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v7 open beta

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  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Dallas Icrontian
    What GPU? I didn't have any issues other than seemingly slower response times to turn it off and not liking the way you did it (right-click menus vs buttons in FAH GPU Tracker). You can either just fold SMP on v7 and GPUs using systray client or something like FAH GPU Tracker (what I'm currently using on two machines).
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited Jan 2012
    That's what I was thinking. The GPU is GTX 570 not oc'ed. What flags would I need to set up for it? I just downloaded the V6.41 client.

    What's FAH Tracker?
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited Jan 2012
    @csimon I've been using v7 to fold on my GPU, haven't had any issues.
    Idunno what's the deal *shrugs*. I've been using it for SMP but when I combine it with GPU it craps. I haven't tried GPU alone yet. I may try that next. Maybe the case interior is overheating or something ...who knows. It gets wicked hot in there even with all of the ventilation I have.

  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Dallas Icrontian
    It certainly might be artifacting due to heat, but try this. Similar interface and equally easy to setup. I like having the one client that runs everything rather than multiple things hiding in systray.

    It will set most of the stuff for you, but for a 570, you just need to make sure it is indicated as fermi and you can setup big packet size and turn advanced on. If you get EUEs, try turning off advanced, then changing packet size (much less likely unless there is actually a problem with your card). You could also do some temperature logging and use either built-in fan profile or something like MSI Afterburner to make your cooling more aggressive. I currently have one 180 (maybe smaller) in front, a 200 on top, 120 on back, and another 120 in the case just blowing air directly over the two cards I have folding. Massive temp drop from the directed air.
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    I folded only GPU last night and it went well but that is typical. The tell tale is during the day while I am at work ...it's usually not corrupt until I get home. This inclines me to believe it's a thermal issue. But I'm wondering if it's the GPU or the memory. The gpu fan only turns at 50% when folding and the temps are around 80c. The case temps get as hot as 45c when both cpu & gpu fold.

    So what I'm thinking is that if may try moving an internal direct fan from mosfets to ram. It's worth a shot possibly.

    At the moment I am running stock clients w/ no flags set ...no advanced, just to ensure that's not the cause.
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Dallas Icrontian
    If you are letting it go during the day while away, have a fan profile for that time and let it run way higher. I noticed EUEs starting as low as 70c on my 570
  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Geeky, in my own way Punta Gorda, FL Icrontian
    edited Jan 2012
    No dust in case or on case fans and/or filters for them??? I am hoping not, but feel all bases need covering. Even if this helps only others, I think it is worth a mention.

    Note, nights tend to be cooler than days. Cooler room at night with fans on blowing air through case will mean cooler case temp then and better folding.
  • quake101quake101 Ohio Member
    Is it just me or does 80c sound too hot? My overclocked GTX460 is running at 56c while folding. I think you have a heat issue.
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    No dust in case or on case fans and/or filters for them??? I am hoping not, but feel all bases need covering. Even if this helps only others, I think it is worth a mention.

    Note, nights tend to be cooler than days. Cooler room at night with fans on blowing air through case will mean cooler case temp then and better folding.
    No dust whatsoever. The build is 1 month old and has been cleaned again recently. You're right though ...worth the mention. And yes, nights are quite cooler than days when no one is home.

  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Geeky, in my own way Punta Gorda, FL Icrontian
    45C is high, I try for an average of 35C max even in Florida, so here is something else unmentioned -- fan volume is a factor of combined fan blade rotation speed, shape of fan blades (scoop blades can grab and push more air than flat blades if just semi-scoop (best)), and size of fan. I use 4-5 blade fans with ball bearing or liquid suspension and have 5 or so per build down in Florida (and buy cases accoringly).

    Another thing, I think it is more likely the GPU cooling or GRAM temp that is bad/excessive(too extreme such that it is heating case). Can you control a case fan that blows on the video card with a conductive type thermal temp sensor placed right on the GPU heatsink?? The sets that do this are cheap now that enthusiasts have a lot of liquid cooling available economically more (volume production always lowers cost per unit.

    Don't mind me if you've checked and/or tried all this, I tend to worry a system problem until it is fixed as cheaply as possible :) Been doiing this for 30+ years, so know environment factors play big into temp.
  • quake101quake101 Ohio Member
    45C on a GTX 570 is not high, in fact 45C on that card under full load would be great. With that said, I still believe that the temps could be better.
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    Ok it folded all night and day on the GPU with no issues. I did not check the GPU temps at full load so nothing to report there but right now I'm sitting at 35c idle. It's still cooling down from the day of folding though.

