The Crystal HD is a nice product, but the lack of compatible players really kills its usefulness in my opinion. I sincerely doubt the developers of MPC-HC or VLC will ever take the time to implement Broadcom support, particularly when it's such a niche device that's in an even smaller niche of Intel netbooks.
It goes without saying that anyone who wants real 1080p performance from their netbook should simply get an NVIDIA ION-powered unit. The HP Mini 311 is a great start.
Don't forget GMA500. Accelerates 1080p without dropping frames if you run the latest drivers and decodes H.264 from Flash if you run 10.1 Beta 2, albeit still a little choppy but that's Adobe's fault. It's not ION, but it is an option.
It goes without saying that anyone who wants real 1080p performance from their netbook should simply get an NVIDIA ION-powered unit. The HP Mini 311 is a great start.
Agreed, but for those of us who have the U100 or other netbooks lacking the capability, this certainly presents a good option. I'll admit I don't really plan on bringing a Blu-Ray player with me to use with a netbook, but it's certainly nice to know that I can make ISOs from my library and play them at 30,000 feet without dragging out the giant notebook.
My goal in a netbook isn't just 1080p playback, but also the ability to run some light gaming. For only a few dollars more than the price of the well-equipped HP Mini 311, I've had my eye on the nice Asus Eee PC 1201N. In addition to the ION chipset, it has the dual-core Atom CPU.
Yeah... sacrifice WiFi for HD playback? When did people start expecting their netbook to do everything a full sized notebook does? I thought the whole point of the netbook market was inexpensive, portable computers to get your basic daily tasks done on (email, browsing, maybe some word processing). If you want something to be a media player, why would you ever tether yourself to a netbook with a 10, 11 or 12 inch screen?
Yeah... sacrifice WiFi for HD playback? When did people start expecting their netbook to do everything a full sized notebook does? I thought the whole point of the netbook market was inexpensive, portable computers to get your basic daily tasks done on (email, browsing, maybe some word processing). If you want something to be a media player, why would you ever tether yourself to a netbook with a 10, 11 or 12 inch screen?
The only WiFi that was sacrificed was the internal module. It is trivial to add a USB adapter. In fact, the USB module works better than the internal did.
That's well and good... I still say my other point stands though. Netbooks were never supposed to be hardcore media platforms. Anyone who has the smarts to know about and install one of these cards either A) didn't buy a netbook for HD playback or B) bought an ION platform netbook. It's a neat concept, but one that seems to be doomed if you ask me. Now if they could release a similar thing in a USB stick form, that would excite me, because I could just have it in my bag and if, for some reason, I wanted to watch some HD content I could plug it in. For me, and all the other people I know that own netbooks though, wireless gets used a lot more than HD video playback. Having to deal with a USB wireless card constantly is annoying and since they get used almost all the time the thing is running, you're much more likely to break an external wifi stick as opposed to something that you only have plugged in once and a while when you need it.
Realistically speaking, these Broadcom cards were designed to ship in OEM configurations with Pine Trail netbooks. You can purchase them individually, but that's not really the point.
Got any specifics as to which ones Thrax? I don't recall seeing more than one mini-PCI(x) slot on any notebook I've ever taken apart. I've only ever torn into my MSI, my old Lenovo and a plethora of Dells though. Haven't had the chance to tear apart any netbooks yet.
Oh herp-a-derp... of course... extra PCI-E slots for SSDs and for 3g cards. Why didn't I think of that. Hmm... this makes me want to crack my 1005HA open and see if I have an extra one.
I've heard people having great success running them as OSX86 machines and I wouldn't be surprised if they made sure the hardware was good to go but I can't imagine them marketing it that way.
I've heard people having great success running them as OSX86 machines and I wouldn't be surprised if they made sure the hardware was good to go but I can't imagine them marketing it that way.
The U100 is especially good for use with OS X. There's an entire community dedicated to the task at http://www.insanelywind.com. But MSI would be opening themselves up to all kinds of legal trouble from Apple if they were to officially market their systems that way.
Sorry, they viral marketed them that way. They may not have taken out billboards in times square but you can bet they chose their parts very carefully to be compatible with OSX and made sure that the right people knew it.
The whole damn Wind line uses the most common, inexpensive ASICs on earth. You'd have to be a moron to purchase something more esoteric and expensive given the volume and margins on netbooks.
