The last thing Warren needs is another parking lot full of junk

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Comments

  • fmuellerfmueller Auckland, NZ Icrontian
    edited April 2010
    johns wrote:
    I too want a nice piece of land to plant flowers and have a garden to get away to

    If you live in Warren, you might want to attend the next city council meeting. One possible outcome I could see would be the establishment of a green belt as a community project. You could volunteer to plant some flowers. That way many people could get a garden to get away to!
  • CantiCanti =/= smalltime http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9K18CGEeiI&feature=related Icrontian
    edited April 2010
    Even assuming it is private property. He planted a tree in 1984 and it was allowed to grow undisturbed and unnoticed for all that time. That alone makes me think that whoever owns the land wasn't getting anything out of it and likely won't miss something they didn't use for 2 and a half decades. Probably a bad analogy but consider this. You inherit a house in a rundown neighborhood that is steadily declining with no signs of improvement. You never visit it for 26 years. One day you decide to go turn it into a vacation home only to find it's been broken into many times, robbed, vandalized, has squatters living in it, and fire damage caused by said squatters. How much do you honestly care?
  • CBCB Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Der Millionendorf- Icrontian
    edited April 2010
    I'm not sure about Michigan, but here in Ohio, if you maintain a piece of property for 13 years as if it belongs to you, and during that time, no claim to the property was made by its owner, then you get to keep it.

    A friend of mine had to deal with this when he found, during a land survey, that a neighbor's fence had been built three feet on his side of the property line. He tried to reclaim the property, but the state gave the three feet to the neighbor because he had built the fence over 13 years earlier, and no one had ever noticed that it was wrong.
  • edited April 2010
    Thank you for bringing this up. I NEVER read my Warren Weekly. I am really bad at that.

    I hope you can help save the land even if it is on private property.

    I have lived in Warren my entire life. I am about a mile down from you and I know it isn't like it was when I was a kid.

    Things have changed from then and haven't improved.
  • BuddyJBuddyJ Dept. of Propaganda OKC Icrontian
    edited April 2010
    If there really are wetlands on the property, contact the DEQ and let them make it official. It'll limit the use of surrounding property and they'll probably crap their pants if somebody tries to build a parking lot next to them because of the water runoff and grading. http://www.michigan.gov/deq/0,1607,7-135-3313_3687-24316--,00.html
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited April 2010
    You know, according to the Michigan DEQ maps, those ARE wetlands.

    macomb%20wetlands.warren.jpg

    Hmmmm. I'll be sure to bring that up to the Mayor.
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited April 2010
    I just sent an email to the Michigan DEQ to see if that is a protected space. Thanks for the idea, Pete!
  • JasonJason H. R. Chufnstuf PDX Icrontian
    edited April 2010
    johns wrote:
    People, first of all Mr. Turmel trespassed, this property is owned by a private development company, not by the city or the government. How would all of you feel if someone took a piece of land you own and use it as theirs? It’s really ridiculous that people can be so narrow minded, this guy TRESSPASSES.
    Second, I did not see any magical or beautiful garden. I see a bunch of junk all over the place.
    I love the nature and the environment, but we should ask all the facts before judging.

    Yeah, a piece of property that's remained undeveloped and untouched by Warren Commerce Center LLC for over a decade; a piece of land that would be just another overgrown eyesore in the middle of Warren if it wasn't for Mr. Turmel.

    What's narrow-minded is thinking that the urban sprawl that is it Warren needs another fucking parking lot. As far as I'm concerned, that land should belong to the community and be turned into a park.
  • fmuellerfmueller Auckland, NZ Icrontian
    edited April 2010
    The wetlands could be your savior! Here in Ohio you are barely allowed to cough anymore within a mile radius around any wetland. I think sometimes it's a bit overdone, but in this case it could work in your favor :thumbup

    As an aside, there is a documentary our there by Cleveland Water in which, amongst many other things, they complain about a problem of dogs defecating next to Cuyahoga River; ie in the wetlands. Around here there are pickup bags all along the river so you can clean up after your pooch. Yet wildlife is so abundant that every few yards you risk stepping in deer poop, and last Fall I gave up using one of my favorite walking path because it was covered ankle deep in geese shit. Luckily that path floods in winter, so in spring the mess was gone, but if all the dogs in Kent relieved themselves into the river all year round, they wouldn't pollute the river more than those geese did in a week :tim:
  • MrTRiotMrTRiot Northern Ontario Icrontian
    edited April 2010
    It makes me sad that an industrial city would want to get rid of green space, privately "owned" or not. My city here in Ontario green space is over 10%...and in some places, it's alot higher.

    The city regularly spends mass amounts of money creating and maintaining it. Why would Warren want to get rid of it? It makes no sense...

    Green space is good for business. If your city looks and smells like a crispy spring day more people will come spend there money...

    Industrial space is productive and profitable to certain individuals but ugly and smelly to the rest of them....


    I wasn't joking about the mass amount of green space
  • OptixOptix New Brunswick, Canada
    edited April 2010
    Great article. If this were happening in my home town I would be in that garden snapping picture upon picture and sending them out to members of the city council as well as gathering signatures to keep that eye sore out of your area.

    Public awareness will likely be the downfall of this storage area project.

    My home town in New Brunswick, Canada is pretty lush and green by comparison to many larger cities so I am very lucky and thankful for that although we do have one of the largest (if not the largest) oil refinery in North America right in our back yard.

    With the way the world is going we need as many green spaces as we can get.
  • GargGarg Purveyor of Lincoln Nightmares Icrontian
    edited May 2010
    Let me know if you want to pursue the wetlands thing more. A friend of mine works in wetland issues and I could ping him for some details.

    In the meantime, I recommend people getting more upset. At issue here is whether or not city government is empowered to protect individual landowners or the public as a whole. This sort of thing happens all the time. You can see a dramatic example in the movie The Garden, which is available for instant streaming on Netflix.

    Another thing you can do is engage in a little bit of counter-mapping, which is just a way of making sure your view of the place is noticed. Have you geo-tagged your photos of Turmel's garden and other areas of the green space? If those pop up when people look at the place in Google Maps or search for photos of Warren in Flickr, that'd be sweet. You could also tag the location in Wikimapia.
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited May 2010
    Here I am pinging you for more details on the wetlands thing. I very much want to push that angle.
  • KwitkoKwitko Sheriff of Banning (Retired) By the thing near the stuff Icrontian
    edited May 2010
    A scenario known all too well around these parts. Brian, fight like hell to keep that garden alive.
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited May 2010
    My letter to the planning commission:

    To Whom it May Concern,

    Regarding "SITE PLAN FOR NEW INDUSTRIAL BUILDING AND TRACTOR TRAILER PARKING; Located approximately 711 ft. north of Stephens Road and approximately 563 ft. west of Mound Road; Parcel No. 13-29-227-031; Section 29; Kemp Building and Development Co. (Thomas R. Kemp"

    Hello,

    My name is Brian Ambrozy. I've been a resident of Warren since 1998. I am very concerned about the issue referenced above: both as a citizen, a resident, and a parent.

    I want to give my children a sense of pride in their community, and it's very difficult to do that when a majority of neighborhoods are peppered with commercial blight, industrial wreckage, and liquor and lotto stores everywhere. Imagine my surprise and the delight of my children when we discovered Tom Turmel's garden in our very own neighborhood. They were thrilled, and they started telling everyone about it. That's the first time I've ever seen my kids proud of their city.

    I wrote a story about it after reading the Warren Weekly a few weeks ago, called "The last thing the City of Warren needs is another parking lot full of junk":

    http://life.icrontic.com/article/the-last-thing-warren-needs-is-another-parking-lot-full-of-junk/

    I am trying to get this story, and my letter, to Mr. Paul W. Clark, but I cannot find an email address anywhere for him on the City of Warren website. Please let me know how I can get this story to him and encourage him to read it (and the comments!). The story generated a lot of buzz in the Detroit blogger and social media community, and is a perfect parable for a larger issue in the Detroit region. Questionable "commercial interests" which benefit very few people (those with money) against the needs of the community lead to continuing loss of pride and culture for the citizens. Please don't let Warren become "just another crappy michigan city that makes stupid and terrible decisions". Give us something to be proud of.