    So isn't this card supposed to automatically raise the fan speed when it gets hot? I mean 50% fan speed on 100% load for 12 hours doesn't seem right to me ...although it is nice and quiet the way that I like it.

    On another note ...I did reroute the fan onto the dimms so we'll see if that makes a difference too.
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    I cranked up the case fans a little and set the GPU fan a little higher for the night. It folded well all through the night. What I noticed most was that the CPU maintained 48c, case 38c, & GPU 69c ...which is way better than before. However, I am still looking at an EUE on the SMP, but that could be anyones guess.
  • _k__k_ P-Town, Texas Icrontian
    Post some of your log with the EUE error.
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Dallas Icrontian
    I always had weird behavior from stock fan control, so I use MSI afterburner with a more aggressive curve to keep it cool. I also don't have it in my bedroom, so noise level doesn't really matter to me.

    Was it just one EUE or a series? If just one, don't worry. If a series, then something isn't stable.
  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Geeky, in my own way Punta Gorda, FL Icrontian
    45C on a GTX 570 is not high, in fact 45C on that card under full load would be great. With that said, I still believe that the temps could be better.
    Sorry, I thought for some reason he meant CASE was 45C. My BAD! :)

  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited Jan 2012
    45C on a GTX 570 is not high, in fact 45C on that card under full load would be great. With that said, I still believe that the temps could be better.


    Sorry, I thought for some reason he meant CASE was 45C. My BAD! :)

    Yes John, in fact the case temps at one point did reach as high as 45C and my warning light came on. But that was back when I was folding advmethods and my fan bios setings we all set on "silent" for noise purposes. It just wasn't adequate.

    So what I've done is reset all of the fans to a "standard" setting. This brings each to about 1350rpm wereas "silent" was only about 1100rpm. It makes quite a difference in cfm and cooling and the noise is endurable.

    I have an extra filtered fan mount that I will hook up as soon as I can mod off the front to make it fit into the case. It's a Lian Li part that I picked up that I scratched when I tried to mount it. The vendor said it was compatible but he lied. When I wrote him about it and sent pics he said it was too scratched to return ...and recommended that I just drill holes in the side to mount it. Sorry for the rant. With the front off I will be able to mount it easily.

    At any rate ...all was going well until I tried "advmethods" last night with the new setup. It EUE'd another SMP WU and the console was not funtional. I will run w/o advanced settings until I'm surely stable again.

    Tushon, yes it was only one or two EUE's. I don't usually get those on my other boxen.
    Post some of your log with the EUE error.
    How do I do that in V7? I can go to the log tab in V7 and cut n paste what I see but the EUE is long from there since it happened.

    Thanks for everyones help ...it's very encouraging.
  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Geeky, in my own way Punta Gorda, FL Icrontian
    edited Jan 2012
    Ok, I tried. I think I am over my head. Since you appear to have followed Tushon's guide, retrace the name of the file directory your FAH program is in and look for fahlog.txt. That file, if LOG area the thing lets you see shows anything, is where the view is from.

    I am not yet folding now, though next month near end of month plan to have a dedicated rig Folding only (not a big powerful one, it will have a i7 2300 CPU only. That is much better than killing my current laptop with Folding full time (it sleeps or hibernates most of the time, truely impractical to fold on it). Got a Newegg bundle to start things off already (some parts here Tuesday, possibly case will arrive Wednesday).

    John.
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    I did find a log file but it was located where I wouldn't have expected it ...there may be another but I have no clue as to where to find it. Trust me John, the V7 is much different than any prior client. At any rate, it was located in the User>Csimon>AppData>Roaming>FAHClient folder. It only contained the same thing I can view from the log of the console so no big deal. No EUE there.

    I modded the front of the case with a fan that was rerouted from the internal part of the case ...it was directed at the ram. Needless to say it dropped case temps drastically as now the case is only at 33C with both SMP and GPU clients running. This is a big 5C difference. And the fan is only set to run at 50% for now.

