I want 4 subs.

[airbornflght]

so badly, my parents said no more stereo stuff in the jeep, but... I already have everything, and I can sell my 15" (which I paid near $300 for) for $200 or a little more, only about 6 months old.

I could buy all 4 8's for that. since the ones I'm looking at are around $60 a piece.

The ones I'm looking at are Ascendant Audio Assassin 8's of RE's RE line 8's. the RE's seem to model a whole lot better, but the computers prediction isn't perfect. and not many people use 8's in a setup just because. The thing I like about them is that 4 8's have around 201 sq. in of surface area, one 15 has 176 sq in of area, and two twelves have 226 sq. in of area. so the 8's would give me more surface area than my current 15, which is important.

Which is important in getting loud, but im not all that concerned about getting loud, just fidelity, and since the F3 point is around 30-40 hz, they will go plenty low, and since they are 8's, they *should* extend up until around 140hz, maybe higher. Id like for them to get to 170, or 200, but I doubt it, that is what mid ranges are for. another plus is that they would be compact, in that I could build a shallow box that is tall and wide, but not very deep, so it wouldn't use much cargo area.

here we go again with my addiction to putting stereo systems together. I don't know why, but I have a very strong attraction to anything involving sound, I run the mixer at my church, I love DJ'ing (when I get the chance) and building both home stereo and car speaker enclosures, as well as putting systems together. I have done quite a few of my friends installs, as well as some people that someone told them to talk to me. What sucks is that all I have is a $400 headunit powering stock speakers. I need to find a stereoaholics anonymous meeting to go to.

[shwaip]

This is a statement.

[Black Hawk]

I'd go with 2 12's or even 3 10's. Even if 8" subs can hit 30-40hz, doesn't mean it's gonna hit hard. That's what 15's are for. I guess it all depends on what type of music you listen to.

I'm with you on the "stereoholics" part. Have over $1500 in car audio and I'm still trying to find out how to buy a $200 preamp. :range:

[DogDragon]

hey you may want to check out http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50251

[jared]

I go with any combination of 10s or 12s before I would use 8s.

Personally I would just get 10s or 12s and be done with it. I have one 12 in my explorer now and it does everything I ask and more. I know someone who had 8s, he helpt them for about a month and sold them because even the expensive 8s aren't as satisfying as you would think

[jhenry]

You guys had me confused for a minute...

From the index view I saw "I want 4 subs.". Last post: jared.

Someone got me thinking subway. Maybe I'm just hungry.


Anyways, I'm looking forward to seeing how your setup turns out. I recently got a new Alpine head and new Kenwood speakers. I need to get an amp and a sub or two to finish it off and want to see how it all turns out before I shell out any more cash.

[FoldingAddict]

Surface area doesn't have anything to do with fidelity, volume, SPL etc etc etc. There are a million other factors to look at when setting up a system than the total surface area of a cone.

I too would advise you not to use 8'' subs. I had a single 8'' in my S2000 (a Memphis M-Class [about $90 a piece]) and it was very nice for SQ, however it lacked any kind of punch, and didn't hit low at all.

In addition to that, it's always better to use a single speaker vs. more and more little ones. For instance, for SQ, it's always better to use 1 12'' or 1 10'' vs. 2 12s or 2 10s. It only takes a speaker to be ever so slightly out of phase for it to start canceling the other 3 out.

Also in a Jeep, where you don’t have any kind of barrier between you and the sub, I would always always use a larger sub that will take some power without distortion. 8”s are very prone to bottoming out (obviously, they’re tiny subs.)

So yeah, as far as I can tell there is no advantage to using 4, 8 inch subs vs. two 12’’s or 2 10’’s.

~FA

[jared]

Yeah I agree with what FoldingAddict says.

Too many people think the more the merrier. I know so many people in HS who would deck their ride out with 4 10s etc but it never sounds as good. Instead of getting more ****ty speakers I never understood why people don't just get one or 2 good ones. If I had to get a new system I would get ONE speaker, a W7 (or W6 if money was tight). I gaurentee it would be sound better than almost any combo of 4 10's you could put up against it.

[airbornflght]

your right, cone area doesn't doesnt tell you how loud a speaker has the capability to get, it is the total 2-way travel, as well as piston area (Sd) which will give you the displacement of the sub, but mechanical, electrical, and electro-mechanical parameters determine exactly how far the piston will travel at a given frequency.

*I'll be back in about 30 minutes*

[FoldingAddict]

That knowledge is good if you're a sound engineer, or speaker designer, but it has little to no use in system design. Sound systems are just like computers, you look at the stats, you look at what you want, and you put it together accordingly.

~FA

[GHoosdum]

I could go for a 12" tuna with provolone.

[Buddy J]

Jeep + sound system + college parking lot = target. Your just asking for someone to break into your car once you get to college.

