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Why Steve Jobs hates Flash

GnomeQueenGnomeQueen GigglesMountain Dew Mouth Icrontian
edited Aug 2010 in Technology

Comments

  • Cliff_ForsterCliff_Forster Baltimore, MD Icrontian
    edited Apr 2010
    Thats the thing about Apple. For the non techie, they see a device that has "tailored the user experience" to borrow some marketing speak.

    I'm with CB on this, its like an insult to our intelligence. Just come out and say you are putting the screws to Adobe because you can. See they might if the geeks, the people in the know were actually Apples core audience, but we are not.

    Apple is doing more to stunt innovation and close standards than any other company in tech. Simplicity is not a form of innovation. Its great design in many cases, but its not a form of innovation.

    I understand the corporate philosophy and why it works for them, lets face it, most people know far less about computing than we do, and Apple caters to them, to deliver something that is delightful for the average user. As a result of their success, they can leverage their market position to shape the tools that developers and websites can use, thats just wrong, and we all know it.
  • WinfreyWinfrey waddafuh Missouri Icrontian
    edited Apr 2010
    If there is one thing I have learned about Apple it's that they make decisions based off of 1 thing: the bottom line. I don't care how much they try to play the hipster card or any other type of marketing ploy, it all comes down to profit margins. This is one of the big reasons why Jobs has been so very successful over the years as a business manager. To me their anti-flash position falls in with that line of thinking.

    BTW: Awesome Icrontic Viewpoint is Awesome.
  • BuddyJBuddyJ Dept. of Propaganda OKC Icrontian
    edited Apr 2010
    Meh. Give people Flash and they'll bitch that their battery life has gone down the drain. And they'll cry when they have to try and read around their finger because the website they're looking at was designed by a hoverstate crazy developer. Minimizing the chance for unhappy mom and pop users is how Apple has made its fortune. They've got no compelling reason to change.
  • edited Apr 2010
    Because he is a control freak.
  • GargoyleGargoyle Illinois Icrontian
    edited Apr 2010
    Jackie and Rob are spot on: with Apple controlling the experience, they can direct people right into their marketplace with their wallets open.

    CB + Buddy J + mirage are all on to the fact that Apple wants to control the experience for QA reasons. I understand why Apple doesn't want their users to do things that will end up feeding criticism for thier products. The public characterization of the iPhone would have been vastly different had they debuted the first model with multi-tasking, Flash, and 3G: it would be known as the slick little device that runs out of battery in half a day (if you're lucky).

    That approach works well with the masses that don't know what they're missing out on, but not us. Like CB said, let me decide if a Flash app is too wonky to use on a touchscreen. I'm on Android primarily because I don't like being told how to use my device. I acknowledge that what the iPhone does it generally does better than my G1. But at least I get the choice to multitask, to run background apps that drain my battery, and soon, to run Flash.
  • edited Apr 2010
    I agree with Steve Job's decision to leave Flash out as it crashes a lot, and crashing doesn't go well with iPhone or iPad and it would negatively affect my experience using my iPhone just to even think that my iPhone browser may crash at some point.

    Perhaps the comment about Adobe being closed is arguable, but he made a valid point that I, as an iPhone OS user, am not missing out on much content on the web simply because Flash isn't there.. yes I would love to be able to play any video on the web any time and on any site, but I have the computer for that anyway, plus I have noticed that now more and more sites are adopting the HTML5 technology..

    All in all I think Apple is doing the right move, and I see big wisdom int heir decisions and I salute them for protecting the App Store from all sorts of malicious apps, be it lacking quality or simply offensive stuff like porn and low moral standards... yes it's a free world bla bla bla, and so Apple is also free in keeping all the rubbish out, and keeping the App Store clean... I would in fact encourage them to be more strict probably, but they are just great.

    Way to go Apple!!!!
  • edited Apr 2010
    If you don't agree with Jobs on these issues, who gives. Apple is his baby, not yours. If you're unhappy with his decision, too bad for you. Adobe is a POS company that had a HUGE opportunity to become more than it is (a PC based lap-dog). But Adobe wouldn't comply with Apple to fix the issues with many of its products and so Apple said, see ya. I see nothing wrong with Jobs' decision. And for you people who do, you're morons.
  • QuadWhoreQuadWhore Toledo, Ohio, U.S. Member
    edited Apr 2010
  • BandrikBandrik Elkhart, IN Icrontian
    edited Apr 2010
    I agree with pretty much everything said in the Icrontic Viewpoint, so I don't have much to add. Basically: Jobs is full of shit.

    I will happily go on record and say that I really do enjoy my iPod Touch and iPhone 3GS, but I like it for the apps on them that I've grown to love. Not this whole "Apple Quality Experience" that Jobs keeps touting.
  • edited Apr 2010
    Steve Jobs hates Flash because people would likely not spend as much money on the apps but rather go to the tons of free sites that have Flash games and programs.

