View Full Version : Making the switch to mac
primesuspect
5 Jan 2005, 5:39pm
hehehe, i know how much you guys are gonna love this.
At my office, my desktop computer is a piece of crap. It's slow, and I hate it. I've been needing a replacement for a while. Especially at the end of the month when I do all my invoicing, the speed of my computer really holds me back.
Now, I could replace it for a few hundred bucks. Problem is, I don't have that kind of petty cash laying around.
I need to finance a computer for my office, and I've always loved OS X and liked macs in general, so.....
I bought a mac today ;D
Ready, set, FLAME! :thumbsup:
muddocktor
5 Jan 2005, 5:56pm
Woop-de-****ing-doo!
Swapped a slow Win-blows machine for an equally slow(or slower) Mac crap. :rolleyes:
Oeverpriced and underperforming. ;D ;D
I guess your bad day yesterday really affected you badly, huh?
OSX sounds nice, but not at the expense of having to buy my core hardware from a sole-source supplier.
different strokes for different folks. If the mac does everything you need it to, who cares.
different strokes for different folks. If the mac does everything you need it to, who cares.
I agree, they are pretty much the same now... My folks use Mac and having messed around with their machines I would have to say while Mac does do things a little different but when you get right down to it I think that both OSX and XP are just about the same. They do things a bit differently but they both seem to run about the same speed and macs can crash just as eaisly as XP. You can even get Luna's for XP now that make windows look like and operate simular to OSX....
Seems to me like computers have hit a wall. Technology is advancing but the general public just dosen't seem to feel the need to go out and buy.
Even if we don't REALLY have the need for the power of 64 bit computing I think to help get the economy going again the whole industry should make the jump from 32 to 64 to force people to buy. Add that to a reduction in price for broadband services I think would jump start a sluggish economy...
Sorry if I strayed off topic abit... Congrats on the new Mac Prime. :)
"g"
...I just stumbled across the real reason (http://www.rose-hulman.edu/~hanusaem/content/the%20real%20reason.ogm) prime switched.
Black Hawk
5 Jan 2005, 7:11pm
Be warned that your fruity Mac monitor is gonna be filled with hate based labels next time I'm in your office. Infact, I'm gonna buy some rainbow sticker print paper labeler thingy for it :ninja:
;D
mmonnin
5 Jan 2005, 7:13pm
You dont have several hundred bucks to upgrade your current computer but you have enough to buy an entire Mac? I dont get it.
Is there a bug going around? Is that it? First Geeky1 and now Prime....that must be it.
That said I hope you don't let your PC building customers into wherever the mac is, that's a heck of a messege to send them..."We build you PC's but I use a mac" ;D
Black Hawk
5 Jan 2005, 7:25pm
You dont have several hundred bucks to upgrade your current computer but you have enough to buy an entire Mac? I dont get it.I may be wrong, but I believe he's paying monthly for the mac.
primesuspect
5 Jan 2005, 7:33pm
Yeah, read closer, marky :)
I don't have a chunk of cash on me. Therefore, I have to finance. So, I'm not gonna finance a PC because I would just not feel right about financing something I can build myself cheaper than I can buy it for.
So, why not go mac?
And, I hate to say it to the naysayers, but macs are just as fast as PCs for what we do. I mean seriously. :rolleyes: Everyone knows I am a hardcore PC guy, Windows shop, all the way, etc... I just happen to really like OSX and I have to buy a Mac to use it. :)
bothered
5 Jan 2005, 7:39pm
The only use for a mac in an office is if the roof leaks.
'sok Prime... I just <a href="http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26066">bought one</a> too... :-/
floppybootstomp
5 Jan 2005, 9:22pm
Doesn't VmWare run OSX? Hmm, maybe not....
Macs are weird.
Omega65
5 Jan 2005, 9:31pm
A MAC EWwwww! :D
You could've just asked for donations Prime! ;D I could've sent you a NF2 Mobo & a XP-M :D
Seriously though Congrats & Put up some pics. The Mac Widescreen LCD Monitor is awesome. :respect:
primesuspect
5 Jan 2005, 9:35pm
Well I couldn't afford the high end stuff. I am getting a G5 imac.
Bah. My mac is bettar than yours. Or it will be when I get done with it. :p ;D :D
Oh, do us a favor and take that sucker apart... I wanna see how they're cooling the PPC970 in that case... :D
Buddy J
5 Jan 2005, 9:48pm
I wish I had a mac here at work. Quark is better on the mac. To compensate I run yzDock and pretend I have OS X.
Nice. Macs used to be lamer IMO, but they're decent now. Not trouble-free, but what is?
FormFactor
5 Jan 2005, 9:57pm
Congratulations!!!
How are you liking it? Do we get a review? M<ight be an interesting read... a MAC review in the words of a seasoned PC vetran.
I am jealous. But confused. You could not afford a new PC so you bought a Mac? Aren't Macs just a tad more expensive?
primesuspect
5 Jan 2005, 10:02pm
You guys aren't getting it:
I have no cash. I needed to finance it.