    Ok how do I upload pics on this newfangled board???
  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Geeky, in my own way Punta Gorda, FL Icrontian
    edited Jan 2012
    Um.... I use a host myself and link to strategy... Click the picture icon and you get image in post. Between the quotes, type in where on the web it is, including file name and extension. Someone did that for me in my thread about the old laptop with Linux on it. I put text in over one picture. I had stuck in raw file links. I used .jpg files.

    Here's a tout for the new forum, "Supporters" get an "Attach a File" link.... One of the perks.
  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Geeky, in my own way Punta Gorda, FL Icrontian
    Here is a sample of what the "Attach a File" link does...
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Dallas Icrontian
    Upload pics to imgur, then use the little picture "link" to fill in the appropriate HTML markup and paste the link in spot were cursor will go automatically.
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited Jan 2012
    Sorry for the blur & clustermeche. This gives you a good ide of the cooling I've got going on inside. Really hard to keep it quiet sometimes.

    My case is actually still that temp even though I have been folding an advanced SMP for about two hours now. Very cool inside now compared to what it was this morning.











    The temps above were idle at the time ...case temp full load SMP last I checked was the same.
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Dallas Icrontian
    So, I played around with the Ubuntu v7 client. What a crock of shit that experience was: there is no configuration questions like v6, no GUI to do that like the Windows client, so you can either write your own XML config file or pass every option as a command line function to the service. Yuck....
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    So, I played around with the Ubuntu v7 client. What a crock of shit that experience was: there is no configuration questions like v6, no GUI to do that like the Windows client, so you can either write your own XML config file or pass every option as a command line function to the service. Yuck....
    My son ...if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, chances are ...it's a shit client.

  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Dallas Icrontian
    Agreed, there is some serious work to be done on that front if they want to mainstream that client. I'll stick with v6, thanks.
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    I may have stumbled upon my issue. I noticed even after improving my cooling I was still getting into trouble at various times, and especially during the daytime while I was away. I ended up boosting the core a bump or two and so far everything is running fine. this chip just really needs some voltage to get churning WU's on all 6 cores. I went from 1.48125V to 1.4875V and so far I am 24 hours stable. After further testing I may try "client-type advanced" again.
  • pigflipperpigflipper The Forgotten Coast Icrontian
    I ran into a curious problem with the v7 client yesterday involving the SMP client; it wouldn't run or would take 2-4 hours to complete a fold that was taking 2-3 minutes.

    I spent all day stopping and restarting the client, removing the slot client, adding a new slot client, still the same problem. This morning, with a project 8001 taking 18 hours to reach 25%, I decided to drop back the number of cores from the default "-1" auto select to a manually selected 3 cores. Now, I am running a PhenomII X4 945 at stock settings, so I only have 4 cores to work with and GPU folding seems to take almost an entire core to its self. I thought dropping it down from attempting to run all 4 cores to only running 3 would slow me down and/or drop my PPD.

    Nope.

    I am now blazing through the previously sluggish WU at around 3:51 TPF. Is this a problem that other people have run into? I was not having an issue until yesterday and I wonder if its something wrong with my client, the WU or did I successfully resolve an actual issue with load?
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Dallas Icrontian
    One thing you can check for is if there are multiple client's open (check taskmanager for more than one FAH.exe or fahgpux.exe). I've had that before and had to kill it from taskmanager then start over again. AMD GPU folding does still take an entire core for itself, unfortunately.
  • pigflipperpigflipper The Forgotten Coast Icrontian
    Ok, I may check that if it happens again, but I found it odd that even after restarting I was having that problem until I dropped it to three cores (SMP:3) and so far, in the past 5 hours I have not had a problem.
  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Geeky, in my own way Punta Gorda, FL Icrontian
    Up, with blazing success so far (about 2 hours in using it), with Version 7.1.34. Neato, I think 18816 PPD (FAHControl) will be nice for one machine.
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    edited Feb 2012
    Since resolving the vcore and temperature issues I uncovered a GPU issue. I was experiencing a "Failed" after a successful fold of a single wu. All I could do was restart V7 and it would work again but fail again after a single wu.

    I did a little search and found that Beta drivers could cause this ...so if anyone else has had experience with this please chime in. Also, if you're having this issue it may be worth a shot to fall back to non-beta drivers. I'll let you know after I turn in a few successful wu's.
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Dallas Icrontian
    edited Mar 2012
    Bump for (last?) beta release. Would be interested in anyone's feedback who is using it.

