The official "Let's Discuss The Next Lan" Thread

[primesuspect]

Okay, let's discuss the next lan :rarr:

[primesuspect]

George already invited us back to Deebe's for the next one. It was a good venue for the LAN, everything worked out good once we got the power situation straightened out.... Thoughts?

[GnomeWizardd]

Thats cool! It would be a great spot from what i saw of the pics.

[CB]

Well, to restate then:

If we want to have it in Cincy, then GHoosdum and I would be willing to organize it (with the help of the rest of Team Nexlia, hopefully).

There is a game store in Milford which we could proly get. It would certainly hold 60 peoples. The power would most certainly be easier to work out, and the drinks and snacks would be cheaper.

Let us know if you want us to discuss the possibility with the owner.

[primesuspect]

Would there be a rental fee, though? One of the premiere attractions of Deebe's is that the space itself is free.

[Gargoyle]

Cincinnati (assuming that's what is meant by Cincy) would be mean a shorter drive for me :). But chances are I'll have class anyway :(

[entropy]

i wish i could get to the next lan .... living in waldo, wi (where's waldo? - hour north of milwaukee) doesn't exactly help, either. but if it's in midwest to upper midwest i may be able to find a way there...

[GnomeWizardd]

Cinici Would be closer for alot of the people in the lower states

[fatcat]

Cincy is only like 4 hours south of Detroit. Not that I have anything against it, as I've been to Cincy numerous times....

but, I feel the next LAN should be a little more south-southwest-west...

just my .02

B-Detroit
A-Cinn

[mmonnin]

But its not much closer for the guys out west.

Doug is a must come for the next one. I gotta meet him.

Cincy is more like 5 hours. I think thats about how long it took for those gets to get to Detroit. I took me 3.5 hours from Columbus.

[Geeky1]

First thing. Do NOT hold the LAN at any time between late august/early september and the end of June. Many of our members (myself included) have school to deal with, and the main reason I didn't go to this one is that my parents wouldn't let me go period during school. This won't be a big deal for me next year, because I'll be at UOP, but it's still an important consideration for a lot of people.

[mmonnin]

End of June? Heck I will almost be out by then and I go all year round. Nearly every school will be out by then.

[entropy]

do you mean early june? we get out here june 6th i think and start after labor day ... middle/end of june to middle august would be ideal for most people in school (highschool at least)

[primesuspect]

Well, one major thing I learned after organizing the first one was this: You can't possibly make it on a date when everybody can come, or even on a date that everyone agrees on. Somebody said "look, just set the date, and if people want to come, they come.".. It's true.. I was stressing about the date, trying to maximize the amount of people who could make it, but in the end it worked out good, and people who said that they maybe couldn't make it originally ended up showing up anyway.

[Geeky1]

No, I meant end of june. The school I go to now doesn't get out until the last week of June. If you make it for July or August, people who would otherwise be in school will have no trouble making it (at least due to school)

[RADA]

I would like to make the next one. I'll be done with school in 12 weeks.

Geeky,

University of Phoenix? I'm finishing my Masters right now

[Thrax]

1. The next LAN should be in the middle of July.

2. As free as possible in regards to location.

3. Whilst "Centrally located" sounds nice, it means <b>EVERYONE</b> has to pay to go. When there are in excess of 14 people in the Ohio/Michigan area, that may comprise 1/2 to 1/4 of your LAN. Really going to tell 1/2 to 1/4 of your LAN to fly/drive to a central location? Your LAN turnout will be severely impacted.

[primesuspect]

That's what I was going to say too, Thrax.. We need to figure out a geographical distribution, and wherever most of the people live, the LAN should be held within easy driving distance of that.. Ohio/Michigan works out good since so many of us are from this area. Cincy and Detroit are both central to a majority of the site's regulars.

[-tk]

I'm cool with with either cinci or detroit, whatever is easiest for everyone else. As for the date, we should set one soon. Seriously, if we decide on a date within the next few months, everyone who wants to attend would have the better part of the year to plan for it. We should even get a planning committe together or something.

[primesuspect]

The planning committee that I had worked out well. TheSMJ and Pseudonym were awesome planners. Between us, you, and mondi, we got the **** together in a sweet fashion

[GHoosdum]

I actually have no idea if/how much the guy who owns the game store would charge (I can of course find out). I know for a fact that he hosts most of the events there for free (mostly because the kids buy all the cards and games from him during each event). Last I checked, though, he has a set of networked PCs in place at the store already; chances are those who fly in could get a cheap rental rate on a PC for the entire weekend.

Detroit, however, is not too far away for me (obviously). I don't have any objections to Deebe's again. A special bonus would be getting the power issue straightened out beforehand. Next year, I'll be out of school permanently and working full time; if I'm still at Fidelity Investments then I'll have plenty of vacation and will be able to be at the LAN through the entire thing. Even if it's not in Cincinnati, I'd love to help plan, if anyone so desires. I've got a few ideas brewing around in my head already.

[Geeky1]

Here's an idea I've been thinking about- how about multiple LANs.

Assuming we could work out the details, you'd have one LAN on the west coast, one in the midwest, one on the east coast, maybe one in England, all at the same time, and linked together using a VPN.

[primesuspect]

There's nothing wrong with that, Geeky1, but it definitely defeats the "social" aspect of things. This LAN was 90% meeting friends and 10% games, at least for me. I'm sure a lot of the others will agree.

[leishi85]

the problem with that is all the different locations wouldn't have enough bandwidth for VPN and for allof us gaming together, assuming we have at least 20 people per location.

[GHoosdum]

There's nothing wrong with that, Geeky1, but it definitely defeats the "social" aspect of things. This LAN was 90% meeting friends and 10% games, at least for me. I'm sure a lot of the others will agree.

Yeah, I agree.

[primesuspect]

The best parts of the LAN occured during non-gaming moments. Like the mass breakfast, the white castle party at my crib, the thrax/intel/photoshop bit, etc. Good times. None of those things could have happened over a VPN.

[Gargoyle]

That's always my favorite part of a LAN too. But Detriot is just so far away. Could be worse though. I won't know until a couple weeks before the LAN weather or not I can go anyway, so I suppose I don't have much room for demanding a more southern location. I'm all for a road trip if I can secure a week off or something.

[Geeky1]

True, it defeats part of the social aspect, but not all of it. I mean, you assume that there's myself, Jengo, Croc_, and Astroworp at least out here, and too many people to list in the other areas.

So yeah, you'd loose SOME of the social aspect, but not all of it. Eh, just an idea. :)

[celcho]

the geeky idea might be cool for smaller scale lans between the big national one. we could all drive just a short distance. adequate bandwidth at the lan locations is the main limiting factor, obviously, so it may be impractical. worth a look, though.

[bothered]

There's nothing wrong with that, Geeky1, but it definitely defeats the "social" aspect of things. This LAN was 90% meeting friends and 10% games, at least for me. I'm sure a lot of the others will agree.

Yes but, for those of us that couldn't possible attend there was no social aspect at all. If there's a year to organise it couldn't something be worked out? The first world wide S-M LAN party?

[DogSoldier]

Detroit, Cincci..makes no difference to me (All you boys look alike anyways..) IMO, the one limiting factor at Deebes was the bandwidth. There wasn't much opportunity to game outside of the Lan (Unless everyone went to breakfast at the same time) and we couldn't host any SM gamers outside of the Lan. If we use Deebes again, please ask the owner to upgrade his power and network. The Mexican firing squad configuration worked great - for 32 people - but I suspect we'll have more next year.

edit// Oh yeah, if it's in Detroit again.. all I have to do is change the date on the logo. Very cost effective! http://www.planetfortress.com/tfa/stuff/sm-lan-logo.gif

[madmat]

12-14 of the LAN attendees were from the Ohio-Detroit area but how many overall attended? If it's ok for the majority to travel to the LAN why not be fair and have the majority travel a lesser distance for one go-'round and raise the attendance numbers a bit to boot.
If the next LAN is next year I'd like to go and no matter where it's held I'm going to have to drive anywhere from 10-12hrs to get there possibly more but if it's being held at a venue that isn't a possesion of one of the promoters (like was originally planned) so that those of us that attend can crash under tables and such why not put it to where the guys coming from the left can get away with a shorter drive/flight as well as those of us from south of the Mason/Dixon line?

[Norge]

When it comes to the main concept behind having a LAN I agree with Prime. The bulk of the experience is the social aspect of meeting everyone, talking, joking, etc. I think we would lose that great experience if we were to break the LAN into different regions and then connect over the internet or something. If you are going to do that you might as well just make a gaming guild and roll with that. I mean sure, you could talk over voice chat or something, but it just isn't the same. We need to have one location for everyone to try and get to.

Norge

[MountainDew]

prime, is your office out of the question? i remember hearing something about maybe hosting the next LAN there.

[primesuspect]

No, it's not out of the question. The new building is owned by a digital media company. They are "young", and the vice-president of the company is an avid gamer. We've already discussed a company vs company LAN, so having another wouldn't be outside of the realm of possibility. As more time goes on a my relationship to the new owners gets cemented, we'll see how that pans out. The building would be a fantastic venue for a lan.

[Norge]

Yeah as much as I naturally despise Michigan, (I have to, I'm an OSU fan) Detroit really was a pretty good spot to hold it. As mentioned before, there is a good chunk of SM members from the Ohio/Michigan area and it seemed as though people from other parts of the country and Canada didn't have many problems getting there. Since we are starting to plan so early there should be more than enough time for those who are a long distace away to make it here. I mean Virtues of Evil flew all the way from Puerto Rico, Cluth and Ego drove from North Carolina, and of course we even had Canadians. If they can make it to Detroit then I think others should be able to with the increased amount of time to plan. It just boils down to how bad you really want to come. I loved the LAN so if for some reason Clutch decided to have it in North Carolina I'd be willing to drive that far even if it is like a 14 hour drive or so.

Norge

Ps. Sorry for making multiple post so close to each other. I'm in class so I have to break things up to attempt to pay attention.

[Leonardo]

This is good discussion. As much as I'd like to see a LAN at the West Coast, I think mid Midwest is probably the best solution. Cincinnati is the best suggestion yet. It's not a long drive for the Midwest and South members. Obviously, it is a long drive for people from south Florida and Louisiana, but not Georgia, South Carolina, and Tennessee. The bottom line is as far as geography is concerned, the site needs to be a locus where the most people would actually show up. That ain't gonna happen at either coast, in the deep South, or Northeast.

[madmat]

I was thinking midwest personally...Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma...Illinois. Along thos lines, they're all pretty central. I wasn't thinking of the "Deep South" as a venue, heck, the yankee's would die down here in the mid summer.

[checkmate]

I think that Primesuspect is right. We should have it in Detroit again.If we generate more members to the site I think there would be a good turn out.

[Straight_Man]

This is good discussion. As much as I'd like to see a LAN at the West Coast, I think mid Midwest is probably the best solution. Cincinnati is the best suggestion yet. It's not a long drive for the Midwest and South members. Obviously, it is a long drive for people from south Florida and Louisiana, but not Georgia, South Carolina, and Tennessee. The bottom line is as far as geography is concerned, the site needs to be a locus where the most people would actually show up. That ain't gonna happen at either coast, in the deep South, or Northeast.

We need two things-- a fairly geographic central location, AND a place where soemone lives who is willing to find an economical place that has support facilites for the LAN. DeeBe's worked because they had an internet connection and routing in place, had food available, and had places to sit and gab as well as places to have LOTS of fun and gether and game. As was solved, power is also a main issue when you get lots of boxes that draw a lot of power each plus routers to handle high-use bandwidth continuously.

Getting a place that has all this in place is not gonna be cheap, for three days or two, unless there is a city that has more than two or three whihc have to compete to stay busy. Detroit has that, and I suspect Atlanta has that but do not live there. I DO know Atlanta is an established nexus for broadband data routing. If we have some techs who live close enough to Atlanta and know the tech folks there or are part of the tech community there that might be worth looking at.

I will not comment on Cinnci as simply do not live there or know the tech available there or how competitive it is.

Now, why do we need local folks able to set up and check and verify what is at place we choose??? Simple, those folks are going to need to do pre-setup site study and possibly help with and supply routing infrastructure if things LANish get big. I woudl say, unless we have folsk with a specific location in mind, we need to stick with Detroit. Prime is very motivated, most of the staff games, and they like LANs in large proportions. So they know what is needed. AND they know now how to set up DeeBe's. DeeBe's has food when it is open, there are nearby places to get food or eat out, and hotels in area for those who do not want to sleep on the floor or take showers daily.
AND it has an internet connection, right?? So, it has a router or routers. Plus prime can bring a router over because he lives near it, set ti up, and not have to pay for extra day of rental time to allow for running cabling, fixing power issues, and settle the infrastructure in that would be needed for a big LAN. Having people have to travel to set up means expense, and having a place that has to be wired would be a PITA in terms of buying cable, etc just to have the LAN plus folks coming early to set up if we want to offer 2 full game days or more. That cost would have to be covered somehow, folks who are goign to a setup pre-LAN woudl have to pay to stay somewhere probably unless there were folks with room to house them for 4-5 days to allow for setup and takedown of infrastructure. Detroit has a core of folks that live there now.

I would say stick with Detroit until we get a group of folks willing to help with infrastructure in one other pretty central place, in Midwest or southern in a city not too far South for the folks up North. Funny thing, Atlanta is also a transport hub for air travel fro some airlines. Let's see who would be willing to commit to look around their city and see what is there and tell about it, and commit to help set up the basic infrastructure needed or deal for a very good price on a place that has such already.

Logistics can destroy a LAN, fast action and lots of work behind the scenes made the last LAN work.... :D

[GHoosdum]

Actually, the only place besides Deebe's within walking distance to eat was the Big Boy... and that sucked. It was a 15/20 minute drive to get to OHOP, and we had to wait over an hour to even set up our PCs when we arrived because most of the group was gone to White Castle, which took them over an hour to accomplish.

The venue I spoke about in Cincinnati already has an existing high-capacity network and high speed internet connection (faster than Deebe's, at least). The owner of the store is a geek like us (only with more money (well, maybe not more money than Geeky's family (don't deny it, anybody that has more than one Mercedes in the family is undeniably rich))) and when he opened the place (we were his first customers) he told us all about his network, and he did it right.

Not that I disliked Deebe's, but I think the infrastructure there is insufficient to support the volume of gaming PCs we had to hook up. If we can swing doing this thing at Brian's office, that would be really cool. I don't have anything against doing it in Detroit. LANWAR is hosted in Louisville, and while that is a sufficiently central location, it's really just a coincidence; it's hosted in Louisville because that's where the organizer lives, similarly to our SM-LAN experience.

[Straight_Man]

Ok, would you be willing to help study power supply for 20-35 high-power draw boxes running there at once and availability and cost??? If so, one way to get real info and at same time get your idea made more acceptable to many folks who will be spending travel money to come and go and stay there is to get the math done on costs needed and how fast the setup can be and how fast the takedown can be and present them.

Let me make one more hint here, and while this is an alternative idea it would have a few benefits. Is there any reason regional teams and competitions could not be formed, and the teams be made up of the best from each area going to one place-- say teams of three-four folks, with a Team captain chosen from local ad-hoc gatherings and compettions??? Eventually, it would be good to do this, simply because huge numbers of folks running computers at once mean huge bandwidth and power loads. Should we start this model of regional competitions leading into a central competion with bigger prizes???

If we do this, the numbers gathering centrally will be limited. This model could work for folks in US, and possibly UK as a whole, while folks who are good gamers but live far apart could form an ad-hoc team or two... Since this is a "discuss the next LAN" thread, I figured this idea could go here.

[GHoosdum]

Ok, would you be willing to help study power supply for 20-35 high-power draw boxes running there at once and availability and cost??? If so, one way to get real info and at same time get your idea made more acceptable to many folks who will be spending travel money to come and go and stay there is to get the math done on costs needed and how fast the setup can be and how fast the takedown can be and present them.

Sure I'm willing to look into that. My gut tells me power wouldn't be a problem, since he already has about 20 networked PCs there that he rents out time on. I'd look into cost, if Cincinnati were really an option, but it looks like Detroit is going to be the choice again. I'm fine with that, as long as we get a power study on Deebe's (or whatever venue there we choose) so that we don't blow the breakers multiple times again. Heck, I'm even willing to head up early and participate in making sure the power flows smoothly to all PCs involved in the next LAN, if that's the chosen location.


Let me make one more hint here, and while this is an alternative idea it would have a few benefits. Is there any reason regional teams and competitions could not be formed, and the teams be made up of the best from each area going to one place-- say teams of three-four folks, with a Team captain chosen from local ad-hoc gatherings and compettions??? Eventually, it would be good to do this, simply because huge numbers of folks running computers at once mean huge bandwidth and power loads. Should we start this model of regional competitions leading into a central competion with bigger prizes???

This idea has merit. If that's the case though, I would think Cincinnati would definitely be too close to Detroit to be one of the regional locations. I would say that I'd rather drive up to Detroit for the people aspects of things than organize a second node of the LAN party here.

[primesuspect]

Well we can definitely benefit from the experience of this past LAN - I'm positive that with the knowledge (intimate knowledge now :D ) we have of Deebe's power infrastructure, between me, -tk, microman, and pseudonym, we can get reliable power to all computers. Especially since we were using all the basement circuits. The upstairs circuits were untouched, and George already gave me the thumbs up to drill holes in the floor to run lines to upstairs outlets if need be.

[Thrax]

Well we can definitely benefit from the experience of this past LAN - I'm positive that with the knowledge (intimate knowledge now :D ) we have of Deebe's power infrastructure, between me, -tk, microman, and pseudonym, we can get reliable power to all computers. Especially since we were using all the basement circuits. The upstairs circuits were untouched, and George already gave me the thumbs up to drill holes in the floor to run lines to upstairs outlets if need be.

We ran 31 PCs without tapping upstairs circuits. The owner gave us the go-ahead to drill holes in his establishment's floor to get more power. He's giving us the location for free...

How dedicated a place can we get?

[QCH]

The way I see Deebe's is, great place for the size event we had... I cannot foresee putting much more than 5 more people in there. The power thing could be worked out, the network and internet access can be worked out. The heat (cooling) will be difficult and the space will be difficult. The price was GREAT and the convenience of upstairs was great....

The argument that Detroit/ Michigan area has a larger number of members to pool from… Not as compelling as you may think. I may be wrong, but it seemed like a number of the attendees were not regulars at SM and came to the LAN because it was in their backyards. I think that the number of people that showed up for this years LAN from around Detroit was due to the fact that it was in Detroit. I think that where ever we hold the LAN, more people from that area would show up. How many of the Michigan crew would have skipped out if wasn't in Detroit. How many people would be added if we held it in Ohio or Chicago? Where ever it's held, the locals will be more willing to take the time off and party. I can say that, if held in Chicago, at least 7 or 8 more people will show up from this area.

I'm offering Chicago area as a possible venue. We have 2 international airports and we're just about as central as you can get. I think the "west side" crew from Michigan will find the trip to Chicago fairly close to the same as going to Detroit. The Ohio Crew will have to travel a bit more but the Wisconsin and other Illinois people will benefit. Dan can fly into Chicago with ease.

I'm sure ocomik and I could get the venue and organization stuff done...

[primesuspect]

I love chicago. What a great town. From detroit, you can fly to chicago for about $40.

One other thing to keep in mind is that George offered us the upstairs as well as the downstairs. Theoretically, we could fit another 30 people upstairs. He stressed it several times during the event that the upstairs was ready and available for us.

[Kwitko]

You can't argue with George. Although it would have been nice to have 30 Short-Medians line up for a group photo on the observation deck of the Empire State Building, or have 30 Short-Medians share a pint or 12 over at McSorley's, I suppose having it in Detroit is okay.

[GHoosdum]

Yes, it cannot be denied that George is very generous with his coffee shop, and that Deebe's was a decent location to hold the LAN at. However, based on my past experiences it's my opinion that Deebe's is far from an optimal location for a LAN event. The DSL connection was very slow. The power, while we did work the bugs out eventually, is still of an old spec and not up to the quality demands of a huge number of PCs (when compared to, say, the place here in Cincy that I mentioned, or prime's sarcnet HQ). The cooling system was not capable of handling the heat output of 30 humans and 30 PCs. The location did not lend itself to the common LAN party practice of just parking your car once and walking to any off-site food establishments.

