Points Per Day: Windows SMP

[Leonardo]

Gentleman, points per day (PPD) are looking mighty fine for SMP! I STRONGLY consider you trying the new SMP client if you run a dual CPU or dual core machine! (In case you are reading this thread and wonder what "SMP" is, it is Symmetric Multi Processing. What SMP accomplishes for Folding@Home synchronize both cores of a dual core CPU or two CPUs in a dual-CPU computer to work on the same work unit.)

This thread (http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?p=470930#post470930) is the announcement for SMP (beta) and some discussion. Post No. 13 has links for the core and FAHMon monitor files.

The shot below shows my four rigs in my signature and my laptop. The laptop is not running SMP. The other four ARE running SMP.

The first work unit (top of the chart) is 2651 Gromacs SMP; the other three are 2652.
Average time per frame is 19:30.

[Gargoyle]

Before switching to SMP, my Opteron was getting roughly 250ppd doing two Gromacs. Now it's over 600ppd. Don't know if the high points will last after it goes out of beta, but I'll enjoy it while I can :)

Around 32min/frame on my Opteron @ 2475.

Question: does FahMon need time to calculate correct ppd like Electron Microscope does, or is it roughly correct as soon as it loads the log file?

[mirage]

Gentleman, points per day (PPD) are looking mighty fine for SMP! I STRONGLY consider you trying the new SMP client if you run a dual CPU or dual core machine! (In case you are reading this thread and wonder what "SMP" is, it is Symmetric Multi Processing. What SMP accomplishes for Folding@Home synchronize both cores of a dual core CPU or two CPUs in a dual-CPU computer to work on the same work unit.)

This thread (http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?p=470930#post470930) is the announcement for SMP (beta) and some discussion. Post No. 13 has links for the core and FAHMon monitor files.

The shot below shows my four rigs in my signature and my laptop. The laptop is not running SMP. The other four ARE running SMP.

The first work unit (top of the chart) is 2651 Gromacs SMP; the other three are 2652.
Average time per frame is 19:30.

19-20 minutes per frame with 2651 is very good, Leo. I think WinSMP is running better on Intel processors. I do not get this performance with an Opteron-165 running at 2.8 GHz. :( Something like 25 min/frame with P2610. Anyway, good to know.

[SPIKE09]

Almost bang on 1000 PPD running on an E6400 at stock speeds ,16m 31s frametime

[Gargoyle]

Almost bang on 1000 PPD running on an E6400 at stock speeds ,16m 31s frametime
Wow, the client definitely excels on the Core 2 Duo chips!

[edcentric]

What OS are you running?
I want to do this, but I am lazy. What is the easiest route?

[Gargoyle]

Running the Windows SMP client is easy, so if that is what your bottom two rigs in your sig are running, I would go for it. Especially for the E6300.

Just make sure to follow the instructions in the FAQ and in the readme file that comes with the client before you run it. Nothing difficult there, just a couple of important details.

[Leonardo]

Gargoyle, FAHMon needs at least one completed frame before it will accurately estimate ETA and PPD. The estimate will vary based on what other processes (applications) are running on the computer. But that's for new work unit. Once that WU is stored in the benchmarks.dat file, next the WU is processed, it will be estimated before the first frame is completed.

Mirage, as far as comparing Intel PD's with Opterons - keep in mind the wild overclocks I have on my machines - 1000MHz ea on the D930s and 1.2GHz OC on the D915.

[mas0n]

This rocks. I'm getting almost 1300 PPD and churning a frame every 20 minutes on an Opteron 165 @ 2.8GHz

Is it running 4 instances and eating over 200MB for you guys? Thats fine with me if that is what it's supposed to do, I just want to make sure I didn't goof something. :tongue:

:bigggrin: :bigggrin: :bigggrin:

If I try to run as a service I freeze up on boot so It runs in an open command line interface, is there a way to hide that?

[Leonardo]

You aren't doing anything wrong. There posts at Folding-Community.org that state not to run SMP Windows as a service. What you can do is minimize the console window to the taskabar, using TrayIt. If you need the icon completely gone from the computer desktop, I don't know.

[mas0n]

I saw where it stated that the SMP client would not run as a service, but it asked during config, so I figured I might as well try. :D

TrayIt should be fine, I just didn't want my wife to close the window by accident or something. Thanks Leo.

Assuming the massive PPD increase is related to a real productivity increase, this is fantastic.

[EyesOnly]

I don't like beta software but this kind of production seems tempting. Is the client stable?

[Gargoyle]

Is it running 4 instances and eating over 200MB for you guys? Thats fine with me if that is what it's supposed to do, I just want to make sure I didn't goof something. :tongue:

Yup. I was a little concerned that it was taking up so much RAM on my gaming rig, but there's still enough left for me to play without noticeable impact :thumbsup:

I don't like beta software but this kind of production seems tempting. Is the client stable?
Not for everybody, but seems like it has been for most of us.

[EyesOnly]

So is a A64 3800+ or similar among the stable cpus?

[SPIKE09]

X2 3800 would make deadlines on some with an OC it should make them on all, the straight single core 3800 nope sorry, dual or quads only.

[profdlp]

Is it worth it on an HT-capable P4-3.2GHz rig?

The short deadlines are what worry me. :)

[mirage]

Is it worth it on an HT-capable P4-3.2GHz rig?

The short deadlines are what worry me. :)

I am testing on a 3.06HT system (533 FSB) with P2652. It seems like it will make it just 5-6 hours before the deadline (3 days).

[SPIKE09]

I'm guessing a p2610 would fail every time on one of those rigs, even with the e6400 it is taking 40 mins a frame. In fact some folks are reporting slower frametimes with HT on than with it off on dual core HT chips.

[Gargoyle]

Is it worth it on an HT-capable P4-3.2GHz rig?

The short deadlines are what worry me. :)

The Stanford guys don't recommend using the SMP client unless you have two physical cores. They don't advice using HT unless you have two physical cores, and turning on HT would make it appear as four.

Personally, I would stick with that, because they're obtaining information on how the client is performing during this beta period, and they're not expecting people to use single-core HT rigs.

[Sledgehammer70]

My dual Xeon 3.6GHz setup with HT system gets to about 8 frames and crashes and just starts over... has done this 4 times now :(

[EyesOnly]

Thanks for the input. I don't wanna oc but i think i'll give the client a try. If i understand correctly i don't have to remove the other fah clients i have. If so i'll wait a couple of days for the current wus to finish then turn them of and install the smp.

[Gargoyle]

My dual Xeon 3.6GHz setup with HT system gets to about 8 frames and crashes and just starts over... has done this 4 times now :(
Bummer. That rig would probably do pretty well, too :(

[mirage]

My 3.06 Xeon with HT is already at 43% since yesterday. Sledge, can you please tell which WU was crashing?

[Leonardo]

Is the client stable?YES! I pulled in over 4800 points today (so far) on only four computers. I've had NO client crashes or WU failures so far.

Sledge, turn off HT on that Xeon rig. I don't understand why that computer shouldn't be stable.

I'm thinking of running SMP on my E1405 (dual core 1.83GHz) laptop as soon as it finishes a nearly-completed work unit. Will it be powerful enough to meet the deadlines?

[Gargoyle]

I'm thinking of running SMP on my E1405 (dual core 1.83GHz) laptop as soon as it finishes a nearly-completed work unit. Will it be powerful enough to meet the deadlines?

I'll bet so. It sounds like Intels in general and Core2's especially are performing well. I'd give it a shot and see if the frame times look reasonable.

[Leonardo]

give it a shot and see if the frame times look reasonableAt your service. The laptop just completed and uploaded a regular (non-SMP) work unit, so I shut down the Folding client (5.04 console) and loaded Windows SMP. I'll report what is achieved. But in the meantime, check out this outrageous production! This is all from today, 90% from the four computers in my signature. And no, it is NOT a photochop.

[profdlp]

I'm glad you guys waxed my ass last December. At least then it was close enough that I didn't look too feeble when you went by... :(

[Winfrey]

My dual Xeon 3.6GHz setup with HT system gets to about 8 frames and crashes and just starts over... has done this 4 times now :(

I'm having the same problem on my FX-62 rig. The farthest I've gotten on a WU is 38 frames, and then is has an "EARLY UNIT END." I had these occasionally before but I'm on the eighth or ninth WU that has failed in a row.

Any Ideas? I would really like to do SMP to give a boost to ppd, but I don't get any credit for these early ending WUs.

[csimon]

I'm having problems registering mpiexec. It asks for domain/user and password. What are they looking for exactly? Is it login info or what cause I don't use a pass to login. Any help appreciated.

[Leonardo]

Csimon, do you have Microsoft .net framework 2.0 installed? It's necessary for SMP. You might try reinstalling it. Also, turn off any software firewalls and see if that helps.

FreeC - sorry, no clue to your problem. FX62 is dual core, right?

[mas0n]

I remember seeing somewhere while I was setting up the SMP client that it would only work if you had a password on the user account it was to run under.

EDIT: "<i>NOTE: The account under which the client runs MUST have a password. Blank passwords will cause the FAH cores to fail.</i>" from here (http://folding.stanford.edu/FAQ-SMP.html)

I usually don't password my accounts at home so I created one and used Tweak UI to login automatically on boot.

[csimon]

Csimon, do you have Microsoft .net framework 2.0 installed? It's necessary for SMP. You might try reinstalling it. Also, turn off any software firewalls and see if that helps.

FreeC - sorry, no clue to your problem. FX62 is dual core, right?
Yes .net framework 2.0 is installed. Firewalls are off. Don;t know anything about FX62 but I think it's dual core.

I can't even uninstall the SMP client. shucks! How many clients should I run if/when I get it running?

[Leonardo]

Do you have a password set for the account under which SMP will run?

Only one client, which divides the work for a single molecule model between two cores.

[Winfrey]

Ya its dual core, just can't figure out why it keeps ending units early. I'm gonna try re-setting it up to see if it will work.

[Leonardo]

Ya its dual core, just can't figure out why it keeps ending units earlyBad work units (this is beta), or your CPU is overheating.

I'm having some troubles of my own on this laptop. The first WU, a 2652 just sat there, not processing. It just stayed at "Completed 0 out of 500000 steps (0 percent)" for nearly two hours. I assumed it was a bad unit, as the laptop's exhaust wasn't even hot.

This second WU I loaded doesn't seem to be heating the CPU cores either, but Windows Task Manger shows nearly 100% CPU utilization for the WU's four threads. Weird, maybe this just wasn't meant to be on a laptop. Before I loaded this WU, I went into the BIOS and turned of Speed Step, thinking that maybe the CPU went into a power saving mode during the first, failed WU processing.

[lsevald]

p2610 and kentsfield@3.6GHz :wtf:

[mmonnin]

Ugh you guys just added another reason to upgrade, would have to be a complete new machine tho...

[csimon]

I remember seeing somewhere while I was setting up the SMP client that it would only work if you had a password on the user account it was to run under.

EDIT: "<i>NOTE: The account under which the client runs MUST have a password. Blank passwords will cause the FAH cores to fail.</i>" from here (http://folding.stanford.edu/FAQ-SMP.html)

I usually don't password my accounts at home so I created one and used Tweak UI to login automatically on boot.
Thanks I'll try adding the pass and see if that helps ...but I really want to figure out how to uninstall it first. That bugs me that the uninstaller is not working for me.

[csimon]

Do you have a password set for the account under which SMP will run?

Only one client, which divides the work for a single molecule model between two cores.
All I need is one client running? Does it work as a service?

[Gargoyle]

p2610 and kentsfield@3.6GHz :wtf:
That's effing nuts! :eek2:

All I need is one client running? Does it work as a service?

Just one client - it runs four instances of the Folding core and apportions them to your processors. It doesn't work as a service at this time. I've been using TrayIt to stash it in the system tray.

[csimon]

Anyone know the address to the community forum where I could report the uninstall bug?

[SPIKE09]

that would be here
http://forum.folding-community.org/forum60,smp-for-windows-beta.html

[csimon]

that would be here
http://forum.folding-community.org/forum60,smp-for-windows-beta.html
Thanks Spike ...I've posted.

[mirage]

I am in the second position in average daily production today. I might never see this again, so I took a snapshot. See :bigggrin:

[TheGr81]

Excuse me for being kinda off-topic, but how do you get FahMon to show PPD? :confused:

[Gargoyle]

Excuse me for being kinda off-topic, but how do you get FahMon to show PPD? :confused:

It looks like a new version is out (http://fahmon.fahinfo.org/) (2.1.5b.6) that might do it automatically. But what I did for the previous version (http://fahmon.fahinfo.org/archives/2007/03/16/index.html#e2007-03-16T22_05_09.txt) (2.1.5b.5) on that page was have FahMon download the core info, then point to the custom HTML file as directed here (http://fahmon.fahinfo.org/archives/2007/03/18/index.html#e2007-03-18T18_16_07.txt).

[QCH]

Look for qchTEST01 & qchTEST02. That's my AMD 3800+ Athlon 64 X2 running on two instances of the normal F@H. I'll run them for a week then turn them off and run the SMP for a week. We'll see what that produces.

[Gargoyle]

Look for qchTEST01 & qchTEST02. That's my AMD 3800+ Athlon 64 X2 running on two instances of the normal F@H. I'll run them for a week then turn them off and run the SMP for a week. We'll see what that produces.

Good idea :thumbsup:

[csimon]

Well I got the client working fine now thanks to the password/tweakui advice. Still won't uninstall even with community advice so I may be screwed when it comes time to upgrade/update the client.

[Leonardo]

CSimon, try uninstalling with MyUninstaller (http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/myuninst.html), followed by a pass of RegScrubXP (http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=2048) to remove stray registry entries. I use both of these freeware programs frequently. The are both excellent.

[csimon]

CSimon, try uninstalling with MyUninstaller (http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/myuninst.html), followed by a pass of RegScrubXP (http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=2048) to remove stray registry entries. I use both of these freeware programs frequently. The are both excellent.

Thanks Leo ...I've downloaded them both and as soon as I complete my first smp wu I'll try it out.:bigggrin:

[mirage]

Just an update. My 3.06GHz(HT) 533FSB single-core Xeon met the deadline of P2652 and received a P2651 next. Based on the first several frames, it seems like P2651 will also meet the deadline (4 days). P2610 is unknown yet.

[Sledgehammer70]

Mine keeps failing on the Fa1 core... gets to 8 frames and well starts over :( I tired flipping the HT off and still get the same problem...

[Winfrey]

Mine keeps failing on the Fa1 core... gets to 8 frames and well starts over :( I tired flipping the HT off and still get the same problem...

Same thing on my FX cpu, sledge. I reset the SMP from the installer and am about 10 frames away from completing my first WU with SMP. Maybe this will work for you too?

[mirage]

Mine keeps failing on the Fa1 core... gets to 8 frames and well starts over :( I tired flipping the HT off and still get the same problem...

My HT is on and it does not create any trouble. Actually, I think it helps with performance. I initially tend to suspect hardware stability, but you would have noticed this with other applications. There should be something else ... :scratch:

[EyesOnly]

Is 662 PPD usual for 2652. That's what i'm seing in my stats.

[Leonardo]

662PPD usual for what CPU and DRAM configuration? In addition to our stats in this thread, you should also check out SMP production thread (http://forum.folding-community.org/fpost174163.html#174163) at Folding-Community.org.

[csimon]

PPD is way nice!

I stoppped the client and restarted just after this post and lost all 92% of the work. No idea if I got credit so just a headsup warning ...be very careful this is beta.

[EyesOnly]

662PPD usual for what CPU and DRAM configuration? In addition to our stats in this thread, you should also check out SMP production thread (http://forum.folding-community.org/fpost174163.html#174163) at Folding-Community.org.

Will do, thanks for the tip. :)

[bothered]

I have installed SMP and it appears to be running, both cores @100%. FahMon is also working but is not showing any progress after 10 mins, impatience, but my 'old' folding was doing a frame in 10 mins. I'll give it longer and see. I don't like how it minimizes to the taskbar, I'll have to make sure nobody turns it off and I wish it would run as a service. Still, we shall see how it goes, early days.

[Qeldroma]

Looks like a healthy WU, sir bothered. With that new rig you have, it should take about 17 minutes plus or minus some change to do a frame on that project. If isn't going anywhere in about an hour, post the entire fahlog- we'll get you going.

You can try TrayIt (http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail/TrayIt/1146419523/1) if the minimization to the Taskbar troubles you.

[bothered]

The latest suggests about an hour per 1% and it'll miss the final deadline by 3 hours+. It also says there have been 8 improper shutdowns, due to setting up etc, and it is using standard loops so I assume the next one will be quicker?

[Qeldroma]

Maybe. Keep an eye on it- it should settle down. If you're playing any games, that will definitely slow it down- be sure to quit your game before retiring.

That 8 improper shutdowns message isn't worth the pixels it's written on. Don't worry about it.

[SPIKE09]

Yup you got the extra sse boost message, after the message regarding improper shutdown. I still use the -forceasm flag, a holdover from the bad old early beta days of win SMP folding

[Leonardo]

bothered, let me emphasize what some others have written and add a little bit:

* to shut down, ensure you use Ctrl-C
* before shutting down either the client or your computer, copy the contents of the client folder to a client backup folder. the 2653s have actually become quite stable compared to some other units, and compared to what 2653s were previously, but backup is still well advised
* add -forceasm to the startup properties
* if using a wireless adapter for home network connection, turn off all power saving and sleep modes - invocation of reduced state can wreck a WinSMP work unit

WinSMP is leaps and bounds better than it was a few months ago, but it is still a hippo on a highwire - it's a beta that was forced to work with Windows (kudos to the engineers who rigged this!)

[bothered]

One thing has me stumped. If I look in task manager I find these entries. I have looked and searched for FahCore 82 but can't find it! I can right click and stop it but 1 minute later it's running again. I deleted all/most of my 'old' folding stuff, work folder and any exe's I could find, after SMP started running but this one is slowing it down.

[mmonnin]

There is an option to minimize to the system tray.

[bothered]

There is an option to minimize to the system tray.

Sorry mmonnin,I don't understand. The folding that FahCore 82 is doing is from my old folding that I thought I'd deleted when I got SMP running. I'd like it stopped permanently, not minimised.

[SPIKE09]

Was the previous install a service at start up install bothered ?? you may have to some more work than just deleting files if that is the case.

[bothered]

It was. Like I say I can see it in task manager, right click and stop it but it starts right up again. I cannot find it to delete it but I want it to stop. Even clicking search won't find it.

Edit. I have just found a FahCore_82 in C:\windows\prefetch. Can I delete it?

[csimon]

I would remove it as a service first. I mean remove it properly then delete it.

[bothered]

I have disabled it in computer management and it appears to have stopped. My entries in task manager for SMP folding now show more CPU usage. Now maybe my time per frame will go down a little.
Thanks all, I'll keep you informed.

[SPIKE09]

You might want to a look here bothered the fahwiki entry on removing console as a service.
http://fahwiki.net/index.php/How_do_I_uninstall_the_console_client%3F

[bothered]

Cheers, I'll have a look.
Since I disabled it though my time per frame has shot down to 17 mins from 40. Looks like I'm on my way to folding heaven.
Thanks again all.

[bothered]

Woo hoo!
Just got in from work and I've handed a 1700+ pointer in and am a third way through another.
Methinks I like this SMP.

[Leonardo]

Feels good, doesn't it!

[mmonnin]

Sorry mmonnin,I don't understand. The folding that FahCore 82 is doing is from my old folding that I thought I'd deleted when I got SMP running. I'd like it stopped permanently, not minimised.

Oh I was refering to a previous post about using trayit for fahmon. fahmon has an option to minimize itself to the systray.

[shwaip]

my e2140 @3.2ghz is doing project 2653 at 17 mins per frame.

1760/(17*100/60/24) = 1490 ppd :)

[Leonardo]

Very good! Nice performance out of that CPU.

[shwaip]

good ol' $75 cpus :)
Very good! Nice performance out of that CPU.

[Preacher]

Leo et al,
Pardon my ignorance here for a moment and my reviving a dormant thread, but it's been awhile since I was contributing work units to Team 93 and I intend to correct that on my desktop (Opteron 185) and laptop (Core2Duo 2.0GHz). Since both CPUs are dual core, it would seem the best option would be to use the SMP client found here:

http://folding.stanford.edu/English/FAQ-SMP

Other than following that FAQ, installing FahMon and Trayit, is there anything else I should be aware of?
Preacher

[Leonardo]

Ensure you have .Net Framework 2.0 installed. .Net 1.0 is not sufficient. You need 2.0 or higher.

Do not install as a service. There are ways to do that, but I wouldn't recommend it.

I recommend the MPICH version rather than the DEINO.

Set the following flags in the startup icon's properties: -smp -verbosity 9 -forceasm

Do NOT us 'X' out of the open program to close it. Use Ctrl + C.

The Windows SMP client is very sensitive to network connections, specifically network interruptions. The newer version is much improved, but if you have problems with Early Unit Ends (EUE), please let us know right away. The rest of the linked guide looks pretty good.

Thanks for lending power to Team 93 again. We welcome you back with opened arms. Please don't hesitate to report any problems, well, your successes also!

[Preacher]

Thanks, Leo.

I renamed the .exe as the Install Guide suggested, but the program kept crashing when I went to set the "acceptable size" work unit. SO...I tried again without renaming the .exe which worked fine. All parameters were set in the command line ("-smp -verbosity 9 -forceasm") as you recommended.

The Opteron 185 has started up fine and I'm using Trayit to put the icon in the system tray. I do have two questions before I start on the laptop...

1. Do you just put a shortcut to the FaH .exe in your startup folder to have it start automatically along with Windows' start?
2. If an Opteron 185 has two cores and I'm using the SMP MPICH client, why do I have 4 separate FahCore_a1.exes showing up in Windows Task Manager? Is that normal? It would seem logical to have only two.

Preach

[Leonardo]

1. Do you just put a shortcut to the FaH .exe in your startup folder to have it start automatically along with Windows' start?No. My experience, with both D9XX series (65nm Intel dual cores) and Q6600 has been that if you try and start SMP Folding clients before the computer is settled down after Windows start, the work units will crash. Create startup icons. It is very important that that your network connections are stabilized and active before the FAH client starts.I have 4 separate FahCore_a1.exes showing up in Windows Task Manager? Is that normal? Yes.

[Preacher]

I'm assuming you mean create a shortcut when you say "Create startup icons." So I have to start it manually....after the computer starts.

Also, after 30 minutes all I see in the CMD window is:
"Completed 0 out of 250000 steps (0 percent)
Timered checkpoint triggered.
Timered checkpoint triggered."

Is that normal?

[Preacher]

As we say in the Naval Service, "Belay my last, Shipmate!"

It took 37 minutes, but I completed 1% of the WU (2500 of 250,000 steps).

[Leonardo]

At that rate, you will need to run that computer 24/7 to complete work units on time. What's the core frequency of an Opteron 144?

[Preacher]

Leo,
I have an Opteron 185...I though the progress seemed slow...the tech specs are:

Name Opteron 185
Operating Frequency 2.6GHz
Hyper Transports 1000MHz
L1 Cache 128KB+128KB
L2 Cache 2 x 1MB
Manufacturing Tech 90 nm
64 bit Support Yes
Hyper-Transport Support Yes
Virtualization Technology Support No
Multimedia Instruction MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, 3DNOW! Professional


UPDATE: Now when I restart the SMP client, I get the following message and the F@H core shuts down:
"Folding@home Core Shutdown: MISSING_WORK_FILES
Finalizing output
CoreStatus = 1 (1)
Client-core communications error: ERROR 0x1
This is a sign of more serious problems, shutting down.

Any ideas?

[Leonardo]

MISSING_WORK_FILESUnfortunately, that can be a problem with shutting down SMP. Are you closing the client with Ctrl + Alt? If not, you should. I have come into the habit of backing up the Folding client folders before shutting down the computer or restarting. It has saved quite a few thousand points.

Client-core communications error: ERROR 0x1 Take a look in the FoldingForum.org. There are a number of causes for that error. Sorry, I can't remember them all for this thread.

[Preacher]

Leo,
I used the advice found here and got the SMP client working again...I had been using CTRL+ALT, however, someone else in the family very well could have been rebooting.

http://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=4609

I did find out that "CoreStatus = 1 (1)" indicates a EUE error. I'm going to let it run for a day to see what happens.

Is there really a big boost from the SMP client over just running two instances of the normal one?

[Leonardo]

Is there really a big boost from the SMP client over just running two instances of the normal one?Enormous difference. Night and day.

Sorry, I should have written Ctrl+C instead of Ctrl+Alt. With my machines that process that two SMP clients per processor, shutting down or restarting the computer without doing anything - not shutting down the FAH clients at all - works perfectly.