    Smart move on his part to keep his company rolling in even more dough, sucks for everyone else who enjoys Flash.
  • JengoJengo Sedro-Woolley, WA | USA
    edited Apr 2010
    wow, i got to this article from N4G.com, awesome!
  • edited Apr 2010
    I'd like to point out that flash video uses h.264 and other patented formats. To my knowledge, flash does not support Theora. It is in no way open and it is bullshit that you could tout the support of flash in the same paragraph that you are reaming on Apple for being closed regardless of Apple's own hypocrisy.

    I also wouldn't bet on Theora being patentless. MPEG has hinted that they have patents that could be leveraged against Theora. Anything Google says to the contrary should be taken with a grain of salt considering their own Android OS is in a hole right now with Apple fighting HTC over a patent suit and HTC now paying Microsoft for patent licensing over Android. This is probably to be expected though, considering it is a Linux derivative OS.

    I do not expect these 1GHz ARM devices to be able to decode videos in flash containers that are not h.264 and thus hardware decode-able at a rate higher than 3 frames per second.

    Flash games are generally not designed in a way that is touch compatible, and users will be angry at /Apple/ for this.
  • edited Apr 2010
    This is just typical Apple wanting people to be have no boundaries...other then the boundaries of Apple.

    Steve is just pissed at Adobe's beating them out in the software market. Adobe's software is standard on both platforms; Photoshop, after effects, Encore, etc. And CS5 Adobe Premiere will take a big hit on Final Cut Pro, cause it does things that Final Cut can't even dream of. So since this pisses him off. He wont let flash on his systems. hoping to stop them from eroding more of his margins.

    Still bullshit though for the owners of Apple products that are told what they can and cant access on it.
  • edited Apr 2010
    I disagree with the analysts on this site, and evidently most of the commenters. I think the balance of Stevie's points lean towards Apple having the right of it here (maybe 60% valid, 40% PR fluff), and beyond that, Apple has every right to control whatever they want on their platform.

    Many of you make the point that its all about money, and yes, of course it is. But don't neglect the fact that it is the same for Adobe, with their Creative Suite being released every year or two for a pretty penny, updating their own "standards" each time and rendering the previous version almost obsolete. Sound familiar? It is...Apple does it to...neither company looks good from this aspect. And just as Adobe has every right to decide how their product evolves, so does Apple and that includes shunning Flash if they so choose.

    I do agree that its a huge stretch to say that you can experience the full web without Flash. You certainly can't...most of the porn clips on the web run in Flash. Its funny that everyone is upset that they'll never be able to play Farmville on an Apple product when the loss of porn is the real issue here. Admit it people. And we all know how Apple-Disney feels about porn... :(

    And games? Sure there are alot of crappy Flash games on the web, and they are free. If they happen to be good games, they usually require micro-transactions for them to be enjoyable. And on the iPhone/iPod platforms, its very much the same. There are many crappy free games, some good ones, and some that require that you pay to truly enjoy, whether it be micro-transactions or up-front. This really makes any argument about the games a moot point in my opinion.

    Finally, lets not forget one other great reason for Apple to bring the hammer down on Adobe: revenge. Some would say that Adobe single handedly held back the resurrection of Apple by delaying OS X by over a year because they dragged their feet adapting Flash and other webcode that was originally for Windows to Mac. Because back then, you really couldn't enjoy the web without Flash. Adobe just didn't think that Apple was worth it in the long run, and now that Apple has regained popularity, they want to turn the tables on those that have wronged them in the past. And I say good for them.

    Now, I guess I'll go back to waiting for my iPad to arrive at my door and I'll see how enjoyable it will be without Flash.
  • edited Apr 2010
    " Apple has every right to control whatever they want on their platform. "

    And then

    "Now, I guess I'll go back to waiting for my iPad to arrive at my door and I'll see how enjoyable it will be without Flash."

    You sure are an Apple sheep.
  • kryystkryyst Ontario, Canada
    edited Apr 2010
    Not just Apple that's turned it's back on flash. MS has just announced IE9 will only use H.264 to play HTML 5 video.
  • BuddyJBuddyJ Dept. of Propaganda OKC Icrontian
    edited Apr 2010
    Yesterday must have been National Everyone Crap on Adobe Day. I didn't get the memo.
  • edited Apr 2010
    I have to chuckle (and then suppress my generic rage) every time I read about how Flash will suck the (battery) life out of the iphone/ipad etc. etc. When will people understand that allowing flash on any platform does not mean that suddently every little fucking thing will be written in flash? There is still the choice to just not open a flash game or a flash enabled site, you see? I hear they plan to allow pets in our building. NO WAY! That must mean they will fill my entire appartment with strange animals! Right? Cause, if it's allowed, that means I HAVE to use it ALL the time, right?
    The greatest danger for the world is the unwillingness of people to use their brain.
  • edited Apr 2010
    Michael said:
    I have to chuckle (and then suppress my generic rage) every time I read about how Flash will suck the (battery) life out of the iphone/ipad etc. etc.
    And, what if I really want to suck the battery life of "my" Ipad?
  • OptixOptix New Brunswick, Canada
    edited Apr 2010
    I love Steve Jobs. Worth billions of dollars and he stil buys his sweaters in the 3 for $5 bin. Frugal!
  • edited Apr 2010
    Apple's next big invention! The iBlender*!!!!!