    Link to FF
    Link to download page

    Change Logs:
    FAHClient:
    v7.1.50:
    Don't return WU results if they are less than 512 bytes.

    v7.1.49:
    Improved Windows install error message.
    Fixed next-unit-percentage. #842
    Attempt to fix negative/wrong PPD numbers. #843
    Track project runtime estimates per slot. #828

    FAHControl:
    v7.1.50:
    Z in the Zulu time display was still partially cut off. #839

    v7.1.49:
    Z in the Zulu time display was partially cut off. #839
    Build Linux version on Debian testing for python 2.7 support. #763

    FAHViewer:
    No change.

    Additional Notes:
    I've tested installing FAHControl on Ubuntu 11.10 in a VM and it works for me. Here's a handy way to install on the command line:

    CODE: SELECT ALL
    sudo apt-get install gdebi
    wget --no-check-certificate https://fah-web.stanford.edu/file-releases/beta/release/fahcontrol/debian-testing-64bit/v7.1/fahcontrol_7.1.50-1_all.deb
    sudo gdebi fahcontrol_7.1.50-1_all.deb


    The alternative to gdebi is to first run sudo dpkg -i fahcontrol_7.1.50-1_all.deb which will give you errors and then run sudo apt-get install -f.

    There are probably good ways to do this via the GUI too.

    Conclusion:
    If all goes well we will publish this release to the front page. If you think there are any compelling reasons not to do so please let us know but keep in mind that we are currently in a feature freeze
  • pigflipperpigflipper The Forgotten Coast Icrontian
    Is there any advantage to immediately upgrading the client? My v7 has been running without a hitch since install
  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Geeky, in my own way Punta Gorda, FL Icrontian
    I have my 7.1.50 running on my Windows folding box, seems to "get out of the way" of the core more. Same Core 0xa4, but a P7006 is running at 2 min 2 sec per frame(confirmed by looking in log) here, and IIRC under 7.1.43 I got a P7006 and it took almost 7 min per frame. Like the new client/FAHControl set so far.

    Install notes: I told the installer to keep the old config, installed right on top of the older client, it is running smooth. Installer ran an uninstall routine before updating, but kept WU in progress and resumed it from checkpoint. Only thing I do not like, is that it ran the FAHControl, and FAHControl ended up running in a window almost totally over the window that informed me the install was complete. The completion window was not quite covered, the top bar was visible, so I brought the installer window to front and closed the installer.
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Dallas Icrontian
    Many of the fixes were for non-windows clients, but there were PPD calc fixes within the last couple versions, so maybe depending on what you have. The actual clients themselves have not been changed to my knowledge, so you wouldn't get any actual increase in PPD/results.
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Dallas Icrontian
    Install notes: I told the installer to keep the old config, installed right on top of the older client, it is running smooth. Installer ran an uninstall routine before updating, but kept WU in progress and resumed it from checkpoint. Only thing I do not like, is that it ran the FAHControl, and FAHControl ended up running in a window almost totally over the window that informed me the install was complete. The completion window was not quite covered, the top bar was visible, so I brought the installer window to front and closed the installer.
    I'm going to post a bug report about that. Basically, that the behavior should be something like a default "checked" box for "Launch FAH Control after installer exits" rather than what you experienced.
  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Geeky, in my own way Punta Gorda, FL Icrontian
    so maybe depending on what you have. The actual clients themselves have not been changed to my knowledge, so you wouldn't get any actual increase in PPD/results.
    Well, IIRC the pointage for early turnin for 7006 has been upped also. I have an Intel 2600 K churning away folding, almost no apps on the computer except AV and CPU-Z (not running often) and Win 7 Pro updated. 8 GB of RAM, upgraded from 4 GB, happened after the first 7006 so maybe that affects that project some also. HD is a spindle drive due to funds limits here, so more RAM is my way of speeding up work some.
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Dallas Icrontian
    Sure, the points for a particular project might have been adjusted or the early turn in bonus have been tweaked but the actual core that runs the job is the same whether you are using v6 or v7. I don't believe that F@H has any projects non-bigadv projects that get close to 4GBs but don't have any citation for that. You might get a small PPD increase going to an SSD but I'd make sure you were getting it for other reasons first :)
  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Geeky, in my own way Punta Gorda, FL Icrontian
    Well, lessee.... First, I wanted Folding to be able to use more than 2 GB. I know Win 7, untweaked, will happily take 1.5-1.75 GB for itself. Then there is the always-on AV. That leaves maybe 2-2.25 GB for Folding if I have only 4 GB total installed.

