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Geeky1
3 Sep 2004, 7:59am
tcith posted a wallpaper in the post your desktop thread with a skinned fox and a url- www.furisdead.com I figured I'd check it out... Turns out it's run by PETA, so I don't know how credible the info on it is (I need to do some more research first) but... It's about fur farming and trapping.... I saw some stuff on there that... oh man, stuff like this just pisses me off...

Disclaimer: These pics are pretty graphic, and some people may find them disturbing

http://www.furisdead.com/images/injuredfoxbig.jpg
An injured fox; if I had to guess, I'd say it did this to itself...

http://www.furisdead.com/images/doglegholdbig.jpg
What a trap did to a dog's paw...

More pics can be found here; Some of these are extremely graphic, so if you're bothered by blood and gore, you may want to not click this link, or at the very least, don't click some of the thumbnails on the page.
http://www.furisdead.com/cc-photoranch.html

I mean how could someone live with themselves after being responsible for that happening to an animal? That fox in the first pic probably did that to itself out of boredom and frustration.

PETA claims these farms do things like snapping their necks. This doesn't kill the animal though, at least that's what they claim, and I believe they're correct- I'll ask my dad tomorrow to be sure (my dad is a zoologist). What it does, as I understand it, is to paralyze the animal; the brain dies from lack of oxygen, but this can take as long as 5 minutes. They also do stuff like sticking probes/alligator clips up the animals' rectums and/or vaginas and electrocuting them:

The farmer told our investigator that a humane death by an injection of barbiturate was "too expensive"—even though it costs a mere 30 cents per animal. So he uses a metal noose pole to lift each fox from the cage by the neck, shoves an electric prod into the animal’s rectum and forces a metal conductor into the animal’s mouth. A flip of a switch shoots 240 volts of electricity through the fox’s body.

According to our investigator, "The fox’s eyes usually shut and the body goes rigid. There is a crackling sound … and sometimes teeth break and fall out. … Often the anal probe falls out. When this happens, the fox convulses, shakes, and often cries."

Death doesn’t come quickly. Because the electricity does not go through and stun the brain, the foxes remain awake and feel the full excruciating force of a massive heart attack. Tom Amlung, a veterinarian and administrator for St. Clair County, Ill., animal control, says, "The animals do not lose consciousness … for one to two minutes. The time … seems like an eternity, so one can only imagine how the animal must feel experiencing this pain during this time with the electricity running from one end of his body to the other while heat builds up at the site of the electrode."
- http://www.furisdead.com/animals-chilling.html

I need to do some more research and see how prevalent this stuff is. We are, after all, talking about PETA, which is far from an unbiased source. I'd like to believe that it's not nearly as common as they claim it is, but the only way to know for sure is to do some more research. What PETA wants (to ban the fur trade, make everyone vegans, etc.) is never going to happen, and I wouldn't want it to. I wouldn't mind seeing fur banned, but I think that even that is being pretty unreasonable. But is it too much to ask for these people to keep and kill the animals in a humane way to minimize their suffering?

TheSmJ
3 Sep 2004, 8:39am
Not when money is involved. :(

Geeky1
3 Sep 2004, 9:26am
I believe you may have hit the nail on the head. Acccording to that quote in my first post, humane euthanasia costs $0.30 per animal. But even that's too much, apparently. What that quote describes being done to the foxes is only one of the things the site mentions; another article talks about a california farmer that was brought up on animal cruelty charges for attaching alligator clips to the labias and ears of female chinchillas, and plugging the other end into 120vac.

Yet another farmer was charged with cruelty (I believe) for injecting an insecticide directly into foxs' hearts to kill them, which apparently causes them to spasm for up to 10 minutes before they die.

Again, I need to do some reading and see how widespread this stuff really is, but damn, this stuff just kills me. I mean read the quote in my last post about the foxes. Read what I just said in the two paragraphs directly above this. Consider how painful it would be to have an electrode rammed up your ass (and I do mean 'rammed'; you don't honestly think that they're gentle with these things, or that they use any kind of lubrication or whatever on them, do you?), have another one shoved down your throat, and then have 240v of alternating current put across them. I've hit myself with 120v, and that was bad enough.

Consider how it would feel to have an alligator clip attached to a part of your genitalia, and to your ear, the way it was with those chinchillas, and then to have 120v of electricity put across it? 120v is bad enough when you get hit by it on your hands. I have no desire to experience having an alligator clip attached to me below the belt, and then having 120v of ac put through it.

And as for the farmer using the shots of insecticide... remember your last tetanus shot? It hurt, didn't it? Now imagine that needle going into not the muscle in your arm, but through your rib cage, into your chest cavity, and directly into your (still very much alive and beating) heart. And imagine that the substance being injected is not a vaccine, but an insecticide that (judging by its apparent effect on the animals getting shot with it) is a powerful neurotoxin. You don't die quickly. You loose control of your muscles, your heart starts to beat erratically. It takes you a good 5 or 10 minutes to die.

Does that sound pleasent to you?
That's what I thought.

And it brings me back to the ultimate question: Why? Why on God's green earth do they have to put these animals through this kind of stuff? I'd prefer to see the animals not being killed at all, but for the love of God, why do they have to put them through that kind of pain?

Tex
3 Sep 2004, 2:27pm
Its PETA for gawd sakes. A bigger group of whacko's doesnt exist in my mind accept some of the abortionist groups. And even thats a toss up.