If I'm going to finance, it's either going to be a DELL or a MAC.
I chose mac this time around. To summarize the reasons:
1) I need a new office computer - mine is a piece of crap. I have the worst computer in the company and I am the damned CEO!
2) We support several mac clients. They all exist on homogenous networks (mac + windows). We have no mac in-house to experiment/learn with, especially in the realm of mac/windows internetworking. We've always played it by ear, it's time to learn this stuff for real. If I have a mac, I can do this.
3) I am in the hole too much with Dell, and their interest rates should be illegal.
4) I bought a low-end iMac G5 - the cheapest mac I could get.
5) I do not have it yet, when I do, I'll be sure to let everyone know.
<font size=7 color=red face=impact><b><i>I HATE YOU</b></i></font>
TheSmJ
5 Jan 2005, 10:15pm
I bought a mac today ;D
....I KNEW I should have come to work today, even if it meant riding my bike 30 miles!
I take responsibility for not stopping this before it started. :shakehead
1) I need a new office computer - mine is a piece of crap. I have the worst computer in the company and I am the damned CEO!
Not true. Have you even looked at mine?
FormFactor
5 Jan 2005, 10:24pm
Oh I get it. You needed to FINANCE it. Not just BUY it. My bad, sorry for the confusion.
Oh, I'll add this: OS X having Unix is really great. It thoroughly beats cygwin in every respect; if you know Unix but Linux is tough or not compatible enough, OS X is a good compromise.
(One day at school I discovered a command to bench the hard disk! Unix = good. Ah, and between it and AppleScript you can write some very useful stuff, whereas Windows programming just hurts...)
I wish I had a mac here at work. Quark is better on the mac. To compensate I run yzDock and pretend I have OS X.
You use Quark? I hope you have no choice in the matter. When I had to use Quark in school for my digital publishing class I almost went insane until my teacher let us use In Design, then everything went a'ok ;)
floppybootstomp
5 Jan 2005, 11:30pm
Just a thought: some time ago, in the UK, 'Using a Mac' was a polite way of saying you were going to use a condom.
Like I said, just a thought....
mmonnin
6 Jan 2005, 1:04am
You could buy one part at a time. You just wont have it as quickly.
And didnt you game on your work machine at the Lan?
primesuspect
6 Jan 2005, 1:10am
After the LAN I realized that I had a POS computer at home and a hot ass gaming rig at work... Yet, I never play games at work (what kind of job would that be!), and I do have time to play games at home... So the logical thing for me to do was to bring my good gaming computer home and take my POS to work.
Gobbles
6 Jan 2005, 1:46am
After the LAN I realized that I had a POS computer at home and a hot ass gaming rig at work... Yet, I never play games at work (what kind of job would that be!), and I do have time to play games at home... So the logical thing for me to do was to bring my good gaming computer home and take my POS to work.
I HATE YOU ALSO
ok no i dont, but I am disappointed..
:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :D :D :D :D :D
flyrice
6 Jan 2005, 4:31am
1) I need a new office computer - mine is a piece of crap. I have the worst computer in the company and I am the damned CEO!
Start docking pay and giving yourself a bigger bonus ;D
Or skip lunch for a month (eat a PBJ) and use the money you save to a new PC. If you're doing non graphic work on it, you probably wouldn't even need a high end chip or vid card...onboard video and Sempron or Celeron.
Or you could just increase your rates and blame it on inflation :-) Corporate america loves to do that.
What are the specs on the iMac you ordered Prime?
primesuspect
6 Jan 2005, 4:51am
The G5 iMac 1.8ghz/600mhz fsb
primesuspect
6 Jan 2005, 4:52am
Oh, I'll add this: OS X having Unix is really great. It thoroughly beats cygwin in every respect; if you know Unix but Linux is tough or not compatible enough, OS X is a good compromise.
definitely another reason. I mean, dude, it's unix.... that's half of what we do at sarcnet industries!
How much RAM did you get in it? 256?
primesuspect
6 Jan 2005, 5:39am
256 cause I'll buy cheaper ram at newegg.
profdlp
6 Jan 2005, 6:03am
...If I'm going to finance, it's either going to be a DELL or a MAC...
You know, when you put it in those terms I can almost agree that you have a point. ;)
a2jfreak
6 Jan 2005, 5:07pm
Did you ever look into CherryOS?
I mean seriously. :rolleyes: Everyone knows I am a hardcore PC guy, Windows shop, all the way, etc... I just happen to really like OSX and I have to buy a Mac to use it. :)
FormFactor
6 Jan 2005, 5:18pm
Did you ever look into CherryOS?
I am really looking forward to CherryOS. But the claims they make seem too good to be true. On top of that they keep pushing the flippin release date back. It's really sounding fishy.