[Straight_Man]

I love chicago. What a great town. From detroit, you can fly to chicago for about $40.

One other thing to keep in mind is that George offered us the upstairs as well as the downstairs. Theoretically, we could fit another 30 people upstairs. He stressed it several times during the event that the upstairs was ready and available for us.

I could justify coming to Chicago, have relatives there (brother's family, aunts and uncles and cousins) and friends there, grew up my teen years in Barrington. So, a combined-purpose trip would work and be justifiable for me-- if I flew, it would be cheaper for me to come late one week, wait until mid next week to fly out again, so having multiple goals would help. Ironically, it is cheaper overall for on-continent US travel NOT to have to travel weekends or close to them, so having places to stay for rest of time and also things to do, helps justify travel costs to a place for me.

[McBain]

What year are we talkin about for this lan? '04 or '05?

[QCH]

I'm thinking mid to late June 2005.

[leishi85]

chicago would also work for me, i also have family over there, and the travel wouldn't be much longer than going to detroit for us in the western michigan area.

[oCoMiK]

My two cents

First, planning a LAN is a very convoluted process. For those who are offering up their locales, understand that Prime and his crew put a lot of time and effort in making this happen. In even the best case scenario, planning an event of this magnitude can become a part time job + at best, especially as the event draws closer.

Second, LANs cost $$$. The fact that Prime was able to get DeeBees for free probably reduced the amount each attendee had to pay. I may be wrong but I just checked my local park district facility and they will rent their space for $100/hr. I'm sure this rate would be reduced for an extended period; however, it still wouldn't be as cheap as free.

Third, I'm happy to support whatever decision is reached on the venue. Actually I'm just excited that there is a chance that another one of these will happen. In regards to DeeBees, I believe it should be given first consideration when it comes to the next LAN. About the only drawback I see is the amount space available in the basement and I feel that multi-level gaming just doesn't have the same excitement as having everyone in the same area. As for the data connection this could either be upgraded via the provider or we could look to do some "line of sight" stuff.

Fourth, re: going to Cincy - I'd rather use my own machine than a "rented" system. I'm sure that most attendees would feel this way.

Fifth, In regards to Q's suggestion about Chicago. I'd be happy to help with the planning should everyone decide Chicago is the best venue.

Sixth, if it's held in a Northern clime, it would be my suggestion that it occur sometime in May or later. Q originally stated that the event was set to go in January. Two words that do not mix well are January and Michigan, especially as it relates to winter driving conditions.

Sorry so long...
Ocomik

[checkmate]

Prime I would say another 50 upstairs. Have you measured the area? There enough space for not only that but a crashing area also. So there would be a nice setup for a very large setup. Also, if the LAN is in a different state I can't go. If I can't go than I can't roast you guys in a few games.:)

[primesuspect]

I don't think we could fit 50 upstairs. George mentioned just the back half. It's about the same area as the basement. Another 20 definitely, maybe 30 if we squeeze like we did last weekend.

[checkmate]

Oh,that eplains why you said 30. Well you would most likely be correct and if we do we can use the theater screen for one of the computers to be able to watch the action on.
:Rocker:
Draw up another plan.:)

[profdlp]

I think the idea of having some interim sub-LAN's is a good one, not to replace THE annual LAN, but to allow those at the far edges of the country/world to meet one another. I would think a Florida and a California sub-LAN would be obvious choices, with maybe a "heartland" LAN for the "Big Twelve" area. A European LAN would be very cool, too. Maybe Dancer, Jon & Sally can set something up in OZ. :)

These could be held over the next year, leading up to the big event at the 2nd Annual S-M main gathering. The experience gained by those planning and executing the regional LAN's would no doubt be very helpful. The excitement generated would likely spark even more interest in the big production next year.

One thing is obvious - this year's LAN was a rousing success. Look at how many people there are (myself included) who can't wait for the next one.

Well done, prime! :)

[CB]

It does sound like a sencible idea to have some satalite LANs, especialy across the ocean, but the main drawback I see is that a lot of people would refrain from trying to find a way to the main event, if there was a satalite near them. That would still decrease attendance to the main event.

Also, I think that we're just going to have the grit our teeth and admitt that most of the highschool students who would like to come to the LAN, will simply have to wait until they are old enough to have control over their own lives before they can attend. It's sad, but we just wont be able to find a time/place that can make everyone's parents happy. If I was still a teenager, I wouldn't have been able to just up and go to detroit like that (and for good reason).

[Straight_Man]

My two cents
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Fourth, re: going to Cincy - I'd rather use my own machine than a "rented" system. I'm sure that most attendees would feel this way.

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Sorry so long...
Ocomik


True as to gamer's box, what I was thinking of was the network gear and server(s) in common use. Those need to be set up right and in common. To keep many people able to be gaming at once, the LAN might need more than once server in play at once also. AND more than one router.

[Thrax]

Having satellite LANs would reduce the impact of a central LAN.

[Straight_Man]

It does sound like a sencible idea to have some satalite LANs, especialy across the ocean, but the main drawback I see is that a lot of people would refrain from trying to find a way to the main event, if there was a satalite near them. That would still decrease attendance to the main event.

Also, I think that we're just going to have the grit our teeth and admitt that most of the highschool students who would like to come to the LAN, will simply have to wait until they are old enough to have control over their own lives before they can attend. It's sad, but we just wont be able to find a time/place that can make everyone's parents happy. If I was still a teenager, I wouldn't have been able to just up and go to detroit like that (and for good reason).

Also true-- unless the satellites that we acknowledge as "officially" impacting attendance are used to form teams, and not done at same time or close to, say three-four months before is what I was thinking. Think about the teams, how many of them were EACH centered around folks who lived in same area, knew each other at least some away from Short-Media?? If a group of folks who know each other and maybe have one parent willing to travel with them were to want to come, how would that affect younger teens abilities to come??? At that point, could they pool travelling??? Small van, team goes and travels together??? Some ideas.... To think about....

[Straight_Man]

Having satellite LANs would reduce the impact of a central LAN.

OR, make it better for all who came, by most of teh attendees havign proven skill to get selected locally to go in first place....

If we allow for an ad-hoc team or two, that would let folks who many know are good but do not know others in enough quantity to form a team, to come. Valid point Thrax, in theory it could if we are nto careful in setting up the aux LANs, but if it works right it could get better players there and set up a situation where a parent might be willing to travel in company with a group that all wanted to go so much that they talked a parent into helping get them there.

[GHoosdum]

Fourth, re: going to Cincy - I'd rather use my own machine than a "rented" system. I'm sure that most attendees would feel this way.


I'd just like to clarify that the venue I was referring to merely offers PCs for rent, as a convenience to those who are flying in (or people with crappy PCs or space constraints in the car) - it's not mandatory. Those who wanted to would still be able to use their own PCs at this place.

[QCH]

I'd just like to clarify that the venue I was referring to merely offers PCs for rent, as a convenience to those who are flying in (or people with crappy PCs or space constraints in the car) - it's not mandatory. Those who wanted to would still be able to use their own PCs at this place.

I can just see... a coin machine next to each terminal.... "Please insert $1.00 for 5 minutes of Computer use."

We could all run around with pockets full of quarters!!!! :buck:

No really... The idea of renting a PC for those that are flying in... good idea as long as they are good PC's (and Fold).

-qch

[Clutch]

For me it doesn't matter where the main event is, if I know ahead of time then I will be there rain or shine :) DeeBee's was great, we had some issues, but we know more of what we are getting into so the next would be smoothly.

The next lan I am flying, so someone be prepared to pick me and Ego up from the airport :)

[profdlp]

Even if I were flying in I would prefer to use my own computer.

However, if a decent monitor were available I'd gladly rent that, rather than risk having my 21" Nokia at the mercy of the baggage handlers. :eek2:

[oCoMiK]

...and set up a situation where a parent might be willing to travel in company with a group that all wanted to go so much that they talked a parent into helping get them there.

Has there been any consideration given to just stating that anyone attending the LAN must be 18 years of age or older? I guess I'm curious as to what the drawbacks would be, if any, by doing this.

Ocomik

www.ocomik.net
www.ocomik.net/blog/index.html

Not FOLDING, YET?

[primesuspect]

Well there's no technical reason why under-18 couldn't attend, but CB is right. We can't plan the LAN based on what people's parents want or when high school gets out. It's like I said back on page 1 - we just settle on a date and if people can't make it, there's always the next one.

[Thrax]

As a matter of liability, even last time, people under the age of 18 were required to sign waivers. I almost had to sign one, but the LAN was postponed thus alleviating the problem.


OR, make it better for all who came, by most of teh attendees havign proven skill to get selected locally to go in first place....

If we allow for an ad-hoc team or two, that would let folks who many know are good but do not know others in enough quantity to form a team, to come. Valid point Thrax, in theory it could if we are nto careful in setting up the aux LANs, but if it works right it could get better players there and set up a situation where a parent might be willing to travel in company with a group that all wanted to go so much that they talked a parent into helping get them there.

There's no proving of skill. Or local selections. What are you talking about? Setting up auxiliary LANs to bring better players? WTF?

[-tk]

OR, make it better for all who came, by most of teh attendees havign proven skill to get selected locally to go in first place....

If we allow for an ad-hoc team or two, that would let folks who many know are good but do not know others in enough quantity to form a team, to come. Valid point Thrax, in theory it could if we are nto careful in setting up the aux LANs, but if it works right it could get better players there and set up a situation where a parent might be willing to travel in company with a group that all wanted to go so much that they talked a parent into helping get them there.

proven skill to get selected??!?!?!....dude, this is a lan party, not studio54. Besides, if selection is based on skill, I won't even be able to make it...

[primesuspect]

Uhhhhh yeah, this is more of a social gathering. It's certainly not a competition. We just find out the best venue for the most of us to get together at one time so we can all hang out. I think the gaming is secondary...

[Aranyic]

;) the lans my clan has generally once a year (well one for those over 18 and a second for those over 21 so I am only ever elegable for one) have turned purely social. The PC's have stayed home ever since the first one, everyone just gets together and hangs out for a few days. I think last time they hit the beach one day, toured a aircraft plant/ship yard one day and then just hung out the 3rd day.

[Clutch]

OMG if we do it in Michigan next time you have to take me to the FORD plant Brian, pretty..pretty please.

[Black Hawk]

My $0.02 - If the planning can be fully done and not a day before the actual lan (:p), I think Deebe's would still be a good place to do it. Only thing is that the A/C and net connection would have to be worked out and plan the power well. It's free and I'm already used to the airports (;D). Maybe we could work something out with the internet connetion. Talk with the ISP and maybe temporarily increase the speed for a few days.

As for the seperate lan parties, we aren't that big of a community. I doubt more than 10-15 people would go. If we can agree on a location now, I don't think distance would be that much of a problem since there's enough time to save some $$$ for airfare. My flight was $358 w/ tax. One word of advice would be to go non-stop. It's a b!tch to wait 7hrs in a terminal ;)

[oCoMiK]

My $0.02 - If the planning can be fully done and not a day before the actual lan (:p), I think Deebe's would still be a good place to do it. Only thing is that the A/C and net connection would have to be worked out and plan the power well. It's free and I'm already used to the airports (;D). Maybe we could work something out with the internet connetion. Talk with the ISP and maybe temporarily increase the speed for a few days.

As for the seperate lan parties, we aren't that big of a community. I doubt more than 10-15 people would go. If we can agree on a location now, I don't think distance would be that much of a problem since there's enough time to save some $$$ for airfare. My flight was $358 w/ tax. One word of advice would be to go non-stop. It's a b!tch to wait 7hrs in a terminal ;)

Hey VOE... If they host it in Chicago, you're welcome to stay at Chez OConnor... I promise not to poison you like your last host ;D

Ocomik

[Black Hawk]

Lol ;D

[primesuspect]

Muwhwhhhahaaa the 1337 cold shall strike again :rarr:

[TheGr81]

What about multiple LANs? I see the flaw in having more than one at one time but what if you could set up smaller ones for those of us who live on the east/west coast. (I mean the events falling on different dates. Is that at all possible?)

Even IF we could get some kinda carpool plan set up to go from south Florida, I doubt I could go. I've never been out of state without my parents before, I doubt they'd let me go.

Being able to rent out a monitor would be a great idea. Carrying 21" is a PITA. I have enough trouble carrying around my own 19". Getting the damned thing out of the back seat of a cramped minivan sucks, after all the effort spent getting the thing in. The conditions for one LAN me and my friend regularly attend... (see sig) I wouldn't risk it if I went flying.

And one more thing. I'll bet the turnout for the next LAN will be much greater. Many people who didn't go (myself included) prolly took a look at the picture thread, and came up with a different opinion about going or not. I'm sure that thread and word of mouth (from those who did go) will change some people's minds. You guys got that covered?

-Rick

[EMT]

Hey guys, I'm interested in the next LAN, the last one sounded great :). Now I'm a little older & will be going to school in Illinois. As someone pretty distant (till August) from the central US I gotta agree with QCH's point, that you can't judge the best location from who came to the last one. But the short-medians around here (MD) are few and far between, so it's not like the middle of the east coast would be worth looking into at all.
Who knows where I might be in the summertime next year but a second opportunity for SM LAN is exciting!

[KingFish]

I've advocated a central location that would provide an opportunity for the most members to travel (which means driving) to a LAN location to enjoy the get together. It is social and about the gaming at the same time. Detroit and Chicago are hardly central locations although they provide those members in Ohio/Michigan/Illinois convenient access. However, a large contigent of the members live in the 'ol south. I was even amazed by the poll numbers recently of those that live in the south. Even so, I wouldn't advocate moving the event to the south where the most members live (or at least from what it appears from the poll). A good compromise can be reached that would present the least amount of burden to all members and not place it on those that live far. I think the Cincinnati idea is worth exploring although I'd like to see what could be done with Louisville. Having the infrastructure/place at a good price is a must as well as having a dedicated host or group that is willing to put in the time and know-how to pull it off successfully. Right now Detroit has all of these (minus central location) going for it from what I can tell. I think we owe it to ourselves to keep exploring our options at this point as the next LAN is quite a long time away. Planning everything in advance and coming to a consensus is key to the next successful LAN IMO. I believe having satellite LAN's would somewhat cheapen a big LAN and I agree with the post above that there wouldn't be that many members to support regional LAN's although it would make perfect sense for those in Europe/UK to hold one. I say we keep exploring our options in the meantime and see if anything surfaces that would be compelling enough to move it from Motor City. If it doesn't, keep what is working for right now.

KF

[Straight_Man]

Agreed. I would add this, it was the number of southerners that led me to think of a team approach, a group with a planned common goal is more likely to win over at least one kid's parents. And pooling long travel with larger groups is cheaper than small groups, for gas and such-- that is why car pools work, why boy Scouts travel often in van sized groups, why church youth groups travel in van size groups, and down here, why basketball teams travel in vans many times, and like that-- gear plus pooling and an adult driving 90% of the time. So a southern US regional, team-forming, LAN for those who live closer to each other in the South, might also make sense.

[Geeky1]

You know, I just thought of something. Yes, it was going to be a smartass response. No, it's probably not feasible. But, you know what? I like the idea anyhow. :D

I'm thinking Vegas. ;D

[Black Hawk]

What would be the point if alot of the people attending can't even enter a casino?

[Gargoyle]

I'm all for a Southern LAN (where's our smiley with the stars & bars? :D). Although if it was held in the deep deep south it'd be just as far for me. You know (nudge) Oklahoma is pretty central, as far as states go (nudge).

[Clutch]

The thing is we have a year to prepare, so if you want to attend the next lan, start saving money now. Put aside $20 a week or so and by the time for the lan if you have to FLY, etc..you will have the money to do so with. That is what I am going to do atleast. If you really want to go then no matter where it is, you will be there.

[oCoMiK]

Agreed. I would add this, it was the number of southerners that led me to think of a team approach, a group with a planned common goal is more likely to win over at least one kid's parents.

[Original Comment Removed]

I don't think we should be targeting one specific group of people in which to try and work the LAN scheduling around. If minors (with their parents permission) can attend then great but it should not be the primary focus.

Personally I see the LAN as an adult* activity, at least from a participant perspective. That's just my opinion and it is only that. If I'm being short-sighted let me know.

Ocomik

*By minor I'm referring to someone who's at least 17 or older. I NOT referring to the legal definition.

[MediaMan]

May I throw in my 2 cents here?

1) The location should be on a major flyway route. The more direct flights from various points the better.

2) The chosen LAN host city should have a resident network specialist(s) who can prepare the location ready for the players to walk in, plug in and play.

3) A budget should be set in advance and that budget has to cover a range of items not including food. EG space rental, monitors, power tie-ins etc.

4) Ultimately the LAN date should be set for an off-season time to avoid the peak accommodation and flight rates. It matters not that it is in warm weather as who goes outside anyway? After the pictures I saw...none of you have tans except for those who's tans are in the genes. :)

Most of you are in school so what's the easiest way to get a month to work in? Set up two polls. One poll is choice 1 where the selection is one of the 12 months and the second poll is choice two of the 12 months. Whichever month receives the most votes is the one to work towards.

I know PRIIME is invaluable with what it takes to procure things for a LAN. He also dumped personal money into it too...

I'd Like PRIME to post a synopsis of what he had to organize, get, steal, beg, borrow to make this happen...a checklist if you will.

THEN we can consider what city east or west coast. My vote is an all inclusive beach resort in Mexico...I can sit in a pool bar with a laptop and gunyou guys down. lol.

j/k about the resort.

[GHoosdum]

Mexico sounds good... but the water was cleaner in Detroit!

[oCoMiK]

May I throw in my 2 cents here?

It matters not that it is in warm weather as who goes outside anyway? After the pictures I saw...none of you have tans except for those who's tans are in the genes. :)


It does if your in Detroit in January trying to catch a few zzz's out in the car between sessions as well as those of us who will be driving to this thing. Sorry! :)

[MediaMan]

Yah...I'm in Vancouver...forgot about that..."cold" is 60 F. lol. We just worry about the rain in winter.

Okay...I'll be overly organized about this and set up a poll for May to October in two week time slices and that way we can get the general time period that works best for the majority.

Step two would be to decide a good city.

[QCH]

FIRST -->
The thing is we have a year to prepare, so if you want to attend the next lan, start saving money now. Put aside $20 a week or so and by the time for the lan if you have to FLY, etc..you will have the money to do so with. That is what I am going to do at least. If you really want to go then no matter where it is, you will be there.
$20 a week.... you renting a private jet??? I sure hope that air fare isn't $1000 to fly from east coast to the Midwest!!!! :buck:

SECOND -->
Mexico sounds good... but the water was cleaner in Detroit!
Just a bit better...

THIRD --> Ocomik claims to be a network guru... I know there are little copper thingys that have some colorful coatings and they are pushed into some plastic thingy and that plugs into another plastic thingy.... No really, For Chicago land, I think the network and Power can be handled easily...

Fourth --> I like the voting for dates thing... start now and let the basic month get picked then whittle it down to a specific date after a bit.

Fifth --> I would like to narrow down the areas and folks that are willing to host the LAN... Almost like a bidding process... the who, the where, the know how, the perks and such then vote.... We know Detroit (Prime and crew), Ohio (GHoosdum and Crew), and Chicago (QCH and crew that includes special appearances by ocomik).... who else? I've heard "Down south somewhere" but no one has stepped forth to organize it.....

-qch

[MediaMan]

Nice recap QCH :)


Vote for your dates everyone. (http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14338)


Step two will be to narrow down the best host city that's most convenient.

[Shorty]

$20 a month? For my ticket, I need to save that a week ;D

[MediaMan]

you and me both Dan. You and me both.

[oCoMiK]

Nice recap QCH :)


Vote for your dates everyone. (http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14338)


Step two will be to narrow down the best host city that's most convenient.

