Air or Water Cooling?

[abhi63]

Hi,

I have an 2500 Barton overclocked to 3200 speeds (2.2GHz). I have been reading many reviews and threads on cooling. From what i've heard from Geeky, I would be inclined to buy an Aerocool HT-101. I don't move my computer around alot, so I don't think the size will be a problem.

I have also heard good things about the Thermaltake SLK-800/900 with a Smart Fan 2. I already own a Volcano 9. Can I use the fan from that?

I am willing to spend up to around $60.

I also found a cheapish water cooling kit from Q-tec - KS70 CPU Water Cooler Bay.

Which of the two are better? I am open to any suggestions regarding other methods of cooling.

Thanks.

[Thrax]

1. Kits are generally ugly things for watercooling. Whilst they're beginner-friendly, they're often grossly inferior to buying separate parts and building it yourself. The initial investment gives excellent performance in return. A GOOD water cooling setup is ~$300.

2. The Aerocool 101 is a good CPU cooler, but at $51-$60, it's also freakishly expensive. The Thermalright SLK-947/8 (Or the SLK-900) is just as good, for roughly half the price. Slap a Thermaltake SmartFan II on there, and you control the cooling/noise ratio that you desire.

3. Yes, you can use your existing fan.

[dragonV8]

Though i'm no cooling expert, i can say that by following Geeky1's advise, our 3 puters fitted with Aerocool HT101's are definitely running a lot cooler.

We did some readings before fitting them. Combined with changing the cheap cases to Antec Super Lanboy's and changing the heat sinks to the HT101's, the temp dropped by around 10c. :)

The link below has a few pics of them.

http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15762

[muddocktor]

Like Thrax said, good watercooling is going to set you back $200-300, so unless you want to make that kind of monetary investment in an aging platform (socket A), your best bet is a premium hsf like the Aerocool Geeky said or the Thermalright SLK900/SLK947 series. I've just about switched all my rigs that are aircooled to the Thermalright products because they perform very well for me. If you can get the Aerocool for cheaper than the Thermalrights then go for it, otherwise get a Thermalright heatsink. Also, Thermaltake has come out with the SilentTower 4 in 1 CPU Cooler for Intel P4 478 & Socket T, AMD K7 & K8, with Heatpipe Cooling, Model "CL-P0025 (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-106-043&depa=0) that looks like it should work very well too, but I haven't seen anyone post results with it yet. Plus, it will cost you over $50 shipped, so it's no bargain basement deal either. Sidewindercomputers has the Thermalright SLK900A for sale right now for $29.95 and they are a great company to deal with too.

[GnomeWizardd]

get the aero cool or the thermalright both will do you well

[DanG]

I don't see anyone mentioning the Thermalright SP120(I think that's the one). Is it just overkill? Or do you need an insane fan to cool all that metal?

[abhi63]

In regards to heatsinks themselves, which is better, SP-97 or HT-101?

Thanks.

[Thrax]

<b>DanG:</b> The SP-120 is P4-only. The Athlon version is the XP-120.

<b>Abhi63:</b> SP-97 is superior to the HT-101.

[abhi63]

<b>DanG:</b> The SP-120 is P4-only. The Athlon version is the XP-120.

<b>Abhi63:</b> SP-97 is superior to the HT-101.

Is the XP-120 available, and is it superior to the SP-97? What's currently the best heatsink money can buy for air cooling?

Thanks.

[Thrax]

Unfortunately the XP-120 is currently not available (Atleast anywhere I can find it...), but should it arrive, it would be significantly superior to the SP-97 sink.

Seeing as the XP-120 is unavailable at this time, the SP-97 is the best air cooling money can buy.

[abhi63]

Would you recommend a Smart Fan 2 on the SP-97 or another fan, 92mm?

Thanks.

[Mt_Goat]

Would you recommend a Smart Fan 2 on the SP-97 or another fan, 92mm?

Thanks.

I have found no better than Smartfan2 for the SP-97 / SLK series of heat Sinks.

80mm fans work best on these.

[Thrax]

I completely agree with Mtgoat (Who's sportin' a fine new avatar!)

[abhi63]

Does SP-97 work with Athlon 64 aswell as XP?

[Thrax]

No, unfortunately it doesn't as the XP and the 64 use wildly different mounting mechanisms for their heatsinks.

//EDIT: And sadly, I just discovered that the XP-120 will be A64 only. :(

[abhi63]

Do you reckon that Athlon XP will be around for much longer or will Athlon 64 take over?

I don't what to buy a heatsink for a series that is on its way out.

Would you advise moving to Athlon 64?

Thanks.

[Thrax]

AMD has said that they'll be releasing low power A64-based processors (Sempron) on the Socket A platform. That alone will lengthen the longevity of the socket and its future potential.

I do believe that the Athlon XP by itself has 7-12 months of life in it before it <i>really</i> begins to die off in the face of low-priced A64 3x00/4x00 processors. I think we won't see the real paradigm shift until late Q1 or early Q2 of next year.

I'd say the SP-97 is a sound investment, unless you're willing to make the much larger one for a Socket 939 Athlon 64 3x00 CPU which probably has 2-3 years in it.

[muddocktor]

The only other fans that might be superior to the SmartFan 2 on the Thermalright heatsinks is the focused flow fans that Delta makes and the Vantec Tornado, but with a few caveats. The Delta FFB0812HHE is the quietest of the focused flow fans and only moves 45 cfm of air, but I'm seeing that even that these low cfm focused flow fans are cooling as well as the SmartFan 2 on high, which is around 60-70 cfm. The Delta FFB0812SHE moves 68 cfm of air and is superior to the SmartFan 2 on cooling, but is also noisier. The Delta FFB0812EHE and the Vantec Tornado both move around 85-90 cfm of air and are great for cooling but are almost unbearably loud. The focusing vanes built into these 38mm thick fans are what helps bring up cooling efficiency on them by giving them a more directed air output, but also contributes a bit to the flow noise due to the proximity of the focusing vanes to the fan blades. Plus, none of these focused flow fans come with a speed controller, so you have to spend more money for a speed controller for them if you want to be able to vary fan speed. Finally, these are 38mm thick fans and might pose interference problems when mounting in a small or thin case, whereas the SmartFan 2 is a regular 25mm thick fan that will mount like any other 80mm case fan (or 92mm case fan).

BTW, I have the Vantec Tornado, Delta FFB0812HHE and Delta FFB0812SHE all in 80mm size, as well as SmartFan 2's. Just last week I changed out the 2-45 cfm Delta's for 2-Smartfan 2 fans on my MSI Dually and have measured no increase at all in cooling even with them set on high, using SLK800 heatsinks. The Delta fans will probably be going back on that box when I get back in from work because the 45 cfm Delta is quieter than the SmartFan 2 when on high speed. But for all around use, the Smartfan 2 is a much better buy because of the addition of both a manual speed controller and thermistor controlled speed circuitry for the same price as what a Delta or Vantec Tornado costs.

[abhi63]

I have an unlocked Barton 2500 at 3200 speeds (2.2GHz). How much higher can I overclock this?

I have an ASUS A7N8X Deluxe Motherboard and 512MB PC3200 RAM.

Thanks.

[Thrax]

Maybe, 100-200MHz? If you're dazzlingly lucky, 300MHz.

[abhi63]

Will the SP-97 fit on my A7N8X Deluxe 2.0?

Thanks.

[Thrax]

Yes sir, it will. :)

[muddocktor]

Will the SP-97 fit on my A7N8X Deluxe 2.0?

Thanks.

If you look in the motherboard compatibility info on the SP97 at Thermalright's website (http://www.thermalright.com) , it says that your A7N8X Dlx 2.0 is compatible with it. :thumbsup:

Get one of those and you should be good to go. :cool:

[abhi63]

Do I have to use this Neo Back-Plate? I have never had a bolt-on heatsink, only clip-ons.

Thanks.

[Thrax]

Yes, you will have to use the backplate, but the assembly instructions are pretty good. The sink is too heavy to be clipped to the socket.

[Geeky1]

I have an extremely hard time believing that the SP-97 is better than the HT-101. The HT-101 has more surface area, and the heatpipes have more heat carrying capacity than those on the SP-97.

[muddocktor]

I don't think it's so much a matter of it being better or worse Geeky, when you are talking about those 2 heatsinks as I think they will perform within a degree or 2 of each other. The HT-101 will cost $55.99 shipped from Newegg whereas the SP97 is listed at $43.99 plus shipping charges at svcompucycle, so the SP97 would end up costing less. Another one to consider is the Thermaltake Silent Tower 4-in-1 I linked to several posts ago. It will cost $50.99 shipped from Newegg and it looks like it should be at least equal in performance to the other 2, plus it can be used on A64, socket A, socket 478 and socket T platforms for future use.

Personally, I would go with the SLK900A for $29.95 from sidewindercomputers and give up a few degrees of cooling, saving me $20-30. ;)

[Geeky1]

Mudd, I'm inclined to agree with you. When someone says "better" with reference to heatsinks, the performance of the heatsinks is what I assume they're talking about. The HT-101 should outperform the SP-97 by 1-3*C, but I don't think it's worth the extra size, weight, cost, etc. for most people.

I'd go with a SLK-900A myself. :-/

[abhi63]

Can I use a case fan on a heatsink as a CPU Cooler?

Thanks.

[csimon]

Can I use a case fan on a heatsink as a CPU Cooler?

Thanks.on the sp-97 and slk's you can use any case fan up to 92mm ...but I highly recommend the 80mm specifically thermaltake smartfan II

[abhi63]

What if I used an 80mm to 120mm fan adapter, then used a 120mm fan? That would give alot of airflow and would also be quiet.

Thanks.

[csimon]

What if I used an 80mm to 120mm fan adapter, then used a 120mm fan? That would give alot of airflow and would also be quiet.

Thanks.It might work with a fan adapter but I wouldn't count on it. The Thermalright heatsinks have a wire that straps the fan or adapter ...not your conventional bolt on method so you may have issues that way.
Besides ...the 80mm is the most efficient fan with those heatsinks anyway.
You should study the fan attachment method before trying the adapter so you can have a better understanding of what I mean here.

If you really have your heart set on a 120mm go with the xp-120 instead of the sp-97. Here is a review of the intel version. http://www.systemcooling.com/thermalright_xp120-01.html

[abhi63]

What do you think about this Silent Cat 9 fan from Thermaltake?

52.24CFM, 2500 RPM at only 21 dBA.

Thanks.

[Geeky1]

80mm fans work better on the SLK heatsinks than 92mm fans.

[abhi63]

But I thought adapters would work well as the air will be concentrated in the middle?

Thanks.

[csimon]

But I thought adapters would work well as the air will be concentrated in the middle?

Thanks.
which heatsink are you referring to?

[Geeky1]

First problem: The adapters won't work on the SLK heatsinks
Second problem: Adapters are worthless.

Axial fans cannot deal with any kind of backpressure, which is what an adapter creates; they have a hard enough time dealing with the backpressure created by the heatsink. Putting an adapter on a fan could quite easily cut the airflow in half. The best setup on the SLK heatsinks is an 80mm fan.

[muddocktor]

What Geeky's posting there is the God's Honest Truth about fan adapters and especially the SLK heatsinks. The only time that you might see an improvement using a fan adapter is with a heatsink that is designed for the fan to suck the air out of the heatsink like the Alpha heatsinks and that's debatable if you will see any improvement even then. With heatsinks that are designed for the fan to blow through them, a fan adapter adds too much backpressure and extra turbulence for them to be efficient. Remember, an axial flow fan loses a tremendous amount of it's flowrate when it's bucking even a tiny amount of backpressure.

I've also got quite a few of Thermalright's heatsinks and my best results have been with the 80mm fans, even on the heatsinks that can mount the 92's.

[Geeky1]

Mudd, even if the fan is pulling air out of the heatsink, you'd still have the same problem. Backpressure and vacuum are all the same thing to an axial fan; fans like the Delta EHEs with their focused flow fins are much better than regular axial fans, but even they can't handle pulling any significant vacuum/backpressure to speak of. This is why a single 49cfm Sunon 120mm squirrel cage fan will outperform a 75cfm SmartFan2 on a SLK-900 heatsink, and 2 of them will kick a 92mm tornado's ass into last week.

[Jimborae]

...... Also, Thermaltake has come out with the SilentTower 4 in 1 CPU Cooler for Intel P4 478 & Socket T, AMD K7 & K8, with Heatpipe Cooling, Model "CL-P0025 (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-106-043&depa=0) that looks like it should work very well too, but I haven't seen anyone post results with it yet. Plus, it will cost you over $50 shipped, so it's no bargain basement deal either. Sidewindercomputers has the Thermalright SLK900A for sale right now for $29.95 and they are a great company to deal with too.


I have one & have posted pics on another thread i think (cant be arsed to find it, just got back from Sweden :) Fully loaded on my P4 rig it reads at about 37c i think. Is specifically got it for its universal heatsink & cos its quiet. I'm well pleased with it. ;)

[muddocktor]

Hey, I'm glad you are having a good experience with it Jimbo! :D I've seen it at Newegg's site but I din't know anyone who was running it; sounds like it's a stellar performer for you and is a worthy competitor to the rest of the high end aircooling solutions out there.

Finally Thermaltake comes out with a true high performance heatsink. :)

Geeky if you notice, I did say that even when installed on a heatsink like the Alpha's that any performance increase is debatable. However, when set up on an Alpha with it sucking through the adapter, it's not having to deal with the turbulence and eddy currents as when it is trying to blow through a fan adapter. You do lose some efficiency, but not like you do when blowing through it.:)

[abhi63]

What about using the fan adapter for case fans?

Regardless of price, can an 80mm Panaflo case beat a 120mm Panaflo case fan with an 80mm to 120mm fan adapter?

Sorry if my posts seem a little repetitive, but I want the best for my computer! :p

[muddocktor]

You could try it out but I'm afraid that constricting it that much will kill any potential flow increase due to the 120mm fan's size, but I've never personally tried that out. If you can find a 120mm>80mm adapter for cheap, you might give it a whirl and see if it makes a difference on a case fan. Personally, I just mod the lower front opening to fit a 120mm case fan on my cases that I've modded to fit 1 there with a dremel tool.

[abhi63]

So have you just drilled some holes in your case so that you can fit a 120mm fan?

Thanks.

[muddocktor]

Actually I also cut the hole out to match the fan too, besides drilling new mount holes. I used a 120mm wire fan grille to get the size hole I needed to cut.

[MAGIC]

you can get aprox. 120mm hole saws from home depot for like 20 bucks. kinda pricey but cut very clean nice holes.