no pci-e slots. am i living in the past?

[djshowdown]

i have an old radeon 7200 card that is quite honestly a bit pants. has never handled games very well and is a bit lacking

what are my options with regards to upgrades?

I have an Intel D875PBZ motherboard if that helps

am i correct in thinking i need an AGP card?

please help, my knowledge in this area in particular is near enough non existent

[Leonardo]

Yes, you are correct. Your motherboard has no PCI-express slots. If I am correct, the highest rated video cards for AGP readily available now are the ATI X800 and Nvidia 7800 series. You might still be able to find a 7900 Nvidia.

[djshowdown]

are any of those any good? or at least, better than what i already have by some distance?

[Karoum]

As for the AGP version of the ATI x800XT, is it any good? I have a radeon 9800PRO and I am looking for an upgrade, but if the card is pricy and wont give that much bang for my bucks, Id rather change my mobo for something bigger in some months (heard quad cores were coming out so I may get cheap dual core).

[Donut]

In another thread I read earlier, I believe Sledge recommended a 7800gs(?) as an upgrade over the x800 series cards.

If you plan on changing mobos in a few months I'd think about going PCI-E.

[RWB]

are any of those any good? or at least, better than what i already have by some distance?

Better than a 7200? OH YES!

[Sledgehammer70]

The 7800GS is the best AGP card on the market currently, It will run any of today’s games on high settings.

ATI's only AGP high end card lacks in support of the new tech, mainly SM 3.0 which is a huge component in today’s games. I am willing to bet you would see a 400% increase in gaming depending on how much ram you have and what CPU you are running.

[djshowdown]

thanks alot ppl

for the record i am running a P4 3.0 Ghz with HT and have 1 GB of PC3200 ram

although i am looking to upgrade the ram to 2 GB when i got the money

not looking to change the mobo as im not confident enough to do that myself. i am looking to build another pc from scratch to see what its all about so maybe after i have done that then i will have a go. right now im too scared :(

can anyone recommend any other cards as alternatives as this one is over £200 here in UK. if this is the best value for money then fair enough but what are my options if i just cant spare that much?


much thanks for all your replies thus far peeps!

[muddocktor]

Actually, there are also AGP video cards using the ATI X1600 and X1650 gpu's too, which are of a later generation than the X800 series also and support SM 3.0 too. But Sledge is right in that the AGP cards using the 7800GS gpu are the highest performance cards on the market now. Gainward did release around 1500 AGP cards in the UK earlier this year that used the 7800 GT gpu, but were very expensive and sold out really fast. But that was a very limited run and they didn't ever come out with any more after that initial run of cards either.

As far as value for the money though, you might look at the X1650 Pro gpu video cards. I'm not sure of shops in the UK, but I know that newegg has them for about half the price of the 7800GS AGP cards here in the US.

I just looked up an online UK vendor and I see that Klomett.co.uk has the Gainward GeForce 7800GS+ 512MB (http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?sku=319889) for a decent price. I know this is even more than you are looking to spend, but that is about the fastest performing AGP card on the market and that is a decent price for it too.

For a much more affordable video card Klompett is getting this Sapphire X1650 Pro (http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?sku=325504) AGP video card for £95 any day now, which is more in line with your budgetary needs. And the X1650 Pro GPU also supports shader model 3.0 too. But it isn't in the same league as the 7800GS+ card I linked to either, performance-wise.

Now I don't know how klompett is to deal with or anything though. I have no experience buying anything in the UK, but there are quite a few people who frequent these forums that can recommend a quality store to buy from for a fellow countryman.

As far as future upgrading goes, AGP boards are about at their end now. But Asrock is making an inexpensive Core 2 Duo capable board based on the Intel i865G chipset that has AGP and DDR support that I will be experimenting with next week, for a cheap upgrade for an older P4 machine. This board will let me run the latest and greatest Intel cpu while still keeping my old AGP card and DDR memory. I will be posting about how the upgrade goes next week. :)

[SPIKE09]

Hi DJ this link if it works should point you over to ARIA, a UK based supplier I have used them for a while now no problems, fast delivery and excellent price range. check the web super specials, as they sometimes have very good prices. Best advice look at the options and post back which you like the look of and folks can give you advice, based on what you like.

http://www.aria.co.uk/ProductsList.asp?Category=15&SubCat=&Name=&Page=1&SortBy=1

[SPIKE09]

Asrock is making an inexpensive Core 2 Duo capable board based on the Intel i865G chipset that has AGP and DDR support that I will be experimenting with next week, for a cheap upgrade for an older P4 machine. This board will let me run the latest and greatest Intel cpu while still keeping my old AGP card and DDR memory. I will be posting about how the upgrade goes next week. :)
Asrock CONROE945G-DVI, i945G, o/b GMA950
Asrock 775Twins-HDTV R2.0 o/b ATi X300
Asrock ConroXFIRE-E SATA2 i945P
If it is one of this lot you are looking at the I can report from the micromart UK, that we have had success with all three they are not overclocking boards but stable and good value, some probs getting the FSb above 300 though.:bigggrin:

[Thrax]

Rumour has it that eVGA is going to release an AGP version of the ATi X1950 Pro! That'd be great news for you AGP owners.

[djshowdown]

my mobo apparently only handles up to 4x agp

will all these 8x ones be going to waste if i install one?

also for the software spec of that sapphire one it says windows vista. does that mean i NEED vista?!?!?

[Thrax]

AGP 8x is no faster, in the real world, than AGP 4x. AGP 8x was all marketing.

No, you won't need Vista.

[djshowdown]

nice one thrax

i was worried for a second there

am currently searching for the two cards mentioned and trying to find better prices

anybody got any more suggestions they wanna throw in the mix?

[djshowdown]

how much better is the x1650 as opposed to this one

http://www.microdirect.co.uk/ProductInfo.aspx?ProductID=12905&GroupID=330

[djshowdown]

i know i am asking alot of questions but can anyone tell me if im gonna have a problem fitting these cards?

some of them look pretty chunky and im wondering wether they are gonna be physically too big to fit into my mobo

http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/bz/pix/D875PBZ_lg.jpg

[Karoum]

Found the 7800GS card (cdn price): Is that it?

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1819505&CatId=935

[Sledgehammer70]

the problem with a x1900 agp card is there is not enough lanes to feed it form the CPU, so you will see a huge hit in perofrmance. four x just wont due...

[muddocktor]

djshowdown, yes, that should be a decent video card for your needs. I think the X1600 Pro is just an older version of the same gpu, but I think they also shrunk the process down with the X1650 Pro series and should theoretically overclock better and run slightly cooler. But I'm not positive on the process info though. And even with a 2 slot solution like the 7800GS cards, you should have plenty of room on your board since it's a full sized ATX board. You just wouldn't be able to stick anything into the first pci slot below the agp slot.

Sledge, the X1950 Pro might just finally be enough gpu to actually use most of the bandwidth of an 8X AGP slot. I don't think you will see hardly any performance hit due to bandwidth constraints; you might lose a little performance from the translator chip they will have to use to convert that PCI-E gpu to an AGP signal. After all, the whole PCI-E thing was forced on us by that evil Intel as AGP was nowheres close to being flooded out. Hence the statement by Thrax that there is almost no performance difference between AGP 4X and AGP 8X.

[djshowdown]

Microsoft really care nothing for the consumer do they

thanks alot for the help guys

i will probably go for the cheaper option

A) the price is more within my range
B) the more expensive one would probably be overkill for what i need

thanks for the help though ppl

you can bet I'll be bothering you all with questions next time i upgrade something!

anyways

peace

[Leonardo]

dj, I'm glad we were able to help.

By the way, computer technology moves at a very rapid pace, much faster than say, with automobiles. If you had a ten year old computer, probably none of teh parts, except maybe the fans, would be usable in a new computer. This is not a Microsoft problem. It's just the way technology works. At a point, the upgrade options for any computer become minimal.

[Sledgehammer70]

The X1900XTX has proven to use over 8x at peak performance....

[muddocktor]

The X1900XTX has proven to use over 8x at peak performance....

But the X1950 Pro has less pixel and raster pipes than the X1900XT gpu too, so I don't think it will take a massive hit in performance like you alluded too earlier. Even if it does take a slight performance hit it will still be a viable upgrade for an AGP system that is otherwise a pretty good machine and extend the machine's gaming prowness. If you are running a socket 939 system like I am, it would still be a good investment because otherwise I would have to upgrade everything else in the system too, since socket 939 is now a dead platform and going to AM2 would also make me have to buy a new processor and ram along with a new mobo.

EDIT: And dj, I'm glad we could help you out with some advice man. Be sure to let us know how well your system performs after the upgrade. And sometime next week I should have some results on my experiment with the new Asrock board that's based on the i865G chipset that is Conroe capable too. Something like this might be an option for you in the future if you want improved performance out of your computer but don't want to have to buy all new components besides the ram and mobo. :)

[djshowdown]

well thus far i have opened my case to clean in and have changed the dvd-rw

thats about as much as ive done with regards to modification

maybe one day i will get the guts to swap the mobo

is it really as simple as just moving all the stuff to the new one?