If QCH and I choose seperate dates and Chicago ends up being the city, do we have to have two seperate LANs? :)

[QCH]

Nice recap QCH :) Thank you... Call me MR. Recap. Normally reserved for getting "capped" in UT2004


$20 a month? For my ticket, I need to save that a week ;D
OK, for you, $20 a week is reasonable... unless you want to hire a private jet... you had better chip in a few hundred a month.

[oCoMiK]

THIRD --> Ocomik claims to be a network guru... I know there are little copper thingys that have some colorful coatings and they are pushed into some plastic thingy and that plugs into another plastic thingy.... No really, For Chicago land, I think the network and Power can be handled easily...

"Claims" implies that I may be the only one that believes it. I prefer IS instead of "claims to be" :)

Fifth --> ... and Chicago (QCH and crew that includes special appearances by ocomik)....
You know I got your back, after all who needs an MBA degree anyway... If the powers to be select Chicago, then you know I'll commit time, resources, and funds.

Ocomik ;D

[QCH]

"Claims" implies that I may be the only one that believes it. I prefer <b>IS</b> instead of "claims to be" ...
1st --> Sorry about the "claims" part... didn't want to put cables into your mouth.... but now that you claim to believe that you know networks....


...You know I got your back, after all who needs an MBA degree anyway... If the powers to be select Chicago, then you know I'll commit time, resources, and <b><font size=4>funds</b></font>.

2nd --> Whew.... Glad you got my back.... NO MANTOUCH!!!!!!

[MediaMan]

errrr...ick.


FYI...hotel room rates per person per night in Vancouver, BC. (CAD funds) in a typical hotel typically in August under a special deal.


Courtyard: 1 queen or 2 double beds - $99
Plaza: 1 queen or 2 double beds - $112
One Bedroom Condo: 1 queen bed - $149
Two Bedroom Condo: 2 queen beds - $179

There's a 200+ person LAN held here every year...www.fragmart.com

[profdlp]

...FYI...hotel room rates per person per night in Vancouver, BC. (CAD funds) in a typical hotel typically in August under a special deal....
At today's rates that $179 (CAD) Two Bedroom Condo equals $130 USD

Split four ways it would come to $32.50 a night. Since it's a condo, putting nine people on the floor in sleeping bags (assuming they can sneak by hotel security!) would lower the rate to $10 USD a night each.

I've always wanted to see Vancouver. :)

[Geeky1]

Well, Cincinnati is out. Why? See this (http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?p=141037#post141037) thread. There ain't no WAY I'm driving through there. ;D

[GHoosdum]

Well, Cincinnati is out. Why? See this (http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?p=141037#post141037) thread. There ain't no WAY I'm driving through there. ;D

I was SO THERE, dude!

[MediaMan]

At today's rates that $179 (CAD) Two Bedroom Condo equals $130 USD

Split four ways it would come to $32.50 a night. Since it's a condo, putting nine people on the floor in sleeping bags (assuming they can sneak by hotel security!) would lower the rate to $10 USD a night each.

I've always wanted to see Vancouver. :)



Hmmm...Let's toss some numbers into the air.

2 nights per person based on 2 sharing a room...Let's say that's $50 USD per person per night x 2 nights....

"Ballroom" to accommodate 50 players...Let's say that's...just a guesstimate...$2000

50 players ...total cost $140 per player.

That's too much for the convenience of a ballroom BUT...hmmm...I have a friend who has a studio (TV studio warehouse space) nearby the hotel I'm thinking of...which is about a 15 minute walk...2 minute drive.

Hmmm...

I know people at the hotel where I could have a private reception in an area of the bar for minimal cost for check-in...hmmm.

We are also a 10 minute walk from EA SPORTS too.

Qparadox...if you are reading this...I'm thinking of the Radisson on the highway by BCIT.

[primesuspect]

So I guess I'm NOT organizing the next LAN then? I mean, I don't really mind, but it just seems as if I've been sort of usurped here :eek3:

Planning the LAN was a big ordeal. I can tell you right off the bat that unless the reg fee is raised significantly, you either have to find a free place like I did, or not have T-shirts and door prizes. The reg fee that everybody paid covered essentially the T-shirts and the shipping fee for the t-shirts. There was no money left for anything else. Luckily we got free rent for the weekend, but the cables, extension cords, duct tape, and all the other little various sundries came out of my pocket. Dogsoldier provided the name tags at his expense, doug provided the majority of the door prizes at his expense (thanks, doug!) and shorty and I paid for the grand prize out of our pockets. So, whoever is organizing this thing better plan on spending some cash, or we need to talk about seriously upping the reg fee.

[MediaMan]

No way Prime...you are not getting out of it that easy. I just started the ball rolling for dates. You are da man. There's no way this could happen/be organized/actually work without you heading it up. :)

[primesuspect]

Well as I said earlier in the thread, if I'm heading it up, it's in Detroit.. There's no way I can successfully plan LAN 05 if it's in a different city.

[MediaMan]

Agreed.

Prime is central to the attendees. SM LAN 2004 would not and did not happen without you...it's your baby. :)

[oCoMiK]

So I guess I'm NOT organizing the next LAN then? I mean, I don't really mind, but it just seems as if I've been sort of usurped here :eek3:

I thought about this during my drive home and wondered if there was the appearance that folks were jumping the gun here.

Here's my take:

This if first and foremost the Short-Media LAN and as such I believe the "trifecta" (as I call you three) should be calling the shots. QCH and I are happy to help out but only if we have the support and blessing of the Short-Media principals.

Personally I'm sorry if you felt we over-stepped our bounds as we never intentionally meant to step on any toes.

Ocomik

[primesuspect]

No no no, it's not that, it's just that I didn't really even realize that there was a whole push to have it elsewhere. I mean, I understand that everybody wants it in their backyard because of financial reasons. Obviously everybody is going to want it in their city and find all the reasons why their city is best. My only point is that if the major portion of the potential attendees want it to be elsewhere, that's fine with me, I'll be there, but I can't possibly plan it if it's not in Detroit. I also want everybody to understand that planning this thing was a costly and stressful venture for me, and anybody else who wants to take it on should be forewarned of that.

[MediaMan]

the "trifecta"

OMG...we've been labelled. :0

As I'm sure everyone knows...cost is a factor. I, above all, know the cost of getting to a place...wherever it is...can be costly. (It was going to set me back $1300).

The reg fees are going to go up but with that will come added bonuses. There are, and these are just blue sky thoughts, considerations for catering (better food selection and easier on your pocketbook when all things are considered), better venue...all those sorts of things.

The city has not been decided but it does make practical sense to hold it in the organizers city....and this is Prime's baby. He knows how to put on a LAN and make all the connections work. The second choice is Vancouver where Prime comes and lives with me for a week prior to the event. Dan is in the UK..the last time I checked the company LADA did not seat 50 and can barely make it through a puddle let alone the Atlantic. Wherever the location is set to be ....it won't make everyone happy but it will be for the best overall for cost and convenience.

For now...we'll get the target date set and work the logistics from there. I know that I want to lend Prime a hand starting to cull prizes and other such stuff from sponsors to make it even better.

[primesuspect]

I'm really not sure how this whole discussion even came up, but at any rate, I sort of have a commitment to Deebe's as the venue for at least the next one as well. It works for 30, it can work for another 30, and the price is right. The price is that people don't bring in any outside food or drinks. Even though certain attendees didn't honor that rule at all times, it's very important to my personal word to George that the rule gets honored next time around. The network was pretty much spot on as far as the LAN went. The internet bandwidth was pretty low, to be sure (512K DSL).. I'm not sure what can be done about that - probably not much. However, if I am indeed planning the next event, it will very likely be at Deebe's again.

[MediaMan]

Can I get BAWLS as a sponsor? :)

[CB]

Actually that's a very good idea, MM!

Not specifically Bawls, but we could get a sponsor for the event. I wish I'd thought of it earlier. You can get companies to sponsor almost anything. I have some experience with this, so after we decide what city to put it in, I'll try to find us some sponsors in that area (unless, MM, you want to run with this instead, as it was your idea...). I probably can't get us any financial sponsors, but I could get us some free food or other products.

I get places like SoBee Tea and Snappy Tomato Pizza (both Cincy companies) to donate stuff to events all the time, and some of them are even smaller than our LAN party will be. The only thing they ask in return is that the event be named after them, or some space on our logo, stuff like that.

[MediaMan]

There are going to be many a good idea.

Unless AMD give us 50 FX-5x to give away...we're not naming the LAN after anyone...unless they have the processors or a bag of cash. BUT...definitely yes to on site bannerage, inclusion in the media releases and incorporation into logo as official sponsors.

We'll pursue sponsors after the LAN is mapped out for events, dates, etc. :) Good to have your input.

[oCoMiK]

the "trifecta"

OMG...we've been labelled. :0



It was either that or the "tri-lateral commission" :)

[Thrax]

The Triumvirate.

[profdlp]

It was either that or the "tri-lateral commission" :)
Yeah, seeing as how all the good names are already taken... :vimp:

[Lincoln]

The Triumvirate.
Indeed

[Black Hawk]

The Triumvirate.
You watch too much Pretender ;D

[Thrax]

What is Pretender?

[Clutch]

I like the idea of having it at DeeBee's again, but I'm still weird about the upstairs down stairs thing, but that is just me. But DeeBee's was very good to us.

The only other place I thought about was like in a room of a hotel or something like that, a big room with outlets everywhere and all. I don't know what the price would be on something like this, but I'm sure if we get a set number of people going, we can work out the reg. fee and all to make it work. As far as the prizes go we could do the same thing. I don't know about the rest of you, but I wouldn't mind putting in money for all of this.

I like the sponsors idea also, that would work.

[Thrax]

I like DeeBees, but the "No outside food and drink" rule pissed me off totally. I understand the idea, I do.. It just didn't bode well with me.

[MediaMan]

/me hears the Jeopardy theme.

Hmmm...how about this as our official symbol. (Ha...let's see how clever you guys are at figuring where this symbol comes from.)

