PDA

View Full Version : Work Problem


Nomad
24 Jul 2006, 05:57pm
I was contacted on the eighth of June by a client I'd done previous work with to do revisions on a project that had been completed back in April of this year (Over my spring break, which has some relevance). I gave a reasonable timeline for the revisions, I said it would be done in about a week and a half. I ended up finishing quicker than expected on July 14th.

Afterwards I was asked to make more revisions, which were completed and sent back the following day, June 15th. This was actually the fourth set of revisions done to the work, two of them were done when the work was initially completed.

Typically, I do not charge for revisions to work because most of them involve color correction, or things that I have done that the client wants slightly modified (IE, their vision and my computer didn't meet and were a little off). However, on these sets of revisions, the client changed major components of the render multiple times, chairs, wall art, color schemes, cabinetry, etc. While the changes were not extensive enough to warrant recharging the initial price of the renders, they were enought to bill them for revisions. My reasoning is that he was adding and changing things that I did not 'goof' on.

Once completed with the revisions on the 15th of June, I began working on a two-story loft given to me by the same client. Within about a week I had it completed. Since I'm out of school (And work) for the summer, I worked on the project about ten hours a day and finished it on the 23rd of June. On June 27th, after not hearing about any revisions to the project, I sent a bill for the total cost of the two-story loft and the revisions done on the older project.

Despite the fact I had charged this client for revisions in a similar fashion over the last two and a half years, I recieved a phone call in which he essentially said he was not going to pay the revisions. He also said I was producing the images too quickly to warrant the total cost of the projects, however when I produced both projects in question I was on spring break and summer break, allowing me to work whenever I wanted (Upwards of ten hours a day) as opposed to working from 3:00 PM to 5:00 PM after school for a month. The projects were not any more than he'd been previously charged, and were markedly less than anyone else who does this kind of work in town if he were to go through a firm for the drawings.

Since he was disatisfied with things, I thought it best to lower the price and cut out the price of revisions instead of losing a pretty regular client. Essentially this was a 25% cut in price, which I was unhappy about but had I not done this I doubt I would have recieved any money. The initial bill for the full price was sent on the 27th of June, the revised bill was sent on July 11th. I did not hear from the client for nearly two full weeks. Last night--July 23rd--a reminder was sent with the bill attached again. This morning I recieved a message in which the client wants me to meet with him July 31st, since he is out of town, to discuss my invoice and changes.

My personal stance is I am unwilling to make changes on a project I have yet to be paid for that will, by the time of the meeting, have been completed nearly a month and a half ago and the revisions more than a month and a half ago. I feel pretty jerked around in terms of pricing, which has stayed regular over the past two years and things have always been completed in a timely manner. I feel as if my client realized that the project he gave me was very similar to a project done previously for another location, and is trying to get out of paying for it.

My question with all this is at this point what should I do? This was my summer job, and I have not been paid for it. I very much need the money for college in about a month and there doesn't seem to be any hope of payment.

GHoosdum
24 Jul 2006, 07:24pm
If I were you, I'd be pretty unwilling to compromise. You've earned every penny you invoiced him for, by working for it the exact amount of time you billed him for. I'd demand payment in full, on principle.

Nomad
24 Jul 2006, 07:36pm
That is my personal feeling as well, however it's slightly more complicated. I've gained many other business contacts through this one client, and there is a good chance if relations sour (IE me demanding my pay) that it will severely jepordize my chances of work. However, it is unlikely that after this month I will be working with those people anyhow since I am moving to Michigan State for college in August.

Leonardo
24 Jul 2006, 07:46pm
If you are moving and value this client, despite his weasel tactics, I'd just grin and bear it. I think I would try to get what you can out of the dispute, but be professional and a gentleman. This client could be very valuable to you for future referrals. In the future, as you gain more business/consultant experience, you can learn how to better prepare offers and contracts in writing. As ties with this client will probably severed naturally by your moving away, it is not the right time make big waves. It would not benefit you in the long run.

primesuspect
24 Jul 2006, 07:55pm
On the other hand, if he knows he can walk all over you, he will do it again. He's 'testing the waters' to see how strong of a stance you will present. You have to be willing to walk away to gain any bargaining power, and if you are not willing to walk away, then he wins, and you must grin and bear it as Leo suggested. However, you might find that the risk of losing him might buy you a lot of credibility as a businessman, and you may find a measure of respect gained by your client.

Leonardo
24 Jul 2006, 08:00pm
if he knows he can walk all over you, he will do it again. He's 'testing the waters' to see how strong of a stance you will present I agree, Sir. My comments were based on the fact that young Mr. Nomad is leaving in August. Were he to remain where he is now, then yes, he would not want to gain a reputation as being a patsy and a weak negotiator. I just think that the risk-reward ratio, given he's leaving, would suggest that a conservative approach is prudent, to not make enemies, even though the justification for aggressiveness is there.

Nomad
24 Jul 2006, 08:25pm
For the last month I have been pretty conservative about things, I've tried my best not to get annoyed with playing hours of phone tag and other things like that. Even when I do get in contact with the client the discussion is really short. I get the feeling this business meeting next week just won't happen at all.

Winga
24 Jul 2006, 08:52pm
I'm a firm believer never to burn ones bridges in life. The wheel turns and it has a funny way of coming back to bite you.

I face similar situations to what you do in my line of work. Sometimes I can make thousands of $$$$ from a transaction that literally takes me half an hour of paperwork. When the client questions the cost, I remind him he is not paying for my time, but rather my knowlege and expertise.

In the same way, maybe you can give him a breakdown and analysis of the time you have spent on the project and show him that even if it was done a lot faster than his expectations, you still gave him the same quality of work he has come to expect and rely on. The fact that he has refered people to you shows he is impressed with your work.

If you are able to do it faster than most, it's a testimony to your abilities. Make sure he understands that and that time framing your work is unfair. If you feel you must compromise to keep the client and the peace and want to negotiate, draw a price line somewhere and do not go below that. If he is a businessman he may not like it but he will respect you for it!

profdlp
24 Jul 2006, 10:55pm
Everything the others guys have mentioned. :)

A reminder that he is paying for a product and not just shelling out for an hourly wage might be in order, too. Point out that giving up your Spring "break" to finish the job 4X faster was an added convenience for him, not a windfall for yourself. You could just as easily have spent the week hanging around with your friends and turned in the project a month after it was commissioned as usual.

csimon
24 Jul 2006, 11:22pm
I'm in the same boat with a planner/designer. I spent 36 hours of manual board design and drafting and got nothing. To make it worse I went out and spent $500 on a board and supplies.

airbornflght
25 Jul 2006, 12:23am
I'm in the same boat with a planner/designer. I spent 36 hours of manual board design and drafting and got nothing. To make it worse I went out and spent $500 on a board and supplies.


ouch.

You should get your money, he paid you for a product, not for your time like a sacker at walmart. At this point he is paying you to deliver a product that you are capable of. You delivered the product therefore he should have an obligation to pay for it. I would draw up a contract if you havent, and make it very clear the terms of the transaction. My grand dad is a retired Civil Lawyer/Petroleum Engineer, I had him draw me up a document for when I work on peoples computers That limits my liability of certain things and also about the charges that are incurred, becuase I was burned a few ties by some weasles, and in the words of Edgar Allen Poe, I said "Never more"

NiGHTS
25 Jul 2006, 01:41am
Leo and Prime summed up what I would have said anyway. It is unfortunate to be put between a rock and a hard place as far as this deal is concerned, I hope that it works out for the best...whatever happens.

However, I would most definately add a clause in your contract stating that payments for revisions NOT deemed a color change or "cup-on-table" will be added to the end price, as the rendering time is leading to your diminishing returns on the project itself. Knowing you, though, I'm sure this has already been done.

Good luck buddy.

LawnMM
26 Jul 2006, 05:10am
My ex girlfriend is a graphic designer and she would run into similar problems such as these with freelance work. I will give you the same advice I gave her. For starters I want to re-affirm what has already been said.

If you have a set price, there should be very little wiggle room granted to your client. If you permit them to change prices for work after you have invested the time, as Prime suggested, it is a test of the waters. They are trying to see how much haggling they can get away with. If he can get himself a 25% discount by threatening not to pay, he's going to use that again and again.

I also understand the need for a good client base, and not wanting to burn potential bridges in the business world. Here is the advice I gave my ex. Never send them full working production work. I would institute a half payment at the beginning of the work, half upon completion plan...especially when dealing with freelance non-contract work. If, as you have already no doubt realized, the client decides not to pay...you've invested lots of time and have little recourse to get it back.

Ask for half your fee up front, with the second half upon completion. Let them know you are willing to refund percentages of the fee if you finish early, or you can always deduct the difference from your second half. Never send them anything thats a full working, full res, production copy of what they want till you're paid. You can show them what it looks like on your own machine or a laptop if they like. They don't get the finished product till you get paid.

csimon
26 Jul 2006, 01:59pm
yeah half up front is not unreasonable. When I was contracting my house they all wanted half up front and the other half on completion. If the half exceded $500 and they didn't deliver ...I called the cops.

Nomad
1 Aug 2006, 03:39pm
Well, I had a meeting with him at 10 AM today after three weeks of screwing around. I should say, I was supposed to have a meeting. I walked all the way up to his office (No car) only to have him meet me and say that his secretary put me in on his computer calendar but not his notebook calendar, and that he'd call me for a meeting in about an hour.

I talked to him very briefly in which he expressed interest in completely rechanging the furniture again and creating new views. This is ridiculous, at my next meeting I am refusing to change anything until I recieve some form of payment for work already done. If he was just going to not pay for the project I'd rather he tell me than dicking around.

Clutch
1 Aug 2006, 06:35pm
Ouch man that sucks. It seems that he is trying to get as much out of you for free myself. I have dealt with those kind of people before with working on computers here at work for those type of people. If he is screwing around with you and not paying, I would demand full payment or no more work or changes. There is no reason why he shouldn't see all that you have done for him and not pay you if he is a business man himself. I know he wouldn't want someone to do the same thing to him.

LawnMM
1 Aug 2006, 06:37pm
He's gonna keep pushing you around till you push back. Don't waste any more time on it. If it was fixing an error I could see doing it for free. Making obvious changes and creating new views and additional work beyond what was contracted you need to be compensated for.

Figure out what he owes you and don't do a thing till you're paid up. Whats he gonna do? Walk? You'll be no worse off than you already are.

primesuspect
1 Aug 2006, 06:38pm
He's 'testing the waters' to see how strong of a stance you will present. You have to be willing to walk away to gain any bargaining power, and if you are not willing to walk away, then he wins, and you must grin and bear it