The whole damn Wind line, including the nettops, run OSX. You're telling me that's just a coincidence?
Here is proof that it may very well be a coincidence:
The Mac Mini at one time ran on an Intel 945 chipset with a 32-bit Core Solo processor and Intel GMA950 integrated graphics. The architecture of the U100 netbooks (and many other models and brands) was identical save for the processor. So naturally it was a moderately trivial task to get OS X to run on those platforms. Did the manufacturers plan it that way? Doubt it. That was Intel's decision.
(Begin unprovable speculation) If Apple thought Intel did this specifically to create a "Hackintosh market" I'd be willing to bet we'd have seen either AMD powered Apple systems or a gigantor lawsuit by now.
So yes, it probably was a coincidence. I can't prove it either way.
Sorry, I went over the line with my last response.
Of course I can't back up the OSX comment, if I could Apple would actually be suing MSI no doubt. If the Wind series fell under Thrax's "coincidence" argument though, then half the netbooks and nettops on the market would also run OSX just as easily. Are you telling me it's a coincidence that of all the netbooks and nettops out there, only the Wind series is OSX friendly? I call bullshit on that. MAYBE the original was a coincidence, after that though I'd posit they purposely stuck with the hackintosh hardware in order to push a few more units to people that wanted to run OSX but didn't want to pay the Apple premium. Not a bad decision if you ask me.
Regardless of the above, that whole argument is a tangent. It seems to me that you just don't like me questioning your article or your conclusions. The Broadcom card may be a nice little addition to a netbook out of the box as Thrax said. It's stupid to add it to an existing one because you're adding functionality that wasn't intended for netbooks at the expense of essential functionality, namely wireless internet. Your article didn't even take into account the cost of a decent USB wifi card, which will be necessary when you remove the existing wireless card to add this HD co-processor. This card is a stupid purchase for any netbook that doesn't either have an unused mini PCI-E slot or for anyone that doesn't have a spare USB wireless card laying around and doesn't mind having some stick or dongle hanging off their netbook all the time. I'm not questioning that it's a neat piece of tech, just that it should be an Icrontic recommendation. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone that bought a netbook for its intended purpose, a small, light machine to access the Internet with. Not a media platform.
Of course I can't back up the OSX comment, if I could Apple would actually be suing MSI no doubt. If the Wind series fell under Thrax's "coincidence" argument though, then half the netbooks and nettops on the market would also run OSX just as easily. Are you telling me it's a coincidence that of all the netbooks and nettops out there, only the Wind series is OSX friendly? I call bullshit on that. MAYBE the original was a coincidence, after that though I'd posit they purposely stuck with the hackintosh hardware in order to push a few more units to people that wanted to run OSX but didn't want to pay the Apple premium. Not a bad decision if you ask me.
I believe the Asus Eee PC line were among the first to get the OS X treatment. Regardless, the Wind series isn't the only line that's compatible. It's just the most popular. The Dell Mini 9 is apparently quite compatible as well. I would actually say that easily half the netbooks out there run OS X.
Regardless of the above, that whole argument is a tangent. It seems to me that you just don't like me questioning your article or your conclusions. The Broadcom card may be a nice little addition to a netbook out of the box as Thrax said. It's stupid to add it to an existing one because you're adding functionality that wasn't intended for netbooks at the expense of essential functionality, namely wireless internet.
I don't have a problem with anyone questioning my article or its conclusions (this conversation will probably end up rounding out the article nicely), but your argument holds a bit of a problem: throughout modern PC history, probably 90% of the improvements made to computers started as added functionality that wasn't in the original box at the time of purchase. Graphics adapters, sound cards, mice, TV tuners, and optical drives - were these stupid because they added functionality that wasn't intended for the original PCs? Yet they are all now considered essential components (TV tuner being the exception). The netbook is no different here. We are now seeing additional capability built in that came from a desire to do more with these small systems.
I didn't sacrifice ANY functionality to add in the Broadcom card, and I can't express how strongly I disagree with your argument that it's stupid to add it into the Wind. The system lacks certain media capabilities and the card fills that gap. Were netbooks intended to be HD media players? No, but now it's a viable option for those of us without ION systems. Just like a GPU can turn a $300 cheapo special PC into an entry-level gaming system.
