Building a Computer

[Shackle]

I have been lurking around this site for a few days now and only registered today. Basically, I am here to get some advice on a computer I want to build for my nephew. Initially I was looking for a site where I could get advice on which manufacturer I should contact, but I found this forum and, after seeing various threads about computer building advice, decided to see if I could find help here.

Since my nephew's last birthday, when he mentioned he was in dire need of a new computer, I have been setting aside some money which has amounted to somewhere around $12,000 (USD). I don't mind going a little bit over this amount but would like to stay in this range if possible.

From what I know, my nephew is very into games and often plays in tournaments and such. He is also very obsessed with anime and I am told that he is a part of a subbing group(?)

Having talked to his sister, I have been told not to purchase a monitor, keyboard, mouse, speaker, and headset or microphone of any kind.

From what I have seen from other threads, I am hoping I can get some good advice. Thank you in advance.

[csimon]

My advice, Hmmm ...well take out $1200 for a computer and set the rest aside for college!

All kidding aside ...you've come to the right place. Lots of helpful folks here.

[Nightwolf]

Do you have any preferences? Amd vs. Intel, or nVidia vs. ATi, SLi vs. Crossfire?

[Leonardo]

I don't know what research you've done or what your hardware and software skills are. Computer building is not as difficult as most people would think, but it's also much more then, er, the sum of the parts assembled into a whole. If you haven't done so already, scour the web for computer building guides.


AND A GREAT PLACE TO START IS RIGHT HERE, WITH YOUR SHORT-MEDIA FORUM'S GUIDE TO BUILDING A COMPUTER (http://www.short-media.com/review.php?r=151). Some of the technology in this article is already getting old, but all the principles and specific building steps are up to standard.

You should already have a game plan for building and installing software before you order your first part. Again, not so difficult to do, IF you are prepared.

Concerning the computer you wish to build, what is the objective? How will it be used? How long will it need to be considered a 'fast' machine. Does it need to look special? Is there a size restriction? Does your request for advice include monitor, keyboard, and mouse also?

[Shackle]

Do you have any preferences? Amd vs. Intel, or nVidia vs. ATi, SLi vs. Crossfire?

I really do not know. As this computer will be for my nephew as previously stated and since I am doing this as a surprise for his upcoming birthday, there really is not a good way to find out. I will ask his sister if she knows his prefrences.

I don't know what research you've done or what your hardware and software skills are. Computer building is not as difficult as most people would think, but it's also much more then, er, the sum of the parts assembled into a whole. If you haven't done so already, scour the web for computer building guides.


AND A GREAT PLACE TO START IS RIGHT HERE, WITH YOUR SHORT-MEDIA FORUM'S GUIDE TO BUILDING A COMPUTER. Some of the technology in this article is already getting old, but all the principles and specific building steps are up to standard.

You should already have a game plan for building and installing software before you order your first part. Again, not so difficult to do, IF you are prepared.

Concerning the computer you wish to build, what is the objective? How will it be used? How long will it need to be considered a 'fast' machine. Does it need to look special? Is there a size restriction? Does your request for advice include monitor, keyboard, and mouse also?

I won't be building the computer myself. A friend from work has offered to build it for me as long as I have the plans for the computer set.

My objective for building this computer is to hopefully please my nephew who's birthday present it will be. I am assuming he will use it for games and anime as I have previously stated.

Also as I have previously stated:

Having talked to his sister, I have been told not to purchase a monitor, keyboard, mouse, speaker, and headset or microphone of any kind.

[QCH]

I cannot, in all faith, spend more than $6,000 on a PC. I'm not an expert but here's a starting point:

CPU - AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+ Toledo 1GHz FSB 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket 939 Dual Core Processor ($630).
Motherboard - ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce SPP 100 ATX AMD Motherboard ($230).
Memory - OCZ Titanium 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Unbuffered DDR 400 (PC 3200) (4 sticks @ $132 each).
Video Card - ASUS EN7800GTX/2DHTV/256 Geforce 7800GTX 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 VIVO PCI Express x16 (2 cards to run SLI @ $475 each).
Power Supply - Thermaltake Purepower W0083RU ATX12V/ EPS12V 600W ($140)
Hard drives - SAMSUNG SpinPoint P Series SP2504C 250GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive (4 drives @ $100 each)
DVD Burner - LEXTOR Black 16X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 16X DVD-R 4X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2M Cache IDE DVD Burner ($80)
DVD-Rom - ASUS Black 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM IDE DVD-ROM Drive Model DVD-E616AG ($25)
Case - Lian Li V SERIES PC-V2100B Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower ($290)


I'm just throwing out some quick numbers.... that's around $3500. Now you need Windows XP, and any other applications you want installed....

[Shackle]

I have no desire to waste the entire $12,000 if I do not have to. Thank you for the point in the right direction.

[Nightwolf]

Q has set up a great performer. It'll run any game that comes out within the next phew years.

[QCH]

Only thing I just saw is that the Lian-Li case mounts the motherboard upside down and that kills the Asus motherboard... Or so someone commented. There were a few cases that are just as good as that one.

Side note... I went with a single CPU (dual core) but you could go with a multi CPU config but that's a bit overkill for a kid. Spend thew extra $$$ on education!!!

[csimon]

Yeah heatpipes do not perform well when inverted.

[Leonardo]

multi CPU config but that's a bit overkill for a kid Additionally, the suggested parts included four hard drives. Are you sure you want a hardware-inexperienced user running a RAID array?

[QCH]

Well... if the guy that is building it knows about it, a nice RAID 1+0 will give the kid speed and data backup. Nothing worse than relying on one hard drive and never back it up...

[Armo]

Yeah heatpipes do not perform well when inverted.

really? i never knew that, that could explain why my temsp whent up when i changed to a lian li case.

[Leonardo]

It's not an Asus motherboard problem per se, but rather heat-pipe chipset cooler design. The passive coolers' pipes were designed thermal transport with board oriented in a conventional ATX setup.

[V|P]

I'm not as good as these other guys, but really if you got $12,000 to work with, go with Alienware or Monarch and they'll build one for you. I think this would be best as you have enough money. In my case, I didn't have but $1300 to spen so i had to build myself. I'll customize one on thier site and post the specs for one under 12 later on. If you have any knowledge, go to Alienware.com and customize one. It is pretty easy as they give little notes that tell you what each part does. When in doubt, with that kind of money, go with the most expensive part!!! haha no dont do that. O and if these guys convince you to build one yourself, don't worry its not hard. I started to do the same research as you only 3 or 4 months ago, and although i got to admit that it took me about 50 guides, 20 forums (SM counts as 10 since its so awesome :tongue2: ) and a crapload of nervousness to build it. But its working fine and although i had some problems at first, SM helped me solve them. Just look around SM you'll find atleast 10 threads taht i started for help. I LOVE THIS PLACE. I still come here even though I'm done building. This place almost beats NEWEGG!!!

EDIT: This site (http://www.pcmech.com/build.htm) really helped me a lot, although it's really long.
illustrated guide coming as soon as i find it

[Leonardo]

I don't think I could disagree more, Scar.

If Shackle's friend is an experienced builder, he can build just as good or even better computer than Alienware. The main difference between the premium builders' machines and custom computers built by experienced do-it-yourselfers is the expensive brand identity that comes with a commercial shop's machine. That badge is awfully expensive. A couple websites have recently been reviewing premium boutique computers. Guess what, they get shipped with problems just like Gateway, eMachines, and HP. Their customer service is superb, but that customer service comes with a premium price.

[QCH]

Alienware - Aurora™ 7500

Processor: AMD Athlon™ 64 FX-60 with HyperTransport and Dual Core Technology
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional with Service Pack 2
Warranty: 3-Year AlienCare Toll-Free 24/7 Phone Support w/ Onsite Service
Power Supply: Alienware® 650 Watt ATX 2.0 Power Supply
Chassis: Alienware® Full-Tower Case - Cyborg Green
Chassis Upgrades: Alienware® Acoustic Dampening with AlienIce™ 2.0 Video Cooling
Motherboard: Alienware® nForce™4 SLI™ Motherboard
Graphics Processor: Dual 512MB PCI-Express x16 NVIDIA® GeForce™ 7800 GTX - SLI Enabled
Video Optimizer: AlienAdrenaline: Video Performance Optimizer
Memory: 4GB Low Latency Dual Channel DDR SDRAM at 333MHz - 4 x 1024MB
System Drive: Extreme Performance (RAID 0) - 320GB RAID0 (2 x 160GB Serial ATA II 3Gb 7,200 RPM w/16MB Cache)
Primary CD ROM/DVD ROM: 16x DVD-ROM Drive with Software DVD Decoder
Secondary CD ROM/DVD ROM: 16x Dual Layer DVD±R/W Drive
Sound Card: Creative Sound Blaster® Audigy® 4 Pro High Definition 7.1 Surround Sound with Dual Firewire
AlienRespawn: Alienware® Respawn Recovery Kit
Power Protection: Opti-UPS ES1500C 1400VA (980W Capacity)

Total: $6,184.00

A bit more than WHOA...

[Leonardo]

Power Protection: Opti-UPS ES1500C 1400VA (980W Capacity) Oh, yes. Shackle, you should also include an uninterruptible power supply, given that money is not a limiting factor. Get a good quality APC brand UPS with backup voltage to spare.

[reelbigfish]

All good recommedations so far. I would definitly go with a dual core processor no matter if you go with Intel or AMD, but since this is a gaming rig I would definitly go with AMD. I would recommend NOT going with SLI, as it is quite expensive, and it is usually cheaper to upgrade to the next gen single card. Also, go with 1 hard drive or 2, but not in a RAID setup because this is for an inexperience user.

[jradmin]

All good recommedations so far. I would definitly go with a dual core processor no matter if you go with Intel or AMD, but since this is a gaming rig I would definitly go with AMD. I would recommend NOT going with SLI, as it is quite expensive, and it is usually cheaper to upgrade to the next gen single card. Also, go with 1 hard drive or 2, but not in a RAID setup because this is for an inexperience user.


Not going with SLI when you have $12,000.00 to spend on a system is like buying a station wagon when you want porsch. Even the next gen Nvidia card in March won't be as fast by itself as 2 7800GTX 512's in SLI. What he needs to do is put back around $2000.000 after he builds this comp for next years birthday so he can buy the latest cards again =D

[reelbigfish]

I disagree. Will he really notice a difference between 1 or 2 gfx cards? Probably not. Who knows what resolution he will play at or if he will use FSAA or AF. The money could be better spent on future education.

[Armo]

i think for starters we need more information to build a computer that is a gargin for what he intends to do with and powerful at the same time. Obviously hes not going to want to spend $12000 on a computer, I would set aside at MOST $2000.

how old is your nephew? do you know what his primary functions on a computer are, school work, games, digital imaging, movie editing?

a good "all 'round" pc

Asus A8N32-SLI
at least a AMD 64 4000+
at least a gig of good ram
at least a 250 gig hard drive
at least a 450 watt good quality PSU
at least a 6800GT or equivilant ATI x1600
the Lian Li cases are truly awesome
a good quality DVD burner ( Lite-ON, BenQ, Pioneer, NEC )
of if he needs a monitor a good quality ( viewsonic, samsung ) CRT or LCD screen



we just need more information about what this will be used for, like my machine. my machine is a variable black hole of storage space, it didnt come cheap, but thats what it was designed to do.

[jradmin]

I disagree. Will he really notice a difference between 1 or 2 gfx cards? Probably not. Who knows what resolution he will play at or if he will use FSAA or AF. The money could be better spent on future education.

Have you ever gamed with an SLI system compaired to a single card system? I do. I actually have my SLI rig sitting next to a single card 6800GT rig for my GF and there is an entire universe of difference.

Unless this kid is like 6 years old...trust me he will know a difference.

[reelbigfish]

I have actually, and no I didn't notice much of a difference. The cost of the second GPU is high and not worth the extra cash in my opinion. I play UT2004, BF2 and Doom 3 all at 1280x1024 with at least 2xFSAA and 4xAF and they look wonderful. I have an SLI board, but adding to it won't make it that much better that it is a driving force.

And respondign to Armo, that is a good rig. Personally I would go with a dual core. Anything in the AMD Athlon world that is 2.0Ghz or faster is enough CPU for todays games, and the dual core will handle tomorrow. The CPU is no longer the real bottle neck with most games, so the 7800GT/GTX or ATI Radeon x1900XT are great choices for anything above that speed. I would go with at least an Athlon 64 X2 3800+.

[jradmin]

If this kid is very obsessed with games, which the OP says he is...then yes he's going to know the difference between playing BF2 at medium level or playing it at high or even extreme (which is possiable and playable on SLI) and not bogging down everytime you get an explosion in your face.

How can you tell this poster that SLI isn't a big difference when his nephew is very into games and plays in tourneys? He is ovbiously old enough to know how to play games and know what resolution to play them at. You're not going to convince me to tell him not to build his nephew a kickass gaming rig...cause if its not SLI or Crossfire then its not totally kickass. It's not even argument worthy.

2 7800GTX SLI scores around/over 16000 points on 3Dmark05. 1 7800GTX scores around 11000 points. Yeah, I don't see much difference there either.

[reelbigfish]

jradmin, I am simply stating my opinion that I do not think SLI is worth the money one pays for it. Bickering isn't helping the original poster.

I would say go with:
DFI LanParty UT RDX200 Crossfire Motherboard
AMD Athlon X2 4800+
2GB (2x1GB) Corsair XMS DDR SDRAM
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD3200KS 320GB 7200 RPM SATA Hard drive
Antec TruePower 2.0 TP2-550 Power Supply
MSI Radeon X1900XT
Lian Li Case
Pretty much any DVD Burner will do, I like my LiteOn

This way he can always go Crossfire.
If he likes Nvidia, go with a 7800GTX and the Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe. Also, as stated before, if you go with the Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe, don't get an inverted Lian Li case, as it will mess with the heatpipe technology.

[jradmin]

My personal preference would be this:

MOBO = A8N32 SLI Delux. ATI's latest release of vid cards has been rather dissapointing (No real new technology, just alot of overclocking) and not worth wasting money on crossfire systems till they get their head out of their butts.

CPU = AMD X2 4800+ or FX 60 if your feeling like really shelling out $$

GPU = 2 x 7800GTX 512 in SLI. Pretty much cut and dry the most awesome gaming experience you'll ever have.

RAM = 2 GB OCZ Platnium or Gold series. Very good overclocking RAM. OCZ is a wonderful company and their products are very high proformance and reliable.

HDD = WD RaptorX 150GB 10,000 RPM SATA. Fastest WD HDD available on Newegg.

PSU = OCZ Modstream 520W PSU. Again, OCZ rocks.

Case = Not to sure, I usually mod out my own =D

reelbigfish, I'm not arguing =) I'm giving you my opinion based on personal and professional experience as well as benchmarks from sites all over the web.

[csimon]

The Asus A8R32-MVP Deluxe is due on the market week after next. It supposedly already in stock but they're not releasing it just yet. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this board sight unseen.

[Omega65]

The Asus A8R32-MVP Deluxe is due on the market week after next. It supposedly already in stock but they're not releasing it just yet. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this board sight unseen.
Csimon you know you never recommend a v1.0 piece of hardware to a Noob! :nudge:

[csimon]

Csimon you know you never recommend a v1.0 piece of hardware to a Noob! :nudge:
LOL ...well no but technically it's an upgrade to the A8R ...with a newer chipset ...and more sata2 ...and no 4 prong power connector ...and ;D

[Omega65]

Rumor has it that the A8R32-MVP Deluxe will be the new king of Overclocking mobos.....

But still - new chipset, new motherboard.......New Issues :D

[reelbigfish]

reelbigfish, I'm not arguing =) I'm giving you my opinion based on personal and professional experience as well as benchmarks from sites all over the web.

I know, and I don't disagree, that is a killer rig. Either way Shackle builds the rig for his nephew it will be great. I think the one thing we all agree on is for gaming go with AMD!

Shackle, any updates on which way you think you are leaning? When it comes to actually building the computer, let us know and we will surely help. Also, I think one thing we are all forgetting is the HSF. I'd say the Thermaltake Big Typhoon, as it is super quiet and a great cooler for Intel and AMD, just make sure it fits in the case! This way he can overclock, but if he doesn't overclock it will still be super quiet.

[Leonardo]

A big 'Amen, Brother' from me on the Big Typhoon. Advice concerning case to accept it is on the mark. Ensure that the case is deep enough so as to allow unobstructed airflow into the top of the heatsink's fan.

[Gobbles]

CASE COOLER MASTER Praetorian PAC-T01-EK Black Aluminium - $108.50

PSU Antec TPII-550 ATX12V 550W - $89.99

DVD PLEXTOR DVD Burner Model PX-740A/SW-BL - 80.99

HDD SAMSUNG SP2504C 250GB 3.0Gb/s 2x$100 - $200.00

MOBO ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe - $224.99

HSF ZALMAN CNPS9500 LED 92mm - $63.99

MEMORY OCZ 2GB (2 x 1GB) DDR 400 (PC 3200) - $221.00

CPU AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+ Toledo 1GHz FSB - $630.00

VIDEO XFX Geforce 7800GT 256MB GDDR3 2x$295.00 - $590.00

SOUND Creative X-Fi XtremeMusic 7.1 - $121.99

MONITOR SAMSUNG 214T-Black 21.3" 1600x1200 8ms - $679.99

SPEAKERS Creative Inspire P7800 7.1 Speaker - $86.00

KEYBOARD Standard Value Keyboard - $7.00

MOUSE Logitech MX518 - $38.89


Subtotal: $3,138.33

[V|P]

All good recommedations so far. I would definitly go with a dual core processor no matter if you go with Intel or AMD, but since this is a gaming rig I would definitly go with AMD. I would recommend NOT going with SLI, as it is quite expensive, and it is usually cheaper to upgrade to the next gen single card. Also, go with 1 hard drive or 2, but not in a RAID setup because this is for an inexperience user.
hey you got the money get the dualy. leo i agree with you with the premium cost thing. thats the main reson i decided last minute to BUILD mine. anyway i didnt have the money but he does. And also, there is the warranty that comes with the manufacturer for the whole thing. when you build, u get warranties for each part. also for unexperienced people like me, it may take forever to diagnose the problem and then it could get a bit messy. anyway it's his choice. we just make suggestions.

[V|P]

CASE COOLER MASTER Praetorian PAC-T01-EK Black Aluminium - $108.50

PSU Antec TPII-550 ATX12V 550W - $89.99

DVD PLEXTOR DVD Burner Model PX-740A/SW-BL - 80.99

HDD SAMSUNG SP2504C 250GB 3.0Gb/s 2x$100 - $200.00

MOBO ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe - $224.99

HSF ZALMAN CNPS9500 LED 92mm - $63.99

MEMORY OCZ 2GB (2 x 1GB) DDR 400 (PC 3200) - $221.00

CPU AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+ Toledo 1GHz FSB - $630.00

VIDEO XFX Geforce 7800GT 256MB GDDR3 2x$295.00 - $590.00

SOUND Creative X-Fi XtremeMusic 7.1 - $121.99

MONITOR SAMSUNG 214T-Black 21.3" 1600x1200 8ms - $679.99

SPEAKERS Creative Inspire P7800 7.1 Speaker - $86.00

KEYBOARD Standard Value Keyboard - $7.00

MOUSE Logitech MX518 - $38.89


Subtotal: $3,138.33

thnx gobbles i didnt get around to makin one on the website

[Shackle]

Work is getting in the way of allowing me to come here to give updates, so I have asked my younger brother to do it for me. He should drop by today.

[Thrax]

Which is the better overclocker? The A8N32 series or the DFI Ultra-D/SLI-D(R) series? I've had some very sour experiences with Asus in the past, and I am hesitant to ever go back.

//EDIT: Nevermind. I don't like the A832N's layout or the BIOS options. The inclusion of a second x16 lane is irrelevant to me.

[jradmin]

Which is the better overclocker? The A8N32 series or the DFI Ultra-D/SLI-D(R) series? I've had some very sour experiences with Asus in the past, and I am hesitant to ever go back.

//EDIT: Nevermind. I don't like the A832N's layout or the BIOS options. The inclusion of a second x16 lane is irrelevant to me.


Hence why I have not yet bought it either. Its not worth the extra $40-50 to get 10 more FPS at best. I'd have to swap out my heatsink and fan for one that fits...and I really like my Zalman.

[Shackle]

This is shackle's brother. My nephew is only a year younger than me, turning 18 in about a month (just to specify). He was once what you called a pro gamer before he stopped playing games about a year ago. I dont know about other games but I remember he was once in the top three best played in cali for SC. He's starting to get back into games and his team in cal league( dota, wc3ft) is number one in their division. Hes played bf2 and other newer games on my computer and wants to begin playing them competitively. Unfortunately, his computer can probably only handle up to wc3ft. He does prefer AMD over Intel and likes full tower cases.

Well ill be around to answer any questions and whatnot.

[Leonardo]

Thanks for the info. That does temper what we recommend. This truly should be a no-holds-barred gaming rig.

What are your nephew's computer hardware skills? Has he built, upgraded, or repaired computers before?

[Shackle]

He built his last computer and upgraded it about a year later.

[Esso]

Try to find out what kind of games your nephew is playing.
Also it would be good to know what his present pc hardware is.

If he likes overclocking or not.

12000 USD is some what overkill in my humble opinion.
Somewhere around 2000-5000 USD would be enough.
(Also when is your nephews birthday.)
Its going to be around Mars 18 as I read in the previous post.

Requirement:

He is going to play bf2 and other newer games.
He prefer AMD over Intel and likes full tower cases.

[Omega65]

Which is the better overclocker? The A8N32 series or the DFI Ultra-D/SLI-D(R) series? I've had some very sour experiences with Asus in the past, and I am hesitant to ever go back.

//EDIT: Nevermind. I don't like the A832N's layout or the BIOS options. The inclusion of a second x16 lane is irrelevant to me.
The DFI Expert is the best OCing mobo (there is also a new NF4 SLI-DR Venus (http://us.dfi.com.tw/Product/xx_product_spec_details_r_us.jsp?PRODUCT_ID=4515&CATEGORY_TYPE=LP&SITE=US) model). The Asus limits voltages (if you need them) on the Dualcore CPUs. Also.../

Tbreak: nForce4 SLI vs SLI X16 (http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/article.php?id=436)
We initially started out by conducting tests at only 0X and 4X AA however looking at the benchmarks in the previous pages, we really didnt see any difference at all. We contacted nVidia about this and they suggested doing tests using 8X and 16X AA and thus we went back and benched all four games using that setting as well. Besides Quake4, we really do not see the X16 posting higher results in anything else. In fact, Serious Sam 2 and Call of Duty 2 consistently showed the older nForce4 SLI performaing better in most of the benchmarks.

That being said, we recently asked DFI why their latest limited Venus series of nForce4 boards was not based on the X16 chipset and we were told that the Venus board would produce results equal to or even faster than an X16 board. Also keep in mind that ATI has the faster solution with the x1900 and Crossfire at the moment and neither ATI nor Intel is making any noise about requiring anything above than an X8 slot.

We're not saying that X16 doesnt provide the bandwidth it promises. It sure does, but we think that two x16 slots are a bit of an overkill- at least for the current generation of graphics cards. Its time will come when graphics cards get fast enough to require that much bandwidth but we really don’t see that happening too soon and by that time, we're sure that two x16 slots will pretty much be the standard in all motherboards.

Nuff Said