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primesuspect: Apparently The Pirate Bay has lost their

primesuspectprimesuspect Detroit, MI Icrontian
edited Apr 2009 in Technology
Apparently The Pirate Bay has lost their court case, according to @brokep. More news as we get it.

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Comments

  • FelixDeSouzeFelixDeSouze UK New
    edited Apr 2009
    Yeah, I just heard as well.. a year in prison and they are now arguing that google creators should also go to prison. (or something like that)
  • Cliff_ForsterCliff_Forster Baltimore, MD Icrontian
    edited Apr 2009
    "I fight authority, authority always wins"
  • jaredjared College Station, TX
    edited Apr 2009
    Apparently since the case was against them and not TPB itself, the site will continue its normal operations.
  • mas0nmas0n dallas Icrontian
    edited Apr 2009
    The site will continue, downloads will continue, they won't pay their fines, and the appeals will go on for years.
  • ThraxThrax Professional Shill, Pokémaster, Watch Slut Toronto, ON Icrontian
    edited Apr 2009
    Appeal inc.
  • MiracleManSMiracleManS Chambersburg, PA Icrontian
    edited Apr 2009
    I'm confused as to the ruling personally, but thats probably because I'm not from Sweden.
  • MrTRiotMrTRiot Icrontian
    edited Apr 2009
    It's kind of funny. The dude they got running the servers wasn't even in the court room, let alone the country. I highly doubt they can extradite him from Thailand to face evil torrent charges lol
  • chrisWhitechrisWhite Littleton, CO
    edited Apr 2009
    Am I the only one who thinks this is a good thing? Sure, I've downloaded torrents but these days it's so easy to get movies, music and entertainment legally. That's not to say I don't hate the RIAA, MPAA and the like but I also think a lot of piracy is unjustifiable. Also, I do use legit torrents every day and the platform is fantastic. Trent Reznor/NIN and guys like Jonathan Coulton are my heroes for adapting to the new medium and the record labels are killing music every bit as much as piracy ever has but The Pirate Bay isn't the solution to that problem.
  • SnarkasmSnarkasm 's-Hertogenbosch, The Netherlands Icrontian
    edited Apr 2009
    At the same time, The Pirate Bay isn't the cause of that problem. They don't host any content. They're not without their culpability, but the problem didn't start with them, and it won't end with them.
  • chrisWhitechrisWhite Littleton, CO
    edited Apr 2009
    Totally agree, but I think they do stretch the intent of the law a lot, even if they don't stretch the technicalities. But you're right, doesn't start with them and doesn't end with them. But I think this sets a good example as one of the most brazenly pirate resources.
  • _k__k_ P-Town, Texas Icrontian
    edited Apr 2009
    Well the whole reason they are stepping to the sites that host dls for trackers is because their lawsuits against individuals has yielded little to no results. They are slowly stepping up the chain.
  • airbornflghtairbornflght Houston, TX
    edited Apr 2009
    What are they going to do when they get to themselves.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited Apr 2009
    What are they going to do when they get to themselves.
    Best one-liner I've heard in a long time!
  • kryystkryyst Ontario, Canada
    edited Apr 2009
    This is a legal victory on paper only. They've accomplished nothing in the short or long run for that matter. I'll go so far as to say that they've actually hurt the 'stop piracy' mentality more then fixing it.

    First, even though they are slapping jail sentences and large fines on 3 people pirate bay continues as strong as ever. If they managed to shutdown pirate bay, well so what, on to the next torrent site. Shut down enough torrent sites and one of the other current p2p alternatives using encrypted clouds becomes the dominant method.

    The only way to stop massive file sharing is to kill the bandwidth at the ISP levels and that effectively kills the internet.
  • FelixDeSouzeFelixDeSouze UK New
    edited Apr 2009
    kryyst said:
    This is a legal victory on paper only. They've accomplished nothing in the short or long run for that matter. I'll go so far as to say that they've actually hurt the 'stop piracy' mentality more then fixing it.

    First, even though they are slapping jail sentences and large fines on 3 people pirate bay continues as strong as ever. If they managed to shutdown pirate bay, well so what, on to the next torrent site. Shut down enough torrent sites and one of the other current p2p alternatives using encrypted clouds becomes the dominant method.

    The only way to stop massive file sharing is to kill the bandwidth at the ISP levels and that effectively kills the internet.
    Couldn't have said it better myself! :D
  • mondimondi Icrontian
    edited Apr 2009
    kryyst said:

    The only way to stop massive file sharing is to kill the bandwidth at the ISP levels and that effectively kills the internet.
    I personally don't pirate anything because I think it's wrong to take something that doesn't belong to me. Perhaps we should work on that angle instead?

    [ rant ]
    Over the last few days I've heard the usual - "Huge corporations screwing people with high prices / artists getting shafted / only pirate to try out before I buy / not available for months where I am etc etc" excuses over and over again. If people really believed all those, then they would boycott the product, and only consume content directly from artists - compensating them appropriately. However that will never happen. People have this incredible entitlement mentality that overrides all their fancy excuses. They don't want it cheaper / easier - they want it free, and now.

    People also mention the examples of Radiohead / Nine inch Nails and their recent experiments with distribution. Both were incredibly successful, and they are pointed to as some sort of new ideal (although many managed to bitch that Radioheads files were "too low quality"). I fully support these endeavors, but I think both bands are being a little disingenuous. They would simply not have had the same success, had they not had years of backing from the "evil corporations" that they are now railing against. The fact is that most people do not have the resources to put together albums like that, and even if they did - they would not have the years of promotion and distribution that would be necessary for similar success.

    I produce content. I write software, I make art, and I believe that my work has some value. If I publish a something, and someone makes a copy without compensating me, then they have stolen from me. I know that many don't believe that copyright infringement is stealing, and will point to the fact that nothing physical has been lost, but they are wrong. I spend time, money and effort on my work, and if people think that it isn't worth my asking price, then they should do without. They are not entitled to it, whatever rationalization they may choose to offer.

    I'd like to add as a final thought, that I believe that equating piracy with file sharing is being dishonest in its own right. There is a growing contingent trying to link the two, and thus try to argue that the prosecution and attempted shutting down of sites like TPB is some sort of attack on distribution models, rather than an attack on piracy. There is also the now popular "google argument". (You know - because google was created with the the same goals, hosts torrent files, and openly mocks requests for removal of copyrighted content). File sharing is an important part of a connected culture, but we shouldn't pretend that we live in some utopian world where the vast majority of the massive amounts of bandwith consumed by protocols such as bittorrent are being used to spread the latest ubuntu release, it simply isn't true.
    [ /rant ]
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited Apr 2009
    Well said, Mondi; I don't have the energy to say it because we're talking to a huge audience of people with that very mentality, so I thank you for saying it.

    I get mocked quite a bit for my "anti-piracy" leanings, but the above is a large part of why I don't do it.
  • kryystkryyst Ontario, Canada
    edited Apr 2009
    Excellent rant Mondi. But I fail to see your point. People know it's wrong, it's not a myth any more then murder, rape, car jackings or any other crime. People know it's wrong. The difference is that file sharing is easy. It's easy to do, little risk of getting caught and for most it's easy on the concience. Simply because you aren't personally breaking into someone's house and directly effecting them on that same personal level.

    If you want to stop piracy you'll have to hurt the people doing the pirating where it hurts most. Their internet pipe. Trying to kill the source in this particular case is pointless since the source is so far distanced now from being a specific source. The source of internet piracy is just that the Internet. You could try and curb habbits and educate people but lets be realistic, the chances of that happening are minute. Any more then putting out a public service annoucement on stopping any kind of crime.

    So while I do understand your rant, I think everyone understands your rant. It's idealistic thinking. You can't stop crime by clicking your heals and whishing three times. If you are serious about stopping piracy you have to find a way to more effectively punish the people doing the pirating. Which means throttling, caps or per use internet charges like any other utility. If mom suddenly sees a $300 internet bill juniors going to get the beats.
  • edited Apr 2009
    While on the subject of pirating, who here hasn't made a mix tape off the radio back in the 90's and shared it with friends? That's a perfect example of piracy that was thought to be acceptable. Literally every tape deck had two bays and one would record, they even had "high speed dub"! We never heard about audio piracy back then when it was so easy to copy your friends new copy of MC Hammer - Too Legit to Quit. Now all of a sudden it isn't cool to copy CDs or DVDs. If they're having such a problem they need to rethink their business model and somehow take advantage of the new technologies and quit thinking in the past. Software is a different ball of wax, it's so much more than static entertainment. Software piracy is bad but developers could always figure out a way to capitalize on current trends.

    A budding developer could offer his software for free download with a trial certificate that is an actual certificate file with a generated hash. The program could terminate without the presence of a certificate generated by the developer and only work for one copy per single pc (or whatever). Autodesk Maya uses a similar method but it's flawed and easily pirated via a program that generates the needed file. Verisign could help on that front.

    Cracking a program on your own can be done with memory hooking/dumping apps(to strip packers), hex editors, and rebuilders. The info on how to do it and the tools are easily found online, not that I've ever done anything like that :range:
  • kryystkryyst Ontario, Canada
    edited Apr 2009
    Actually there was a big stink about people recording tapes, albums or radio broadcasts, same as shows to VCR's for that matter. The tape was blamed for record sales losses and all other sorts of evil. In Canada it went so far as to add a tax to all recordable media to compensate that potential loss in revenue.

    Basically copyright theft is nothing new it's always been around, it's always been a problem. The difference is that it's so much more common and easier now and the quality of the copies has dramatically increased.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited Apr 2009
    Actually there was a big stink about people recording tapes, albums or radio broadcasts, same as shows to VCR's for that matter. The tape was blamed for record sales losses and all other sorts of evil.
    Yes. Copying LP vinyl to cassette was a big thing in the 70's and early 80's. When the dual cassette decks came out in the 70's, it was controversial in the same way torrent sites are today - not proof of copyright infringement but the assumption of illegal copying. There was one big difference back then - copies were analogue, and each copy further removed from the original lost quality.