[profdlp]

You watch too much Pretender ;D
Or maybe just knowledgeable about American History (http://www.fact-index.com/g/gr/great_triumvirate.html). :)

[MediaMan]

Wow Prof...yer fast on the trivia draw. :eek2:

[profdlp]

I like DeeBees, but the "No outside food and drink" rule pissed me off totally. I understand the idea, I do.. It just didn't bode well with me.
Would the owner be amenable to having attendees pay a fee to have this rule waived? Free rent for the room(s) would be too much to ask; maybe a $20 (or whatever) surcharge for a special sticker on your name tag allowing outside food.

Personally, it wouldn't bother me to live with the rule as it is. Just an idea to throw in the mix... :)

[Thrax]

Or maybe just knowledgeable about American History (http://www.fact-index.com/g/gr/great_triumvirate.html). :)

Prof got the reference. :)

[profdlp]

Prof got the reference. :)
Thank you, Mr. Wyatt, Washington-Lee HS in Arlington, VA, for leaving me with a lifelong love of history. :respect:

[GHoosdum]

I don't think canning the outside food/drink rule is possible. At any rate, I thought that the folks that planned this event did a phenomenal job, especially considering that they'd never planned a LAN party before. There were a few things I'd have done differently, but that's what next year's for. The reason I put forward Cincy as a possible venue was mainly to take the strain off of the crew (particularly prime!) that planned this event, not because I had any problem with it (the network, in particular, was very well executed (thanks to mondi's constant vigilance, no doubt)). Brian, if you're comfortable (heh!) taking on the workload of basically being THE central dude again, I'd love to make the trip up to Detroit again next year.

[Geeky1]

The no outside food/drink rule is a little absurd. I realize that the guy is hosting the thing for free, and that he needs to make some money off it, but I'm not paying $1 for a soda when I can get a 24 pack for like $5. It's just not realistic.

[CB]

I like the idea of having it at DeeBee's again, but I'm still weird about the upstairs down stairs thing, but that is just me.

It's not just you.

[primesuspect]

The no outside food/drink thing is not at all absurd. He has a business to run, and his electric bill is going to go through the roof for this month. It's his only way of making money off of us. It's totally fair, and I completely support the idea.

[Geeky1]

The no outside food/drink thing is not at all absurd. He has a business to run, and his electric bill is going to go through the roof for this month. It's his only way of making money off of us. It's totally fair, and I completely support the idea.

I understand that, and like I said, I agree that he has to be able to cover his expenses.

However, I'm not interested in dropping $100 or whatever on food, either. :-/

[primesuspect]

It wasn't a lock-in.. People could go out and eat/drink whatever they wanted (and we did)... He just wanted to make sure that nobody brought any food or drinks in (even though people were sneaking in MOUNTAIN DEW... ahem)

[Geeky1]

Ah. Not ideal, but not exactly anything to complain about, either, in that case.

[profdlp]

I think the way to settle it is to explore what the alternatives would cost.
Hmmm...Let's toss some numbers into the air...

"Ballroom" to accommodate 50 players...Let's say that's...just a guesstimate...$2000...
That's probably a little low for three days with 24 hour access. Assuming 40 people attend that's another $50 apiece - on top of the other fees. If they know we're bringing 40 computers it could be even more (to cover the electric bill). Add in the fact that if it's a hotel conference room they would probably stipulate that a certain number of hotel rooms would have to be sold to attendees as part of the deal and it suddenly becomes a very expensive weekend. Figure what you would spend on food in any case and that $50+ would cover a substantial part (or all) of the restaurant markup.

Hell, you'd pay $4.50 for a watered-down lukewarm coke at a ballgame. :bawling:

====> VOTE HERE (http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14383) <====

[Shorty]

Just my thought ....

Brian put his heart and soul (and then some) into making a seriously fun, friendly and top class event.. ( I wasn't able to attend :( ), got a good venue and worked damn hard :)

I know from many, many convo's how hard he worked on it with his team of planners and I think (for whats it's worth) that as it is his baby.. it should continue to be so. Why try to fix what isn't broken when DA MAN has all the resources to hand? ;)

We all have our goals and I think Earl Ambrozy ESQ. will steer the planning great once a date is decided and that it should be left to him to do as he did a great job this time round.. it can only get better :)

[MediaMan]

What Dan said.


I tried to say it a while back but Dan said it better.

[GHoosdum]

Brings tears to the eyes. *snif*

[oCoMiK]

The no outside food/drink rule is a little absurd. I realize that the guy is hosting the thing for free, and that he needs to make some money off it, but I'm not paying $1 for a soda when I can get a 24 pack for like $5. It's just not realistic.

My capitalist (assumption made) friend you have to understand that their needs to be an upside for the owner of DeeBee's. I'm pretty sure if he waives the no food/drink rule than we will have to pay a fee of some sort, which is only appropriate.

In the overall scheme of things DeeBees really bent over backwards to make sure that we were satisified. From my naive perspective at the time, when we started experiencing power problems I figured the owner would just tell us we were out of luck. No Way... He opened up other parts of the building so we could tap power from there.

During one of my visits up to the deli I mentioned in passing that the honey mustard they were serving was really good. As I was heading out to make my way back home to Chicago, one of the employees handed me a slip of paper with the brand of honey mustard listed on it. Now for someone who preaches customer service to my employee's, this really impressed me and showed me that going the extra mile was just the norm for the DeeBees staff.

As for the no outside food rule, I'm fine with it. I'm also open to contributing some dollars if we wish to ask to have it waived to cover any fees that DeeBees will need to charge. Either way I'm sure I'll be eating there because the food was so good! :)

Ocomik

www.ocomik.net

[GHoosdum]

You make some good points there ocomik. They went so far in allowing us to tap power, that they offered to let us drill through the floor to tap power from upstairs!

My only regret was that I didn't get any food from Deebe's. I bought a few drinks (3), but no food. It looks like I'll get the opportunity to remedy that next year!

[TheSmJ]

I'd be all for a small cover charge (say, $5 above the normal $20) so we could get free fountan drinks. Those who pay the extra bit would get a special sticker on their nametag (like someone else already mentioned) and wouldn't have to worry about paying for fountan drinks for the duration of the LAN.

If enough of us paid this, we could buy our own freakin bag of the syrup!

[GHoosdum]

I'd be all for a small cover charge (say, $5 above the normal $20) so we could get free fountan drinks. Those who pay the extra bit would get a special sticker on their nametag (like someone else already mentioned) and wouldn't have to worry about paying for fountan drinks for the duration of the LAN.

If enough of us paid this, we could buy our own freakin bag of the syrup!

I though prime tried that but it didn't work this time? Anyway, I think $5 would not be enough to make it worth their while. Maybe if we only got one cup and had refills or something. But even so, if they can make $1 per fountain drink off of somebody, or $5 for the whole weekend... what would you rather do? (again, from a business standpoint as ocomik pointed out)

[primesuspect]

Yeah, trust me when I say there's no way that george would go for that. the $1.25 fountain drink is his #1 profit center.

[oCoMiK]

Just my thought ....

Brian put his heart and soul (and then some) into making a seriously fun, friendly and top class event.. ( I wasn't able to attend :( ), got a good venue and worked damn hard :) ...



Ditto...

Instead of trying to make this thing into LANWAR... Let's focus our energies on how we can assist the SM crew to make this event better...

If there's anything that I've learned over the years, it is that $$$ play a huge role in assuring the success/failure of an event. It would be my suggestion that we create a SM LAN fund that participants can donate to. I know for me personally that $20 dollars made me feel like I was robbing Brian. I'm not wealthy but I would have happily paid 3 to 4 times that just to attend the event.

Ocomik

www.ocomik.net
www.ocomik.net/blog/index.html

P.S. Is there anyway to turn off the smileys on the right side of the screen? It makes me feel like I'm goofing off when I should be working!

[QCH]

Well.... I apologize if I stepped on toes but I thought the idea of moving the LAN was OPEN. Various people have offered different locations and I even mentioned having a bidding process for different locations.

I may not have setup a LAN before but I do have experience with organizing events. My father is the membership director for the chamber of commerce and he REALLY knows how to setup an event.

Ocomik, my father, and I are working on venues that will incorporate discounted hotel rates, free convention hall, unlimited access to the room, possibly a banquet for Friday night. We were looking into having event sponsors (small logos on t-shirts) so we can get things as cheap as possible.

What we need is a venue that is setup for power and space. Each person that shows up to the LAN takes up the space of 2 so a convention room or hotel reception room that can hold 120 people is what we need. Going with a place like that, we can get table and chairs thrown in. Most places in the Chicago area are willing to work out deals to get the rooms booked. You add a sponsor or 2 at $500 each... we get some prizes and some food, the sponsors get their name and logo on a t-shirt and a banner....

Brain spent money out of his pocket to make SM LAN'04 a great party. Could things have gone better, yes. Was this due to lack of heart or funds... NO. This was the first year at this place, the first time organizing... I feel bad that Brain had to do so much and I want to help out by making next years easier on the Detroit staff. ALWAYS having the LAN in Detroit will alienate some people. Moving the LAN between a few nicely organized places will allow more people through out the country (and Canada) to experience the LAN. I didn't think the SM LAN was a PRIME only event. If that was the case, the point should have been addressed a week ago when the subject of next years LAN was started.

If the owners, staff, and members feel that the LAN is better left to the Detroit crew... fine. PUT IT IN BLACK AND WHITE and I'll drop what I'm doing. Either way, I'm planning on being at the LAN next year.

-qch

BTW... busted up my shoulder last night and I am on meds right now... so give me a break if this ticks someone off....

[GHoosdum]

If we get some corporate sponsorship, that would be cool... I wouldn't mind having AMD pay for our T-shirts (and put an AMD logo on them) next year so Brian doesn't have to pay for them.

[DogSoldier]

I think that's a great idea. If we could get some hardware/software companies on-side.. that would go along way towards helping pay for the event. The only problem I can see, if that we're not a huge Lan... corporates might even equate this to a clan gathering. If you guys do get serious about sponsership, we need to start promoting and marketing the event. This is a list of sponserships for a Lan held locally in Ottawa, http://www.lpbasylum.com/sponsors.php
I'd recommend contacting them and drilling them for info.

In any case.. I think $50 US is a fair reg fee. Nice round number, equally divisible. I actually spent around 5 times that in food, lodging, gas and crack cocaine.

//edit I think we should establish some door prize rules..

