Really though, a new drive from Seagate, Hitachi, Western Digital - you're getting a good unit. Do though, pay attention to retail warranties. Seagate's, if still five years, trumps everyone else.
  • JokkeJokke Bergen, Norway Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    Does seagate have 5 years warranty? Did they have that in 2003? If so, it's still under warranty...
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    Depends on factors of what the warranty is in the region the drive was sold. Just go to Seagate's site follow the links for warranty and/or RMA. There will be field where you enter the drives model number and serial number to check for warranty status. You can have your answer on eligibility in five minutes or less.
  • JokkeJokke Bergen, Norway Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    A, well, it was out of warranty.. Well, guess it was a faint hope..

    Still a reason to get a new one:D
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited November 2007
    If you find a nice hard drive for a good deal, don't hesitate to buy the drive and enclosure separately.

    The reason I recommend looking for a good drive, even considering the USB interface will bottleneck it, is that the drive may eventually come out of the enclosure and go in your computer. My largest (volume) drives go in my external enclosures and serve as dedicated backups. Eventually the drives are integrated into computers and are replaced by even larger drives.
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