But Ill be grabbing it on release date. At least the Eval copy.
primesuspect
6 Jan 2005, 5:20pm
Yeah, I need to get real work done, not wait for some garbled patched-together project that is perpetually "coming soon"
I'm thoroughly convinced that CherryOS is BS. I think the authors ripped off and repackaged PearPC, despite what they claim.
maxanon
6 Jan 2005, 9:28pm
Congrats on the purchase. I find that macs are great for office type (admin) tasks. The different approach is what most people complain about. Enjoy the new experience.
Omega65
6 Jan 2005, 9:44pm
...If I'm going to finance, it's either going to be a DELL or a MAC...
You know, when you put it in those terms I can almost agree that you have a point. ;)
Me too! :thumbsup: I'd take a Powermac over a Dell ;D ;D ;D
primesuspect
6 Jan 2005, 9:45pm
Well, the experience isn't necessarily new - I've been working on macs for years. But the experience of being an owner of a mac IS a first.
I have to tell you.... Since I'm doing a business lease, I couldn't do it over the web. I had to call Apple.
I called, a PERSON ANSWERED. Like, for real, a real human being.
His name was Shane, and he was from California. We actually spoke the same language, the same dialect - it was very refreshing. He was awesome, explained the business lease to me, and then today a guy named Brian called from Apple Finance. Apple Finance just so happens to be about two miles from my office. Brian is like "Hey dude, crazy drive this morning, huh?" And we talked about the snow and weather and whatnot. He emailed the lease documents to me and then said "Normally we have people fedex them. But dude, I can just swing by and pick them up or you can just throw them in a normal postal envelope. We're just up the road".
I mean, the personal service I got was just astounding. Maybe the old adage "you get what you pay for" is true.... I have NEVER received good service like this from Dell. I did receive pretty good service from Sun Micro when I bought a server from them a few years back, but not this good.
I have been following this story with some interest b/c i use pc's at home and mac's at work, and i have to say that i am surprised with your decision to waste money on an iMac. First of all, i can't stand the design of the new iMacs, and they are underpowered. If you had to get a Mac, why not at least get a g5? You know make it worth your while.
Secondly, i understand you had to finance you new computer, but that is not justification for going the iMac route. Haven't you ever heard of a P.O.? You know Purchase Order? With you being the CEO and all, you could have easily written up a P.O. for a new pc at newegg.
Let's see....new iMacs start around $1299, while a nice a64 s939 sysytem with lcd monitor, 1 gb of ram, and a 6800gt can be built for less. Hell you could even go the SLI route for less...
Look, if you want to experiment with a Mac and osX, then by all means go right ahead. It seems that you are trying to justify your purchase by telling us you had to finance it, and therefore apple is the only choice b/c it is slightly less evil than dell...
Since you are the CEO, you should never be backed into a decision. You have the ability to creatively deal with a problem b/c you are the boss. If you just wanted a Mac to play with then just tell us...we will forgive you. ;)
Black Hawk
6 Jan 2005, 9:59pm
Well, the experience isn't necessarily new - I've been working on macs for years. But the experience of being an owner of a mac IS a first.
I have to tell you.... Since I'm doing a business lease, I couldn't do it over the web. I had to call Apple.
I called, a PERSON ANSWERED. Like, for real, a real human being.
His name was Shane, and he was from California. We actually spoke the same language, the same dialect - it was very refreshing. He was awesome, explained the business lease to me, and then today a guy named Brian called from Apple Finance. Apple Finance just so happens to be about two miles from my office. Brian is like "Hey dude, crazy drive this morning, huh?" And we talked about the snow and weather and whatnot. He emailed the lease documents to me and then said "Normally we have people fedex them. But dude, I can just swing by and pick them up or you can just throw them in a normal postal envelope. We're just up the road".
I mean, the personal service I got was just astounding. Maybe the old adage "you get what you pay for" is true.... I have NEVER received good service like this from Dell. I did receive pretty good service from Sun Micro when I bought a server from them a few years back, but not this good.
I'd rather talk to a half assed english speaking foreigner and be put on hold for an hour, then pay those prices for a mac. ;D
primesuspect
6 Jan 2005, 10:11pm
I have been following this story with some interest b/c i use pc's at home and mac's at work, and i have to say that i am surprised with your decision to waste money on an iMac. First of all, i can't stand the design of the new iMacs, and they are underpowered. If you had to get a Mac, why not at least get a g5? You know make it worth your while.
Maybe you didn't follow it closely enough.....
I am getting a G5 imac.
1.8ghz G5, for quickbooks, general office work (email, web browsing) and unix tools such as SSH and SFTP. Oh, and folding. I believe a 1.8ghz PowerPC 970 will be sufficiently powerful for those tasks.
Secondly, i understand you had to finance you new computer, but that is not justification for going the iMac route. Haven't you ever heard of a P.O.? You know Purchase Order? With you being the CEO and all, you could have easily written up a P.O. for a new pc at newegg.
No Purchase Orders, Fax or C.O.D. orders please. Please accept our apologies but we do not accept international credit cards at this time.
