Formal request for a debate forum. [Archive]

CaffeineMe

31 Jul 2003, 4:05am

Let me begin by saying that I intend no disrespect here ( I got mad pr0ps for all the S-M staff :respect: ), I merely want to make a point.

Obviously, a great many people miss the debate forum from the IC days. Yes, it had some problems, but also allowed, well, free debate!

Many people here do want a debate forum, yet have been told "No" or "Not yet" several times.

At what point does the majority rule and the debate forum get created, consequences be damned? Now I'll grant you, S-M and any other forum is most likely NOT a democracy, and if a person or people choose to rule via their way or the highway, there's lots of other forums for us to go to. However, this is S-M, feel the love baby, :eek3: and I'd like to think that if most regulars here want to debate, then we should be granted or allowed that place to debate.

Well, point made. If the mods choose to say "Thanks for the input Bill, the answer is still No.", I can and will respect that, I just wanted to add my slant on the debate forum. Thanks for listening, and as always, thanks for a great site. :thumbsup:

SimGuy

31 Jul 2003, 4:17am

Keep it tech. Keep it Short-Media.

Preacher

31 Jul 2003, 5:47am

I fully expect Shorty to go electronically postal on all of us soon!:aol:

My preference is for Short-Media to be Tech and Debate. Until that day, I shall be lurking with one hand tied behind my back and half my brain shut off.:hiding:

Templar

31 Jul 2003, 6:20am

Anyone wanna start donations for a vBulletin license? :)

If I had to put a debate forum up on SM.com, I'd put a warning message to all people who visit the forum for the first time (meaning, click the link, it takes you to a middle man page then forwards you to the debate forum). To summarize the message, it'd go along the lines of something like "This forum may contain opinions different from your own. Everyone here has a right to free opinion, and we ask that you follow one simple rule while you have the priviledge to post and reply on this forum: Respect others opinions".

I enjoy the tech aspect of this forum, but I also favor the openess of an offtopic section (which includes just about anything. Example: Babe thread)

WuGgaRoO

31 Jul 2003, 6:23am

i mean a debate forum will be good...but lets face it...people do get antsy and flame and put up ridicilious arguements and refuse to acknowledge the truth..... from a mods standpoint i totally understand their descision (and thats how u win brownie points for the 2500+ mobo giveaway :) )

MachineGunKelly

31 Jul 2003, 7:18am

"brownie points", geeez.......

Preach.... I fully expect Shorty to go electronically postal on all of us soon!

My preference is for Short-Media to be Tech and Debate. Until that day, I shall be lurking with one hand tied behind my back and half my brain shut off.

I concur and remain hopeful that time heals all wounds and also if we leave him alone LONG enough, he may yet find the time to appease us.......:)

Shorty

31 Jul 2003, 7:24am

machinegunkelly said
I concur and remain hopeful that time heals all wounds and also if we leave him alone LONG enough, he may yet find the time to appease us.......:)

Well look at that.. MGK got it in one sentence :thumbsup:

MachineGunKelly

31 Jul 2003, 7:41am

Don't whip us Shorty, for we know not what we do........

:respect: :vimp: = shorty

Shorty

31 Jul 2003, 8:13am

machinegunkelly said
Don't whip us Shorty, for we know not what we do........

:respect: :vimp: = shorty

You guys know I love ya :respect: ;) but there are a load of other things to do round here first.. so patience will be your virtue.

MachineGunKelly

31 Jul 2003, 3:57pm

Exactly your shortness! :respect:

kanezfan

31 Jul 2003, 5:10pm

OK you debating fools, you might know I own and run addaboy.com, my own feeble attempt at the tech-site/enthusiast thing. I too will not have a debate forum on my site, however I recognize the want and need out there for just such a community, so stay tuned for www.keyboardjockey.com! I've been reading the threads here at S-M the last week or so, you're dying to get a debate forum, I'm launching a whole debate site! What I need is your input as to what forums you want to see (like US politics, abortion, religion, Israel Vs. Palestinians, Reps Vs. Dems, Morality, Sex, etc.....) Also, I'm at a loss when it comes to what the rules should be. I just registered the domain name, there's no site or forums yet, but that will only take an afternoon to throw together.

Now, I own the domain name, but I'm not going to be that heavily involved in running this thing, so I'd like to offer MGK, Thrax, Preacher, and KilJaeden moderatorships as of right now on this new site so you guys can decide who else you want as mods and so that you can also come up with rules and regulations.

I've already spoken to prime about hosting the site, he's super excited about it, and it can go live in about 2 days so you can start having fun. In the interest of not debating, err discussing what the rules should be, who else you want as mods here on S-M, please communicate through PMs, or if you want, just wait until it goes live in a couple days and discuss in the staff forum over there. I hope this makes you happy, I saw a need, I tried to fill the void!