Your article didn't even take into account the cost of a decent USB wifi card, which will be necessary when you remove the existing wireless card to add this HD co-processor. This card is a stupid purchase for any netbook that doesn't either have an unused mini PCI-E slot or for anyone that doesn't have a spare USB wireless card laying around and doesn't mind having some stick or dongle hanging off their netbook all the time. I'm not questioning that it's a neat piece of tech, just that it should be an Icrontic recommendation. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone that bought a netbook for its intended purpose, a small, light machine to access the Internet with. Not a media platform.
As for not listing a price for the USB WiFi, I chose not to because I felt it to be outside the scope of the article although it was certainly mentioned as a caveat. It was probably an incorrect decision which is easily fixed. For the record, I paid $30 for this adapter, and it doesn't "hang off" the system. I happen to have a 9 cell battery (again, an aftermarket product because the 3-cell was the only thing available at purchase time) which raises the back end about 1.5" above the front. It's a perfect spot to secure the WiFi dongle. Doesn't get in the way of anything and as previously stated, the USB WiFi works better than the internal adapter did.
Your argument that it was a 'stupid' purchase is invalid for me. I desired a certain function that my existing equipment lacked, found a workable solution, and implemented it. That capability wasn't around at the time of purchase, and $60 in upgrades was certainly less than purchasing a $400 - 500 netbook that still couldn't do everything I wanted it to, namely run OS X. The HP Mini 311 is moving toward running it, but still has a long way to go before it's useful in that role. If I found a 1280x720 display that would fit in the LCD housing on my Wind you could be sure that I'd have it installed in a heartbeat. If its display quality was as good or better than the original, I'd also recommend it in an article to anyone that wanted a better display in their netbook. If the quality wasn't as good, I would mention that too. This is why I reviewed the Broadcom card, and I stand by the article, its recommendation, and the Stamp of Approval. If you don't want that capability in your netbook, then you weren't my target audience.
My goal in a netbook isn't just 1080p playback, but also the ability to run some light gaming. For only a few dollars more than the price of the well-equipped HP Mini 311, I've had my eye on the nice Asus Eee PC 1201N. In addition to the ION chipset, it has the dual-core Atom CPU.
I was looking into the ION machines but I've got 2 issues with them. At 12" you may as well get a laptop rather than a Netbook because at that size it IS a laptop (I see anything below 11" as a Netbook) also the battery life isn't very good which kinda defeats the point of a Netbook.
You can get CULV laptops with 11.6" screens, better battery life and considering more power at that size so (other than the price difference) it seems like the 12" Netbook category has no real use, they are just weak Laptops.
I'm hoping the ION2 platform rectifies that and makes the performance/battery setup something worth considering.
You're right about that, in fact I've even seen a few CULV 11" laptops in the same price range as the ION netbooks, but I've yet to find a CULV laptop in the smaller size range with anything better than a 4500MHD graphics processor.
mertesn
I am Bobby MillerYukon, OK Icrontian
Comments
It goes without saying that anyone who wants real 1080p performance from their netbook should simply get an NVIDIA ION-powered unit. The HP Mini 311 is a great start.
I'll be more than happy to show it off at EPIC
Some of us just don't buy things to do what the manual says those things can do.
Here is proof that it may very well be a coincidence:
The Mac Mini at one time ran on an Intel 945 chipset with a 32-bit Core Solo processor and Intel GMA950 integrated graphics. The architecture of the U100 netbooks (and many other models and brands) was identical save for the processor. So naturally it was a moderately trivial task to get OS X to run on those platforms. Did the manufacturers plan it that way? Doubt it. That was Intel's decision.
(Begin unprovable speculation) If Apple thought Intel did this specifically to create a "Hackintosh market" I'd be willing to bet we'd have seen either AMD powered Apple systems or a gigantor lawsuit by now.
So yes, it probably was a coincidence. I can't prove it either way.
Again, your original claim: I'm still waiting for your concrete proof.
Now back up your claim Ardi.