Dude, I've been doing this for years. I know how to buy equipment. Thanks for the advice though.
Let's see....new iMacs start around $1299, while a nice a64 s939 sysytem with lcd monitor, 1 gb of ram, and a 6800gt can be built for less. Hell you could even go the SLI route for less...
:rolleyes: I do not want a gaming system. I do not need yet another PC. I have an office full of PCs. Again, you didn't read anything I said:
2) We support several mac clients. They all exist on homogenous networks (mac + windows). We have no mac in-house to experiment/learn with, especially in the realm of mac/windows internetworking. We've always played it by ear, it's time to learn this stuff for real. If I have a mac, I can do this.
You can see that I support mac clients - we support about 20 different mac computers between our various client locations, AND WE DON'T HAVE A SINGLE MAC IN HOUSE to do stuff like OS X/Active Directory integration, or even the simple stuff, like "technician is at a client location, stumped about some printing problem on customer macintosh. Call in to main office to have mac expert help him through problem", oh wait, the mac expert doesn't have a mac on hand to try to recreate the problem or follow along the prompts with the tech on the phone. Guess the expert has to drive out to client location, wasting tons of time.
Look, if you want to experiment with a Mac and osX, then by all means go right ahead. It seems that you are trying to justify your purchase by telling us you had to finance it, and therefore apple is the only choice b/c it is slightly less evil than dell...
It's not an experiment. People asked my reasons for buying a mac, I told them. Jeez! :o
Since you are the CEO, you should never be backed into a decision. You have the ability to creatively deal with a problem b/c you are the boss. Excellent advice. :thumbsup:
maxanon
6 Jan 2005, 11:24pm
What's the interest like on a business finance?
Look, I read everything you said and everybody's responses....
I meant a g5 tower instread of a g5 iMac. I should have been more clear. Why anybody would want something with such a lack of upgradeability is beyond me.
Ok so newegg doesn't accept P.O.s. I would think with the money you could have saved vs. the $1300 financed, you could have come up with a better solution. Newegg accepts checks. I assume your business has some sort of banking account. Business credit card? You could have even started a new credit line specifically for this. I mean you are doing the same thing with Apple Finance essentially.
I understand that you don't want/need a gaming system for the office. I was trying to point out that you wasted money. A good office machine pc would be under $500, but
for the money you spent you could have had a elite gaming rig, or 2 office pc's.
Also, to me, it sounds like you the exact reason you want a Mac is to experiment with it. Troubleshooting customer problems is often described as experimentation. I don't really want to get into a debate on symantics though.
You started the thread and said flame away, and IMO, it seems like you are trying to justify your iMac purchase. It must be hard to waste money on a Mac, so you start this thread knowing that Mac-haters will say you are stupid, and then you can prove them wrong by qualifying your original statement a little bit at a time and, in the process, make yourself (and your accountant) feel better.
IMO getting a Mac is a creative solution (maybe, I guess you're saying, a little too creative). That service sounds extremely impressive though!
pseudonym
7 Jan 2005, 12:10am
Nice Prime, good to hear you found some customer service....
Why does everyone care that its a mac though. Hes using it for spreadsheeting, websurfing, and managing his business contacts, you don't need some monster powerhouse for that!! It does the job, it does the job well, and he'll be able to do everything he needs on it. Upgradability isn't a concern because of the use intended for the computer. This is business people. It isn't a waste of money if-
1) It improves his business speed instantly
2) Its probably more reliable than his old POS
3) He didn't waste valuable business or family time comparing prices, buying things, ordering them, installing everything, making the SMJ fix it, yadda yadda yadda.....
and.......
4) The cardinal rule of modern business... ITS THE CHEAPEST AND MOST EFFECTIVE OPTION FOR HIM. He not only gets a better computer, but he now has a mac to allow him to give better customer service to his weirdo mac clients ;D
primesuspect
7 Jan 2005, 1:00am
Look, I read everything you said and everybody's responses....
I meant a g5 tower instread of a g5 iMac.
Why would I want to upgrade it? Why would I want a huge steel tower under my desk? I want to reduce my clutter, not take up even more space. What will I need to upgrade? Ram? I can do that. Hard Drive? I can do that... What else would I need to upgrade for my email and SSH workstation?
This thing is small, flat, and clean. That's what I wanted.
Ok so newegg doesn't accept P.O.s. I would think with the money you could have saved vs. the $1300 financed, you could have come up with a better solution. Newegg accepts checks. I assume your business has some sort of banking account. Business credit card? You could have even started a new credit line specifically for this. I mean you are doing the same thing with Apple Finance essentially.
You keep saying that you read everything, but I'm going to have to quote myself again in order to show you that you didn't read everything:
I don't have a chunk of cash on me.