[Karoum]

Hey, just a question: Woudn't you guys testing all those new and cool parts have older spare ones you would be willing to let go for some money? I mean, if I can get good parts cheaper than retail and you get to get rid of your old ones for some money, its a win/win situation in my book.

[djshowdown]

By the way, computer technology moves at a very rapid pace, much faster than say, with automobiles. If you had a ten year old computer, probably none of teh parts, except maybe the fans, would be usable in a new computer. This is not a Microsoft problem. It's just the way technology works. At a point, the upgrade options for any computer become minimal.

my comment on microsoft was'nt just relating to the issues raised in this topic

its many others too

like their new policy for vista with regards to upgrades

probably not really relevant but anything to have a dig at microsoft

windows could be such a wonderful program as well

instead its quite good

[djshowdown]

@ Karoum

im sure people would be willing to offload their stuff for cash

but in this particular case it probably wouldnt be worth your while

the card i have at the moment can be had for about £16 in the uk lol

i also have a dvd-r/w that will read and write dvds slowly but cannot read or write to cd's

not that it would be any good to anyone

[muddocktor]

Hey, just a question: Woudn't you guys testing all those new and cool parts have older spare ones you would be willing to let go for some money? I mean, if I can get good parts cheaper than retail and you get to get rid of your old ones for some money, its a win/win situation in my book.

Yeah, I generally sell my old parts when I upgrade through the Deal Depot here. Depending on how the new board works out, I will be selling the old parts (mobo and cpu) in a week or so.

[Sledgehammer70]

But the X1950 Pro has less pixel and raster pipes than the X1900XT gpu too, so I don't think it will take a massive hit in performance like you alluded too earlier. Even if it does take a slight performance hit it will still be a viable upgrade for an AGP system that is otherwise a pretty good machine and extend the machine's gaming prowness. If you are running a socket 939 system like I am, it would still be a good investment because otherwise I would have to upgrade everything else in the system too, since socket 939 is now a dead platform and going to AM2 would also make me have to buy a new processor and ram along with a new mobo.

I agree it won't be a massive hit in performance, but to note the PCI-E versions of AGP cards always tend to be faster cards. The 7800GS is a spit image of a 7800GT, the GT is about 5-10% faster overall. Not that it would be noticeable if you are not a hardcore gamer like myself, but there is a performance loss.

[Leonardo]

Hey, just a question: Woudn't you guys testing all those new and cool parts have older spare ones you would be willing to let go for some money? You bet! For many of us, there is a nearly constant upgrade and sell-off cycle. Check out our Deal Depot & Trading Post (http://www.short-media.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=21). You can sell and buy computer parts there.

[Thrax]

I agree it won't be a massive hit in performance, but to note the PCI-E versions of AGP cards always tend to be faster cards. The 7800GS is a spit image of a 7800GT, the GT is about 5-10% faster overall. Not that it would be noticeable if you are not a hardcore gamer like myself, but there is a performance loss.

Yeah, it's just bus latency.

[djshowdown]

is this one worth getting
http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?sku=318040

or should i wait for the one that was posted before
http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?sku=325504

[checkmate]

*Checkmate Cries*

[muddocktor]

If it would be me, I would wait for the X1650Pro, since it is supposed to be coming in stock in a week or less. It's a little newer tech than the X1600Pro with a smaller process type used, which means less heat and a little better overclocking prowness. And it's only £5 more too.

EDIT: The X1650Pro also uses a faster type of ram also, even though it's only half of what the X1600Pro has onboard. The extra ram will only help in limited situations whereas the faster ram should help more overall.

[Sledgehammer70]

I would wait for the X1650Pro

[djshowdown]

ok that sorts that then

checkmate, dry your eyes

[muddocktor]

Rumour has it that eVGA is going to release an AGP version of the ATi X1950 Pro! That'd be great news for you AGP owners.

Looks like the rumor might be true, but the company doing it is wrong. I just found this at The Inquirer (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35350) that says that the Powercolor X1950 Pro AGP will be available in about 4 weeks. Here's a quote of the article:

POWER COLOR might be one of the first companies to launch a RV570 based AGP card. We wrote about ATI reference AGP design based on this chip a while back, but it is time to see them on the market, powered by Rialto.

The Radeon X1950 PRO 256MB AGP is clocked at 600MHz core speed and 1400MHz GDDR3, 256 bit memory. It has dual DVI ports and a HDTV interface. The card uses an AGP 8X bus and has 36 Shader units. Just like its PCIe brother it uses Arctic cooling massive fan and as a matter of fact it is clocked the same.
--snip--
It will sell for around $249 and be available in retail and etail in four weeks.