    Essentially, there are only two differences today than the illegal copying of decades past:

    1. scale - it's so much easier now with Internet and computers
    2. quality - analog was a built-in deterrent due to difficulty in making quality copies
  • chrisWhitechrisWhite Littleton, CO
    edited Apr 2009
    mondi, dead on sir, well written.

    siruspernot, another thing to keep in mind with tapes is that they had built in copy protection as a flaw in the medium. Sure, you could create a couple mix tapes but as an analog format each generation degraded until eventually it was trash. The threshold certainly wasn't only once and people lived with it because it's what they had but given the poor quality of tapes without being mixed mass piracy wasn't practical.

    Also, because it was a physical piece of media you or someone you know had to have the music (unless you're taping off the radio) so there was some investment still happening, today, all you need is one guy to buy the cd and the whole world can listen.


    Edit: man Leonardo beet me to both points while I was typing. Nice.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited Apr 2009
    Copying LP vinyl to cassette was a big thing in the 70's and early 80's.
    And just like today, much of this was 'legitimate,' such as copying albums onto cassette to play in the car stereo or the "boom box." The attitude was, "why pay for a cassette when I've already purchased the album - not fair to have to purchase it twice." And just like today, there was wholesale pirating, especially in the Far East. I made a trip to Hong Kong once. There were markets all over the city with tables stacked high with pirated cassettes. There was everything from pop, to rock, to classical.
  • drasnordrasnor Hawthorne, CA Icrontian
    edited Apr 2009
    kryyst said:
    So while I do understand your rant, I think everyone understands your rant. It's idealistic thinking. You can't stop crime by clicking your heals and whishing three times. If you are serious about stopping piracy you have to find a way to more effectively punish the people doing the pirating. Which means throttling, caps or per use internet charges like any other utility. If mom suddenly sees a $300 internet bill juniors going to get the beats.
    Here's the flip side of that coin. Last week I got a call from my mother expressing her concern over the new bandwidth caps Time Warner is rolling out at home. Between their DirectTV video-on-demand service, Netflix streaming video service, iTunes, and Audible they can easily hit those caps. All I could do was show them how to use the bandwidth monitor on their Tomato router and tell them to give Time Warner an earful if they tried to renege on their original contract.

    There are businesses and services that offer fully legitimate on-demand video and music. Bandwidth caps and throttling will kill these businesses.

    -drasnor :fold:
  • airbornflghtairbornflght Houston, TX
    edited Apr 2009
    Leonardo said:
    And just like today, much of this was 'legitimate,' such as copying albums onto cassette to play in the car stereo or the "boom box." The attitude was, "why pay for a cassette when I've already purchased the album - not fair to have to purchase it twice." And just like today, there was wholesale pirating, especially in the Far East. I made a trip to Hong Kong once. There were markets all over the city with tables stacked high with pirated cassettes. There was everything from pop, to rock, to classical.
    I think some of us are forgetting about fair use. If I purchase a work in one medium I should be free to move it between mediums (cd/digital/etc) for my own consumption. I'm aware that many people pirate. I have in the past but as of now my music is legitimately purchased.

    My point is we can not shutdown distribution methods, software, or mediums simply because they have the capacity to be used illegally. There are many legitimate uses of p2p, bit torrent, dvd rippers, and other such tools.

    I do not endorse piracy, but I feel these applications should remain to be available. The simple fact is that record labels, producers, and artists are still making ridiculous amounts of money. Just not insanely ridiculous amounts of money. Perhaps if the record labels would reconsider their economics fewer people would be driven to stealing music. $1 per track is fair, but $20 for a cd in the store is absolutely ridiculous.
  • ThraxThrax Professional Shill, Pokémaster, Watch Slut Toronto, ON Icrontian
    edited Apr 2009
    The problem with your argument, of course, is that The Pirate Bay openly endorsed piracy and flippantly regarded the law when asked to comply with it.
  • airbornflghtairbornflght Houston, TX
    edited Apr 2009
    I believe the reason they did so is because they did not actually provide the files themselves. Merely a roadmap of how to get them.
  • kryystkryyst Ontario, Canada
    edited Apr 2009
    drasnor said:
    Here's the flip side of that coin. Last week I got a call from my mother expressing her concern over the new bandwidth caps Time Warner is rolling out at home. Between their DirectTV video-on-demand service, Netflix streaming video service, iTunes, and Audible they can easily hit those caps. All I could do was show them how to use the bandwidth monitor on their Tomato router and tell them to give Time Warner an earful if they tried to renege on their original contract.

    There are businesses and services that offer fully legitimate on-demand video and music. Bandwidth caps and throttling will kill these businesses.

    -drasnor :fold:
    Absolutely - hence my original statement
    Kryyst said:
    The only way to stop massive file sharing is to kill the bandwidth at the ISP levels and that effectively kills the internet.
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