Whos' getting Vista this week?

[TheSmJ]

As the subject says: Who here has any plans to buy Vista sometime this week?

I'm kind of on the fence at this point. I know my system will work very well with Vista and I'll need to buy it at some point within the year weather I want to or not, and the price of Vista will not change thought the lifetime of the product (another 5 years?), but $120+ is a lot to drop on an OS that will only give you a new UI and no solid improvement in speed for another few weeks.

On the other hand, if you buy it this week many retailers are packaging it with quite a few goodies. Circuit City is including an all in one printer, 512 MB RAM and Wireless N routers with the purchase of any version of Vista above Home Premium, and while this combo won't last longer than a week at most, Vista Home Premium's $160 cost will remain unchanged for quite a few years.

[tmh88]

If someone wants to buy me a copy feel free.

BTW how much is the cheapest version and will it be worth it just for the basic one?

[mirage]

I will supposedly receive an upgrade DVD for Vista Home Premium in the mail due to the upgrade coupon for XP MCE. Plus, we can get the Business edition through the university. But I have no intention to install Vista without an obligation or compelling reason. That reason probably will be Halo2, Halo has been our favorite game with my kids.

[Madball]

I have two free copies coming, but I may wait awhile to install one. I want reliable drivers before I make the jump.

[tmh88]

Yea I'd really like to try it out, but like I said, no money :( I'll just have to wait til the summer.

[Byrds6]

When it comes to the differences between Vista Ultimate and Home Premium what is the real difference? I looked at the caparison chart on M$ website but I know there has to be more than 3 things different between the two. I currently use XP Pro. I mean is most getting ultimate or going with premium

[Pterocarpous]

I'm torn too between Home Ultimate and Business Premium. I have to get it ---> 'cause I need to learn it --> 'cause I'll have t' support it --> :eek2:

I've been tryin' to figure out the differences, too. So far I've figured out that both ultimates include the MCE functionality. I was readin' the write up on newegg a few mins ago. The differences on their Vista promo page are vague at best...

[Pterocarpous]

Here's a word of caution ya'll tinkerer's and techs might want to consider.
Got this off newegg's vista q&a (http://promotions.newegg.com/microsoft/vista/AskROD.html)

Will Windows Vista work with my current programs?
Vista will run the majority of applications written for Windows XP with the exception of security software and utilities. I'd say that poses a problem for a lot of us....

HERE (http://promotions.newegg.com/msvista/Vista_Products.html) are newegg's OEM prices.

[Kyle]

I installed Premium in a dual-boot with XP a couple weeks ago. My university's software download portal for students/teachers/faculty has the 32-bit and 64-bit versions as a free download. It's great considering I'm no longer a student but can still log in. :) I'm glad I didn't have to decide whether or not it's worth the money because, after a few sessions of using Vista, I would say no.

[Byrds6]

Well the thing is if there is no major needed different between Vista Home Premium and Vista Ultimate then Ill go with premium because its cheaper lol. Thats what I want to know. If its actually warranted to pay the extra to get Ultimate. Anyone have a clue as to the difference other than the 3 or 4 things that are vaugly represented on M$ website

[Pterocarpous]

MS Vista Comparison Chart (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/editions/choose.mspx)

EDIT://

Ultimate has; Premium doesn't have
Protect against hardware failure
w/ Windows Complete PC Backup and Restore (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/features/details/completepcbackup.mspx)
Easier business networking connectivity
w/ Networking Center (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/features/details/networksharingcenter.mspx) and Remote Desktop (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/features/details/remotedesktopconnection.mspx)
Better protect your data against loss
w/ Windows BitLocker Drive Encryption (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/features/details/bitlocker.mspx)
Create high definition movies
w/ Windows Movie Maker in High Definition (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/features/details/moviemaker.mspx)

[Byrds6]

Yeah that would be the vague website. LOL There isnt much listed there as differences. That is why I asked is it worth it to buy Ultaimte over Premium.

[Pterocarpous]

Yeah that would be the vague website. LOL There isnt much listed there as differences. That is why I asked is it worth it to buy Ultaimte over Premium.
My sentiments exactly. There are links to ea. one of these "features" that I need to read up on. On first glance, however, I'm not too taken by them. Frankly, I don't want MS handling my data or volume backups. (Kinda the fox in the hen house IMO...) And I've no interest in making HD movies. So, unless there's somethin' special about the networking or Remote Desktop, I think it's Ultimate for me...

[Pterocarpous]

Ultimate has; Premium doesn't have
Protect against hardware failure
w/ Windows Complete PC Backup and Restore (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/features/details/completepcbackup.mspx)
Better taken care of by third party software

Easier business networking connectivity
w/ Networking Center (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/features/details/networksharingcenter.mspx) and Remote Desktop (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/features/details/remotedesktopconnection.mspx)
Re: the Networking, Couldn't really see the difference. No comparison between Ultimate and Premium.
Re: the Remote Desktop; looks like it's dedicated to integration w/ Win2k3 Longhorn. If that's not in your scope, it's a wasted resource.
Better protect your data against loss
w/ Windows BitLocker Drive Encryption (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/features/details/bitlocker.mspx)
A HDD encryption tool. A personal choice based on need & risk. May be better handled by third party utility.
Create high definition movies
w/ Windows Movie Maker in High Definition (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/features/details/moviemaker.mspx)
If you need it, fine. But may, in the end, be better handled by a dedicated application.

In the end, the additions (w/ the exception of the networking which I'm still unsure of) it would appear that the added features can be (likely better) handled by third party software. Personally, I want my OS to be an OS and leave the rest to third party programs that are dedicated to their respective tasks.

[mtrox]

The way I read this one (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/features/details/completepcbackup.mspx), it makes an image like Acronis. It's not clear though, it also implies that the image is only the original one....but then in other places it sounds like its just an imaging app.

I see Home doesn't have Shadow Copy....a real loss for those of us who use ntbackup all the time. Or is the new Shadow Copy different from the volume shadow copy service that lets me backup open files?

[Pterocarpous]

The way I read this one (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/features/details/completepcbackup.mspx), it makes an image like Acronis. It's not clear though, it also implies that the image is only the original one....but then in other places it sounds like its just an imaging app...
Looked a lot, to me, like the "restore" features/software shipped w/ so many proprietary computers. It'll restore the system back to its original state. That's it. If that's what it is, then it's pretty useless IMHO.
...I see Home doesn't have Shadow Copy....a real loss for those of us who use ntbackup all the time. Or is the new Shadow Copy different from the volume shadow copy service that lets me backup open files?
That's certainly a consideration. I use a backup utility that can now (didn't used to be able to) backup open files. Really helps in cases where folks habitually leave files or apps open or where an app or the sytem keeps a file "open" (or in use) for other operations. As for ntbackup no longer working, it looks like a lot of us are going to be shopping for new (compatible) utilities (or upgrades).

[DanG]

I'm in no rush, there's no 8800gtx drivers for vista last I checked, so not going to consider it till they're on at least the second revision of those.

[Weedo]

I'm ready to expunge the last system with 98se on it out of my life. I AM concerned about program compatibility and security though.

[Kentigern]

I think I'll wait 'til SP1 arrives later this year

[Oriane]

Premium has; Ultimate doesn't have


Isn't it the other way around?

I will have a copy of Ultimate for evaluation on an HD, but I'm not sure if I'll have a lot of time to look at it until break. From what I've seen of it- it looks like a lot of hassle to migrate to. :rolleyes:

[mtrox]

Good catch Oriane. On the site I look at for this stuff (http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_02.asp), Ultimate has every single box checked for the various options. Just what all those options mean, we're obviously not sure.

All I know for sure, when people are lined up at CompUSA tonight at midnight, I'll be fast asleep..... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[csimon]

I know one thing for sure ...I will not be getting the upgrade version.
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5887
It would be much pain to reinstall winxp to turn around and upgrade to vista everytime I format. pft

[TheSmJ]

I just checked with my school, and it looks like I can get Home Premium Upgrade for $89. I still don't think I'll be buying it this month though since my car's exhaust system is in need of TLC. Not to mention I can get this discounted price for as long as I'm a student, so I have a few more months to put it off if I wish.

As for the inability to install from an upgrade disk without having XP on the system beforehand, I plan to make an image of a stripped down Win XP install which that I can use to load on the drive quickly with Acronis before allowing Vista to wipe it out.

Changes in hardware shouldn't have any effect on this since XP only needs to be on the drive. It doesn't have to actually run.

[Pterocarpous]

Isn't it the other way around?

I will have a copy of Ultimate for evaluation on an HD, but I'm not sure if I'll have a lot of time to look at it until break. From what I've seen of it- it looks like a lot of hassle to migrate to. :rolleyes:
I'm sure I don't know what you're talkin' about, Oriane.... :rolleyes2

lol Sorry, Absolutely bass akwards! I fixed it, though - NOT that anyone noticed anyway.... ('cept maybe mtrox... :wink: )

[Pterocarpous]

...I just checked with my school, and it looks like I can get Home Premium Upgrade for $89. I still don't think I'll be buying it this month though since my car's exhaust system is in need of TLC. Not to mention I can get this discounted price for as long as I'm a student, so I have a few more months to put it off if I wish...
Lucky dawg!
...As for the inability to install from an upgrade disk without having XP on the system beforehand, I plan to make an image of a stripped down Win XP install which that I can use to load on the drive quickly with Acronis before allowing Vista to wipe it out....Changes in hardware shouldn't have any effect on this since XP only needs to be on the drive. It doesn't have to actually run...
You sure 'bout that? :range: What happens if you restore the image to a system that the XP build was not on originally? How you gonna get the restored XP build not to balk because of "significant' or "major' (whatever the stinking message is) 'hardware changes (OS) must be reactivated". That's if it'll even boot to the desktop (past the login window).

[TheSmJ]

Just posting a link to FS's Vista performance review with the latest ATI Cat drivers (7.1). http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/windows_vista_performance_amd_catalyst_7.1/

Looks pretty good. It appears that the biggest slowdown in one game is no more than 10 FPS, and some cards are even showing a boot in performance from XP to vista (however small).

[TheSmJ]

You sure 'bout that? :range: What happens if you restore the image to a system that the XP build was not on originally? How you gonna get the restored XP build not to balk because of "significant' or "major' (whatever the stinking message is) 'hardware changes (OS) must be reactivated". That's if it'll even boot to the desktop (past the login window).

Pretty sure (although I won't ever know for sure without trying it first hand). From what I've read you can still boot from the Vista disk and install, only it checks the HDD for an existing installation of XP and then moves on to ask you what you want to do with it (format and perform a fresh install, install to a different directory, shove it up Bill's ass, etc).

Since XP wouldn't have to actually load once the image is applied - let alone complain about too many hardware changes since it was originally installed (if it could even load at all), I can't see why it wouldn't work. Sure there is a really, really slim chance the Vista installer will actually check to make sure the XP install is fully operational and activated, but I have many reasons to doubt it would go that far.

Besides, since the full edition is so much more expensive (goes for around $230 at my school) I'd rather just deal with the hassle of installing Vista on top of XP when neccessary and keep the $140.

[Pterocarpous]

Pretty sure (although I won't ever know for sure without trying it first hand). From what I've read you can still boot from the Vista disk and install, only it checks the HDD for an existing installation of XP and then moves on to ask you what you want to do with it (format and perform a fresh install, install to a different directory, shove it up Bill's ass, etc).
Oh gawd! I can't stop laughing!! Your killin' me!! ;D;D;D My cats are lookin' at me like I've lost my mind...
Okay. I'm getting myself under control now....lordy, that really caught me off guard, TheSmJ...

Well, in that case it's a definetly a good idea. In fact, you'd never even have to get the (activated) XP build to boot. Just restore the image to the HDD - whatever system it's on doesn't matter - then w/o letting it boot to the GUI, boot to the Vista installation DVD instead. Let it find the XP build and tell it to format it. Viola! Great idea TheSmJ!

[Weedo]

No more clean installs for Vista upgrade versions?!!! Grrrrrrr!!!!

That's redonkulous. Serioulsy... I'm having second thoughts about getting it now.

[Byrds6]

Im having second thoughts about getting it now too since HP isnt going to be supporting the 64bit version of the OS. Whats the point in getting it if I still can not take advantage of the hardware in my machine. Its just rediculous. This is why we should be able to get drivers from anywhere and not just from HP.

[Thrax]

To be fair, there's nothing that takes advantage of 64bit even with the OS in place. ;D Nothing practical, at any rate.

[Byrds6]

So youre saying that having a 64bit OS over a 32bit OS if you have a 64bit CPU has no advantages? I mean I do realise most programs are written in 32bit code but still there has to still be a performance increase for changing.

[primesuspect]

I'm desperately waiting for 64bit versions of Adobe Creative Suite. I use 4gb of RAM on my main graphic design workstation and it's still not enough. I'm tapped out. Need more ram!

[Byrds6]

My laptop will only hold the 2gigs I have in it so in that department Im screwed lol. I usually only game and such though so 2gigs is plenty for what I actually do. I just wanted to take full advantage of what I have. Sadly HP isnt allowing that one lol.

[CB]

Well, If my past behavior is any indication, I will be getting Vista once either a new Sid Meier's Civilization or an Elderscrolls game requires it to run. :P

[Byrds6]

Ill probably get it and wait a while to install it. I have the money atm lol. Now I just have to figure out to get ultimate or premium. Ultimate doesnt seem to have much more to offer for the extra 150.

[shwaip]

To be fair, there's nothing that takes advantage of 64bit even with the OS in place. ;D Nothing practical, at any rate.

matlab, an EE's best friend, does.



oh god I'm so alone.

[csimon]

I'll definitely wait. The OpenGl performance hit has definitely got me sticking with XP. I'm curious to see what becomes of that.

[Cyclonite]

matlab, an EE's best friend, does.

Oh, man! Really?! Sweet. It's amazing the difference in processing time between the different machines on which I've used Matlab.

[Straight_Man]

Here's PC world's take on Vista:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,128273-page,1-c,vistalonghorn/article.html?tk=nl_dmxrvw

[mtrox]

The OpenGl performance hit has definitely got me sticking with XP. I'm curious to see what becomes of that.

Didn't I read somewhere that ATI has that solved but nVidia doesn't....or that other way around.....???

[Byrds6]

ATI is supposedly ahead of Nvidia on the performance of the graphic drivers in Vista

[csimon]

ATI is supposedly ahead of Nvidia on the performance of the graphic drivers in Vista
I haven't seen anything about it. The reviews I saw reported that OpenGl apps downright sux on Vista. I can't afford that.

[mtrox]

Here's what I remembered Byrds. From the PC World article (http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,128273-page,3-c,vistalonghorn/article.html) Straight_Man referred to:

Our other test game, Doom 3, didn't run at all on the Vista systems that used ATI graphics cards; at this writing, ATI's beta drivers for Vista don't support the OpenGL graphics system that this game requires. nVidia's beta driver, however, did support OpenGL graphics. ATI and nVidia both claim that they will have full versions of their drivers ready by the time Vista ships.

[Byrds6]

If I remember correctly that was an older review of Vista. It seems like I recall reading it at any point. I am guessing however ATI got that resolved as for what im reading these days is that ATI and Intel are both ahead of Nvidia in coming out with decent drivers. I am however thinking of installing Vista now lol. It is just getting to me that its sitting behind the laptop waiting. Ive read a lot of people really like it.

[danball1976]

I personally will be waiting until either:
a.) Microsoft ends support for Windows XP Professional (they've already done this for XP Home last year).
-or-
b.) SP1 becomes available for Vista.

I've been using WinXP Pro since 2001, will be testing WinXP Pro 64bit later this year, and depending on how well XP Pro 64bit runs, I'll be switching over to that eventually before ever going to Vista 64bit.

[Byrds6]

Ive used xp pro since it came out too. I personally just dont care to go try xp64. That would just be one more thing id have to buy before buying Vista anyway so while i had the money I got Vista.

[Straight_Man]

I personally will be waiting until either:
a.) Microsoft ends support for Windows XP Professional (they've already done this for XP Home last year).


XP Home will get extended (security only) support for as long as XP Pro will. Microsoft changed thier mind recently.

[Byrds6]

Too bad not many folks are talking abuot their experience with Vista. LOL maybe they cant get online to tell us.

[csimon]

Too bad not many folks are talking abuot their experience with Vista. LOL maybe they cant get online to tell us. LOL ...this is possible!

At any rate ...now they're saying there is a loophole in the clean install of the upgrade version. http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5932 ...basically you need to install it twice but you can delete the old files.

[mtrox]

Nice find csimon. MS had to know this was left "out there", and had to know someone would find it....soon.

[Weedo]

"When this occurs, the Windows XP license is forfeited and the Windows Vista installation process can take place."

I hope this doesn't mean forfeited for all time. I want to put Vista upgrade on my main rig then move my copy of XP to my second rig. I was hoping this wouldn't be a problem as I bought a new SATA hd just for Vista and just wanted to pull the old hd out 'as is' and set it aside in case I had problems with the Vista install. In the mean time I'd like to install XP on my second rig and get it up and going. I should be able to do that. I hope. Being able to do a clean Vista install will help.

Why must MS sit around and think up ways to complicate our digital lives.

[Leonardo]

Too bad not many folks are talking abuot their experience with Vista. LOL maybe they cant get online to tell us.You are making an assumption that many have upgraded(?) to Vista. My assumption is the great majority of Windows users have not switched and are not seriously contemplating such. Perhaps the lack of reported user experience with Vista is due to lack of user experience. :rolleyes:

I will be happy to use and comment on Vista if anyone wishes to donate a copy. Having read much about the new OS, I find no compelling reason to pay for a copy. It's my opinion that the advancement from Windows 98 to Windows XP was a huge leap, due to the NTFS filing system, greatly improved drivers support, and automated networking features. I see absolutely no equivalent advances in Vista. Maybe I'm wrong. If so, I invite any Vista user to..

post their user experience with Vista and explain.

[mtrox]

I will be happy to use and comment on Vista if anyone wishes to donate a copy.

That's a great offer Leonardo. I'm going to send you a copy of Vista. Could you post your address and SS number?

[Leonardo]

Do I get free tickets to the "European Lottery" with that? or have I already won?

:bigggrin:

[Byrds6]

LOL. Im sure not everyone will run out and buy a copy just like not everyone ran out and buy XP but a lot will just out of pure curiosity. I had XP from the time it came out and I remember it being just about as bad as Vista in terms of initial performance and support. Vista will eventually surpass XP just like XP did the others. And on that note I have two base devices listed on my DV9000t I cant figure out what they are to install the drivers lol anyone have a clue

[Sledgehammer70]

I think if I had the cash I would put it on my laptop :)

[Byrds6]

I did it with income tax. I got premium to start with til I found out that it did not come with both the 64 and 32bit disks. So far I have only had the 2 devices I dont know what they are. I keep looking in the device manager and cant pair them off with something thats not their lol. Sad isnt it.

[Island Dog]

Well I have had the RTM for a while and I actually like Vista. I'm really excited about the customization that is upcoming for it, especially DeskScapes.

[Byrds6]

what customizations? how do i turn on 3d flip and such i havent found that yet lol. and is there any way to turn off that annoying are you usre you want to do this msg.

[Island Dog]

what customizations? how do i turn on 3d flip and such i havent found that yet lol. and is there any way to turn off that annoying are you usre you want to do this msg.

Here's a start.

http://www.wincustomize.com/Articles.aspx?aid=142507

[Weedo]

Concerning that fresh install procedure for Vista from Dailytech.com... it didn't work for me. I still got an error when I tried to activate that said my key was only good for upgrades not fresh installs. Now I'm going to have to do all that work over again and this time start with XP. Grrrrr!!

It was lookin good though.

[mtrox]

OK, so I just got Vista today. Brand new Core 2 box, Home Premium. Glad I have 4 wireless cards lying around. It took two hours and the fourth wireless card to find one that worked. An old Dlink DWL G520 installed fine. Its one of the native drivers included in Vista. The Linksys WMP54G had a Vista driver on the Linksys site.....no go. Just code 10 and code 31. The help out on the net was no help.

I think it all would have been solved a long time before that if I'd had the internet. Apparently if you search for the Linksys driver Windows update will send you one that works fine. This computer is a long way from the cable modem though.

[Byrds6]

Some of the versions of XP arent upgradable to some of the versions of Vista. Not sure what version of each you have but somewhere on M$ website I recall seeing that chart. Not saying thats your issue but just throwing it out in case it could be.

[Missileman]

I installed Vista Business from my action pack. thanks to Nvida's total lack of having any chipset/RAID drivers available I had to do an upgrade also.

I used Acronis and imaged one RAID to the other. Booted my desired array and ran setup from the Vista DVD. I selected custom install and it informed me that this would wipe all my files and settings (as expected). Weird thing is that it did wipe my program files, windows, and all documents, pics, mail, etc.... Just like a clean install, but it doesn't wipe or format the partition since it left all my root directories like temp, test, download, etc... Anything I created as a folder was left along with files in them. All programs and normal data storage folders (pics, music and such) were wiped.

Install went fine. Installed creative drivers, Nvidia graphics drivers. Nforce drivers updated themselves off of windows update.

Installed NOD32 and Office 2007 Enterprise. Moved my outlook backup files and all docs, pics, and stuff.

Seems much snappier then XP. Especially any network operation.

I may actually activate it. The action pack gives me an upgrade to ultimat for $139 under the upgrade now program. I may do it if it includes the 64bit version like the DVD pack does.

[mtrox]

Seems much snappier then XP. Especially any network operation.

I wouldn't say that....but then I went from a Celeron M to a Core 2 Duo with Vista so I'm not a good gauge. I will say that networking seems far easier. I purposely didn't bring any settings over to this. I wanted to see how the wizards work. I think in a couple years my house call business will be down. I think the average guy is going to be able to network a couple/three computers and a printer with this much easier.

Already started figuring out to futz with the permissions so I don't have to click 4 #$%@! "continue" and "Yes" buttons every time I want to make a folder just to organize things.

[Byrds6]

You can turn the user account deal off if you want. Just be aware when you do some programs will not like it when you try to install them. The Adobe acrobat reader 8 being one of them. It gave me an error when I tried to install it. According to Adobes site the fix was turn the account security back on.

[mtrox]

I'm with Byrds. Don't get too carried away with turning that user control off. But you can also tweak that by changing the permissions on some folders. I got tired of clicking four (4) confirmation boxes every time I wanted to organize the folders in my start up menus. If you just change the permissions on the Programs folder, you can do what you want without convincing Gates that you're friendly.

To get HiJackThis to work, just make shortcut where it runs as Administrator. Otherwise it runs but can't make changes when you check boxes to delete startups.

[leishi85]

installed vista business edition couple days ago on my macbook using Parallels Desktop, no problems at all, but it does eat memory like crazy.

I will stick with OS X

[Jonsey]

As the subject says: Who here has any plans to buy Vista sometime this week?


Sometime this week?!

Pssh, nubs, been using RTM bits since {redacted} and was using the pre-{redacted} {redacted} for months!

Now, if only I could talk about the other {redacted}

(Also, hi SmJ, I'm back!)

[Jonsey]

Also, Leshi, just a thought about Vista's Memory Comsumption...

The way Vista handles memory is a bit... more... intelligent that prior builds of Windows.

If the Memory is being unused by User-Mode-Junk {hereafter UMJ} why shouldn't Windows pre-load as much as it can, and get up to 75%ish memory load?

You're not using the memory for anything else otherwise, and it's pretty smart when it comes to unload memory to allow space for UMJ.

Yes, Vista sucks memory, because memory is almost an L3 cache, and you might as well try to have as little OS stuff go-to-disk as possible when you're not running UMJ.

Now, if Vista will fight your UMJ for alloc when you're running big UMJ, then you need to worry about memory usage, but it's not a hard alloc like it was in prior windows, rather, it shares space in ways like UMJ. :)

[primesuspect]

Welcome back, Jonesy.. It's rare (and nice) to have someone who really really knows what they're talking about on board ;) :D

[mtrox]

You're not using the memory for anything else otherwise, and it's pretty smart when it comes to unload memory to allow space for UMJ.

Interesting comments Jonsey. I almost think another way of capsulizing this Vista-eats-memory discussion is this:

If you measure a computer by its free RAM, just put a copy of DOS 5.0 on your latest 2 Gig DDR II machine. Now go to a C: prompt and type "mem" like we used to. You'll have the best computer in the world.

[Jonsey]

I believe that Vista subscribes to the "if you've got it, flaunt it" school of memory management.

(did I just get my first SM-byte?)