Thrax

31 Jul 2003, 6:22pm

Whoa. :eek2:

:respect: Kanezfan

MachineGunKelly

31 Jul 2003, 6:49pm

Hmmm, very interesting!
Rule #1....No smartass dissing allowed. Respectful at ALL times. Or, what was that again Thrax?
"banished to the digital void" or something to that effect? ;)

Thanks kanezfan for the opportunity bro. :thumbsup:

Thrax

31 Jul 2003, 6:56pm

Banished to the digital void works. :D

kanezfan

31 Jul 2003, 6:58pm

I'm so glad you guys are excited about it, hopefully this thing takes off quick.

MachineGunKelly

31 Jul 2003, 7:03pm

Great! I pm'd Preacher but he has a REAL job too carrying the Admirals' luggage or something like that....;)

Preacher

1 Aug 2003, 12:48am

Just because I'm his bitch doesn't mean I carry his luggage!

"Yes, sir, Admiral, sir. I'm coming right now with your Diet Coke and laundry. Can I rub your back or wash your dog?!"

Preacher like debate!

MachineGunKelly

1 Aug 2003, 1:09am

He has a dog? Abuse of authority!!!

kanezfan

1 Aug 2003, 12:26pm

OK, so far the only person I haven't heard from is kiljaeden, the rest of you guys are on-board. update for ya, right now I'm waiting on the name server info to propagate, but I might have something for you this afternoon, depending on how fast prime can type adduser lol. I'll keep you updated on the progress.

CaffeineMe

1 Aug 2003, 1:47pm

kanezfan said
What I need is your input as to what forums you want to see (like US politics, abortion, religion, Israel Vs. Palestinians, Reps Vs. Dems, Morality, Sex, etc.....)

This is NOT what I had in mind, not at all. These topics seem so watered down and limp wristed as to not even be worth debating! Might as well discuss which is better, Coke or Pepsi (Pepsi). Come on, please people, let's at least TRY to discuss something controversial!! :crazy:

/me now turns off the sarcasm! :p

Seriously, GREAT idea!

kanezfan

1 Aug 2003, 2:05pm

woohoo another believer!

IC-Games

1 Aug 2003, 2:52pm

Think your going to need some other moderators to lessen the weight of the republicans, we dont want another Florida Election now do we :D

Good Luck with it ;)

And CaffeineMe, Coke is better than pepsi ;)

MachineGunKelly

1 Aug 2003, 3:06pm

Think your going to need some other moderators to lessen the weight of the republicans, we dont want another Florida Election now do we
I ain't no Re-pub-lickin'...ain't no Dem-o-crap neither....I vote my conscience mostly.

We are a listing to starboard a little tho aren't we? ;D

IC-Games

1 Aug 2003, 3:12pm

machinegunkelly said
Think your going to need some other moderators to lessen the weight of the republicans, we dont want another Florida Election now do we

We are a listing to starboard a little tho aren't we? ;D

Hiya MGK - sorry, I havent got a clue what your talking about ;)

l8r :)

MachineGunKelly

1 Aug 2003, 3:17pm

Hiya coaster! Oh, you ain't no 'swabby' 'eh?

IC-Games

1 Aug 2003, 3:19pm

heh :) No - RAF man myself, not Navy :D

Good Luck with the site :D

kanezfan

1 Aug 2003, 3:19pm

coaster fell free to jump in, and I'll help sway us to port.

IC-Games

1 Aug 2003, 3:22pm

kanezfan, I will certainly visit, looks interesting :D

PS - Love your show, each week you get better and better, now you sound so natural :D Keep it up :D

When all said and done, the three mods you have picked are decent ppl, and have valid arguments that people need to hear :) it will be a great site :)

MachineGunKelly

1 Aug 2003, 3:30pm

Damn coaster! :respect:

kanezfan

1 Aug 2003, 3:46pm

thanks coaster, much apreciated!

kanezfan

1 Aug 2003, 11:50pm

OK folks, the forums are up, albeit bare and empty right now. What forums categories do you want? And you can all thank Shorty for sending me graphics to cheer the place up. now if I can only convince him to make something for the front page..... (hint hint)

T-BirD

2 Aug 2003, 12:21am

I think the front page should promimently display the "Debating on the internet is like winning the special olypmics" picture above the threads - to help keep it all in perspective in a lighthearted way ;)

Kanezfan helping us out in our time of need :)

Thrax

2 Aug 2003, 1:20am

Categories:

Foreign Policy
Economics
United Nations
Abortion
Genetics
Welfare
Civil rights
Law
Firearms
Tort reform

What are some other hot topics fellas?