Of course I can't back up the OSX comment, if I could Apple would actually be suing MSI no doubt. If the Wind series fell under Thrax's "coincidence" argument though, then half the netbooks and nettops on the market would also run OSX just as easily. Are you telling me it's a coincidence that of all the netbooks and nettops out there, only the Wind series is OSX friendly? I call bullshit on that. MAYBE the original was a coincidence, after that though I'd posit they purposely stuck with the hackintosh hardware in order to push a few more units to people that wanted to run OSX but didn't want to pay the Apple premium. Not a bad decision if you ask me.
Regardless of the above, that whole argument is a tangent. It seems to me that you just don't like me questioning your article or your conclusions. The Broadcom card may be a nice little addition to a netbook out of the box as Thrax said. It's stupid to add it to an existing one because you're adding functionality that wasn't intended for netbooks at the expense of essential functionality, namely wireless internet. Your article didn't even take into account the cost of a decent USB wifi card, which will be necessary when you remove the existing wireless card to add this HD co-processor. This card is a stupid purchase for any netbook that doesn't either have an unused mini PCI-E slot or for anyone that doesn't have a spare USB wireless card laying around and doesn't mind having some stick or dongle hanging off their netbook all the time. I'm not questioning that it's a neat piece of tech, just that it should be an Icrontic recommendation. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone that bought a netbook for its intended purpose, a small, light machine to access the Internet with. Not a media platform.
I believe the Asus Eee PC line were among the first to get the OS X treatment. Regardless, the Wind series isn't the only line that's compatible. It's just the most popular. The Dell Mini 9 is apparently quite compatible as well. I would actually say that easily half the netbooks out there run OS X.
I don't have a problem with anyone questioning my article or its conclusions (this conversation will probably end up rounding out the article nicely), but your argument holds a bit of a problem: throughout modern PC history, probably 90% of the improvements made to computers started as added functionality that wasn't in the original box at the time of purchase. Graphics adapters, sound cards, mice, TV tuners, and optical drives - were these stupid because they added functionality that wasn't intended for the original PCs? Yet they are all now considered essential components (TV tuner being the exception). The netbook is no different here. We are now seeing additional capability built in that came from a desire to do more with these small systems.
I didn't sacrifice ANY functionality to add in the Broadcom card, and I can't express how strongly I disagree with your argument that it's stupid to add it into the Wind. The system lacks certain media capabilities and the card fills that gap. Were netbooks intended to be HD media players? No, but now it's a viable option for those of us without ION systems. Just like a GPU can turn a $300 cheapo special PC into an entry-level gaming system.
As for not listing a price for the USB WiFi, I chose not to because I felt it to be outside the scope of the article although it was certainly mentioned as a caveat. It was probably an incorrect decision which is easily fixed. For the record, I paid $30 for this adapter, and it doesn't "hang off" the system. I happen to have a 9 cell battery (again, an aftermarket product because the 3-cell was the only thing available at purchase time) which raises the back end about 1.5" above the front. It's a perfect spot to secure the WiFi dongle. Doesn't get in the way of anything and as previously stated, the USB WiFi works better than the internal adapter did.
Your argument that it was a 'stupid' purchase is invalid for me. I desired a certain function that my existing equipment lacked, found a workable solution, and implemented it. That capability wasn't around at the time of purchase, and $60 in upgrades was certainly less than purchasing a $400 - 500 netbook that still couldn't do everything I wanted it to, namely run OS X. The HP Mini 311 is moving toward running it, but still has a long way to go before it's useful in that role. If I found a 1280x720 display that would fit in the LCD housing on my Wind you could be sure that I'd have it installed in a heartbeat. If its display quality was as good or better than the original, I'd also recommend it in an article to anyone that wanted a better display in their netbook. If the quality wasn't as good, I would mention that too. This is why I reviewed the Broadcom card, and I stand by the article, its recommendation, and the Stamp of Approval. If you don't want that capability in your netbook, then you weren't my target audience.
I was looking into the ION machines but I've got 2 issues with them. At 12" you may as well get a laptop rather than a Netbook because at that size it IS a laptop (I see anything below 11" as a Netbook) also the battery life isn't very good which kinda defeats the point of a Netbook.
You can get CULV laptops with 11.6" screens, better battery life and considering more power at that size so (other than the price difference) it seems like the 12" Netbook category has no real use, they are just weak Laptops.
I'm hoping the ION2 platform rectifies that and makes the performance/battery setup something worth considering.
Federico