[airbornflght]

ok, I just lost a big long post, and I'm kind of pissed about it. but, a lot of what FoldingAddict and jared have said is purely circumstancial; and largely said without evidence. here is a summary of my post that I spend about 20 minutes on:


Correcting the phase is an easy thing to do, with many possible ways of doing it
Just because a sub is an 8, does not mean that it will bottom out:hrm:
There are also bottomless designs where only the suspension limits travel
A linear array of 8's has the potential to get louder than 2 larger subs
JBL subs are not the holy grail of all subs...:hrm:
while they do sounds decent, I dont care for them
you forget one advantage to using smaller subs. which is space constraints.
Surface area does have something to do with volume and consequently SPL, while fidelity lies in the engineering of the driver and moreso the design of the enclosure.
Oversized of incorrectly tuned boxes are usually responsible for crapy sounding speakers. oversizing a box will make the driver more prone to bottoming out, while tuning too high in a ported box tuning too high will make the bandwidth of the driver short, as in response will drop off acutely after a certain frequency range, which is what is usually done in competition cars, because while tuning high kills sq, it also gives you more spl.


I seem to be getting the notion from some people that you believe that 8's are not any good because of their sub-par size. I have heard a wall of 6x9's get to 176 db.

A linear array of 8's will be compact, have good SQ, and get fairly loud, which I am not worried about, and I dont know about you all, but I dont need punch down past about 35 hz, because most songs including rap, only take bass down to between 40-85 hz, which is normally quad and modulations.

[Clutch]

Teenager + subs in car + loud music = target for a Cop.


Trust me man, don't go all out with a huge setup. I have been there and done that. As long as you aren't stupid and blast your music through public places to annoy everyone you will be good.

I had two 10's in my first car, and it sounded really good. I also made sure that my trunk wouldn't rattle like two rabbits humping inside a bag either.

[RADA]

Teenager + subs in car + loud music =


SEVERE EAR DAMAGE AND PROFOUND HEARING LOSS...


Not trying to rain on your parade, but I speak from the "been there, can't hear that" side of the street. I always had the tunes bumping in my car as a teenager and young adult.. Now I'm stuck with permanent hearing loss in my left ear, almost to the point of it qualifing as a diability...


Save yourself some grief, listen to your folks...


...I'll get down off my soapbox now....;D

[Buddy J]

Oh man, don't even get me started on OU cops. Andy, if you really are gonna go to OU next year, don't do it. Car break-ins around campus happen all the time as kids look for quick cash and the cops don't do anything about it. And it doesn't just happen around the school. Garg and my old roommate got hit twice in one week at Hastings there.

Norman cops love to pull over students. They seem to come from nowhere and will bust you for going just the slightest bit over the 25 mph speed limit. And they're really good about getting the courts to believe that even though they didn't clock you with a radar, you clearly were speeding. I've got the tickets to prove it.

The town also has very strict noise ordinances that were put in place while I was attending college. They can ticket you if your car can be heard from about 20 ft. away. Thumping booty bass is a surefire way to get a nasty fine. These laws go so far as to limit bands playing at concert venues, it's that bad.

If you wanna put speakers in, keep em hidden or looking stock and keep your volume knob low.

[airbornflght]

Oh man, don't even get me started on OU cops. Andy, if you really are gonna go to OU next year, don't do it. Car break-ins around campus happen all the time as kids look for quick cash and the cops don't do anything about it. And it doesn't just happen around the school. Garg and my old roommate got hit twice in one week at Hastings there.

Norman cops love to pull over students. They seem to come from nowhere and will bust you for going just the slightest bit over the 25 mph speed limit. And they're really good about getting the courts to believe that even though they didn't clock you with a radar, you clearly were speeding. I've got the tickets to prove it.

The town also has very strict noise ordinances that were put in place while I was attending college. They can ticket you if your car can be heard from about 20 ft. away. Thumping booty bass is a surefire way to get a nasty fine. These laws go so far as to limit bands playing at concert venues, it's that bad.

If you wanna put speakers in, keep em hidden or looking stock and keep your volume knob low.

norman is that bad? how in the world do they get away with all the raging parties???

Maybe I'll just put the audio hobby on the back burner until I get out of college. I usually kept it low unless I was on the highway, which isn't a bad way of thinking in my book, because who is gonna complain on the highway? beside that, in town, if you have it loud, then you might not be able to here a siren of an ambulance or firetruck is behind you.

and as far as the speeding goes, that means that I will be doing 20, because I am one point away from loosing my licesnse:range:... but lets not get started on what I think about traffic cops.

as far as limiting concerts, that is just mean...

[Buddy J]

Wild parties get shut down quick. The party rules are as follows:
1. Park down the street or at a parking lot and walk to the party location.
2. At house parties, the only people who are outside are those who are smoking, and they can only do it in the back yard.
3. The music better be kept at a decent level because if the cops can hear it from the street or if your neighbors complain, you're hosed.
4. When the cops come to the door, everyone gets really quiet, the music gets turned down/off, and you better put your cup down if you don't have ID showing that you're legal.

Now you know. And knowing is half the battle!