    Thank you for your time,

    Brian Ambrozy
    Resident
  • Cliff_ForsterCliff_Forster Icrontian
    edited May 2010
    I love and admire the grass roots approach Brian.
  • UPSLynxUPSLynx :KAPPA: Redwood City, CA Icrontian
    edited May 2010
    Looks good man, you got this.
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited May 2010
    I can't wait for the minutes to the meeting to come out. I want to see exactly which planning commissioners voted "yes" on the parking lot. I will be contacting the four of them personally.
  • Cliff_ForsterCliff_Forster Icrontian
    edited May 2010
    I can't wait for the minutes to the meeting to come out. I want to see exactly which planning commissioners voted "yes" on the parking lot. I will be contacting the four of them personally.

    Definately, share the names here. You could head a massive Icrontic letter writing campaign. We will blow up their in-boxes.
  • GargGarg Purveyor of Lincoln Nightmares Icrontian
    edited May 2010
    I don't know if the wetland angle will be easy. I talked to a friend of mine, and he said that a lot of the wetlands data out there is from aerial/satellite photo interpretation, and hasn't been field checked. That jibes with the data disclaimer on their page and the fact that they've got most of the town marked as hydric soils. It sounds like the Michigan DEQ needs to do a field check in order for it to have any legal authority.

    I wonder if the history the residents told you would be enough to get the DEQ to check out. I don't know anything about the prospects of gaining protection or restoration, but maybe I'll bug my friend some more or do some research. I can't help but wonder if the choices are between bulldozing his garden to build a parking lot or flooding his garden to restore a wetland, though.
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited May 2010
    about 250 feet north of his garden are actual wetlands, though. reeds, boggy soil, frogs, etc.
  • fmuellerfmueller Auckland, NZ Icrontian
    edited May 2010
    Well written letter, and I like the online way for rallying support. However, when you approach politicians and council members, I don't think email will have the impact that you need. You might find some useful suggestions here:

    http://www.ted.com/talks/omar_ahmad_political_change_with_pen_and_paper.html

    I think that dude is onto something!

    Best of luck

    Frank
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited May 2010
    Update!

    The council met and voted again, and the proposal got shut down 6-2.

    article here.

    This is good news for now, but Kemp (the owner of the land) sounds like he's gonna get catty and pissy about marking the land as private property now. The battle is won, but the war isn't over.
  • WinfreyWinfrey waddafuh Missouri Icrontian
    edited May 2010
    ^5
  • BuddyJBuddyJ Dept. of Propaganda OKC Icrontian
    edited May 2010
    Great! Next step is to get Warren to build parks for all to enjoy.
  • RyderRyder Kalamazoo, Mi Icrontian
    edited May 2010
    link not working for me.
  • Jay
    edited June 2010
    Since you oppose economic develpment and the creation of new jobs. Can you survive eating grass?? I can't believe that the owner is going through this for a piece of land that he owns.. TERRIBLE.
  • BuddyJBuddyJ Dept. of Propaganda OKC Icrontian
    edited June 2010
    Jay wrote:
    Since you oppose economic develpment and the creation of new jobs. Can you survive eating grass?? I can't believe that the owner is going through this for a piece of land that he owns.. TERRIBLE.

    bam.gif
  • primesuspectprimesuspect Beepin n' Boopin Detroit, MI Icrontian
    edited June 2010
    Jay wrote:
    Since you oppose economic develpment and the creation of new jobs. Can you survive eating grass?? I can't believe that the owner is going through this for a piece of land that he owns.. TERRIBLE.

    A complete load of crap.

    Read the article: It was going to be paved over and used to store JUNK for a trucking company.

    Don't pull that "IT WILL CREATE JOBS" card either. Paving lots and storing shit doesn't create any fucking jobs, get real.

    And yes, clearly I "oppose economic development". Fucking moron.
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited June 2010
    He mad.
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