If I had the money in my checking account to write a $500+ check for, I would have done that. Fact is, december had 3 pay periods instead of two, which just kills me for monthly cash flow. The couple of weeks after a 3-pay month are about bone dry. Since you seem to be fluent in business terms, I will tell you without any embarassment that we do not have sufficient operating capital at this particular time to purchase any assets. Then, as my operating capital gets replenished by receivables, a pay period will once again be on me. It will be a few months before operating capital is back to a comfort zone. Therefore, leasing is a sound business decision for me. As I said before, if I'm going to lease, I may as well lease something that I have been meaning to buy for some time now anyway.
I understand that you don't want/need a gaming system for the office. I was trying to point out that you wasted money. A good office machine pc would be under $500, but
for the money you spent you could have had a elite gaming rig, or 2 office pc's.
None of which I need. How would having an elite gaming rig or 2 office pc's help my business? I made a purchase decision based on multiple uses for this particular asset. It will serve more than one purpose, whereas a gaming rig or two extra PCs would serve no extra purpose.
Also, to me, it sounds like you the exact reason you want a Mac is to experiment with it. Troubleshooting customer problems is often described as experimentation. I don't really want to get into a debate on symantics though.
Ok, sure. You're right. *shrug*
You started the thread and said flame away, and IMO, it seems like you are trying to justify your iMac purchase. It must be hard to waste money on a Mac, so you start this thread knowing that Mac-haters will say you are stupid, and then you can prove them wrong by qualifying your original statement a little bit at a time and, in the process, make yourself (and your accountant) feel better.
Sweet! I'm having fun, are you? This is WAY easier than debating with my wife, and I'm enjoying it a LOT more ;D
I said "flame away" mostly in jest, because I knew I would have the obligatory "omg macs suck" comments. :D
profdlp
7 Jan 2005, 1:21am
...You can see that I support mac clients - we support about 20 different mac computers between our various client locations, AND WE DON'T HAVE A SINGLE MAC IN HOUSE to do stuff like OS X/Active Directory integration, or even the simple stuff, like "technician is at a client location, stumped about some printing problem on customer macintosh. Call in to main office to have mac expert help him through problem", oh wait, the mac expert doesn't have a mac on hand to try to recreate the problem or follow along the prompts with the tech on the phone. Guess the expert has to drive out to client location, wasting tons of time....
That's a valid point. I worked for two computer repair companies that didn't have a Mac onsite. This didn't stop them from sending me out on field service calls when a Mac user called for service. It was a real learn-as-you-go experience (while the customer was footing the bill). I am proud to say that I do have a 100% success rate with the few of them I have had the opportunity to work on. I also had a few battles with bosses who didn't see the fairness in the fact that I adjusted my billed-hours downward as a result of having to learn as I went along.
As far as Newegg, did you know that they offer their own credit card now? It has taken all the willpower I can muster to resist the urge to get one. (I'd max-out any line of credit they gave me in a week :D )
prime, I'm not a mind reader, but I think the bottom-line is that you're getting a Mac because you want one. Why don't you just say that, and tell anyone who doesn't like it to pound sand? I'd still love you in the morning. :vimp:
I'd still love you in the morning. :vimp:
*gasps* WHAT WOULD SNUFFIE SAY!? ;D ;D
Ok now seriously... Prime, are you gonna post pics of this when you get it? take the back of and stuff? I really really really wanna see teh inside of this thing in detail. :) :D
MediaMan
7 Jan 2005, 2:37am
I have 3 MACs
1) Reboot at least once a day or it isn't a MAC.
2) Update the OS but usually by the final update...things go wonky forcing you to want to consider buying a new MAC.
3) A MAC upgrade is simple. Buy a new MAC. They don't upgrade well...hardware that worked well on OS 9.x...is worth poop on OSX.
4) MACs don't talk well to the rest of the planet for office document. The "hey look at my excel sheet." created on a MAC...may not do too well when sent to the windows world.
5) MACs are the graphic and video professionals "preferred" platform. Doesn't mean that they are better.
6) MACs are better for After Effects and Final Cut Pro.
7) After Effects is faster on Windows machines.
8) Windows machines are faster period.
9) MACs are more expensive.
10) Use a MAC...don't tinker with the damn thing. Buy it fully configured and equipped for the task you want it to do. After that...don't mess with it. Turn it on...turn it off.
:p
primesuspect
7 Jan 2005, 2:43am
Most of that list was indeed true until the G5s and 10.3 ... 10.3 is actually as stable as XP. Most of my customers reboot once a month, when I make them. Just like my XP customers.
Upgrades are fine since the G4s.... PCI, AGP, what else do you need? You can upgrade every component of a tower mac, except the "platform" (i.e. you can't really swap the motherboard), but you can get processor upgrades.
as for 4) on your list -- that's what we're working on. The technology and tools are there. Nobody knows how to do it right, that's the problem I intend to fix (at least in the metro detroit area :D )
Windows machines are indeed faster. I should properly say, x86 hardware is generally faster than "equivalent" mac hardware (comparing apples to oranges here).