    So, I invested $20.00 in another 4 GB stick. And after that, average PPD all other things being equal jumped 2-10 K a day depending on what WUs I got. For my numbers, that is about 12-30% gain in PPD from a minimal investment.

    The client sets up what the core is fed unless I am wrong, and how it is fed, so if the Client will grab lots of RAM and feed the core a whole chunk of work (read large chunk) from RAM, that is faster than from temp files on HD. With SMP, I am (I think) running 8 core equivalents simultaneously.

    So, RAM for eight core instances plus a chunk of work for each, plus maybe the whole WU in RAM if the client is set up right and that much RAM is available for actual use. Else why have the client report what the system RAM is??? And why do those systems with large RAM outperform otherwise essentially same system with low RAM, or slower RAM???
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Dallas Icrontian
    The RAM reported matters at lower levels, or if you want to limit the amount possibly exposed to F@H for other reasons. Right now, my "server" is folding a 6097 through FAH GPU tracker (so, 6.34 rather than v7 beta client but the GPU tracker is really just what FAHControl does in v7) and 9800GX2 is folding a pair of GPU2 WUs.

    The SMP core (what is actually doing the work) is only using ~178MB of RAM and the GPU2 cores are at 73MB each. The clients are at ~1MB each and the overall program (FAHControl, in your case, FAH GPU Tracker in mine) is at 29MB. Total memory hit: 356MB.

    My main rig, which I run -adv and -big (which you should be for SMP) WUs is around the same total hit.

    As to why you got a points increase, who knows. Maybe it was getting sent to swap when you were doing other things and now it doesn't. Faster RAM would feed the processor faster, but I don't know how much of a bottleneck that is and don't have the will power to test it out on my rigs (gotta keep folding :P). You are correct in stating that the client is what talks to the server (giving it stats about the machine on which it is running and pulling/pushing WUs) and then engages the core to do the work.
  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Geeky, in my own way Punta Gorda, FL Icrontian
    The RAM reported matters at lower levels, or if you want to limit the amount possibly exposed to F@H for other reasons. Right now, my "server" is folding a 6097 through FAH GPU tracker (so, 6.34 rather than v7 beta client but the GPU tracker is really just what FAHControl does in v7) and 9800GX2 is folding a pair of GPU2 WUs.

    The SMP core (what is actually doing the work) is only using ~178MB of RAM and the GPU2 cores are at 73MB each. The clients are at ~1MB each and the overall program (FAHControl, in your case, FAH GPU Tracker in mine) is at 29MB. Total memory hit: 356MB.
    Um, what about the WU data and work chunk data impact(you are giving process impact)???? And right now I am at a lower folding PPD level and machine processing ability level, my box is a humble single-CPU 2600K with no discrete graphics card to GPU fold.

    However, EOC stats is guesstimating that I will hit a million points about April 1st-2nd. Started with zero points Feb 4. Same single dedicated Folding box the whole time. :D

    My main rig, which I run -adv and -big (which you should be for SMP) WUs is around the same total hit.

    As to why you got a points increase, who knows. Maybe it was getting sent to swap when you were doing other things and now it doesn't.
    I have been getting consistently more for about 10 days now, in the range specified. So either the client and cores and other stuff were in swap for 22 days and ten days ago (when I increased the RAM) stopped being in swap, or something really weird happened.

  • ardichokeardichoke Buttes Master B Lansing, MI Icrontian
    Anyone installed v7 on a headless (read: no X installed at all) Linux box? I've not tried it yet, but it looks to me like they've gotten rid of the ability to configure it via the command line. All their documentation suggests that the GUI is the only way to config the damn thing.
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Dallas Icrontian
    I do not believe it can be installed on a headless machine, due to the issue you cited. I am using SMP client for my headless (no-longer bigadv) machine, but I don't know that there are any immediate plans for headless configuration.
  • csimoncsimon Acadiana Icrontian
    Tushon are you still running cpu & gpu on advanced client-type (-advmethods)?
  • TushonTushon I'm scared, Coach Dallas Icrontian
    Yes to CPU and mixed. I am running -adv on GPU3 for my GTX570, running regular GPU3 for my GTX465 and regular GPU2 for my 9800GTX2
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