If it isn’t broken…don’t fix it?

[SM-Bot]

<p>The controversy continues over ATI Catalyst 3.8 drivers allegedly causing hardware issues. ATI has stated <em>“we have spent a great deal of time trying to reproduce this problem and analyzing our driver code. There is nothing in our driver code that has changed since CAT 3.7 to CAT 3.8 that could possibly cause this behaviour. We believe that our drivers are not causing these alleged problems.“</em></p>
<p>Claims are being made that the Catalyst 3.8 drivers could cause damage to computer hardware; specifically monitors. ATI has denied this as impossible with their driver set. </p>
<p>In some forums, including tech site Short-Media, many disagree but where is the verifiable proof? ATI have extended an invitation to any customers who feel they have been affected by the alleged Catalyst 3.8 issues to contact ATI technical support via email or phone. ATI says they have yet to speak with anyone related to this issue with substantiated evidence. ATI has also encountered a lack of willingness for those to come forward from particular forums in which claims were made. </p>
<p>Short-Media has extended the same assistance offering to be a conduit for information from site members to ATI technical support. Response has been equally as disappointing yet the forum discussion threads grow longer. The originator of the discussions at Short-Media forums has been contacted by ATI who have yet to see meaningful proof supporting the alleged issues. </p>
<p>Short-Media forums remain to be the popular place for debate over the validity of claims and the website owners, who promote free discussion in the forums, caution everyone against succumbing to the “Chicken Little” syndrome. </p>
<p><em>“Our purpose here is to support our member's and site visitor's quest for answers. To that end we have been cooperating with ATI to connect their technical people with those who claim the drivers may have caused harm to their systems.” </em>said a Short-Media website owner<em>. “ATI are even loaning us a 9800 series display card so that we may investigate these alleged issues for ourselves.”</em></p>
<p>Tech sites can be accused of creating or participating in controversial subjects in the hopes of gaining a more prominent position on the Internet. Short-Media is the latest to be tried before their peers on this. </p>
<p><em>“It’s just not true and, in fact, it's an insult to be accused of participating in this for ratings. We promote a safe forum where members are encouraged to discuss PC hardware and software. Some members honestly believe there are grounds for further investigation and we think they have a right to satisfactory answers, especially given all the attention. Short-Media reports on information brought to the site. We are reporting developments. We are not saying that any ATI product or software is to blame as there is insufficient evidence at this time for a meaningful conclusion.”</em></p>
<p>Short-Media continues to look into this matter and soon to be released tests may show a lot…of nothing…which will bring a sigh of relief to many an ATI 9800 series product owner.</p>
<p>The ATI official response press release to alleged monitor failure issue is <a href="http://www.short-media.com/news.php?extend.158" target="_blank">here</a> and Short-Media Catalyst 3.8 forum discussion is <a href="http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4820" target="_blank">here</a>.</p>

[Camman]

As stated before, my claims about the Catalyst 3.8 Drivers have been sent in great detail to ATi, I shall await their response tomorrow and keep you all updated.

[pseudonym]

I don't know what the deal is here. The only reason I switched back was because everyone else freaked, and I figured I might as well be safe. I ran the 3.8s on my flashed 9800 since the 3.8s were out and never developed any problems. That card is also in a Shuttle, and my case temps are higher than a normal PC (36 C!!). I'm tempted to switch back over and see if I can get it to do anything. Maybe if I'm lucky it'll fry that darn Phillps monitor that doesn't have an auto resize.........

[EQuito]

The originator of the discussions at Short-Media forums has been contacted by ATI who have yet to see meaningful proof supporting the alleged issues.

Breaking news!
Anonymous sources confirm sightings of the "originator" crossing the border into Mexico... ;D

[TheSmJ]

I think this "monitor killing" issue is nothing more than a rumor. Only monitors made during/before '95 would attempt to display an image at a refresh rate it could not display.



Again, this is bull****.

[Geeky1]

TheSmJ, I'm inclined to agree with what you, Doc Overclock, ATi, and others have said- that this is BS. However, what else could explain the seeming sudden rash of monitor deaths?

[Enverex]

As I said in the original thread (heh, some of the above sounds familiar) it couldn't be the refresh rates, it has to be something else, and thats what we need to find out....

NS

[tarot]

Hi i,m new here but i wanted to pipe up about this.
I saw this thread and just giggled ...reminded me of the ol melt your hard drive virus.
but then i decided to test the theory.
now i have aHIS 9600pro with 128 meg of 3.3ns memory so basically 300/600 is as far is i could stretch but the core had a fair bit in her...namely 460 without any issues up to 490, after that she would go nuts :)
now i install a iceberq cooler and ramsinks, tested the temps and down they went with a laser thermal pointer and the old finger method.

now i then installed the 3.8 cats
now the best i could go is 460 without lockups

also i found at that i was getting staggering in games and basically unstable.

went back to the 3.7 drivers

back up to 460 stable 490 so so

same cooler same environment.

the monitor issue i never noticed so cant comment.

now people who are running stock wouldnt see this issue unless there card was released close to the limits (in my opinion)

so there you have it.

i,ll be keeping a beady eye on this thread :)

[startledpancake]

I have offered to send a video of the refresh rate switching in action, but havnt had a response. ATI do have control over refresh rates, they force rates above the XP 60 hz default in direct3d.

[Gobbles]

if sent into a resolition or refresh rate out of their range will tell you so with a message that says that the signal is out of range unless as previously mentioned its a really really old monitor circa 1995 or older. As for the drivers causing overheating... I think that someone is full of S**t... I like the Cat3.8, granted my card is an 8500, they fixed some artifacting and tearing issues in games that 3.7's had.

[Camman]

NightShade737 had this to say
As I said in the original thread (heh, some of the above sounds familiar) it couldn't be the refresh rates, it has to be something else, and thats what we need to find out....

NS

I have to agree with NS and Geeky also though. It seems that ATi , as well as several others who would be 'in the know' on this kind of issue have refuted the point of the refresh rate causing this monitor failure. But, the sheer number of failures related to and immediately following the upgrade of the Catalyst 3.8 drivers, suggest that something in this upgrade is causing the monitor deaths. Like NS said, it's that something we need to find out.

[Grossvart]

Nvidia release the 5700 ultra and 5950....... sudden unsubstantiated rumours of monitor death and graphic card overheating from Ati drivers.......... It smacks of Nvidia fanboy desperation stemming from image quality and frame rate envy..... GROW UP!

[Geeky1]

Grossvart, oh, I don't think nVidia is err, nVolved ( :D) in this... I mean, yeah, the GeForce FX is the single biggest flop in the history of the graphics card industry, if not the history of the entire computing history, but that's besides the point.

I really doubt that nVidia is behind this...

[SimGuy]

The circumstances surrounding what occurred to my display hardware in front of my eyes have been submitted in detail to 3 different branches of ATI Canada's organization. I have been in very close contact with ATI's PR, Support and Software divisions over the last 24 hours regarding these suspected overheating and monitor refresh rate issues.

To think this was brought up because of a certain rival video card company is ludicrous at best.

[Grossvart]

I did'nt say Nvidia, I said Nvidia fanboys.... if you cant read then you probably spilt your slurpee on the monitor.... as for your submission Ati have'nt had a single complaint yet so its hard to take you seriously

[Grossvart]

I think the most damning evidence so far that this is a hoax comes from the respected hardware review sites themselves, after initially jumping on the story they very quickly either deleted the story or called it a hoax outright after investigation.... nuff said!

[Geeky1]

nVidia... nVidia fanboys... same difference. I doubt the "fanboys" did it either.

I think the most damning evidence so far that this is a hoax comes from the respected hardware review sites themselves, after initially jumping on the story they very quickly either deleted the story or called it a hoax outright after investigation.... nuff said!

Which sites?

[Grossvart]

I think theres a pretty big difference between the developers of a graphics chipset and the 12 year old playing quake 3 with it

[Geeky1]

I was being sarcastic. But I don't think that nVidia's fanboys had anything to do with this either. I'm not big on conspiracy theories. Believing that nVidia or their fanboys were behind this is like believing that the CIA killed Kennedy, that we never landed on the moon, and that the FBI is watching your every move. It's absurd. Admittedly, the belief that nVidia's fanboys had something to do with this is less absurd than the belief that we never landed on the moon, but it's still rediculous. Possible, but unlikely.

[primesuspect]

Grossvart, this whole discussion has remained quite civil and mature despite the volatile nature of the discussion at hand. Please don't ruin it by bringing your childish "spilt your slurpee on the monitor" comments to our forums.

And for your information, ATI has had several complaints about this issue. Many people from this forum have submitted complaints to both the support form, and directly to ATI staff. This has been independently verified by short-media management. So your comment is just plain wrong.

Also, please read the latest information (http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=55540#post55540) before posting.


Thank you.

[Grossvart]

oh ok, oswald killed kennedy (yeah right) and even though Ati have not received a single complaint and no hardware site is taking this story seriously...... the drivers are blowing up monitors..... I dont think we have to look too far for the absurd smoking gun here

[primesuspect]

Grossvart had this to say
Ati have not received a single complaint and no hardware site is taking this story seriously......

as I just stated, your statement here is just plain wrong. Do you work for ATI to authoritatively answer this question? If not, please stop speculating on things you clearly know nothing about :rolleyes:

[Grossvart]

spilt slurpee.... its called humour, dont take life so seriously...... you know why christians dont have sex standing up dontcha?..... it might lead to dancing!

[Geeky1]

Grossvart, just out of curiosity, what video card(s) do you have in your computer(s)?

[Grossvart]

show me some proof then? Ati could'nt replicate the alleged problem, they have'nt had a single complaint, they even went to their oem's and got a blank look....... i think this forum has compromised itself and to many outsiders it looks like a blatant play for publicity and web hits

[primesuspect]

I'm not gonna bother reposting "proof" that's already been posted in the thread I already referenced.. Read the whole thing for yourself.

[Geeky1]

That doesn't answer the question. And while you are entitled to your opinion, you are incorrect. However, I don't really feel like arguing about it with you, since you've obviously already made your mind up, and I can't be bothered to put any effort into trying to change it.

Tell me something, though. If this site is so awful, and we'd stoop to inventing or publicizing something like this just for publicity, why did you go to the trouble of registering and posting?

[Grossvart]

I have a Palit Daytona Ti4200 in one computer and a his excalibur 9700 pro in another, I'm not biased, I still think the ti4200 is the best price/performance card ever..... but this whole thing is ridiculous, I'm using the 3.8 cats and I'm risking a 19'' sony trinitron..... hmmm has'nt exploded yet, funny that

[Grossvart]

well once again you have'nt really read what i said, I made the point that you open yourself up to the appearance of compromise to outsiders, you really should take the time to read my posts carefully, "the lips of wisdom are sealed except to the ears of understanding"

[Grossvart]

the "proof" is in the pudding and you are going to bed with no dessert because you did'nt eat your peas

[Geeky1]

Just wanted to make sure you didn't have all ATi-based cards (which I do) and therefore might be expected to take a position that this is rediculous.

Also, I read your posts... your point is what? I see an exceptionally immature person, who has jumped to a conclusion (apparently) without reading the facts, and has decided to attempt to antagonize the membership of this site into "flaming" him or her.

[Grossvart]

Well we all create our own reality dont we? perception is a strange thing, you took exception to the perception (hey that rhymes) that this whole thing was contrived for web hits, I'm sure you now realise perception is not reality, this is graphically illustrated by the inherent duality of a wave/particle quantum mechanical system, i have so to speak collapsed my own wave function and you have yours.... cheers!

[SimGuy]

"What we see depends mainly on what we look for."

[Grossvart]

oh and ps: not a single reference to monitors blowing up at the Ati radeon forums, thousands of posts but not one single imploding monitor, spooky! http://pub40.ezboard.com/f3dxtremefrm15

[Geeky1]

Grossvart, you are mistaken. Only subjective people create their own reality. I am just about the least subjective person you will ever talk to, online or in person. I approached this issue of the catalysts supposedly killing monitors with no opinion whatsoever. And, as of right now, I still have no opinion. There isn't enough information to come to a definate conclusion one way or the other. If you'll go back and read my posts in this thread, you'll find that I said that while I find it very difficult to believe that ATi's drivers are killing monitors, there is no other readily apparent explanation for it. So, since the only obvious conclusion at the moment is rather absurd, I'm witholding judgement pending further investigation.

Also, don't drag quantum mechanics into this. I'm very familiar with the subject, and trying to lord your knowledge over me (because evidently you feel that you know more about the subject than I do) is not going to work.

[Grossvart]

well thank goodness for that! for a moment there i thought schrodingers cat had your tongue

[Grossvart]

if he really understands quantum mechanics folks, he'll be rolling on the floor at that one

[Grossvart]

He does seem a little quiet about all those people on the Ati radeon forums though.... the numbers have spoken!!!

[Geeky1]

Quiet? Me? Never! :D

I didn't mention the people on the ATi forums because I haven't looked at it yet, and I don't see how it matters. There are a lot of people complaining about problems that appear to be driver-related in some way. There are also a lot of people that are running the same drivers that have not had problems. So, at this point, the numbers of people having problems vs. not having problems is immaterial. If ATi can't find anything wrong with their drivers, it'll have to be attributed to something else. But at this point, there's not enough info to base a judgement on.

[Grossvart]

In fact try finding the exploding monitor drivers mentioned anywhere but here (other than stories citing or linking to here) once this blatant stupidity has been exposed this site will have no credibility whatsoever

[Geeky1]

Oh, I don't think so. It took Tom's Hardware years of hard work to get to where they are now. One post in a forum is not sufficient to destroy a site's credibility.

[Enverex]

Go to the thread PrimeSuspect pointed you too and stop being such an asshat.

There you will find your "proof" and also further responces from ATi.

NS

[Grossvart]

tomshardware..... i thought we were talking about credible sites

[Shorty]

Grossvart..

As you seem to insist on flaming and institating strong reactions from community members, perhaps YOU would do US the courtesy of..

1) Proving us completely wrong on this potential driver issue with technical fact rather than just what YOUR opinion is.

2) Reduce the need to insult and irritate other members and instead contribute towards the conversation. Perhaps, even submit your complete findings on this subject. You obviously have such strong technical knowledge and information. Please do share it, we are listening with open ears.

3) Show us internal ATI documents, records, database logs and WWW records to prove completely that ATI haven't received a single complaint. You obviously have access or where else would you be getting your information?

If you can't do that without flaming, insulting, insinuating and generally attempting to get a rise out of a few people here.. perhaps Short-Media isn't the place for you :thumbsup:

Oh and don't attempt to be a spamwhore. Multiple posting makes you look like a 12 year old who just discovered the internet yesterday :D

[Grossvart]

you mean insults like "12 year old who just discovered the internet yesterday"?....... yeah sure, i'll get right on that.... but perhaps i'll try to do it without being a hypocrite in the same breath

[Geeky1]

http://www.overclockers.com/articles853/index.asp

You should read that, Grossvart. It's a good article on this subject.

[Grossvart]

It's a ridiculous article because until someone actually has a broken monitor and complains to Ati about it there are no people getting sick from coffee (his analogy) He did'nt cite a single verifiable case..... and nobody else has either..... all we have is a few likely nvidia lads stirring the pot..... yet none of them have actually contacted Ati about this terrible problem they have..... until then it remains heresay, rumour & myth

[Grossvart]

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I’m sure you’ve heard the rumor about ATi’s Catalyst 3.8 drivers allegedly destroying monitors due to sending incorrect refresh or scan line information. Although a monitor can indeed be damaged by feeding it with a higher refresh rate or horizontal scan line frequency than it is capable of handling, I doubt ATi’s drivers do any of these things. Why? Simply because I’ve seen numerous reports of people in forums around the web discussing it, but just one or two that really have a damaged monitor to back their claims up. If you take into account the vast number of people that have an ATi Radeon 9700 or 9800, pro or non pro, video card you’d think that if this was really an issue, we’d see many people posting about their monitor failing. And no, the excuse that they can’t post messages on forums because their monitor stopped working doesn’t really apply here. So what we have here, at least it seems that way, is a good example of internet mass hysteria, all caused by a few individuals that probably lost their monitors due to old age, wear and tear, or simply forcing it to run at resolutions or refresh rates they didn't support." THAT IS HOW IT IS VIEWED IN THE REAL WORLD.

[Enverex]

Grossvart had this to say
It's a ridiculous article because until someone actually has a broken monitor and complains to Ati about it there are no people getting sick from coffee (his analogy) He did'nt cite a single verifiable case..... and nobody else has either..... all we have is a few likely nvidia lads stirring the pot..... yet none of them have actually contacted Ati about this terrible problem they have..... until then it remains heresay, rumour &amp; myth

We have trusted users here that have had the problem occur to them on hardware that isn't used and wasn't on the brink of failing. That is proof.

You don't believe them? Fine, we arn't asking you too. But we know each other here and this isn't a stunt that the long term users here would try and pull.

NS

[Shorty]

Grossvart had this to say
you mean insults like &quot;12 year old who just discovered the internet yesterday&quot;?....... yeah sure, i'll get right on that.... but perhaps i'll try to do it without being a hypocrite in the same breath

Oh no! Please don't say I touched a nerve and hurt your feelings :eek:

;)

[Grossvart]

Well then why are'nt they on record? why have'nt they complained to Ati? why has'nt anyone else? you dont have a leg to stand on till then

[Shorty]

Grossvart had this to say
Well then why are'nt they on record? why have'nt they complained to Ati? why has'nt anyone else? you dont have a leg to stand on till then

They have been submitted. Please read the thread :D

[Lincoln]

Well... that was interesting. :p

[Jammin1911]

This might be an uncalled for post but I'd just like to say thank you to Grossvart for turning this thread into what it is now. I'm laughing while typing right now, and i've been snickering for the past 5 minutes while I read the entire thing. Between that and your nick - this has been a pretty hilarious day!

[Geeky1]

Nice sig & avatar there, Grossvart. ;D You hit the nail right on the head (for once).

[Necropolis]

And let this be a warning to all people who piss Shorty off, you too could have a stylish avatar, sig and description just like Grossvart's :thumbsup: ;D;D;D

[Geeky1]

Also, just saw this in my sig:
He also needs basic assistance with formatting lines of text in his signature

All I can say is: ROFLMFAO. ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Jammin1911]

hahahahah