Something happened last night...

[GHoosdum]

It has been quite a weekend. I started off by deconstructing my PC that is in the Antec Aria case, in order to start the ball rolling on my case mod and eventual upgrade of the PC.

I planned on selling the pieces of that PC (XP2500+ & nForce2 chipset mobo) and so I migrated my 9800 Pro into the 'media PC' that's just been sitting and gathering dust for months. This PC is a AMD64 3000+ on the Socket 754 chipset.

I started by installing XP Pro 64-bit edition, and that ran fine for 2 days without really a hiccup, aside from the fact that I had no ability to print or connect to the web through WiFi, so I wound up scrapping that idea.

I installed XP Pro (original w/SP2) on the PC, and that borked very quickly. So I did it again. This time it worked just fine. I was even able to update everything and play some AoE3 before bed last night. I went to bed, thinking everything was just fine. Unfortunately, something happened last night.

I woke up this morning and the PC had shut itself down. At first I figured that maybe there had been a power outage last night that lasted longer than the UPS battery, so I thought all was cool and I pressed the power switch. Nothing happened.

By this time, I was not a happy camper. I popped the side of the case open to see if maybe by some fluke the power switch connector had popped off the header on the mobo. Nope. Then I noticed that the LED on the mobo was off. To me, it seems like the PSU is dead. How the heck can an Antec TruePower die with only about a year of use under its belt?

Anyway, I connected up a spare PSU that I have to the motherboard power connection points (20 pin and 4 pin) and to the 9800 Pro. When I plugged in that PSU, the green light came on on the mobo. However, when I press the power button, the PC still doesn't respond at all, even after a CMOS clear. Did my PSU die and take out the mobo with it?

Please tell me there's hope!

[Mt_Goat]

Have you tried bothe PSU's on another system?

Have you tried taking the board out of the case and trying again?

I know you know the drill but sometimes we just get bogged down with how things look at the moment. For the heck of it, what are the specs of the rig?

[GHoosdum]

I haven't tried the PSUs on another system yet, but I will once I get enough pieces that weren't in this system together.

For my second test, with the new PSU, I had the board out of the case, with just the RAM, Video Card, and CPU on the board, and just the board's two power connectors and the video card's one plugged in.

Here are the specs:
Asus K8N motherboard
AMD64 3000+ (2.0GHz) Socket 754 CPU
1 GB (2x512) Corsair TwinX PC3200
Radeon 9800 Pro
80GB IDE Drive (System)
200GB SATA Drive (Data)
Hawking Tech HWP54G WiFi card
XP Pro 32-bit w/SP2
Old PSU (that didn't show power LED on mobo): Antec True380S (came out of an Antec Sonata1 case stock)
Backup PSU: Antec 400W SL400
Case: Generic Aluminum Newegg $18 special

When I turned over the Antec 380 to look at what model number was on it just now, I heard something rattling inside. :eek:

[Mt_Goat]

....... When I turned over the Antec 380 to look at what model number was on it just now, I heard something rattling inside. :eek:Ouch!!!
That is definitely not a positive sign. And I have certainly been familiar with PSU's and other components taking out mobos when they go. I guess all you can do is to isolate the bad parts through individual testing.

Good luck. :thumbsup:

[GHoosdum]

Thanks, Larry - I'll need the luck. I can only test everything except for the mobo and CPU, since this is my only Socket 754 system.

I'd be content if just the PSU were blown away, but since the system won't boot (or even try) with the new PSU, I'm not feeling too good about this. :(

[muddocktor]

GH, if you need the processor tested, send it my way and I'll drop it in one of my DFI folder systems. That's if you don't have anyone within driving distance that has a 754 system, of course.

I had an Antec PP412 blow out last year and it was exciting to say the least, with sparks and smoke and everything. :shakehead Luckily it didn't take out anything else on that system though.

[GHoosdum]

Thanks, mudd, I may have to take you up on that offer. I'll let you know. :thumbsup:

[TheSmJ]

I bet it was a power surge. Do you have good power protection on the system (like a UPS)?

I've replaced PSUs through Antec before and have no complaints.

[profdlp]

...Or do they disallow RMA if it's the PSU's fault the mobo goes out? :scratch:
Unless you're certain that was the case, why tell 'em? For all you know it was the MB that took the PSU out. (If the MB is actually bad, of course.) :cool:

[GHoosdum]

I bet it was a power surge. Do you have good power protection on the system (like a UPS)?

I've replaced PSUs through Antec before and have no complaints.

Yup, it's hooked to a UPS. I'll give Antec's RMA a shot. And possibly Asus' too, if my mobo is fried. Or do they disallow RMA if it's the PSU's fault the mobo goes out? :scratch:

[deicist]

whoa...time warp?

[GHoosdum]

whoa...time warp?

I guess I'd better check the clock on my notebook. ;D

Thanks for the advice, prof! :thumbsup:

[profdlp]

The server is having a midlife crisis. Next thing you know it'll buy a sports car and dump prime for a trophy wife. ;)

[deicist]

The server is having a midlife crisis. Next thing you know it'll buy a sports car and dump prime for a trophy wife. ;)

I wondered why Shorty had started wearing that blonde wig...... :D

[profdlp]

I wondered why Shorty had started wearing that blonde wig...... :D
;D ;D ;D

I'm gonna tell... :vimp:

[GHoosdum]

I just returned from a vacation today. I had slapped together all of my working pieces to provide my sister with an operational PC. Upon returning today, this system is doing exactly what the other one did, sans PSU rattle.

I am not happy. :shakehead

[profdlp]

Was it plugged into your UPS as well?

Whether it is or not, with what looks like two blown PSU's in a row it might be time to check your wall outlet. :(

[GHoosdum]

I don't know if it's a blown PSU yet, but I was able to get this board to boot with only CPU, RAM, and Video on a different PSU, along with a different power switch, just a few moments ago.

I'm going to test my wall outlet with the tools I have. Unfortunately, it's not much.

[profdlp]

Your UPS software will probably give you a lot of details concerning the source power. Also, one of these is cheap and is great for looking for grounding and polarity problems:

[GHoosdum]

Your UPS software will probably give you a lot of details concerning the source power. Also, one of these is cheap and is great for looking for grounding and polarity problems:

Good point. I guess I'll be installing the UPS software on the notebook, then.

That particular tester is the exact tool I was referring to. I've got one of those and one of those little pen-looking things that you can test whether there's power to the circuit or not, but it works inductively, not like a continuity tester.

Then again, one of my best friends is an electrician, so if I can't find what's wrong, I'd be willing to bet that he can. I've asked him to help me run a dedicated circuit for the two outlets for the PCs in the office, but we won't have time until spring. Hopefully a new outlet will suffice for now.

[GHoosdum]

Here's the latest update:
I have put a system together using my Chaintech mobo & XP2500+ with my 2nd backup PSU. It boots and goes to Windows, but the USB ports don't seem to work any longer for keyboard and mouse. I'm not sure if it's a hardware failure or something else, but I'm looking into it this weekend. I hope to have the system up and running soon, and the pineapple released into the wild ASAP.

[Sledgehammer70]

Sorry for not responding to this earlier, but I have a few of those aria Cases and have found that the stock PSU's suck! I have replaced both of my Aria PSU's due to failure and just down right constant issues. I did a bit of modding to the case to allow a full sze PSU to mount on the back :) they both run liek champs now...

)ne being almost the same as yours a AMD Athlon 64 3000+ on a 754 socket with 2 gigs ram and a 6800GT graphic card.

The other one is running a AMD Athlon 64 3800+ on the 939 socket set, with 1 gig ram and a 6600GT graphic card.

Both system run very cool with the 2 modded 1200MM fans I put on both sides...

[GHoosdum]

The thing of it is, my system has run without a hitch in the Aria for a year now. It was only when I put it together in the big aluminum case with the TruePower PSU that it fried. It strikes me as quite odd.

[profdlp]

For the USB stuff, have you checked your BIOS settings? What SP is installed for WinXP?

...It was only when I put it together in the big aluminum case with the TruePower PSU that it fried...
Sorry if I missed this in the thread, but did you check all the standoffs?

Also, what type of standoffs does it use? Are they the familiar screw-in brass thingamajigs, the clip-on type, or just conical protrusions on the MB tray?

[GHoosdum]

SP2. BIOS is the first thing I thought of and I plan on checking tonight, and now that you mention it, I had reset the CMOS jumper just for grins when I pulled the mobo out of the aluminum case and put it into this spare case; the default setting may be USB keyboard/mouse disabled. If it's that simple, I will be thrilled.

The aluminum case uses the normal brass standoffs, and I had the mobos screwed down to those using fiber washers under the screws. There's some kind of (steel?) nuts attached to the back of the aluminum case's removeable mobo tray. Actually, they're not really nuts per se, because they are rounded off, but they are threaded to receive the brass standoffs.

[GHoosdum]

The loss of my notebook (http://www.short-media.com/forum/showpost.php?p=346946&postcount=13) got me off my butt to look at the main rig again, so I got it back up and running today after swapping master & slave on the HDDs. It turns out I was trying to boot into a different Windows install, one that had nF3 250 drivers installed instead of the nf2 drivers for the Chaintech mobo I'm using, and that's why the freaking USB keyboard wouldn't work.

As far as the UPS goes, I'm going to swap it out. The device wasn't recognized when I tried to connect to it with the Bulldog software and it was showing "USB device failed to install properly" message in Windows when I connected it.

I'm also going to be replacing the outlet. This evening, in fact.

[muddocktor]

Sorry to hear about the notebook going down on you, GH. Hopefully it's something simple like the hard drive crapping out. I guess you will get to get your money's worth out of the extended warrantee coverage you bought with the notebook at least.

[GHoosdum]

Yup. That's the bright side I keep trying to look on.

[GHoosdum]

The PC is shut down and unplugged right now; I didn't get to the outlet change yesterday. I will do it tonight and report back tomorrow. I'm a little wary of going to sleep and letting it run even with everything changed out, but I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt tonight.

[profdlp]

You may want to ask around in the neighborhood and see if there are others having similar problems. I don't know about where you live, but back when I worked in Washington D.C. they were fond of dropping our 120V line down to 80 or 90 volts. (This won't apply to your situation, but since they didn't do it on every phase at the same time we lost a few 3-phase motors until we put phase protectors on them.) You may have a brand new electric panel, but it could be that what is coming in is messed up.

It's not quite straw-grasping time, but your problems seem somewhat outside of the laws of probability. Have you offended any wizened old crones lately? They're famous for putting nasty curses on people. :hair:

[GHoosdum]

I'm beginning to suspect I may be cursed as well.

It could be the power coming into the whole house that is at issue, but I'm not sure that makes total sense, because it's only the PCs at my desk going crazy. l33t wife's PC is connected to the outlet on the next wall over from my PC, and she hasn't had a single issue (knock on wood).

Here's the scenarios I can think of that may have led to the issue:
1. Bad power to house - fried my PC twice and notebook HDD, wife's PC doesn't show signs due to better PSU (Antec True 430)
2. Bad power at outlet - fried my PC twice and notebook HDD, specific to this location.
3. Bad UPS - fried my PC twice and notebook HDD, location specific.
4. Aluminum case was bad - something grounded improperly and fried PC twice, notebook issue unrelated (?)
5. By chance, two PSUs (Antec!) were bad, and so was a notebook HDD - they all decided to fail within a month of each other.
6. Somebody laid a curse on me.

Here's how I rank them in order of most likely to least likely:
2, 3, 1, 4, 6, 5

My ultimate goal is to get voltage regulators on both PCs, but it'll have to wait because I'm very broke atm.

I'll be selling off most of my surviving parts bin items soon, and I'll hopefully be able to afford a power-regulating UPS or a voltage regulator that can handle both PCs and new UPS with that.

[GHoosdum]

Strange... Best Buy called me yesterday and left a message stating that they can't detect any problem with the HDD. They booted the PC up just fine and ran it for 24 hours, even ran diagnostics on them without detecting a problem... now why would it not even detect the HDD for me, but run just fine without a hitch for them? :scratch:

[profdlp]

Were they testing your whole system, or just the HD? If the latter, it sounds like you either have a bad IDE (or SATA) Controller (or other MB problem), or that the PSU is failing. :(

[madmat]

Pull that socket and put a new one in...check the power with a DMM and see what the voltage is reading and if it's steady. If it's fluctuating go check the breaker box and find out what's happening on the breaker that plug's on and tighten it up if need be. The wife's could well be on another breaker. If that still doesn't cure it run an extension cord (the big industrial type) over to your desk from the wife's plug and be done with it.

[profdlp]

GHoosdum, if you don't have a multimeter please let me know. I may have a solution for you.

Sorry if you've already answered this - I'm too lazy tonight to re-read the whole thread. :vimp:

[GHoosdum]

Were they testing your whole system, or just the HD? If the latter, it sounds like you either have a bad IDE (or SATA) Controller (or other MB problem), or that the PSU is failing. :(

Sorry, I forgot to mention that this is the notebook. I wouldn't trust my real system to anyone but myself. ;) Their voicemail said that they ran HDD diagnostics, I doubt they ran anything else.

Pull that socket and put a new one in...check the power with a DMM and see what the voltage is reading and if it's steady. If it's fluctuating go check the breaker box and find out what's happening on the breaker that plug's on and tighten it up if need be. The wife's could well be on another breaker. If that still doesn't cure it run an extension cord (the big industrial type) over to your desk from the wife's plug and be done with it.

I plan on replacing all of the outlets and switches in the office (almost immediately); the house was built in 1971 and all of the branch wiring is aluminum - I'll be using all modern aluminum-rated stuff.. There's not much chance that my wife's outlet is on a different breaker, because all 3 bedrooms are on 1 breaker - ah the wonders of 1970's electrical code.

GHoosdum, if you don't have a multimeter please let me know. I may have a solution for you.

I don't currently have a multimeter, but I was planning to pick one up.


Thanks guys!

[profdlp]

...I don't currently have a multimeter, but I was planning to pick one up...
If you can wait two or three days I'll mail one out tomorrow. No charge. :wave:

[GHoosdum]

If you can wait two or three days I'll mail one out tomorrow. No charge. :wave:

I'm not going to complain about that. THANK YOU, PROF!:celebrate

[profdlp]

...I don't currently have a multimeter...]
HAHAHAHA - I just noticed this.

Ohm sorry about that, amp I promise to put up no resistance if you want to rectify this shocking situation. I can be such a volt at times... :p

[muddocktor]

GH, if the wiring in the house is aluminum, I highly recommend that you terminate to the receptacles with a copper pigtail for the hot and neutral lines at least. They make a special goop to put into your wire nuts to stop oxidation and electrolysis between the aluminum and copper connection and with copper pigtails, you don't have to worry about the wire/receptacle connection oxidizing or working loose. My mother's old house had some rooms done in aluminum and that's what I ended up doing to cure the electrical problems

[GHoosdum]

HAHAHAHA - I just noticed this.

Ohm sorry about that, amp I promise to put up no resistance if you want to rectify this shocking situation. I can be such a volt at times... :p

Sometimes (and I mean most times) I really don't even know how to reply to what you say. ;D

GH, if the wiring in the house is aluminum, I highly recommend that you terminate to the receptacles with a copper pigtail for the hot and neutral lines at least. They make a special goop to put into your wire nuts to stop oxidation and electrolysis between the aluminum and copper connection and with copper pigtails, you don't have to worry about the wire/receptacle connection oxidizing or working loose. My mother's old house had some rooms done in aluminum and that's what I ended up doing to cure the electrical problems

For all of the outlets that see a high load (such as the PC connections) I'm pigtailing all 3 leads with the IDEAL Al/Cu Twisters (http://www.idealindustries.com/wt/TwistOnWireConnectors.nsf) (scroll down - the purple ones). For all of the outlets that see low load conditions, I'm installing CO/ALR rated receptacles (http://www.cooperwiringdevices.com/catalog/category_productsearch_result.cfm?UproductId=4323&keyword=Keyword%20or%20Product%20%23&srch_category=1050&Category_id=1050) and switches (http://www.cooperwiringdevices.com/catalog/category_productsearch_result.cfm?UproductId=3745&keyword=Keyword%20or%20Product%20%23&srch_category=938&Category_id=938), after applying antioxidant compound (http://www.idealindustries.com/IDEAL-EZ/products.nsf/ItemMasterLookup/p30-031?OpenDocument) to each of the leads. I'd pigtail all of them, except each of those purple wire nuts is $2.50 - that runs me $7.50 per receptacle that I pigtail, more if I screw up, since the Al/Cu wire nuts are one-time use. I also plan to eventually run new copper straight to some of the locations, such as he office outlets for the PC. Until then, I'm pigtailing them.

Before I bought the house, I did as much research as I could - I even called the local fire marshal, who told me that there is no record of any house in my town that was wired with aluminum branch wiring burning down, or even having a fire due to the wiring, so I'm pretty confident that my precautions will be enough - most people don't even go to the level of precaution that I'm going to, I'm sure. All of the Aluminum wired homes that I know of in my town(several hundred) were built by the same builder, Ryan Homes, back in the early '70s. I tried contacting the builder for details on the Aluminum wiring, but they told me that all of the records from that era are stuck in deep storage, never to be seen again.

[muddocktor]

Sounds like you are well aware of and are on top of the situation, GH. :thumbsup: I'm glad to hear that you are attacking the problem aggressively too. Aluminum wiring can be done safely, but it ends up being just as expensive as copper once all the extra steps and parts are used for house wiring. After all, most of the power lines run are aluminum due to it's lighter weight, strength and cheaper price to do the job. Once I did the pigtails to the sockets in the 2 rooms that had aluminum wiring, all the problems went away at my mother's house.

[GHoosdum]

That's great to hear, mudd. It means there's hope for me yet!

[GHoosdum]

Latest Update:

Asus accepted my RMA and I've mailed the S754 mobo to them. I should be getting a refurb board back from them in 10 days or so.

Antec replied to my tech ticket by telling me to fax them an RMA request form, which I did last week. I haven't heard back yet.

The 3000+ CPU, stuck to its HSF with AS Ceramique, fell off of the cabinet in the office. I don't know how it fell, maybe me, maybe the dog knocked it down... anyway, the thing hit the edge of an old 17" CRT pins first, and crushed about 1/3 of the pins flat. I've managed to get most of them relatively straight, but I'm not holding out much more hope for this CPU. :(

I got a fortune cookie on Saturday that said "Your luck is about to change"... on Sunday the CPU fell. I don't think my luck changed yet.

[GHoosdum]

New development, totally unrelated:

I was talking on the phone last night to a friend of mine. Meanwhile, l33t wife says "Uh oh" from the kitchen table, where she is working on a C++ program on her notebook.

She had just spilled an entire 16 ounce glass of apple juice through her notebook, from the keyboard down. Apple juice literally poured out of every orifice the notebook has.

Luckily, she shut it down immediately (it did not short out and power down that way) and we used a roll of paper towel, a fan, and her hair dryer on it (I took out every user-serviceable part and dried each individually). A few hours later, we booted it to see the damage... and it booted into Windows! Unfortunately, we couldn't get past the logon screen because each keypress yielded about 6 characters in the password box.

I shut it down and stripped it again, and, against all of my instincts prohibiting the mixture of water and electronics, I sprayed the keyboard with purified water. I was literally shaking as I performed this act. Then, we applied paper towel again, then the hair dryer, and finally we had the fan blowing on high on the keyboard, with the notebook on its side, all night.

This morning, I was able to boot into Windows, and every single key worked. I think we dodged a bullet this time.

Now, aside from running memtest and Hitachi's HDD utility (assuming they have one for the Travelstar drives) is there anything I'm forgetting that I can do to verify this thing survived intact? And will my string of luck ever get better?

[MiracleManS]

And will my string of luck ever get better?

I would say that your luck changed when you didn't have to get your wife a new laptop. The fact that you gave it a bath should be reason enough for you to believe that your luck has changed. Any normal person gets liquid (especially something sticky like juice) on a notebook and still has a functioning piece of equipment has just met their quota for good luck for the next few months.

[GHoosdum]

The latest:

l33t wife's notebook is still working just fine (whew!)

Asus tells me my RMA'd mobo is on its way back to me. We'll see how things go when it arrives!

Good point, MiracleMan. I guess it was good luck that the notebook survived.