[bikerboy]

SEVERE EAR DAMAGE AND PROFOUND HEARING LOSS...

what? can you speak up please? i totally agree with RADA on this. im only 17 but i can tell that myhearing is going away rapidly and i've only had my subs for so long. this is why i am selling them. (http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50251)

[airbornflght]

Wild parties get shut down quick. The party rules are as follows:
1. Park down the street or at a parking lot and walk to the party location.
2. At house parties, the only people who are outside are those who are smoking, and they can only do it in the back yard.
3. The music better be kept at a decent level because if the cops can hear it from the street or if your neighbors complain, you're hosed.
4. When the cops come to the door, everyone gets really quiet, the music gets turned down/off, and you better put your cup down if you don't have ID showing that you're legal.

Now you know. And knowing is half the battle!


noted.

[jared]

JBL subs are not the holy grail of all subs....

JBL subs are lucky to even be what I would consider what i consider mid-grade let alone the holy grail of subs.... but JL Audio on the other hand is quality at its finest.

[airbornflght]

JBL subs are lucky to even be what I would consider what i consider mid-grade let alone the holy grail of subs.... but JL Audio on the other hand is quality at its finest.


oops, I get them two mixed up sometimes, likewise, I still believe that there are much better to be had than JL Audio. I would call JBL entry level, and JL Audio mid-grade; and kicker/memphis/Rockford, those are just toys.

[Black Hawk]

and kicker/memphis/Rockford, those are just toys.
Not knowing if the brands you posted are ascending in quality, is that a good or bad thing?

[airbornflght]

Not knowing if the brands you posted are ascending in quality, is that a good or bad thing?

no, they are perfectly fine subs for a first system, they will do fine for the average joe, but they arent the speakers that they used to be, rockford got ate up, memphis is.... and I think kicker is still the same company, but they have gone to crap in my opinion, I personally like smaller companies as they usually have better subs.

To tell the truth, Resonant Engineering, which was and is awesome for SPL, was bought by US Amps.

But a lot of the old companies got ate up by larger ones, yet retained their names. PPI, Orion, and Directed are all the same parent company now, Directed Electronics.

As for the ascending order, no, I just listed them randomly without prejudice. They will all sound good to a casual listener or first time system owner, but compared to what can be attained, they are rubbish. I'd probably get memphis before the other two, but then again, I'd rather own about 10 other brands than memphis. and dont be tricked if you are in the market, MA is no the same thing as Memphis Audio.

[airbornflght]

if had some $$$ to blow, I would have Adire Tumults in my jeep, one 15, and one 10. which would cover just about the whole bass spectrum, but at ~$500 a piece... Those are what a sub should aspire to be. They can handle 1000 watts on the voice coil, which is a lot, because it uses XBL^2, which was developed by adire, it is a different motor topology that is highly efficient and powerful, as well as offering a flat BL curve. another good thing is that it doesn't take much power to get it going, so if an XBL based sub can take 1KW, then you know it is meant to rock.

[Nomad]

With salami and provolone.

[airbornflght]

I personally like turkey ham, pepper jack, honey-mustard, nuked to perfection on herb and cheese bread.

[jared]

I have an Adire Audio sub, a 2nd generation Brahma. It definitely hits hard but if I am showing it off usually the lead slap is noticable.

I would say JL can be mid entry, but they have some pro level subs. I have been to about 3 "sound off" competitions in Houston and JL usually has the most medals with its W6 and W7 line of subs.

imho the W7 is probably one of the best subs ever made. You can put it up against any other single sub (12 or 15) and it will out perform it. I have seen it time after time again. Granted you have to have your setup perfect, box tuned, etc etc. Plus it is one of the few subs that doesn't exhibit lead slap.

[airbornflght]

I have an Adire Audio sub, a 2nd generation Brahma. It definitely hits hard but if I am showing it off usually the lead slap is noticable.

I would say JL can be mid entry, but they have some pro level subs. I have been to about 3 "sound off" competitions in Houston and JL usually has the most medals with its W6 and W7 line of subs.

imho the W7 is probably one of the best subs ever made. You can put it up against any other single sub (12 or 15) and it will out perform it. I have seen it time after time again. Granted you have to have your setup perfect, box tuned, etc etc. Plus it is one of the few subs that doesn't exhibit lead slap.


yeh, but lead slap can be fixed with some careful positioning of cotton iirc, I forget, but I saw a short tut on how a guy fixed the lead slap on his AA Atlas I believe it was.

and are the W7s tinsel leads attached to the cone, or woven into the spider, because if they are woven into the spider, it is almost impossible to have lead slap. Though some people say that is a bad thing because since the tinsel leads are 'abrasive' and the spider is a soft fabric material. Tey could saw themselves out of the sider over many years of use, though I have never seen it happen.

[Nightwolf]

oops, I get them two mixed up sometimes, likewise, I still believe that there are much better to be had than JL Audio. I would call JBL entry level, and JL Audio mid-grade; and kicker/memphis/Rockford, those are just toys.
I can't believe you put memphis audio in the same category as rockford and kicker...

[airbornflght]

why? they arent that great imo, only ever so slightly better.

[Nightwolf]

why? they arent that great imo, only ever so slightly better.
IMO- your opinion is wrong, you should hear my friend Josh's Memphis setup in his camaro, he won't touch anything else..