Straight_Man

2 Aug 2003, 1:24am

O\S Wars, formal discussion about what works and works not.
Future of the Internet, ie: what SHOULD it be???
Old Farts versus New Geeks (tech philosophy discussion)

Thrax

2 Aug 2003, 1:28am

Good idea, Geek, branch into something beyond politics:

Politics:
Foreign Policy
Economics
United Nations
Abortion
Genetics
Welfare
Civil rights
Law
Firearms
Tort reform
miscellaneous

Computers:
Intel vs. AMD
ATI vs. nVidia
Microsoft vs. Linux
DVD+RW vs. DVD-R
Intel Motherboards
AMD Motherboards

Culture:
(Someone else who knows about mainstream culture can fill this in....)

And the admins can always add new categories as they see fit.

Templar

2 Aug 2003, 4:07am

!

You forgot a religion debate forum :D You can branch that section off into different beliefs such as Christianity, Mormonism, etc. if you feel the call.

Thrax

2 Aug 2003, 4:10am

Ah, good call.

That's probably going to be the administrative hotspot though. heh.

Templar

2 Aug 2003, 4:18am

Thrax said
Ah, good call.

That's probably going to be the administrative hotspot though. heh.

Send in the Fembots :o

MachineGunKelly

2 Aug 2003, 4:24am

Yeah, and yur gona be a mod......;)

Thrax

2 Aug 2003, 4:27am

Preacher, you MGK, and myself will be admins...We ALL get to share in the pain of that one.

MachineGunKelly

2 Aug 2003, 4:29am

Actually, I don't think there needs to be any hard and set 'forums' at all. At the old Icrontic we just posted a thread and if it gained noteriety we kept it going. If not it died. Why limit ourselves to categories we must make our ideas fit into?......It makes for a much more interesting forum. MGK

MachineGunKelly

2 Aug 2003, 4:30am

Why do we need 'categories' for discussion?

Thrax

2 Aug 2003, 4:35am

Just so it can be neatly organized, and should anyone particularly pragmatic come along with an affinity for a certain topic, they could be a moderator there.

Straight_Man

2 Aug 2003, 4:46am

Culture:

Well, Religion goes into cultural matrixes usually. So it should go there. Psychology also. Sociology also(if we separate Soc\Psych\Religion and Politics, which is Sociology\psych\religion beliefs applied practically, then these can be more of a philosophical bent and perhaps more logic oriented).

I would not fine tune much more, it needs to free-flow. One thing we do need is a notice that the site itself is not endorsing any belief set per se, and is not adopting ownership of posters content. Therefore (given that notice) if we get a poster that many think is just making trouble and nothing more, the admins can say that that poster is out of bounds and establish further guidelines as needed.
I will not say the Golden Rule should be applied per se, but would say that anyone who gets purely emotional and only attacks needs to get allowed to only post in a vent area. When they calm down, they can be let back into other areas of the site.

Should be fun. :D

Templar

2 Aug 2003, 5:02am

You could probably put some science related forums up there too. I cant really think of many seperate categories myself though. Space is one, and perhaps Physics, but there's not much debate there as physics is usually laws :D

MachineGunKelly

2 Aug 2003, 5:06am

Thrax .... Just so it can be neatly organized, and should anyone particularly pragmatic come along with an affinity for a certain topic, they could be a moderator there.
Ok, I see your point. Just as long as we're not going to get into that 'this should be in THIS thread' kind of thing. That takes all the spontenaiety out of it. Since you have been a 'debate' mod before, I will listen to your wisdom.......:respect: MGK

Straight_Man

2 Aug 2003, 5:49am

Um, Physics:

Physics "Laws" change as we see more to explain, and morph to allow for new facts.

Radiation theory, for instance. Particle and mass theory, light as quanta versus light as beams, and discussing how math has grown whole new branches that have been developed as folks found that the algorithms and postulates and experiments have led to whole new sets of experiments. Physics as exploration and where it should go are areas of thought that have spawned whole genraes(do use the Latin here) of fields of science and whole literary genres (Sci-Fi, Fanasty Sci Fi, Sci Fi plus Sociology (Greg Bear, who has let a bunch of his Mormon philosophy blend into the world view of his Sci Fi, forexample). So, Science influenced by philosophy is also a good area for thought-- as we cannot and never have been able to separate man from Science or even the progession of Math itself as a valid logical language.

Science is an expression of known thought, and more fact is found by exploring hypotheses than by any other means. We codify, but each fact leads to someone asking why these details are so, and what each chooses to explore is affected by both man's preference and skills in certain specialties and what specialties are chosen are based on preferences. "Why Does Science Know This First?" might be a forum area that we could debate in for all time. Stephen Hawking was a Scientist, but also a philosopher--a very solid one. Ditto Einstein. Ditto the leading German Physicists that gave us our first space exploration successes, like Werner Von Braun.

Debate is all about both "Why Things Are" as much as "Where Should We Go Next?" It is not just justification, it also influences where we go and what we pursue. Speaking of which, we need to have a thread or area on "What Is Debate?" in this new virtual place, IMHO. Our cooperative definition of that will work as guide for others who want to know how they can fit in. After all, our site software class is named after the Greek and Roman and Hebrew Forums. But enough, when is this new thing going online to be fleshed out by us???

MachineGunKelly

2 Aug 2003, 5:50am

Thrax, Preacher, you have PM! :D MGK

profdlp

2 Aug 2003, 7:20am

Watching the scheming going on over the last page or two of this thread gives me a feel for what it must have been like to be a fly on the wall in Philadelphia, in 1776.

Or maybe in Russia, in 1917...;D

Prof
(The original Rational Anarchist)

Lincoln

2 Aug 2003, 8:08am

Thrax said
Computers:
Intel vs. AMD
ATI vs. nVidia
Microsoft vs. Linux
DVD+RW vs. DVD-R
Intel Motherboards
AMD Motherboards

Those debates have always been more than welcome here :)

Sounds like a fun site, best luck! :cool: I'm sure I'll be around when I can :)

LawnMM

2 Aug 2003, 8:48am

Now I've seen it all.

LawnMM

2 Aug 2003, 8:58am

kanezfan said
OK you debating fools, you might know I own and run addaboy.com, my own feeble attempt at the tech-site/enthusiast thing. I too will not have a debate forum on my site, however I recognize the want and need out there for just such a community, so stay tuned for www.keyboardjockey.com! I've been reading the threads here at S-M the last week or so, you're dying to get a debate forum, I'm launching a whole debate site! What I need is your input as to what forums you want to see (like US politics, abortion, religion, Israel Vs. Palestinians, Reps Vs. Dems, Morality, Sex, etc.....) Also, I'm at a loss when it comes to what the rules should be. I just registered the domain name, there's no site or forums yet, but that will only take an afternoon to throw together.

Now, I own the domain name, but I'm not going to be that heavily involved in running this thing, so I'd like to offer MGK, Thrax, Preacher, and KilJaeden moderatorships as of right now on this new site so you guys can decide who else you want as mods and so that you can also come up with rules and regulations.

I've already spoken to prime about hosting the site, he's super excited about it, and it can go live in about 2 days so you can start having fun. In the interest of not debating, err discussing what the rules should be, who else you want as mods here on S-M, please communicate through PMs, or if you want, just wait until it goes live in a couple days and discuss in the staff forum over there. I hope this makes you happy, I saw a need, I tried to fill the void!

I'd say Religion, Drugs, Sex, and Politics should about cover it...you can fit just about anything into one of those categories. Maybe a Tech forum as well for all debates computer related...

Straight_Man

2 Aug 2003, 9:15am

Prof, when it is open, it is not scheming, IMHO. :D

profdlp

2 Aug 2003, 9:43am

Ageek said
Prof, when it is open, it is not scheming, IMHO. :D

...that's what they told the Czar.

Watch your back, Shorty! :hiding:

Prof

Shorty

2 Aug 2003, 10:26am

profdlp said

Watch your back, Shorty! :hiding:

Prof

Oh really ;)

MachineGunKelly

2 Aug 2003, 5:15pm

Looks like Ageek is ready to go!

Now if only the site was. ;)

I'm thinkin':

Politics, religion, battle of the sexes, and how cool is MGK's Harley!
(Or 'open forum' for you no-ridin' types........:rolleyes: )

Preacher

2 Aug 2003, 5:21pm

I'm easy like Sunday morning on this whole debate categories idea, but is it really necessary?

MachineGunKelly

2 Aug 2003, 5:26pm

"Oh, ohhhh, oh, ohhh, and I'm EASY.....!"
1980-81?

Preacher

2 Aug 2003, 8:24pm

Commodores off their self-titled release was what I was referring to.

You lost me on the movie trivia!

Thrax

2 Aug 2003, 8:31pm

Majority rules.

We get vague categories. :grumble:

kanezfan

2 Aug 2003, 9:15pm

all right people, there is no home page yet, but the forums are open. I've created 5 categories, let me know if you want more, I didn't create an off-topic, but i'll be more than happy to if you want. you can find the forums at http://www.keyboardjockey.com/forums/ if it doesn't work for you yet, then the DNS info has made it to your ISP, it shouldn't take much longer. Enjoy! i'll working on the home page, it'll have the usual stuff like hot threads, news, polls, etc... also I'd like to know if one of you wants to commit to doing a weekly or monthly editorial type thing, but like we could do a conservative and liberal viewpoint of the same issue. I'm thiking Thrax is gonna jump all over this one lol. I don't know who else would go for it, but I hope we find someone, otherwise i'll have to fillin as the liberal opinion. anyhow, have fun, I'll be working on the site throughout the weekend and will post updates on it from here on in.