Link directly to the card at Powercolor's site. (http://www.powercolor.com/global/main_product_series.asp?int=agp&chp=x1950)

[rapture]

Once you go past a certain amount of money an AGP graphics card just isnt worth it. What games are you hoping to play and how long before your next big upgrade?

I found it cheaper to upgrade to a mobo with PCI-E but still keeping all of my other parts. Also means I have much better performance and a graphics card thats going to last longer.

[muddocktor]

I guess it all depends on how modern your AGP equipped system is. If you have a late model AGP board such as my NF3 Ultra based Epox running with an Opty 170, it might be worth spending the $250 for the X1950Pro so that you could stretch another year or 2 or good gaming service out of it. After all, the socket it's using is EOL now, so there isn't any reason to buy a PCI-e equipped socket 939 board along with a PCI-e vid card. Especially if you aren't planning to go the SLI/Crossfire route anyways.

[djshowdown]

hey all

thanks alot for your help

i ended up getting this one

http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?sku=325504

i would tell you all how i'm getting on with it but its a xmas pressie from my parents

i'll let you know what its like once santa has been

thanks again:thumbup

[muddocktor]

That looks to be a good card, djshowdown. :) And I was wrong in a good way about the X1650 Pro series too as it's quite a bit better gpu than the X1600 series, with more pixel shaders.:headbange

[djshowdown]

not quite sure what that means but thanks:thumbup

i just needed something better than my radeon 7000

its pretty dire and i keep getting glitches like little dots occasionally when i play games and stuff

hopefully this card will perform better

[muddocktor]

It should be the difference between night and day. I have a couple of Radeon 7000 cards myself that I bought for folding rigs and while they are adequate for 2D stuff, they totally suck for gaming. I think you should be pretty happy with the new vid card.

[djshowdown]

I FINALLY got my hands on my new card today.

MUCH better than my old card (and i should think so that other one was crap!)

thanks alot for the advice guys

now i have one more component in the pile towards my second folding unit

gonna be my first PC build as well, wish me luck!

[Javis]

Hi there folks

I would really appreciate if someone could help me out on a related issue. I also have no PCI-Express slots on my motherboard. I am trying to buy a SATA drive now, so that if I upgrade my PC, I can just transfer the harddrive.

I downloaded PCI Sniffer, which gave me a report showing every bus device with the following: Cacheline: 0 * 32 bit.
There were no 64bits.
I believe v2.1, 5V Conventional PCI is 32bits, whereas v2.2, 3.3V Conventional PCI is 64bits.

Question: Am I correct in assuming that all my PCI slots are therefore v2.1
Question: Am I correct in assuming any PCI cards I buy must be v2.1 compliant
Question: Finally, can anyone please identify the slot in the attached picture, and what it would be used for. It doesn't look like any I'm familiar with.

Thanks
Javis

[Donut]

In your pic it looks like a PCI-X slot. Here's a Wiki link for pci-x.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI-X


Is this on a server board by chance? I'm not sure all the uses for these slots, mainly I've seen them used for scsi controllers. (my experience is very limited. I've got the slot on an old board, but right now it's a dust catcher.:) )

[Javis]

It's just a regular Dell Optiplex P4. Hard to say if it's a PCI-X or not. That would make my life a lot easier if it was. Although aren't those being phased out for the PCI-Express?

[RWB]

PCI Express is the next biggest thing... yes..

Didn't you post this question in another thread? I nearly went nuts because I thought I already posted here.

[djshowdown]

is thread jacking really necessary

start your own

[Javis]

Some people on these threads crack me up. "Thread jacking". You make it sound like something illegal.

Instead of being a wise guy, why don't you tell me how to post a new thread.

I really want to know. I looked everywhere on this site, and could not find a link.

And in response to RWB, sorry, yes I posted on two threads cos I figured I'd have more chance of getting my question answered, especially since I couldn't figure out how to do a new thread.

As yet, no-one has been able to identify for certain the odd looking connection I have.

Thanks

[djshowdown]

reason for the stop thread jacking approach is because this is the second thread you have done it too

you honestly telling me you cant see the 'new thread' button at the top of each forum

tell you what

after you read this post, click at the very top of the screen where it says 'GRAPHICS' then a page should come up
then click the box that says 'NEW THREAD' it looks like the box that says 'NEW REPLY', you know like the one that you clicked before you posted in this topic

i can understand that youre new to the forum, but rather then jack someones topic (which, whilst being perfectly legal is just bad manners) you could have checked the rules or asked someone 'how do i post a new topic'

[Donut]

When you view the threads, in the upper left corner of your screen there is a box marked "new thread"

If you give us the model numbers, specs of your machine it would make life a lot easier. Over the years I think Dell has put every slot into the Optiplex.


Oops, I type to slow.:buck: