Statement

[PressX]

Do you don't have to be a Christian to be christian.

discuss...

[leishi85]

yeah, what he said.

[primesuspect]

Perhaps we should discuss this on www.midwestmeditation.com or www.keyboardjockey.com :eek3:

[Jello Biafra]

I really like cheese:D

[Templar]

* Templar activates the Halon system

[PressX]

Perhaps we should discuss this on www.midwestmeditation.com or www.keyboardjockey.com :eek3:


SO I get the feeling this is not the place to discuss... I am cool with that. Lock/delete thread....

However, If I go to a more apropriate site I would miss out on the replies I was hoping for here :rolleyes:

[Jengo]

why cant we talk about that here? this is a damned pub... it doenst say leave religion at the door....

do you have to be christian to be christian? that question by itself answers itself... to be christian you must be christian... weather you worship god or the sata "the devil" your still christian because you beilive satan.. to have satan you have to have god.... meh..


sorry if im grumpy today...

:thumbsup:

[entropy]

weather you worship god or the sata "the devil"

/me throws his SATA drive out the window

[EyesOnly]

what's wrong with sata(n)? :D

[bothered]

I don't know what you have to do to 'be' a Christian. I have met people who you would say live a Christian life but don't attend any church and people who do attend who do not live a Christian way of life. I think 'Christian' is a way of living rather than what club you belong to.

[entropy]

Are they not two different things? Living a Christian life is different from the standard definition of Christian, which is believing in Jesus. Living a 'Christian life' is included in the traditional definition of Christian, but being a 'true' Christian isn't included in the definition of 'Christian life'. But if you look up the word on dictionary.com, you get both definitions. So the meaning of the words has/is changed in today's society...

(I'm just posting while I can before this thread gets locked ;):p )

[maxanon]

Bothered brings up a point that always bugged me. Where is the line between faith and religion? Do you need to attend the organisation's sanctioned functions to be part of the faith? Do you need to follow all points to be considered a member?

I think you can be whatever you want to be without being officially recognised. However, if you want to take advantage of the facilities and other members, then you have to play by their rules.

[bothered]

I saw an old film once where George Burns played God. He was sat in a car with this guy, telling him he was God. The guy didn't believe him and said " But I don't belong to any church", George looked at him and said "neither do I". I though 'I'm having that'.

[primesuspect]

This thread won't be locked just because it's about religion. But in my experience, religion and politics almost ALWAYS get people hot under the collar and then angry words come out and things get out of hand. So, just be aware that these types of threads get scrutinzed by the staff closely. :thumbsup:

[primesuspect]

As far as the question goes, it's simple:

If you believe that Jesus Christ was the son of god (you must believe in god for this to be true, obviously), and you accept jesus as your personal saviour and believe that the only way to heaven (again, belief in heaven is a prerequisite) is through him, then you are a christian. That's all there is to it. Nothing else is required of you.

[PressX]

As far as the question goes, it's simple:

If you believe that Jesus Christ was the son of god (you must believe in god for this to be true, obviously), and you accept jesus as your personal saviour and believe that the only way to heaven (again, belief in heaven is a prerequisite) is through him, then you are a christian. That's all there is to it. Nothing else is required of you.

Not true in the meaning that I was trying to purvey. Hoewever, technically I think you are correct. I have posted this on www.keyboardjockey.com with a little more explanation...

[Clutch]

Hard to say really. I mean I know too many people that live a "Christian" life but do way to many "not christian" things. So anyone can say they are christian. Heck I might as well say I am christian I guess.

[primesuspect]

That's one of the primary reasons I am not a christian right there, clutch: Besides the fact that I do not believe that jesus was the son of god (the idea, to my way of thinking, is just absurd), I was born and raised amongst an entire community of people who claim christianity but do not follow anything other than the motions of said practice. In fact, I will go on to boldly but truthfully say that I have not met one person in my life who claimed to be a christian, and lived a christian lifestyle.

[entropy]

Which is what I was trying to get across over at kbj :) I am a Christian though, and do *try* to be a good one, but I must admit I fail pretty badly :-/

[Jello Biafra]

Society in the west is based on certain christian doctrines, but that doesnt make everyone christian.

[primesuspect]

I reject most of this supposedly "christian" society that we live in, as being rife with hypocrisy and set up for failure. See entropy's example: He claims christianity probably because he knows nothing else, or maybe he truly does believe in jesus as the son of god, but yet he "tries and fails miserably" - that misery is the cause of so, so many of our world's problems. We live in a society that says "YOU MUST DO THIS AND THIS, AND NOT DO THIS OR THAT. YOU WILL BE PUNISHED REALLY BAD IF YOU FAIL". Not a single person can meet all the criteria. Therefore, christianity provides an "out" - repent, accept jesus as your saviour, and you'll be "happy". It's ludicrous, in my opinion. How any rational person can think this is true is beyond me.