    * - does not allow blending of vegetables, because they taste bad.
  • djmephdjmeph Detroit Icrontian
    edited Apr 2010
    You can pretty much take the word "Flash" out of that blog p... I mean "open letter" and replace it with iTunes and it still works. It's mostly an Apple-based product that causes instability issues on PCs. It's a closed standard, and people who aren't using it are not missing out. By Apple's own standards they should remove iTunes support from Apple devices as well.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited Apr 2010
    About 10-15 years ago, one of Apple's arguments for Mac superiority was how Adobe Photoshop an Apple computer just trounced anything a Microsoft-running machine could do. It was nauseating - there was hardly an Apple-Microsoft debate to found anywhere where some Apple fanboy wasn't trumpeting the proof positive of wonder technology due to Photoshop-Apple innovation. Photoshop this, photoshop that - advertising, forums, product releases.

    Today, Adobe is the devil!

    I find this to be very amusing irony. Oh, and for the record, I don't have an opinion on Photoshop and I think everything else from adobe that I've tried really stinks.
  • ardichokeardichoke Buttes Master B Lansing, MI Icrontian
    edited May 2010
    I've been chuckling to myself about this one since I first read it. Steve Jobs, CEO of Apple, one of the kings of closed systems, closed standards and closed software, bitching about Flash being a closed platform. Seriously? Is H.264 not a closed standard for video? Yet which plugin is Apple backing for HTML5 video? The open standard, Ogg Theora? Nope, they're using H.264. Seems they only have a problems with closed standards when it's convenient for them to do so. Hypocrisy thy name is Jobs.
  • BandrikBandrik Elkhart, IN Icrontian
    edited May 2010
    You know, the more I think about it, the more I dislike Adobe. The moment I find a worthwhile alternative to the CS4 apps that feel right and are intuitive (I really like Adobe Illustrator at the moment), I'll drop Adobe like a hot, rotten potato. I'm already in the process of weaning myself off of Photoshop.
  • edited May 2010
    I have always liked the way Steve Jobs managed the Mac business. They never implemented anything other than straightforward methods in their copy-protection methods of MacOSX and their other software. MacOSX itself is a very nice and reliable OS. Although I do not agree with some their design aspects, I appreciate the consistency and perfectionism in the user interface.

    After Ipod and Iphone were released and they started to dominate the market, the attitude of Apple has changed drastically for these products. They have become and exceeded everything they have criticized with Microsoft since many years; abusive and manipulative. I am now afraid of their would be attitude if they happen to dominate the PC market in the future. I will not support and buy Apple products from now on.
  • Cliff_ForsterCliff_Forster Baltimore, MD Icrontian
    edited May 2010
    mirage said:
    When you consider the share Apple has in the portable apps market....

    This is going to get ugly.
  • edited Aug 2010
    I'm a web designer, been using apple products and pc's for many years and I find it astonishing that apple still refuse to take flash onboard their iPhone.

    So apparently it crashes all the time and is too power hungry for a mobile device? So how come android doesn't seem to suffer these issues? They blame adobe saying change it, but as jobs said it was a pc technology so the problem actually lies in how the apple OS handles flash, not with flash itself. Flash isn't buggy and doesn't crash on PC's and android phones, so how come its an adobe issue?

    Its obvious that apple doesn't like people having the option of free open content, web designers simply create rich media almost entirely in flash, its the market leader, and its the one all web designers have at hand.

    Yes this is about money pure and simple, apple want you to use its own tech like H.264, I do however notice that they havent withdrawn flash from their macs suprise suprise, as they are bought by design and media agencies the world over, remove flash from they can kiss goodbye to the biggest purchasers of their high end computers and largest monitors.

    I thought Apple had turned a corner adopting intel processors and opening the app store for developers to produce content rather than just having the few programs apple saw fit. But they seem to be closing off again.

    I don't see it being long before android starts really making big gains here, the new Andriod 2.2 update just released has flash player 10, the first HSPA+ phones are only a month away and the android market is constantly growing, add to that Unity3d are getting ready to launch a android port so many app store games that were designed for the iphone can just be ported to the android ones simply and things will start getting very interesting.
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