Tex

keto
3 Sep 2004, 3:52pm
kbj topic

TheGr81
3 Sep 2004, 4:02pm
My god... That's sick.

^Ben
3 Sep 2004, 5:05pm
PETA Nuff said.

bothered
3 Sep 2004, 5:45pm
I haven't clicked on any of those links I don't need to see them. I think we all use animal skins, leather shoes etc, but wearing fur for decoration is, to me, just wrong.

TheSmJ
3 Sep 2004, 5:56pm
Pleather (fabricated leather) is even good enough (or better) than using skins. Granted (I would imagine) the industry uses the skin from bovine which is already going to be killed for meat anyhow, but I'm no expert.

Nomad
3 Sep 2004, 7:13pm
Granted (I would imagine) the industry uses the skin from bovine which is already going to be killed for meat anyhow, but I'm no expert.

Generally speaking, they do.

Geeky1
3 Sep 2004, 8:10pm
Its PETA for gawd sakes. A bigger group of whacko's doesnt exist in my mind accept some of the abortionist groups. And even thats a toss up.

Tex

That's why I said, I need to do more research before coming to a final conclusion. I have no doubt that this stuff happens, the question is really how common it is. They make it sound like it happens on every farm, which is just patently absurd, so it's really a question of how much of their propaganda is true. :)

TheSmJ
3 Sep 2004, 8:39pm
Generally speaking, they do.


I never knew you worked at a slaughter house...

Nomad
3 Sep 2004, 10:08pm
I never knew you worked at a slaughter house...

I don't, there was a girl last year in my economics class whose father did, she said a lot of dead cows go from company to company.

muddocktor
3 Sep 2004, 11:28pm
Its PETA for gawd sakes. A bigger group of whacko's doesnt exist in my mind accept some of the abortionist groups. And even thats a toss up.

Tex


But Tex, I'm a member of PETA!

People
Eating
Tasty
Animals


:buck: :D ;D

Mt_Goat
4 Sep 2004, 12:03am
But Tex, I'm a member of PETA!

People
Eating
Tasty
Animals


:buck: :D ;D

Mud,

I'm with you!





http://www.short-media.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3070

entropy
4 Sep 2004, 12:07am
;)

entropy
4 Sep 2004, 12:13am
And one more for good measure!
(Lol, don't get me wrong - I love animals, I think what happens to them is horrible, but, I really don't like the peta people, either...)

test_tube_tony
4 Sep 2004, 12:33am
the pay better be damn good for working in crappy conditions like that. the smell must be more horrid than that they do to the animals.

Geeky1
4 Sep 2004, 6:33am
Mud,

I'm with you!





http://www.short-media.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3070

As am I. Don't misunderstand me; I don't want everyone to stop eating meat or anything. I'm not a vegetarian, and I have no intent of ever becoming one. I do think that the fur industry should probably be eliminated, because the only purpose it serves is a cosmetic one, and cosmetics aren't a good enough reason to kill animals.

That's not likely to happen either tho. So all I'd like to see is that the animals get kept and killed in a humane manner, assuming that PETA is right and they're not now. That's all. :)

Xenogeared
4 Sep 2004, 6:47am
man has been wearing fur for a long long time, nothing is going to change it.

lemme just say PETA really knows how to make it look like the entire industry is doing that. frankly i dont care what peta has to say.

"save an animal, eat a PETA spokesperson"

keto
4 Sep 2004, 6:52am
lol cannibalism at its finest, ty X. I like where this thread has gone but yet again that's all the more reason it prolly belongs at kbj before someone objects *strenuously*

Nomad
4 Sep 2004, 7:31am
Yeah, because we know how much people post over there >:|

keto
4 Sep 2004, 7:40am
=p me = pwned, non-member THANKX

Geeky1
4 Sep 2004, 8:19am
lemme just say PETA really knows how to make it look like the entire industry is doing that.

Indeed they do. However, the pics they have there didn't just come out of thin air; they're not likely to be photochops, simply because no photochop I've ever seen is that good. So they had to get them from somewhere, which means that obviously some of this stuff does happen on some farms at some time. The question is simply how widespread it is. If they're extremely isolated incidents, then they're unfortunate but basically unavoidable. If this is the way the animals are treated on even 10% of farms though, something needs to be done about it. So, like I said, I need to do some more research on it before I come to a conclusion.

madmat
4 Sep 2004, 10:49am
I don't like PETA because they're like all the other radical organizations out there, yeah we need to know what's happening but there are organizations like the SPCA that have the clout to take care of the problems if they are brought to light.
The problem is that instead of trying to use the system PETA seems to try the vigilante approach and that just makes for even bigger problems.

Mt_Goat
4 Sep 2004, 2:04pm
Let me conclude by saying that all of these extreme groups use pics or statements that are the extreme bad end of what they don't like and far from the norm. Now if some of the finer looking women that are endorsing not wearing fur by going naked want to keep doing so, let them! ;) Fur is possibly the only industry that is older than "the oldest profession" and as X said, "nothing is going to change that."

If anyone really wants to get sick of what an industry does. Look at the chicken and pork producers. Not only are they keeping and treating their stock under totally repulsive conditions, they are also poluting the enviornment at a rate that exceeds most heavy industrys. I could have found better links but I think these give you the idea.

http://www.inmotionmagazine.com/hwenv.html

http://www.greenlink.org/public/hotissues/farm6.html


And just remeber that plants have feelings too! :bawling: