View Full Version : legality of liability
airbornflght
26 Oct 2006, 11:33pm
Ok, here is my question, is it legal for a public school to force you to be liable for a piece of equipment (say a digital camera) in order for you to use it?
We just bought a new camera in yearbook, and Shipley is a little over-protective of it imo. This is what she wrote out:
Date: _________
My Son/Daugher __________________ has permission to check out the EHS Yearbook digital camera, I understand that this is an expensive piece of equipment and that if the camera is lost or damaged while checked out to my child, I am responsible for repairs or replacement. The value of the camera is approximately 1100.00.
_____________________________
parent signature
_____________________________
student signature
can she do that legally, being that it was purchased with school funds? I'm really clueless about the matter, it is just that it set off bells in and whistles in my head... Would anyone knowledgeable on the matter care to elaborate and discuss exactly what the school can and cant do?
Nightwolf
26 Oct 2006, 11:38pm
Yes, all four of our high schools use Palms, TX's to be exact. Thats four schools with each school ranging from 1300 - 1600 students and every single student has a palm. I was the first one to destroy mine (literally)...the dog chewed it up the first night I got it because it has a leather cover with it. Every student is liable for it and every student has to accept the palm pilot.
So yea, if you want to use it sign the papers and accept liability..or don't use the camera.
DogDragon
27 Oct 2006, 12:18am
really there's no big deal,Yeah the wording could be better.
But it's also keep track of who has it so I wouldn't worry about it.
Unless you have habit of losing things, If you keep an eye on it you're not out anything and you still get to use it.
There better things to put effort in, Don't let a little slip arc you.
profdlp
27 Oct 2006, 1:13am
How would you like it to be phrased? Maybe like this?
My Son/Daughter __________________ has permission to check out the EHS Yearbook digital camera, I understand that this is an expensive piece of equipment and that if the camera is lost or damaged while checked out to my child, the taxpayers of my school district will foot the bill for a replacement. The value of the camera is approximately 1100.00, but the poor saps we soak through taxes every year can damn well pony up again if my kid is a careless doofus. If for some reason they decide not to buy us another one, it's just hard cheese for every other kid in the school who never got a chance to use it because my kid didn't give a flip about other people's property.
I think High School is a fine place to continue learning personal responsibility, a process which hopefully began at least a dozen years earlier. Don't you? ;)
Nightwolf
27 Oct 2006, 1:21am
I don't really understand what you're trying to prove here.
I don't really understand what you're trying to prove here.
Bingo. Suck it up, kid, you're liable for the damn camera.
Yeah I would tend to agree, our tax dollars goes towards a lot of stupid stuff as it is... I don't want it to go to replace a camera some chump broke because he can't handle equipment properly.
Yes, all four of our high schools use Palms, TX's to be exact. Thats four schools with each school ranging from 1300 - 1600 students and every single student has a palm. I was the first one to destroy mine (literally)...the dog chewed it up the first night I got it because it has a leather cover with it. Every student is liable for it and every student has to accept the palm pilot.
So yea, if you want to use it sign the papers and accept liability..or don't use the camera.
well my question is, did the teacher or orginization give out the equivalant of an EULA for somthing like this, or did they hand them out like #2 pencils without telling the parents or students about the cost of loosing or destroying?
i mean the school has to be carefull about how it defines the uses of items like this, like my school had pay-to-own type stuff like ti83 calculators that the school gave out and you like rent till you bought it. or you could just use the schools for free.
and i can totally agree with what the teacher is doing, at my work its called CYA, Cover Your Ass, and i do that by leaving a horendously large paper trail and backups
MrBill
27 Oct 2006, 3:03am
Worth repeating.... :)
How would you like it to be phrased? Maybe like this?
My Son/Daughter __________________ has permission to check out the EHS Yearbook digital camera, I understand that this is an expensive piece of equipment and that if the camera is lost or damaged while checked out to my child, the taxpayers of my school district will foot the bill for a replacement. The value of the camera is approximately 1100.00, but the poor saps we soak through taxes every year can damn well pony up again if my kid is a careless doofus. If for some reason they decide not to buy us another one, it's just hard cheese for every other kid in the school who never got a chance to use it because my kid didn't give a flip about other people's property.
I think High School is a fine place to continue learning personal responsibility, a process which hopefully began at least a dozen years earlier. Don't you? ;)
airbornflght
27 Oct 2006, 3:31am
no, I dont think that I should have no liability, and actually, no you, the taxpayer had no hand in this purchase what-so-ever. It was totally paid with ad-revenue that we collect our selves. We actually get no external funding. All of our revenue is from book sales and baby/commercial ad sales.
the only reason that it was purchased with 'school funds' was that because all of the money we make automatically becomes the schools money. Probably for good reason, such as avoiding embezzlement.
I was just simply inquiring into the technicalities of exactly what the school can and can't hold you liable for. I can see being liable for loss, damage etc. etc. but theft?
On the other hand, I have no intentions of loosing, breaking, or otherwise harming this camera. I'm actually the one that pushed her to buy it. Maybe I'm too hypothetical, but say you are taking pictures at a basketball game, some chump comes up and snaps the flash off, should you be held liable for their actions? According to this you would be and that bothers me.
You're responsible for the camera, and all that happens. Regardless of whatever ridiculously hypothetical situations you can think of.
airbornflght
27 Oct 2006, 4:30am
I was aware of that from the very beginning as that is how the contract is read. which was not the question, the question was can they do that, and I suppose they very well can.
I was aware of that from the very beginning as that is how the contract is read. which was not the question, the question was can they do that, and I suppose they very well can.
Then shortly, yes they can. Stop fighting authority for the sake of nothing.
profdlp
27 Oct 2006, 3:02pm
Airborn, I would hope that the people in charge of this have enough sense to differentiate between carelessness and an event like "some chump comes up and snaps the flash off". If I were in charge and I felt that the student had done everything they could reasonably be expected to do to care for the camera, I'd be inclined to cut them some slack if something bad happened to it. You'll have to judge how reasonable they are.
You might also talk to to your parents about what their homeowners insurance covers. You might be covered to some extent, at least in some situations.
By the way, I wasn't really trying to be a smart-ass (I don't have to try - it comes natural to me :vimp: ) in my previous post. When you're trying to make sense of something, a lot of times it helps to turn it around to the exact opposite and look at it from that perspective. My alteration of the original permission slip was intended to look ridiculous, thereby pointing out that the original was probably fairly reasonable. :)
...Stop fighting authority for the sake of nothing.
When I fight authority, authority always wins. :(
I've been doin' it since I was a young kid and I come out grinnin'. :D
MrBill
27 Oct 2006, 3:27pm
On the other hand, I have no intentions of loosing, breaking, or otherwise harming this camera. I'm actually the one that pushed her to buy it. Maybe I'm too hypothetical, but say you are taking pictures at a basketball game, some chump comes up and snaps the flash off, should you be held liable for their actions? According to this you would be and that bothers me.If you borrowed a camera from a friend and this hypothetical situation happened, would you give the broken camera back to your friend and say "Sorry, some chump came up and snapped the flash off." or would you be responsible and get the camera fixed at your expense?
I don't think it matters who the [inset object here] belongs to. If you borrow it, you're responsible for it. It's that simple. :)
Buddy J
27 Oct 2006, 4:19pm
A piece of equipment like that should be insured by the school/yearbook. Like school TVs and computers, it needs to be covered in case of theft or fire or whatever.
If you think about it, students are required to be responsible for damages to text books and library books. It's not an uncommon practice.
LawnMM
27 Oct 2006, 5:13pm
Stop fighting authority for the sake of nothing.
You need to come out on a ride along and spread your message for me.
airbornflght
27 Oct 2006, 6:50pm
The camera is insured against theft, I believe, but I think it may only be while it is in the schools possesion, I'm not sure exactly how that works out.
Thrax
27 Oct 2006, 10:03pm
You need to come out on a ride along and spread your message for me.
PIG, I DON'T ANSWER TO NO PIG. WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU'RE JUST PULLING ME OVER TO TELL ME MY TAIL LIGHT IS OUT. WHAT PIG. WHAT DO YOU WANT.
Oh, wait.. I like you guys.
LawnMM
27 Oct 2006, 10:07pm
PIG, I DON'T ANSWER TO NO PIG. WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU'RE JUST PULLING ME OVER TO TELL ME MY TAIL LIGHT IS OUT. WHAT PIG. WHAT DO YOU WANT.
I want the drugs in the car. I've had em hand it over too =)
profdlp
28 Oct 2006, 12:45am
I want the drugs in the car. I've had em hand it over too =)
Somehow, that does not surprise me. Criminals are not usually the brightest bulbs on the tree. :mullet:
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