You're disqualified if;

You own 5 or more computers.
You didn't register by the closing date.
You have a fop
You wear obscenely loud t-shirts.
You own everyone at UTK4-DM.
You mention "8 Mile Road".
You walk around with tin-foil on your head.
You're related to SM Staff/Lan organizers or Brian Ambrozy.

These are preliminary of course, just throwing them up there for discussion.

[profdlp]

...I actually spent around 5 times that in food, lodging, gas and crack cocaine.
Yeah... these gas prices are getting out of hand... :rolleyes:

[oCoMiK]

Ocomik, my father, and I are working on venues that will incorporate discounted hotel rates, free convention hall, unlimited access to the room, possibly a banquet for Friday night. We were looking into having event sponsors (small logos on t-shirts) so we can get things as cheap as possible.
I know it was discussed but I don't believe I'm actively working on anything. Sure it doesn't hurt to think about alternative venues and possibly get an idea what these venues might cost but the reality is NO ONE has tapped Chicago as the place for the next SM LAN. I don't want to give anyone the perception that WE are planning some rogue SM LAN.
Brain spent money out of his pocket to make SM LAN'04 a great party. Could things have gone better, yes. Was this due to lack of heart or funds... NO. This was the first year at this place, the first time organizing... I feel bad that Brain had to do so much and I want to help out by making next years easier on the Detroit staff. ALWAYS having the LAN in Detroit will alienate some people. Moving the LAN between a few nicely organized places will allow more people through out the country (and Canada) to experience the LAN. I didn't think the SM LAN was a PRIME only event. If that was the case, the point should have been addressed a week ago when the subject of next years LAN was started.

If the owners, staff, and members feel that the LAN is better left to the Detroit crew... fine. PUT IT IN BLACK AND WHITE and I'll drop what I'm doing. Either way, I'm planning on being at the LAN next year.
There is definately differences of opinions on whether the Detroit location alienates people. For me it worked in Detroit the first time and I feel that it will easily work there again. Let's not get the cart before the horse.

#107 This thread
Brian Quote: "Well as I said earlier in the thread, if I'm heading it up, it's in Detroit.. There's no way I can successfully plan LAN 05 if it's in a different city.

I think this is pretty black and white. The event is known as the SM LAN and Brian is one of the principals of SM.

I hope I'm not sending missed signals here but my basic message is that I'm interested in supporting the SM LAN "NO MATTER" where it is held. If it's in Chicago, I'm here to help, In Detroit, I'm here to help, Puerto Rico, ... You get my drift.

MY BIGGEST FEAR IS THAT THIS THREAD WILL CAUSE CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS TO DECIDE TO NOT DO THE SM LAN BECAUSE OF ALL OF THE ACTIVE DIALOGUE. I DO NOT WANT THIS TO HAPPEN!!!

For the time being I'm out of this thread. All of my specific feelings re: this issue can be found within this thread. I will happily go along with whatever Brian decides is the best location for the SM LAN.

Q - Sorry to hear about your shoulder - No hard feelings.

Ocomik

[primesuspect]

Whoa... This is getting crazy... I'm not even sure how this whole discussion of having it in another city/venue got started. This is all seeming sort of hazy and dreamlike to me right now. These are the facts:

LAN '04 was, in my opinion, a success.

The facility was not perfect, but it was pretty damned good

No facility will ever be perfect

I was assuming that I was planning LAN '05

If I plan LAN '05, it will be in Detroit, very likely at Deebe's again - black and white

See, we're talking about growing this thing, talking about corporate sponsorships and huge venues, and more than doubling the registration fee. Whoa! Reign in the horses! This thing is PRIMARILY A SOCIAL EVENT from my perspective. Incresing the size and bringing in corporate sponsors just sounds NUTS to me. WTF?!?! This was a gathering of 30 friends. Maybe part of the problem is this huge divide of ideas on what the LAN "should" be. I mean, I was operating under the assumption that next year's lan would be just a better version of this year's.. More friends, etc.

Tell you what. I'm taking a couple of weeks off from this whole ordeal. The LAN was just a week and a half ago, and we're already stressing about next year's... I just bought a house, and I'm going to start moving today. I'm getting ready for the party (http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14307) I'm throwing this weekend. It's a busy time for me. I'm going to breathe for a bit, have some fun, and then get back to the LAN discussion in a couple of weeks.

[Jengo]

i dont care WHERE the lan is next year. im going. Even if i have to sell everything in this room. im going.

Hopefully '05 will be just as fun as it was this year.

[mmonnin]

I dont mind the whole no outside food thing. I would have most likely have spent more then.

I guess I am out of the door prizes if DogSoldier makes the rules. I am a bit past the 5 computer limit at like 7. Wow I thought I had more, time to build another I guess.:) Hehe

[Clutch]

We can make room at DeeBee's for more people. I mean in the back we had those two plastic racks we could probably move to put a table or two there. I feel that we could fit more people in the basement if we just moved some stuff. DeeBee's was a great place IMO.

[QCH]

Like I said... SM LAN'05, I'm there... Where ever it is....

Nice recap QCH :)
Vote for your dates everyone. (http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14338)
Step two will be to narrow down the best host city that's most convenient.

I thought the members asked to look into somewhere else and that was an option. I see that for SM LAN'05 in not really open for discussion. Since Brian has said that he assumed that he would be organizing the next SM LAN and now that MediaMan has claimed that Brian is "The Man", that's it... SM LAN'05 is in Warren, MI.... Brain will host the LAN, and I'll back him up much as I can. No hard feelings. I was only trying to provide another option, that's it. Case closed.

Sit back and relax, Brian. Enjoy the "fun" ;D of moving and we can end this discussion.

The next time we should talk is to narrow down the dates... That's it.

-qch

[mmonnin]

There is more room for more people, the power would be the issue.

[KingFish]

I don't know if I started the whole thing or not but I don't want to see this denigrate into something negative when the LAN is such a great concept. The rationale at the beginning was to explore the options of having it in a city next year that was convenient for the most people to drive the least overall to give the most people the chance to drive to the LAN. The discussions has taken on a whole new life into other areas not intended. The dialogue has been good on exploring the options for having the venue moved and it is apparent that the only viable alternative would either be in Chicago with QCH/ocomik organizing it or somewhere around the northwest usa/vancouver area with Doug organizing that event. It looks like none of the locations would be particularly central for the most amount of people so I'd say don't mess with a winning formula that is known to work. Sure, maybe it's not perfect, but it's certainly workable and there are active measures to address the problems that have arisen. The last thing we want here is people getting alienated and frustrated and turning cold to the whole idea in the first place. Let's not descend into a heated debate about it but continue to discuss the pros and cons of various elements of the LAN. Let's remain objective and not turn it into something personal. It appears, unless someone steps forth with a solid workable solution that takes into account the many many factors needed to make a LAN a success, that the best solution thus far is to leave it in Detroit. We still have plenty of time, no need to get too stressed about it this far in advance. Brian, enjoy your new house, kick back and relax, and I may see you up there for next year or whenever. The discussion is good, let's not kill this thread.

KF

[GHoosdum]

I think the possibility of changing locations was first brought up in the picture thread, and then this thread was started because there was too much OT discussion of the next LAN in the other thread.

I don't know if I made this clear enough, but I had a tremendously great time at this year's LAN. I think Brian did an excellent planning job. I am fully behind anything he decides to do with LAN '05.

[DogSoldier]

I agree, Bruce spent his time and resources to ensure the event was a success.. and I for one appreciate it. I'm probably being selfish here, but I thought the suggestion about sponsership was a good one. Short-Media is a hardware/software specific site and I thought we could use that to our advantage, that is, to obtain sponserships of some kind.. normally this includes free hardware as door/tourny prizes and the like. In return we need to include their logo in our collateral, or host their banners, posters at the event.. I think that's a pretty good trade-off for some free hardware/software.

However this next animal evolves, you can be sure I'll be making my time available to produce whatever graphics (And name-tags) are neccessary to help "polish" the event.

[Shorty]

Just to help those grumbling about distance...

Take a map.. and map Cambridge to any of those states/places.. and then see how that compares to anyone else ;D

I think I win :D

[Thrax]

No matter where you put the LAN, people will be alienated.

Therefore, considering Brian's willingness to do it again, his past experience this year, the cheap reg fee, the free location, it should be his project until he says otherwise.

He started it, he organized it. Wouldn't be fair to take it from his hands.

[primesuspect]

Bump for continued discussion.

Here's what I'm going to do: I'm going to talk to George about different ways to work around the food/drink thing. I also want everybody to know that I did broach the subject with him before LAN '04. He was immediately disapproving of the idea. His thoughts were (I'm paraphrasing), "Look, my goal is to provide you guys a space for your event that will be mutually beneficial. If outside food and drinks are brought in, that significantly reduces my benefit from this event." to which I wholeheartedly agreed. The food at Deebe's, as most attendees will attest, is really good. A huge sandwich (a meal itself) is about $6.00 ($7.00 for the "I'm a pig" one). I mean, yeah, you could go down the street to ram's horn or to Burger King (http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14428), but you're not gonna spend much less than $6.00 anyway, plus you have to drive over there. The drinks can get expensive, especially since they are so damned good (Peach Jet Tea, anyone?) and you find yourself ordering just one more. The pop is cheap, on par with any other food establishment ($1.25 for a large) but there are no refills. Of course there are no refills. $1.25 for an entire weekend of pop drinkage doesn't make sense. We still got to leave and eat elsewhere. I guess I just don't see the food/drink thing as being that big of a deal.

[Geeky1]

With the clarification that's been given, I don't think its that big of a deal either, actually.

[KingFish]

I would agree with that. George has to get some benefit from it especially if he is bending over backwards to accomodate the event. I don't see it being that big of a deal either.

On another related subject, what sights/landmarks/tourist traps does Detroit have to offer that you'd recommend prime?

KF

[primesuspect]

Well, I know that Clutch was really excited to see the Ford plant.. They just completely redid the Rouge plant, it's now like a "showcase auto plant" -- very eco-friendly, grass roofs, natural wetlands habitat surrounding it, extreme recycling, biological wastewater filtering, etc. I'm kinda interested to see it myself.

There's a number of "MUST TRY" food establishments. I will confidently say that Detroit is the home of one of THE BEST Chicken Wings restaurants in the country. Nobody got a chance to try it for LAN 04 but they are just incredible.

There's Greektown, which is always a big tourist destination. Royal Oak is a happening night spot. There are casinos for the over-21 crowd who are into that sort of thing. And for the extreme crowd, prostitution is legal just across the river in Windsor, Ontario (canada) ;D

[KingFish]

I'm not that extreme. I'm rather married. I can go to the "look but don't touch" places though. I can put away some chicken wings, especially if it's Hooters. I may endeavor on some side trips for the heck of it.

KF

[QCH]

How do we work the upstairs at Deebee's? With the language (b!tch... Crap... God D@mn it...) and the mantouch'n gags? Wouldn't the upstairs crew be forced to tone down a bit. Otherwise, the normal patrons may be offended.

Could we work out a curtain across the back (or partitions) and then "Sleep upstairs" and run the server upstairs? I figure downstairs, we move all the extra chairs and storage shelves out of the way and really try to maximize the space downstairs. We'll need more fans... I think we can get 40 people downstairs without cramping too much. Overflow can go upstairs but with the understanding... WATCH you language until after 10:00 PM. Just my thoughts...

I wouldn't mind a Plant trip, but in the three day's, I will want to play and hang as much as possible.

-qch

[profdlp]

...I'm going to talk to George about different ways to work around the food/drink thing...
As a businessman yourself, maybe he'd be candid enough to give you an idea of how he did financially for the weekend. Maybe if he was guaranteed a certain profit he would amend the rule. (As I've said before, I personally would have no problem with the policy as it stands now.)

[Geeky1]

With the language (b!tch... Crap... God D@mn it...)

That's it? You haven't heard me work on my computer yet... ;D

[primesuspect]

Yeah, I agree that the space downstairs could be maximized quite a bit. I also agree that being "upstairs" would be awkward. I think theoretically we MIGHT be able to squeeze 45 people down there.

We would definitely need some ventilation at that point. Fans at both outdoor entrances (the obvious front one and the obscure back "fire exit" one.)

[Straight_Man]

I would agree with that. George has to get some benefit from it especially if he is bending over backwards to accomodate the event. I don't see it being that big of a deal either.

On another related subject, what sights/landmarks/tourist traps does Detroit have to offer that you'd recommend prime?

KF

I actually think George should get something out of it. How about this??? Extend the lan, for one year, to four days for those who can come and stay all four-- take first day, install a hardwired wiring job for networking only in about half a day, take rest of day and do things most would not necessarily want-- other than gaming. Collect enough from all who come that year so the place could have network wires safely left in place. Then George has a place that is LAN wired for other meetings, if he were to own and provide or purchase a router that could be wired in for downstairs. He gets a free network hardwiring job, among other things-- if you bring him into planning the wiring job, do you think he would agree, Prime??? With that there, if done carefully and major lines labelled and a network wiring diagram provided, the setup for most future and for repeat LANs at Deebe's would be easier and much faster (until and IF the LAN outgrows DeeBe's). Folks could spend more time gaming and socializing.

[QCH]

I actually think George should get something out of it. How about this??? Extend the lan, for one year, to four days for those who can come and stay all four-- take first day, install a hardwired wiring job for networking only in about half a day, take rest of day and do things most would not necessarily want-- other than gaming. Collect enough from all who come that year so the place could have network wires safely left in place. Then George has a place that is LAN wired for other meetings, if he were to own and provide or purchase a router that could be wired in for downstairs. He gets a free network hardwiring job, among other things-- if you bring him into planning the wiring job, do you think he would agree, Prime??? With that there, if done carefully and major lines labelled and a network wiring diagram provided, the setup for most future and for repeat LANs at Deebe's would be easier and much faster (until and IF the LAN outgrows DeeBe's). Folks could spend more time gaming and socializing.

Good idea.... I would be more than willing to "pull cable" and help setup a permanent network. That would save a lot of time and effort for future LAN's.

As for the setup, I figured that each table would have three network lines. That way we can tape them under the tables to avoid all the problems that we had with cords all around. Same with power. Each table would have 2 power strips to allow all the extension cords to be run prior to people arriving.

-qch

[Clutch]

As long as Brian doesn't do the wiring then we should be set to go, hehe Did anyone trip over the mountain of wires in the middle, haha

[mmonnin]

If we kept the downstairs to computers only we would fit, as stated above, 40-45 people in there I would think.

I wouldnt mind seeing some sites of detroit or wherever the LAN is going to be held.

[KingFish]

I think a side trip or two would be pretty cool. I'd hate to say that I've been to Detroit and only saw a basement with 40 dudes the whole weekend.

/me shudders at that one thought

Is Hooters on the list of historic places for their chicken wings? Oh well, sounds good anyway.


KF

[profdlp]

...Is Hooters on the list of historic places...?
If it isn't, it should be. I would imagine that if 45 of us showed up there one night we could make a little history. :wow2:

[Clutch]

Trip to the FORD plant w00t

[checkmate]

What is a LANWAR? :mouldy:

Primesuspect, I could ask my dad the squarefootage of the basement and than we can try and figure it out that way and what the area for a basic setup of a computer and all that good stuff. :Rocker:

[QCH]

LANWAR is a really big LAN Game... see here (http://www.lanwar.com/)

[GHoosdum]

What is a LANWAR? :mouldy:

The largest LAN party in the US. www.lanwar.com

It's a lot bigger and a lot LESS fun than the SM LAN.

[checkmate]

That is really different. Have you guys decided on a price for the LAN?

[QCH]

No...Brian/Prime is taking a break for a while. After a few months, he'll start the planning again. I would imagine it will be around $25 or $30 next year.

[checkmate]

I better get working then so that Ican scrape up some money for hardware and the rest of the fixens. Then I will have what I need to go to the LAN.

[primesuspect]

You have about a year to work on it, Nick :)

[checkmate]

Whew, I got a little worried. :thumbup Just kidding. Well let me know if there are any developments while I am not online. Thanx.

[Straight_Man]

The nice thing about discussing ahead is we can somewhat brainstorm, ie throw ideas out and see what others think and then admins\leaders\etc. have a way to see how many like what. Then they can plan and meet what most folks want and meet what some folks think they need. Preplanning feedback is good thing....

[checkmate]

Well then, start brainstorming. Ideas anyone?

[profdlp]

Well then, start brainstorming. Ideas anyone?
You go first. :p

[checkmate]

I don't really have any.

[bothered]

Hold it in Manchester, you won't get the sun streaming through the windows and the kettles always on. Everything else will follow.
Storm away guys.

[Leonardo]

Well, let's see. In August I'm either moving to Portland, Oregon or Anchorage, Alaska. Hmm, I guess those locations aren't central enough, are they? ;D

[keto]

Trip to the FORD plant w00t

Clutch, you (and many others, I'm sure) would LOVE the Henry Ford Museum of History (I don't think that's the exact name, but anyways). It's primarily about transportation, cool old cars, trains, planes. I was with Ford for 10 years and made 3 or 4 trips to Dearborn, got to go to the museum one time and would happily go back. ymmv.

[CB]

Mmmmm..... Old Machines....

[Clutch]

They have to have some kick ass mustangs at that plant, must see them...

[checkmate]

OFF SUBJECT! :topic: Let us start out than with dicussing how many people.

[Straight_Man]

Well then, start brainstorming. Ideas anyone?

Sorry, my brainstorms are too LONG for here, I guess. Admins, mods, all sorts of folks keep telling me to SHORTEN myself, so since am already too short for my liking now, will end my contributions as far as creative ideas for LAN.

[Black Hawk]

OFF SUBJECT! :topic: Let us start out than with dicussing how many people.
A date hasn't been set and the date would be pretty far away to really know who can make it.

[mmonnin]

Clutch, you (and many others, I'm sure) would LOVE the Henry Ford Museum of History (I don't think that's the exact name, but anyways). It's primarily about transportation, cool old cars, trains, planes. I was with Ford for 10 years and made 3 or 4 trips to Dearborn, got to go to the museum one time and would happily go back. ymmv.

I saw it like 2 or 3 summers ago. It was awesome.

[McBain]

Pfft, that thing is like a mile from my house. Kinda boring...you'd be better off going to Greenfield Village(its right next door) and going into that museum, tons of kick ass old cars and planes. Cool **** too, the car kennedy was whacked in, **** like that.

[KingFish]

You have some url's or pics for Greenfield Village? What all does it have to offer and why would it be a better place to visit than other tourist traps? Thanks for the input....

KF

[McBain]

http://www.hfmgv.org/museum/default.asp

Thats the museum part, the village part can be a decent look around too, but only if its nice weather and you want to see some cool old ****(i.e., real blacksmith, real glassblower, real tinsmith...things of that sort)

If I were from out of town and was checking out the metro area, I'd definitely check out that whole Henry Ford Village complex(killer IMAX, saw the 3rd matrix there, Museum, The Village).

I'd also make sure I got some decent Arab food considering the population of muslims/arabs/chaldeans well exceeds 100,000 in metro(mostly in dearborn).

I was on the rouge river plant tour, where the make the new F-150. Its ok, nothing to get your panties in a twist about.

If I were 19 or older, and not quite 21, I'd head to Patrick O'Ryans in Canada for a night out. If you're 21 or older, the Old Shileglegh in greek-town is a must.

Casinos are hot as well, and maybe go to a tigers game(8$ for bleacher seats with pepsi and a hot dog included, plus you can sit pretty much anywhere you want)

[KingFish]

Good deal. I can get into the nostalgia thing with the village. Patrick O'Ryans sounds really cool and appeals to the Irish in me. We have plenty of casinos here and can drive to one within ten minutes of where I live so I doubt if I would throw my money away at one of those up there. I'll have to check the Tigers schedule. It's been a while since I've been to a major league game. Thanks for the info. It gives a lot of good choices to decide from.

KF

[checkmate]

OFF TOPIC AGAIN!Comeon guys

[Black Hawk]

Chill out. There's still a year left to plan.

[checkmate]

Yeah you are probably right. I may need to calm down a little but I am just so excited to be participating in the discussion for the next LAN party. :buck: