View Full Version : Windows Vista Impression
Sledgehammer70
7 Feb 2007, 8:52pm
Well I was able to score a grand copy of Windows Vista just a few short days ago, and I was able to have the time last night to convert my laptop to Windows Vista Ultimate 32bit edition. I opted for the 32bit version as I knew most of the drivers I need only have options for 32bit, so going 64bit right now doesn’t make sence.
The install went smooth taking about 25-30 minutes tops and booted into a sweet Aero layout :). I have installed all my programs I used for windows XP such as:
- Dreamweaver
- Adobe Photoshop CS2
- 3Ds Max 7 & 8
- Architectural Desktop 2003 & 2007
- Adobe Premier
- Adobe Acrobat Pro
- EA Link
- SmartFTP
- Firefox
- Winrar
- Windows Mobile Device Center
- Microsoft Office 2003
- MSN Messenger LIVE
- AIM 6.0
- Nvidia Control Panel
and a few other goodies.. Without a hitch
I was also able to install my slew of PC games which I won't even start to list. But so far I have only had 1 drive hiccup and that is for my laptops media slots for the 13 in 1 reader. HP has stated they will have drivers in the coming months, which doesn't really bother me as I never use them anyways.
But I have to say the system runs very smooth, and the look and feel has grown on me. I am not to sure what all the hub-bub is about that all these sites are complaining about, but overall Microsoft has delivered me a stable and solid OS that I already love.
I would say the only down side to Vista is the small learning curve needed to get back up to speed. A ton of items are in new places and just finding them all was a small task but like I said a learning curve is always needed when you jump into a new OS.
In all I can't really say if the upgrade was worth it as I got my copy for free from a great friend. But now that I have it, I don't think I will be going back to XP ever again. So maybe I can say the upgrade version is more than worth it…
primesuspect
7 Feb 2007, 8:58pm
The only problems I've had so far are:
DxO Optics Pro 4.1 (the latest version) simply will not work at all with Vista. This is one of my "daily" programs. I use it all the time. Dead in the water. DxO says "soon".
My camera - Canon EOS 300D (The original Digital Rebel) - This is a very popular camera. Why on earth it wouldn't be supported in Vista is beyond me, but it's not. Dead. I can't use my camera at all on the computer. I have to use my Mac for camera stuff now.
Adobe Creative Suite 2.3 (the latest) - alpha channel stuff seems flaky. Transparencies and opacity settings aren't being honored onscreen. This is probably more video driver related than software related.
itunes randomly crashes. Apple acknowledges, new version soon.
Quickbooks 2006 randomly crashes. Now they have updated it with a warning: "This software is not compatible with Vista blah blah blah". Sometimes it works, sometimes crashes in the middle of whatever. Very frustrating. Intuit's answer? Spend $300 on Quickbooks 2007, please. Kthx.
Other than that, everything's smooth. Worth upgrading from XP? Not for me.... but I have to stay modern to support my customers, so.... it has to be Vista :-/
Sledgehammer70
7 Feb 2007, 9:34pm
You actually use the Camera software? does it not have a removeable media card?
Leonardo
7 Feb 2007, 9:38pm
You actually use the Camera software? does it not have a removeable media card?Yeah, exactly. My Nikon came with actually decent, usable software, but it's nothing compared to PC software. I never connect my camera to my computers. I just use the compact flash card, move the pictures to the hard drive, and manipulate/edit them there.
primesuspect
7 Feb 2007, 9:57pm
No, you don't understand. I don't use the camera's software, I've always just used Windows camera and scanner wizard to copy the files off the camera. With XP, my workflow was ironed out to a science - plug the camera in, name the folder, boom - they all copied. Now, I can't plug the camera in - it has no recognition of it (even the XP driver won't work). I don't have a compact flash reader. Now I'll either have to go out and buy one, wait for my camera to be supported in vista, or just use my mac. I don't feel great about going out and spending money on hardware I don't need just because what worked in XP doesn't work in vista.
Sledgehammer70
7 Feb 2007, 10:08pm
hmm so it was the basic windows software you used? if so that sucks, makes you wonder if MS will even add support for the camera...
I have plugged my brother inlaws Kodak P712 and my Z612 with no snags... not really top of the line equipment like your Camera, but it was supported by Vista hmm...
From the technical end, Vista is a pain in the ass to work with. The simple process of taking an NIB OEM PC out of the box, setting it up and installing security software can take up to 90 minutes. These PCs are starting up with 512mb of RAM used for basic windows services, with 40+ processes spawned to keep the computer running.
I've already submitted half a dozen bugs to Microsoft, JUST in the windows OEM setup process. I can repeatedly make explorer.exe crash while performing menial tasks, Windows Defender doesn't back down when superior anti-spyware software is installed, I can get PS2 mouse and keyboards to stop working entirely in the OEM process just by clicking an icon in the wrong order, I've already had to completely restore three Windows Vista PCs straight out of the box because the setup procedure left a computer that wouldn't load windows, etc. etc.
Leonardo
7 Feb 2007, 10:33pm
I don't feel great about going out and spending money on hardware I don't need just because what worked in XP doesn't work in vista.OK, I'm in agreement on that! But if you have to make a purchase, at least the pain won't be too bad, as card readers have come way down in price.
I am not to sure what all the hub-bub is about that all these sites are complaining about, but overall Microsoft has delivered me a stable and solid OS that I already love.
Incredible isn't it? All the ersatz anti-establishment types who hate it just because its Microsoft. Its different. Give it time. But if you have a blog to write.....it doesn't really cut much to have an even handed approach.
Only had two problems:
I tried 4 wireless cards I had lying around before I found one that Vista could work with. And the Vista driver Linksys had on their site? No go.
None of my power options work while I'm logged in. As soon as I log out, the display and hard drive will shut down when they're supposed to.
TheSmJ
7 Feb 2007, 11:16pm
Sledge,
Did you switch over from XP without multi booting?
primesuspect
7 Feb 2007, 11:43pm
The ultimate feeling I get is that Vista seems beta still. After all this time in production, it still doesn't feel right. I remember XP being very stable and very "wow" out of the box. I don't have that same feeling with Vista. There are too many little weird things that have gone wrong so far. I've had explorer crash twice, doing nothing weird at all.
The ultimate feeling I get is that Vista seems beta still. After all this time in production, it still doesn't feel right. I remember XP being very stable and very "wow" out of the box. I don't have that same feeling with Vista. There are too many little weird things that have gone wrong so far. I've had explorer crash twice, doing nothing weird at all.
That is exactly my feeling as well, and that's what irks me so much.
airbornflght
7 Feb 2007, 11:47pm
I have said and still maintain that I feel microsoft rushed this one out the door. I've played around with it and it doesn't feel as though it has that 'final polish' yet.
Sledgehammer70
8 Feb 2007, 1:13am
Sledge,
Did you switch over from XP without multi booting?
Not to sure what you mean? I inserted the Upgrade disc in my Windows XP Media Center Lappy, and choose to upgrade, ii than ran the install and was done with it. Once I finished inputting personal options I deleted the "Windows.old folder"
What is missing that makes it a non beta? I don't see it... As for your issues with your OEM, I can't comment as I didn't purchase an OEM copy of the software.
Also Prime I am trying to find the issues you were talking about in Adobe's programs. All seems to look good and function well.
primesuspect
8 Feb 2007, 1:23am
Like I said, Sledge... The issues with Adobe seem like video card related, as it all has to do with hardware acceleration.
I have no issues with OEM. I'm not using an OEM build, I'm using a full retail version that I paid for. That's what irks ME so much, is that I paid a lot of money for this upgrade-that-feels-like-a-downgrade.
There's nothing "missing". There are a lot of features and functions - more than I will ever need. It's not any missing feature that makes it seem like a beta.. It's the fact that I am experiencing random crashes and random problems with random applications - including, but not limited to, the shell itself. I've had explorer crash for no discernable reason. Sure, it restarts and the shell comes back up and life goes on, but my computer never did that with Windows XP. Is it a minor problem? Yes. Am I confident that it will be fixed via patch or driver update? Yes. The point is - those are all symptoms of beta software. Obviously it wasn't tested rigorously enough. Just like beta software. This release wasn't ready for prime time, that's all I'm saying.
This is $259 of my hard earned money, dude. I paid a lot for a product that doesn't quite work right, and took away some of the things I am used to doing, like my ability to get pictures off my 4 year old camera.
Not to sure what you mean? I inserted the Upgrade disc in my Windows XP Media Center Lappy, and choose to upgrade, ii than ran the install and was done with it. Once I finished inputting personal options I deleted the "Windows.old folder".
Sorry. I meant to ask if you preserved the original XP install before installing Vista. If you hadn't I would have asked if you found yourself booting to XP at all afterwards.
In retrospect I should have asked it in a better way. :o
Personally I can't get drivers for my TV card, and since it's an important device on my machine since I use my machine as a DVR as well as a gaming machine. I find I'm stuck in XP until I can replace the card with one which is Vista compatible (the card itself is almost 10 years old with the developer being out of business for the past 7 years, so I'm not too disappointed or surprised).
Otherwise I really like Vista. It would seem that the largest lost in FPS for any D3D game is around 10 FPS, and I can live with that 'till NVIDIA comes up with better drivers.
primesuspect
8 Feb 2007, 4:07am
this is what I'm talking about:
Honestly, the computer was completely idle, just sitting there, and this just popped up out of the blue:
http://www.short-media.com/images/prime/exception_vista.gif
wtf? Obviously this is an ATI driver thing, and it will be rectified with a patch, but this is what I mean when I say it feels beta. Obviously this is an extremely complex OS and everything, and errors like these aren't dealbreakers, but they are annoying, and they leave me with the impression of instability. Impression is everything ;) The last time I remember windows throwing error windows up for no apparent reason at all was Windows ME :(
primesuspect
8 Feb 2007, 4:27am
And again:
http://www.short-media.com/images/prime/another_vista_mess.jpg
I mean, I was in the windows picture viewer - standard bundled software with every version of Vista... I clicked the help button and things went crazy. :shakehead
witenoiz
8 Feb 2007, 4:33am
this is what I'm talking about:
The last time I remember windows throwing error windows up for no apparent reason at all was Windows ME :(
I never used ME but Loved 2000 and really like XP - I haven't seen that type of error since I did all of those Illegal Operations in Windows 98 SE. :rolleyes: I will probably wait 6 months before I try Vista - and I just built a 64 bit system. Jack
AlphaTrinity
8 Feb 2007, 5:35am
When is the first service pack coming out for Vista?
I got a copy from my college since I work in IT, and I figured that I would just make Vista my main OS, but I don't really want to until some more of the bugs (like previously mentioned) are worked out. I figure that after service pack 1 comes out things will be a lot better.
I heard someone say it was coming at the end of March, and another person say it's not coming out until the summer. I assume that someone at SM knows since SM people know everything :D
I'm now using it at work... main problems I had was figuring out the favorites folder location so I could transfer my favorites over. I am using Vista Business. Seems good so far... but the first thing I checked was memory usage. Right now I am at 331MB with my ticketing software up.
I'm going to wait till SP1 before I truly decide if I want it on my system yet or not.
Sledgehammer70
8 Feb 2007, 6:20am
I understand where you coming from Prime... I guess I just haven't ran into any errors with my experience thus far. My comment about OEM was to Thrax, as it seems he has had some hands on with the OEM side of Vista.
It is funny because I have had more issues with Windows XP in the first few days of ownership than i am with Vista. I guess everyone gets a different experience. From what I know and have seen is that Vista was tested way more than XP, but I could be wrong there.
Butters
8 Feb 2007, 6:33am
Its taking some time for me to like Vista... Its hard for me to get over elevating the command prompt, services, etc.. Using the search to elevate instead of the Start>Run is just obsurd, (I'ved added Run back to start menu through properties) for all that fun admin stuff... especially on a domain when you connect to others on occasion...
I keep getting reminded by a coworker that people said XP sucked when it first came out, but I disagree.. XP was fairly decent out of the box for me, thanks to all the obstacles win2K had to overcome...
I'm giving the rest of the week to decide whether or not to put back XP on my laptop.. though my laptop wasn't really designed for Vista (intel 945 gfx)
and more importantly, the Cisco VPN client is a little shady, and I can't run Cisco IP Communicator!!!
I will say that I don't quite understand the driver issues. I don't remember XP coming out with all the driver comatibility issues. Did MS just change some crucial piece of code last November and no one has had time to catch up? I don't know why everyone seems to have been so caught off guard with no drivers............
XP and Win2K are very similar for driver use... practically identically from what I understand.
I don't know what it is like where you are at, but Vista is simply not flying off the shelves where I am. For that matter- copies that were there on opening day are still there. Some have already "upgraded" their new machine to Windows XP- even Ubuntu.
From what I'm seeing- this is definitely not the Windows 95 revolution, or even the warm XP welcome. People I'm talking to are starting to say what I suspected- Vista is more expense and trouble than it's worth.
From the little evaluation I did of it in trying to migrate some legacy applications and games- I have to agree.
primesuspect
8 Feb 2007, 2:15pm
mtrox, I believe Microsoft completely changed the driver model, requiring hardware vendors to re-learn much of the gains they had made in regards to expertise with writing drivers for XP/2K.
I don't disagree with these things. Replacing legacy code (like they did with the TCP/IP stack) and modernizing APIs like DirectX as well as making better framework for drivers are all important technological innovations. It never hurts to improve and move forward. My problem is with the execution. Vista to me, seems like Windows ME's big brother - maybe a few years from now we'll laugh at Vista and say "wtf were they thinking?" It seems like a platform that they rushed out in order to present all of these new technologies all at once. The theory was good, but the execution was poor.
Don't get me wrong. I like Vista - or at least I like what Vista will be. It has all the underpinnings of a great OS. This release is beta, that's all I'm saying.
AlphaTrinity
9 Feb 2007, 12:39am
Running Vista Business, and there have been no bugs for me (so far, it's only been a few hours)
I had one scare where I thought my computer reboot itself, but it was only Vista applying some updates (keyboard driver)
Everything is running very smoothly, I think I might just make this my primary boot, I was afraid that my audigy 2 zs drivers still wouldn't be out, so I kept an xp partition just in case.
-Edit- Nvm, I'm having major issues installing firefox :(
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/Dargo5/firefoxfailure.jpg
Hey guys, sorry I've been gone so long... something about getting hired by Microsoft and working on Vista has taken up a bit of my time. :)
Vista is not the be-all-end-all for the consumer, it's an evolution, not a revolution for that. I love it, but I get under the hood more than even most of you S_Media-ers do.
However, what Vista does do, it does well.
There are issues for early adopters, there always are (ask me about nVidia drivers), but even with a mostly corporate targeted release of windows, it's working out quite well. Give it a try (legally) when you get a chance, you'll probably find you like a lot of it.
Now to update my /sig to show that everything I post is only my opinion, and not a statement by my employers present or past.
Leonardo
9 Feb 2007, 4:31am
sorry I've been gone so long :mean:
But you're back now, so all is forgiven. :) :cool:
Thanks for the disclosure on your job. Telling us was the right thing to do.
Give it a try (legally) when you get a chance, you'll probably find you like a lot of it.
I'd love to. So how do I go about doing so without risking all of the money?
I remember the issues I had when XP came out ...called "infinite loop". It took months for that to be corrected while my "legal" software sat in a drawer unused. Finally I had to fork over a new video card to get it going. That meant a $700 refurbished card down the toilet just to get XP to run.
I think I'll like Vista ...I just don't want to get burned again.
primesuspect
9 Feb 2007, 4:52am
That's why my "official short-media reviewer advice" is: Wait a few months. I have a feeling that most of this stuff is puppy-legs stuff. Wait for the drivers to shake out a bit, wait for a couple of big patches, and then it will be great. It's really a nice OS, with all the underpinnings and potential to be the best desktop OS going, but it still needs to get past the last few rough patches.
There will be at least one evaluation copy of Vista launching in the near future (in the timeframe that prime mentions). This will allow you to test the system out without having to burn money on a perpetual license.
It probably won't be the SKU you *want* to test, but if you've seen how much hair-pulling-out I have to do when a new SKU is ready to go out (outside of the development timeframe) .... it's a month-killer.
--That dude who does all the out-of-band releases (like the Vista Ultimate Extras [I'll get you your damn dreamscene as soon as I can]) and new SKUs.
I have a feeling that most of this stuff is puppy-legs stuff.
That's my story so far. I've had problems with;
Wireless PCI card drivers
Wireless keyboard driver
My VPN's
These are all a case of third party* vendors needing to catch up. That's not to say that you should dive in. But they aren't a case of the OS being unstable or having an "unfinished" feel.
* the wireless keyboard was a Microsoft...are they a third party vendor.....?
I wouldn't lump MS hardware in as 3rd party, though for legal reasons, it very well may be, or may have to be considered as such, I am certainly not giving any sort of legal advice. (cover-my-ass much?)
The plus side with the wireless desktop periphs was that the undesired operation was an inconvience, not a "problem", and it got fixed fast!
(woot us!)
fmueller
9 Feb 2007, 7:36pm
No, you don't understand. I don't use the camera's software, I've always just used Windows camera and scanner wizard to copy the files off the camera. With XP, my workflow was ironed out to a science - plug the camera in, name the folder, boom - they all copied. Now, I can't plug the camera in - it has no recognition of it (even the XP driver won't work). I don't have a compact flash reader. Now I'll either have to go out and buy one, wait for my camera to be supported in vista, or just use my mac. I don't feel great about going out and spending money on hardware I don't need just because what worked in XP doesn't work in vista.
Of course it's annoying when you have to change your workflow, but although I know a lot of people who shoot digital SLRs, including an number of professionals, I don't know anybody else who does the data transfer like you used to. Also, the 300D - although popular in it's day and still a great camera in my opinion - is now outdated by two generations (350D and 400D) which makes me wonder if it will ever be supported by Vista in the way you would want it to be. That's why I would recommend getting a flash card reader like most anybody else seems to do. You can get a perfectly good one for well under $10, and I am sure you will never look back!
Frank
primesuspect
9 Feb 2007, 8:31pm
I don't have a choice at this point! :D
Leonardo
9 Feb 2007, 8:35pm
Wait a few months. I have a feeling that most of this stuff is puppy-legs stuff. I will probably do the same I did with the upgrade from 98 to XP, which is to wait about nine months, let the early adopters identify the problems, and let the hardware manufacturers get their driver acts together. My transition to XP was rather enjoyable, with very few problems.
As to cameras, no one should be encouraged to upgrade cameras merely because they are two or three years old. Top grade lenses, such as are found on Nikons and some of the Canons (yes, a few other brands as well) are the most lasting and important components of a camera. The software installed in the camera is not a major factor compared to lense quality. If the lense quality is mediocre, the best, most up to date software won't make much of a difference.
Just use a card reader. Cheap, it works, problem solved.
fmueller
9 Feb 2007, 11:00pm
As to cameras, no one should be encouraged to upgrade cameras merely because they are two or three years old. Top grade lenses, such as are found on Nikons and some of the Canons (yes, a few other brands as well) are the most lasting and important components of a camera. The software installed in the camera is not a major factor compared to lense quality. If the lense quality is mediocre, the best, most up to date software won't make much of a difference.
Well said! I don't think anybody in their right mind would ditch a 300D just because it's incompatible with Vista. I have a 350D and my brother owns a 300D, and these cameras are essentially just the same as the current 400D. In fact, I have been thinking about getting my Dad a 300D if prices keep on falling as they have been. The only DSLR worth upgrading to from a 300D or 350D is a 5D - but that's a lot more money, and not worth it unless you are a pro or money really isn't an issue for you.
That said, while in the film photography days a camera was just a box to hold the film and lens in place, now it contains the sensor, which is an essential component in the picture taking process. So while pre-digital (for me until last year) I still shot Minolta SRTs and XDs - cameras from the 1970s and 1980s - I now expect to have to upgrade my camera a little more frequently :bigggrin:
Frank
ronbo
11 Feb 2007, 10:25pm
I never used ME but Loved 2000 and really like XP - I haven't seen that type of error since I did all of those Illegal Operations in Windows 98 SE. :rolleyes: I will probably wait 6 months before I try Vista - and I just built a 64 bit system. Jack
I concure on Windows 2000 and Windows XP....2000 was, and still is very stable. Windows Xp is the gamers choice and very stable too. My nephew works for Oracle in New Hampshire as a master programer and he told me to stay away from Vista for now. The OS is very heavy on system resources. If you like Norton you might like Vista too, they are both system hogs. As far as DX10, he said his guess is 90% that it will be available for XP too, one way or another. XP has been running fine for me since its release, so I am staying with it. From what I have read so far about Vista, nothing is going to make me jump to it. What, if any, are the advantages of it?...:thumbsup:
Jonsey
12 Feb 2007, 2:14am
Lies, until the new versions of DirectX came out, 2000 was the real gamer's choice.... it listened when you turned off mouse acceleration. Razer never had to.... uhh... modify a .sys file to allow you to use a mouse properly on 2k. :)
Also, ronbo, read my earlier post on why Vista seems heavier on system resources. XP & Vista's memory usage can't be compared 1:1. :)
2000 is still faster than XP for games.
Jonsey can you point me to the post about Vista and system resources so I do not have to read all of your posts? thanks...
mtrox
12 Feb 2007, 12:34pm
Jonsey can you point me to the post about Vista and system resources so I do not have to read all of your posts? thanks...
http://www.short-media.com/forum/showpost.php?p=461872&postcount=71
Sledgehammer70
12 Feb 2007, 3:40pm
DX10 will not be available on a DX9 system. Rumors of this have floated around, but it will not happen. To get DX10 you need to have Windows Vista.
XP is a tried and true OS, but in time after updates and SP's rollout Vista will surpass XP and become the main stream OS. The layout of Vista is already going with major companies like Dell and HP putting Vista on their systems already. I am willing to bet in 2 years Vista will be all over the place, and the majority of computer help threads will be based on Vista...
I have been running Vista for about a week now and have really settled into it. I love the new Voice command, as it works a million times better than XP's offering, and I have gotten it trained to my voice pretty well. I can open any program and get to any site using my voice. The only downside to Vista from my standpoint is the fact I am having issues with my sound drivers. I know they are not Vista drivers and that new ones are promised, but it is odd playing a few games getting glitched sounds. but I found If I run the games in windowed mode the issue goes away... kind of wired, but once Vista drivers come out for the hardware, I am sure this is not going to be how games need to be ran :)
TheSmJ
12 Feb 2007, 4:29pm
What soundcard you using Sledge?
Sledgehammer70
12 Feb 2007, 5:58pm
It is the standard card built on to the system "Conexant High Definition Audio" I also found another way around it, with my Bluetooth headset, as my BT drivers are all supported and updated, so I am using its proprietary BT Hands-free Audio and the BT Stereo Audio.
Sledge, is the voice command in Vista just another form of Dragon Naturaly Speaking? I use voice command now for my emails and in my browser and in Word.
Sledgehammer70
12 Feb 2007, 7:39pm
It looks like it has been revamped. I spent maybe 1 1/2 hours gfetting it setup while watching TV. Once I got it to type web URL's I was sold :)
GnomeWizardd
12 Feb 2007, 7:52pm
one thing i noticed on alot of peoples pc's is that People with 512 shouldnt even be allowed to buy vista
Sledge, is the voice command in Vista just another form of Dragon Naturaly Speaking? I use voice command now for my emails and in my browser and in Word.
ha! dragon naturaly speaking was the shiz! i used that for all my h/w all through my last years of highschool, saved me so much time and effort! its in there with AOEII as a classic that will always hold a piece of my heart in this ever changing computer evolution.
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