9) very, very true. You pay for image, marketing, industrial design, chassis, and an actual american/english speaking support staff.
10) not at all true in my experience :p I've supported hundreds of macs in my career. I used to be in charge of all the macs at a region's worth of kinko's stores.... Believe me, I know how crappy they were. They are a LOT LOT better now.. Kinda like WinXP is better than Win95....
Ok now seriously... Prime, are you gonna post pics of this when you get it? take the back of and stuff? I really really really wanna see teh inside of this thing in detail. :) :D
Oh, and Mediaman... so what would you say if I told you that I bought this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5153534621
with plans to eventually upgrade it to a 1-1.7GHz G4 or dual G4, 1-1.5GB of RAM, a Radeon 9800 Pro, 9000 Pro, 8500, GeForce 4 or GeForce 3, a DVD or CD burner (possibly both) and some fast, big (7200rpm, 80-120GB) hard drives? Oh, and I wanna overclock it if I can. :D
I said "flame away" mostly in jest, because I knew I would have the obligatory "omg macs suck" comments. :D
O M G Macs SUCK
:D
Have never used one, have no idea. Just trying to participate a little ;D
primesuspect
7 Jan 2005, 6:29am
THAT'S what I've been looking for.... Thanks, Keto! :D
HEY PRIME!
are you gonna post pics of this when you get it? take the back of and stuff? I really really really wanna see teh inside of this thing in detail. :) :D
primesuspect
7 Jan 2005, 7:01am
I really doubt I'm gonna take it apart... I will take pics of it, though.
Leonardo
7 Jan 2005, 7:02am
Ah, great thread.
I don't think I could buy a Mac...or any computer for that matter that is out of a box. If I could buy the components separately and build the sucker, then I might consider it. I, and some of the others here at the forums were considered heretics after we built our first Intel machines! :eek: :confused: ;D
Prime, aww come on... you don't have to take it all the way apart, but you've gotta at least take the back panel off... I mean you've gotta do that to upgrade the RAM anyhow... and when that happens, I'd LOVE to see pics of it. :)
Leo: wanna build a Mac? There are all sorts of stores that sell apple parts, including logic boards, cpus, memory, etc., and there's also always ebay. I'm building myself one right now actually. I bought the logic board, CPU and video card off <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5153534621">ebay</a> the other day, and it should be here in a few days (I'm hoping by Saturday :)).
Leonardo
7 Jan 2005, 8:07am
What, like building a car where the parts have to ordered from the original manufacturer? Perhaps I'm ignorant on the subject, but don't you have to select from only a narrow spectrum of all-Apple parts, save the memory, video card, and hard drive?
Yes and no. It depends on the age of the computer and the part in question. Unless you buy a mac clone, your only motherboard brand is obviously going to be Apple (and I'm not sure if the clones didn't use Apple boards either). You can pick up a used Apple cpu on ebay or a mac surplus site, or you can get a CPU upgrade from a company like Sonnet. You can use a number of graphics cards on systems that don't have integrated graphics... the G4 I bought will take cards from a Rage 128 all the way up to a Radeon 9800 Pro. You can even use some PC graphics cards if you flash them to a Mac video BIOS.
Optical drive choice is limited to what the OS supports natively or what you can find 3rd party drivers for; my understanding is that they'll run any IDE drive (although older macs suffer from the same 137gb limitation that older PCs do, and I suspect the really old ones don't like drives bigger than 8GB either).
So no, it's not quite that limited. There isn't as wide of a selection as there is for PC parts, but it's not too bad...
Incidentally, when I applied for a job on campus, what they really snatched on to was the fact that I'd worked on Macs before in a sort of technical way. Despite the fact that I know tons more about Windows, I was the only choice for being the Mac guy. From that and this thread it really seems like Mac help might be in short supply. Therefore it's a wise choice to learn the Apple stuff well.
Aranyic
7 Jan 2005, 3:02pm
A mac is something I would love to try out..they are just something I've never used but always been interested in.
primesuspect
7 Jan 2005, 4:13pm
Macs are not nearly as proprietary any more as they were 3-4 years ago. You can open up a G5 tower and see the following: a motherboard, two processors, a handful of 64bit PCI-X slots, an AGP slot, some SATA drives, a normal AGP video card (albeit with a Mac bios, but anybody can re-flash a video card), and a normal optical drive.
You can get third party everything except for the motherboard (apple calls them logic boards).... You can upgrade the ram, video card, hard drives, optical drives, add SCSI raid, add network cards, USB cards, anything that will fit in a PCI slot and you can find drivers for.
mmonnin
7 Jan 2005, 8:11pm
Thats because they could make it all on their own and have to use PC parts.
muddocktor
8 Jan 2005, 12:53am
Prime, you have to face it, some of us still think that the Mac Idea just sucks! :D ;) :p
Seriously though, I can see why you decided to go with the Mac for your office, if for no other reason than to help troubleshoot Mac and OSX problems on your client's machines. Good business decision, I think. :thumbsup:
Leonardo
8 Jan 2005, 4:34am
Alright Geeky, thanks for your rundown. Sorry, just not appealing. To me, building from those limited options would be like ordering OEM parts for my Blazer - just not a custom truck. OK for my truck - I don't care; but not what I have in mind when I plan the architecture of a new computer and think through countless different performance parameters and research a multitude of manufacturers and vendors.
Absolutely nothing wrong with what you and Prime are doing - just not for me. Prime, I think your argument of being able to understand your Mac customers better is valid. Apart from that, you would just be blowing a big chunk of money.
primesuspect
8 Jan 2005, 4:39am
Even if that weren't the case, I still like OS X better than windows. I'll be very interested to see the headless imac that they will be coming out with next week...... That changes the whole "mac is too expensive" equation in a big way...
muddocktor
8 Jan 2005, 4:47am
I have a friend who is a serious Mac head (he collects older Macs) and I'm curious to see if he's going to buy the cheapo Mac. I bet he will, if the price is around $500.
Black Hawk
8 Jan 2005, 12:28pm
I bet he will, if the price is around $500.
http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0412expo2.html
God, for $500, the amount of suck factor packed into that Mac just makes me want to vomit.
comfortable
8 Jan 2005, 3:14pm
God, for $500, the amount of suck factor packed into that Mac just makes me want to vomit.
;D
looks like a nice idea geeky.... so you could take your graphics card, hard drives and dvd rw etc and use them in a mac??? obviously modding each to get it to work....
primesuspect
17 Jan 2005, 7:30pm
i got it today. Pics / experiences to follow. :mullet:
FormFactor
17 Jan 2005, 8:39pm
Screenies of you're favorite OSX features would be apreciated! :thumbsup:
Because the Mac Mini is getting very tempting!
profdlp
17 Jan 2005, 9:23pm
Screenies of you're favorite OSX features would be apreciated...
Does this count? :vimp:
primesuspect
17 Jan 2005, 11:02pm
Somebody asked about folding. I don't have any frame of reference for this protein, but:
[18:41:08] Protein: p1281_A21ext_d13_99phi
[18:41:08]
[18:41:08] Writing local files
[18:41:08] Testing CPU type...
[18:41:08] Done testing.
[18:41:08] Extra AltiVec boost OK.
[18:41:08] Writing local files
[18:41:08] Completed 0 out of 2500000 steps (0)
[18:55:18] Writing local files
[18:55:18] Completed 25000 out of 2500000 steps (1)
[19:08:55] Writing local files
[19:08:56] Completed 50000 out of 2500000 steps (2)
[19:21:40] Writing local files
[19:21:40] Completed 75000 out of 2500000 steps (3)
[19:33:52] Writing local files
[19:33:52] Completed 100000 out of 2500000 steps (4)
[19:45:55] Writing local files
[19:45:55] Completed 125000 out of 2500000 steps (5)
[19:59:39] Writing local files
[19:59:39] Completed 150000 out of 2500000 steps (6)
[20:13:17] Writing local files
[20:13:17] Completed 175000 out of 2500000 steps (7)
[20:27:52] Writing local files
[20:27:53] Completed 200000 out of 2500000 steps (8)
[20:41:01] Writing local files
[20:41:02] Completed 225000 out of 2500000 steps (9)
[20:53:05] Writing local files
[20:53:05] Completed 250000 out of 2500000 steps (10)
primesuspect
19 Jan 2005, 5:54am
okay, here she is. You have to take four screws out of the bottom to get it apart. I have not attempted this yet.
primesuspect
19 Jan 2005, 5:55am
This is what -tk sees from his desk.... Poor guy has Derek Zoolander staring at him all the time ;D
primesuspect
19 Jan 2005, 5:56am
I love the side slot-load DVD burner
qparadox
19 Jan 2005, 8:49am
sekseh :)
PressX
19 Jan 2005, 11:58pm
I started out my career working with then supporting Macs. At one point I was responsible for a network of several hundred mad scientists using them.
If Steve Jobs was a little more relaxed about their companies building systems to support the Mac OS twenty years ago we might have seen more around today?
I think they are great Machines. However, they do not pay the bills for me. Good luck with it Prime. See if you can find a copy of Marathon. I spent many an hour playing the network version on the studio mac... top game!
primesuspect
20 Jan 2005, 1:22am
well i took it apart today.
I thought the towers were well engineered, but I have to say I am VERY impressed with the level of engineering and detail that went into this machine. Every single piece is perfectly aligned, perfectly fitting, perfectly smooth.
One of my customers has a G4 iMac - the "dome" kind. I upgraded the HD in it once. It took me over an HOUR to get it apart - it was a nightmare of fitting computer parts inside of a hemispherical case, with the hard drive being at the top of the dome. It was like putting together a puzzle. For the first time, I had to make notes on the order of disassembly and size of each individual screw.
