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Defining Server Rules

NiGHTSNiGHTS San Diego Icrontian
edited Jan 2012 in Gaming
Please use this thread to define a set ruleset to follow on the server that we can use to enforce. To start the discussion, please see the quote below:

If someone is going to try to administrate the server we'll want a definition of rules. Is it acceptable to destroy vehicles in spawn? How about killing people in spawn? Obviously hackers are going to be kicked(right?). Are these things immediate kicks? Do we give warnings? When will you ban people?
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Comments

  • QCHQCH Chicago Area - USA Icrontian
    No base camping... That is for vehicles AND players. Any complaints of this happening will be warned. Repeated offense, kicked. Return and do it, Ban.

    Hackers, if proven and not just someone complaining that a guy is too good to be for real. Notified then Kicked, guy returns, ban.

    I know some servers kick someone if they are using mortars from an area that cannot be hit (non vehicle maps)

    I'm fine for IC folks on each team... if we see a large number of guys that seem to be from one clan, we can pose a "clan vs clan". For now... I'm not opposed to clan stacking since we have a varied skill level and I know I was getting owned by some folks that were not IC folks.
  • NiGHTSNiGHTS San Diego Icrontian
    Wasn't so much 'opting' for different teams as that was the way we ended up. It would have taken quite some time for us to switch teams the normal way and we didn't want to force-move.
    I read over this in your first post, just went back and looked - what's the issue with force moving? I'd not considered it last night, but if it's something we can do, it would definitely make it easier for people to get on the same team - arguably the game's weakpoint.

    If I've got 3 people in the server, 2 on one team and 1 on the other, is forcing moving them to the side with 2 really that bad?
  • CantiCanti =/= smalltime http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9K18CGEeiI&feature=related Icrontian
    No destroying vehicles in base, no killing in base. I don't even think that's debatable, no server I've ever played on allows it.
  • pigflipperpigflipper The Forgotten Coast Icrontian
    edited Jan 2012
    No griefing, no base rape, no base vehicle rape, stay out of uncaps, do not mortar from uncaps, and from there same rules as IC TF2 server. Warning for first offense, kick on second, ban on third. Hackers = immediate perma ban since PB hasn't been updated in weeks and lots of hacks are out now.

    Also, some maps other than the crappy ones in the rotation? Kharg non rush and Firestorm cannot be played right now.
  • BlackHawkBlackHawk Bible music connoisseur There's no place like 127.0.0.1 Icrontian
    I'd personally allow killing people in uncap if they're shooting from it. Plenty of ways to get out of the uncap with teamwork.
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Dallas Icrontian
    No griefing, no base rape, no base vehicle rape, stay out of uncaps, do not mortar from uncaps, and from there same rules as IC TF2 server. Warning for first offense, kick on second, ban on third. Hackers = immediate perma ban since PB hasn't been updated in weeks and lots of hacks are out now.

    Also, some maps other than the crappy ones in the rotation? Kharg non rush and Firestorm cannot be played right now.
    I like this set of info. I promise, I wanted to play last night but I decided that staying committed to exercise plan and then completing my folding on ubuntu article and talking about Team 93 was more important.
  • Cliff_ForsterCliff_Forster Baltimore, MD Icrontian
    I've been playing online shooters for a long time. I've been of the unpopular opinion that if you are not modifying the code, you are not cheating. Base camping, yeah, it's a little underhanded, but it's not exactly a strategy you can't counter with a little thought. Just camping in general became such a huge issue in competitive shooters, when Infinity Ward set out to do the first Call of Duty game they decided the post death kill cam was mandatory on all ranked servers. Camping issue solved, expert snipers had to move from kill to kill and most people felt it made for a better game. If your displeased about the balance of how the game plays and cheap exploits, your issue is not with the player, it's with the developer. Petition them to fix the game in some way. Maybe death by auto sniper for hanging out in one place too long, but in my mind banning someone for playing without modification to the code really isn't fair, and it's super hard to enforce as well.

    I'd focus more on dealing with the disruptive personality's. Slurs, mic spamming, offensive sprays, I think they are good easily enforceable rules that set the tone for what kind of server you want to keep. Anything that has to do with the competitive balance of the game, complain to the developer if you don't like how it plays. If a player is not modifying the code in some way to gain an edge, I don't believe its cheating, or a behavior that is reasonably enforceable by server mods.

    Just my two cents.
  • I'd personally allow killing people in uncap if they're shooting from it. Plenty of ways to get out of the uncap with teamwork.
    Agreed.

  • QCHQCH Chicago Area - USA Icrontian
    @cliff_Forster I remember when Blackhawk spawn locked 5 or 6 of us in BF1942:Desert Combat Mod. He was that frick'n good at flying choppers. He would just strafe us and it became no fun. When the skill of the camper is that much better than the average and kills you seconds after spawning... no. If folks want to hunt anyone that leaves spawn in a heavily contested game, sure. I went for almost 5 minutes straight of dying before I could even run 3 steps. I tried to spawn in a jet... DEAD. I spawn and run to a tank, DEAD. Spawn and dive in a building, HEY, I lived... then the building collapsed and I died. Now if a guy is camping in his base and taking shots from there hoping to be protected by the spawn camping rule, I am all for a quick sortie into the base to wipe out the guy and going back to the actual battle.

    There are maps that the base/spawn is so close to the battle and the battle is so one-sided that that is the only spawn spot... it may be the only battle to fight. I can agree that it is within the spirit to keep them from coming out.

    As for the "complain to the developer"... Sure, put in a complaint and wait weeks/months/never for anything to be done. On our server, just plain easier to post the rules and everyone can have fun.
  • pigflipperpigflipper The Forgotten Coast Icrontian
    Cliff: play and you have a say, otherwise, bugger off.
    I'd personally allow killing people in uncap if they're shooting from it. Plenty of ways to get out of the uncap with teamwork.
    Yes, there are plenty of ways to do so, if everybody on the team works together. Problem is that with pubs, you don't have that 99% of the time and people start bailing, which presents another problem, auto balance does not seem to work on our server.

    My complaint last night was getting shot in the uncap as soon as I spawned, not even enough time to move before I was dead; completely ruined that particular round for me. If I had been allowed to get into the air in the jet or helo or in one of the LAVs, yeah, thats different, but I was being shot on the deck before even getting into an aircraft. This game is about having run, not about "realism", thats what HC servers are for and why we are not running one.

    Another problem that we ran into before getting onto our server was same team griefing via C4 and jeeps. If you have not encountered this, trust me, you will see red when someone on your team kills you just as you get into a vehicle or runs you over with a runaway jeep right as you spawn. I was killed twice by my own team putting C4 on the helo then detonating it right before I could hit "E" to get in, so frustrating.
  • QCHQCH Chicago Area - USA Icrontian
    so THAT is what griefing means... Yeah... kick and also cut a nut off. :D
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Dallas Icrontian
    blatant TK'ing should be instant kick w/ reason (i.e. tell them why, but still insta-kick rather than warn) and if they come back for round two, perma-ban.
  • CannonFodderCannonFodder Detroit, MI Icrontian
    blatant TK'ing should be instant kick w/ reason (i.e. tell them why, but still insta-kick rather than warn) and if they come back for round two, perma-ban.
    They need to come back ... and do it AGAIN. People should see that admins have power, and then be given the opportunity to learn.

    Lets all remember that we want people to perceive our server as a nice, friendly, welcoming place to play. We want more people to join us, right?


    I'm all for getting teams set up, especially to make squads. My problem last night was if we were to have 8 IC people on a team vs 8 pubs, it would have been a slaughter, skill levels or no. That, and 8 people in vent would have drove me crazy.

    Later, when the server was full, I wouldn't have minded swapping teams except that by then you guys were all being jerks about it, and I wasn't feeling like giving in, especially when I came up to explain myself and got shit.

    Jimmy had a great idea: use skype for squads, and vent for inter-squad chat. If we get another IC game setup, I'd like to try that. Hopping channels in vent sucks.

    Speaking of vent - should we broadcast the vent info when the server is full? Anyone have a problem with that?

  • NiGHTSNiGHTS San Diego Icrontian
    I guess I missed the giving shit part - I think a few guys were having a good time about it and it was taken the wrong way.

    I'm not sure what prompted the Ventrilo server from needing a password, but something must have happened. I would assume publically giving out the information and password again would allow whatever it was to happen again... anyone have any insight on why it's set up the way it is?

    I'm not resisting Skype, but I don't really see what it fixes... maybe I'm not fully understanding? Wouldn't you still have to alt-tab and call your new squad on Skype? That doesn't save any time over clicking into a new channel, right? ...what am I not getting here?
  • I may be able to setup a vent server for us all. So we can then have 2. Or teamspeak. I'd have to take a look and we'd have to test it out.
  • TiberiusLazarusTiberiusLazarus Dewmander Misery Icrontian
    Vent has a password because without one various groups of (typically) asian people would randomly hop in and fill the server. The server is limited to 25 (maybe 50) people total. It has been said elsewhere that it is fine to give out the information.

    The reason to use skype and vent is to allow squad communication without a lot of background noise from the other squads. The 4 people in a squad join a skype call with just them. Everyone on the team would also be in vent with push-to-talk for cross-squad communication. In my eyes this would keep comms clearer.

    tl;dr Skype for quick voice comm with people you should be working directly with; Vent for less often team talk
  • primesuspectprimesuspect HumanGarbageDisposal Detroit, MI Icrontian
    Absolutely feel free to give out the password to any and all people you are playing with. As Jimmy said, it's only PWed to prevent flashmobs from taking it over
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Dallas Icrontian
    edited Jan 2012
    Regarding vent and squad vs team voice:

    Is it possible for a sub-channel to hear everything in the channel above it as well? I know you can setup bindings to PTT for different channels (so you'd have one for your squad channel, probably whatever your default for CURRENT CHANNEL, and then have one for PTT to the BF3 channel - this is rather trivial and there are at least two ways involving PTT keys to accomplish this), but that wouldn't solve the hearing the "main channel" issue. I'm not sure if there is a way to set a channel to broadcast to all sub-channels, and can't investigate it currently. Something for the Vent admins to look at, perhaps.

    The problem with adding skype to the mix is then you have to have everyone on Skype friends and alt-tab out anytime your squad changes to setup new call. You also have the problem of having pubs who don't have skype being denied that part of the experience. I would encourage a vent-only solution if possible.
  • NiGHTSNiGHTS San Diego Icrontian
    I'll begin compiling the ones we agree on, and highlighting the more controversial ones for a vote sometime today.
  • CannonFodderCannonFodder Detroit, MI Icrontian
    Nights and I reviewed the map rotation list. The server is now on a "Conquest Small" rotation.

    Based on this discussion, can we please add the following in-game admin messages?

    "Join our community at Icrontic.com"
    "Talk with us on vent: voice.gameservers.com, port: 4505, password: icrontic"
  • primesuspectprimesuspect HumanGarbageDisposal Detroit, MI Icrontian
    Make the landing page message icrontic.com/bf3 so that new people can get an intro to what we're all about.

  • pigflipperpigflipper The Forgotten Coast Icrontian
    Why conquest small and not regular conquest? I can understand not going with Conquest Large cause some of the maps are just too big for 32 players, but small?
  • NiGHTSNiGHTS San Diego Icrontian
    There is no regular conquest. It's either small or large.
  • pigflipperpigflipper The Forgotten Coast Icrontian
    Ahh, ok, thanks for clarifying.

    Is it possible to switch to Rush if, for say, we had a clan match? How much of a hassle is it?
  • NiGHTSNiGHTS San Diego Icrontian
    Just a click away on ProCon, not a problem at all.
  • BlackHawkBlackHawk Bible music connoisseur There's no place like 127.0.0.1 Icrontian
    I'm going to suggest TeamSpeak and TeamSync. Everyone connects to presumably our TeamSpeak server and it'll automagically move you to a channel based on your team or squad. The TeamSync part is server side I believe. A godsend on some pub servers I've played on.
  • I added the icrontic.com/bf3 message, so can someone update that page to include our scheduled times?

    Looking good elsewhere though. Thanks
  • So anything get finalized? I'd like to implement a few things on the server and want to see what the end result is here.

    Thanks.
  • QCHQCH Chicago Area - USA Icrontian
    What are we waiting on?
  • Just an organized list and we should be in good shape.
  • pigflipperpigflipper The Forgotten Coast Icrontian
    Just an organized list and we should be in good shape.
    Good luck with that, lol.
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Dallas Icrontian
    edited Feb 2012
    From this thread:

    No base camping / shooting into uncap (possible out if they are shooting at you from uncap and not leaving)/ other versions of this (1st warning, then kick, repeat, ban)
    Auto-hacking kick/bans/report to PB or whoever is appropriate
    mortar hacks (including mortar from uncap?)
    wall hacks/glitching
    TK's should be warning, kick, repeat ban

    Should semi-define griefing

    Need to decide on a map rotation, definitely stay off the large maps for our server size (looks like Conquest Small rotation was decided between NiGHTS and Cannon)

    Vent: I don't know if there was a definitive answer to being able to listen to multiple channels or not, but we definitely can trasmit to a squad and team channel via different hot keys (could easily write up a guide to that). TeamSync was suggested but is only functional with TeamSpeak and Mumble
  • pigflipperpigflipper The Forgotten Coast Icrontian
    Defining "griefing" is going to be difficult and I suggest we just give a few baselines for admins to apply at their discretion:

    1. Intentionally causing a problem/exploiting a glitch in order to ruin the gameplay experience of other players: Warn, kick, ban (on repeat)
    2. Intentional Team Killing: Warn, kick, ban (on repeat)
    3. Destroying vehicles in your spawn: Warn, kick, ban (on repeat)
    4. Being a douchnozzle in general: Warn, random spawn in mid air, general admin abuse, kick, ban (on repeat)
    4a. This includes heckling, intentionally offensive language, taking a vehicle without picking up people who are asking for rides, intentionally crashing vehicles just to keep others from using them, Prag when he is sniping, etc.

    Since a lot of this is up to the Admin's discretion, the other admins need to keep an eye out and help self police everything (not I have any experience with this or anything *cough* super invincible scout Canti in TF2 *cough*). I also think it should be required that anybody with Admin Access of any sort have mandatory presence on Vent when playing; this will facilitate better communications between those with admin powers.
  • Sp00nmanSp00nman Ferndale, MI
    I think all these excessive rules are a little, well, excessive. Just play. If it takes all the "fun" out of playing, people will play elsewhere. Who has the time - or in my case, money - to monitor all of the players on this server? I'm certainly not going to pay for that as well.

    If boasist can automate some of these things, great! But be realistic, no one has the time to sit around and wait for players to come on and then monitor them. With an average of 5 people playing in the month of February, it's kind of silly.

    Spoon
  • primesuspectprimesuspect HumanGarbageDisposal Detroit, MI Icrontian
    The model we've used for years (successfully) with the TF2 server are this:

    Three rules:

    1) We ban jerks
    2) Only jerks use slurs and demean others
    3) Using porn sprays or exploits is a jerk thing to do

    It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that. When you have people that you really trust, give them the ability to ban jerks. You don't need to set rules at all; just empower the people you trust to make the server the kind of server that it should be. It's not like you're going to explain why you banned someone for calling someone else a faggot or a nigger. That person isn't going to appeal to you. Just ban and keep playing. Rules? Like @sp00nman says, it's just way too excessive.
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Dallas Icrontian
    I think defining the rules is useful from the admin side to know what they should be calling out. The rules that we present to the user base can be the simple ones, with warning and reasoning presented by admins as needed
  • pigflipperpigflipper The Forgotten Coast Icrontian
    @Primesuspect the dickwads and assholes in BF3 make TF2 look like teh lulz. The rules we used for TF2 don't really have a translation for BF3, the game is much more complex and the definitions of being an ass hat so loose and broad that we need more indepth guidelines.
  • primesuspectprimesuspect HumanGarbageDisposal Detroit, MI Icrontian
    My point is: You can sit there and define granularity of rules all day, but in the end, it's way, WAY easier and more efficient to just have moderators make the distinction and empower them to deal with it.
  • so much qq because you guys were getting pwned by the dart, or was it worse than that?
  • QCHQCH Chicago Area - USA Icrontian
    Dart is a bit overpowered and the guy was really good too. The mix made it very annoying. I would be less ticked off if it was a noob and the guy wasn't tipping the balance with just the dart. This guy didn't need the dart. He had over 15 consecutive kills several times. After he switched, he was still getting 5 kill streaks.
  • Ahh, I can see that he does have a high killstreak now, ahh lovely information. I wonder if this is how google felt when they started.

    http://www.division-g.com/bf3stats/players.php

  • pigflipperpigflipper The Forgotten Coast Icrontian
    Dart is currently one hit kill at pretty much any range, lots of servers have made using it an instant ban.
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Dallas Icrontian
    I've got procon, so if we run into it again, we can warn/kick/ban if needed.
  • That's pretty ridiculous to ban for using stock items.
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Dallas Icrontian
    Didn't mean I would (shoulda just left it with warn/kick), but if it is broken (and it certainly seemed to be ...) it is worth looking at. Like you saw, going from 15 kill streaks due to using that item to 5 ... something is up.
  • boasistboasist Troy
    edited May 2012
    Yeah, if you suspect hacking/foul play, first make fun of his mother, sister, then kick. If he come back, ban.*




    * = not really.
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Dallas Icrontian
    That is the order I usually proceed through life in:

    *Waiter brings me my food*
    Me *mark walhberg*: say hello to your mother for me
    Waiter: ... wut?
  • QCHQCH Chicago Area - USA Icrontian
    I watched a video of a guy stating that it is way overpowered... he got two kills at about 50 yards without aiming. He then swung around a corner and guy across the river was there, he fired and KILL. It's like damage of the auto shotgun being fired at close range but it can knock out a guy at 5-10 times the distance. I think I read that the darts each have, like, half the power of a normal round so you figure there a crap load of darts being shot out so just hitting with 3 darts is a lot of damage and because it spreads out, it can take out multiple with one or two shots.
  • I've killed people in there before, they tend to snap up once you kill them and ruin their ratio.
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