Therefore I choose to live my life based only on observable truth and have only one "power" to answer to - myself. The buddha taught this doctrine, and I read everything he had to say and saw that he was correct. Therefore, I call myself a buddhist.

I will be flamed, no doubt about that. If you wish to flame me, please flame over at keyboardjockey, and I will flame right back :D

[Jello Biafra]

I reject most of this supposedly "christian" society that we live in, as being rife with hypocrisy and set up for failure. See entropy's example: He claims christianity probably because he knows nothing else, or maybe he truly does believe in jesus as the son of god, but yet he "tries and fails miserably" - that misery is the cause of so, so many of our world's problems. We live in a society that says "YOU MUST DO THIS AND THIS, AND NOT DO THIS OR THAT. YOU WILL BE PUNISHED REALLY BAD IF YOU FAIL". Not a single person can meet all the criteria. Therefore, christianity provides an "out" - repent, accept jesus as your saviour, and you'll be "happy". It's ludicrous, in my opinion. How any rational person can think this is true is beyond me.

Therefore I choose to live my life based only on observable truth and have only one "power" to answer to - myself. The buddha taught this doctrine, and I read everything he had to say and saw that he was correct. Therefore, I call myself a buddhist.

I will be flamed, no doubt about that. If you wish to flame me, please flame over at keyboardjockey, and I will flame right back :D


I understand and agree with what you say, and am also Buddihst, for the record, but you cannot deny that most of what we are taught in the west is indeed christian docterine, and as I have said, just because we abide by these laws, that doesnt mean we are christian, but that it is a society evolved around these teachings, and thus you could argue that many people live a 'christian' lifestyle without actually being christian.

ps I am off my gourd on painkillers at the moment, so I apologise if I make little sense:D

[primesuspect]

Oh, absolutely I agree with you. I concur with your point - almost ALL we are taught in america is "christian doctrine" (despite the supposed seperation of church and state - just look at our money and our pledge of allegiance and all those other things). I'm sure it's quite the same in the UK.

We abide by humanistic laws because most of them are essentially the same. The old standby "all world religions are essentially the same" applies here - it's not very hard to tell right from wrong. That's why I originally said "take away the christ, and you are very probably a buddhist" (I may have said that at keyboardjockey). Sure people live a "christian lifestyle" - but not perfectly. All I am saying is that the pressure on a self-proclaimed christian to follow the dogma and doctrine is unrealistic and since the expectations are so high and guilt comes into play, it is doomed to failure. And that failure leads to so much unhappiness, which leads to fear and anger, which leads to things like war. It makes me so sad.

[entropy]

See, I've actually been struggling with religion lately. Yeah, hardy har, "he's a teenager he's all confused" and all that bullsprit. Actually not. But what I've come to think is this. Having, and following, a religion has proven to be a good thing. People are happier, more creative, more outgoing when they're involved in a religion. It's a fact. So, since I was brought up on Christianity, I take it.
1) Christianity (like many, many religions) teaches you to be happy and live a good live, both for yourself and others. The Golden Rule.
2) If you believe in Jesus, it gives you hope. I'm not saying other religions aren't the same like that - they are. It just depends on what you choose to follow.
3) It can't hurt. If you believe in Jesus, and I mean actually really believe, what happens? You live a happier life. You're more optimistic. And here's the other thing, and this might sound slightly selfish/coarse, but it isn't intended to: If it turns out that Jesus really is the only way to Heaven, then you're set. If not, well then He made your life much, much happier anyway, whether or not He was/is real.

Prime (and all the admins) - thank you for keeping this thread open. We need some stuff like this around here :)

[primesuspect]

Number 3 is called "Pascal's Wager" (http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/pascal.html) :D

[Jello Biafra]

3) It can't hurt. If you believe in Jesus, and I mean actually really believe, what happens? You live a happier life. You're more optimistic. And here's the other thing, and this might sound slightly selfish/coarse, but it isn't intended to: If it turns out that Jesus really is the only way to Heaven, then you're set. If not, well then He made your life much, much happier anyway, whether or not He was/is real.


And that is great, seriously, If everyone from each of the many religeons we have on this planet thought the same way, we would have an amazing place to live, sadly someone has always got to be right, and therefore, someone has to be wrong, so we fight, and forget the message, maybe one day it will change...

:(

[Clutch]

I've heard and saw to many examples of before someone "passes" that they give their life to the lord, etc..etc..and everyone is happy because they got into heaven. But I mean wtf, so if I was on my death bed and do all of the stuff you have to do to get saved then within a heartbeat I can turn from breaking into houses, doing drugs, you name it and I got my ticket into heave w00t........NOT.