But this one? A marvel of efficiency and simplicity. There are three screws in the bottom of the machine. You lay the mac flat down on its face, and turn the three screws until they stop (they don't come out). Then, the back just lifts off the body.
primesuspect
20 Jan 2005, 1:29am
Now you have what appears to be similar to a tablet pc or a very big laptop. Imagine a laptop with a full size HD.
There are thermal zones, just like the G5 tower. Each hot component gets its own fan and wind tunnel, with clearly defined intake and exhaust. There is a seperate intake for the processor which goes through a long copper HS, and then vents out the top. There is a foam lip around the exhaust port which makes an airtight seal to the exterior when the panel is secured.
primesuspect
20 Jan 2005, 1:30am
Here's a shot of the foam lip on the exhaust port of the processor shroud
primesuspect
20 Jan 2005, 1:32am
standard 3.5" western digital 80gb SATA drive.
primesuspect
20 Jan 2005, 1:33am
card slot for wireless card
primesuspect
20 Jan 2005, 1:34am
another shot of the interior
primesuspect
20 Jan 2005, 1:36am
All in all, my experience has been really good. The machine is elegant, very quiet, and fast. This is by far the best iMac they've made. If someone crammed x86 hardware into a shell like this, most hardware geeks that I know would drool over the thermal system and the level of engineering that went into this. But since it's a mac, everyone makes fun of me (although you should have seen mr. grumpypants TheSMJ's face when I showed him how the lid came off and then the interior of the machine) ;D
Leonardo
20 Jan 2005, 2:38am
most hardware geeks that I know would drool over the thermal system and the level of engineering that went into this At first, I just raised rolled my eyes, thinking, "he's gone off the deep end, worshipping the Mac for its eye appeal". After more attentive viewing of those images though, I have to agree, it's impressive, elegant engineering. Wish one of their engineers had designed the cooling for this fast but poorly cooled Gateway Pentium M I'm typing on now!
profdlp
20 Jan 2005, 2:38am
I wouldn't make fun of it. I agree with you, it looks to be very well thought out. :)
Geeky1
20 Jan 2005, 2:39am
Interesting... you put AS5 on the CPU yet? :D
Geeky1
20 Jan 2005, 4:10am
At first, I just raised rolled my eyes, thinking, "he's gone off the deep end, worshipping the Mac for its eye appeal". After more attentive viewing of those images though, I have to agree, it's impressive, elegant engineering. Wish one of their engineers had designed the cooling for this fast but poorly cooled Gateway Pentium M I'm typing on now!
I wouldn't make fun of it. I agree with you, it looks to be very well thought out. :)
;D ;D
You guys will find that if you look at them objectively, the newer macs- at least the G4 tower, G4 cube, G5 tower, and G5 iMac, as well as possibly the last G4 iMac-the one that looks like a desk lamp-and maybe the G3 (I haven't seen the inside of either the G3 or the newer G4 iMac in detail) are all very, very well designed. As is the Minimac, in point of fact (I refuse to call it the mac mini, because Minimac just sounds cooler :p).
This is off Apple's page on the new Minimac:
Most low-cost PC manufacturers slap together Frankenstein machines by hacking away features from the high end (of three years ago, anyway) and putting the warmed-over parts in ill-fitting cheap plastic boxes. They don’t really have a choice, since they don’t design any of the parts, from operating system to motherboard. That’s why most budget PC cases seem to be littered with a mish-mash of uncoordinated stickers from every component vendor on the planet. But Apple engineers can handcraft a new machine from scratch. For Mac mini, that means taking the time to decide just which elements make a Mac a Mac and then figuring out how to shrink them. And that process just happened to reinvent the whole concept of a desktop computer.
Cut out the hyperbole and marketing bull**** and look at the two statements I bolded. They're right. While it allows them to produce highly proprietary systems with limited upgradeability if they so choose (e.g. mobos with the CPUs soldered on, the new Minimac which has 1 DIMM slot, etc.) it also allows them to carefully integrate the whole system. Open up a G5 or G4 tower, and you won't see much of anything, if anything at all, in the way of cabling until you look for it, in the G5 especially. Despite the possible lack of cpu power (depending on who you listen to), you generally can't fault their engineering.
primesuspect
20 Jan 2005, 4:17am
It seems like they hired a fresh new crop of engineers around the time the G4 tower came out. Suddenly macs became these amazingly well thought out machines. The G4 tower was the first case I ever went "wow!" at when I opened it up to work on it. You pull a ring, the whole thing unfolds like a book, with everything right there for you to work on. I've never seen a G4 cube in person. The G4 iMac (the desklamp one) - that one is not so hot... It's a total nightmare to work on. But the G5 tower and the G5 iMac are simply stunning to work on. The tower is flawless. There is not a cable to be found in there. The power leads are all rails, even the sata bus only has a tiny little nub of a cable to go to the bus. It is a masterpiece of case engineering, and I'm beginning to feel the same way about the iMac version.
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