View Full Version : Cheap and Passive system
Enverex
11 Jun 2003, 4:21pm
My current server (k6-2 350) just cant cut it for all the jobs it needs to do, plus the FAN and mobo are going....
So, what I need to know, is what is a decent spec machine I can build that can be passively cooled? i.e. a 600-800mhz machine, Celeron? PIII? Any ideas appreciated. But remember, some parts you may think are easy to find over in the US are alot harder and more expensive to aquire over here.
Cheers,
NS
Aranyic
11 Jun 2003, 4:31pm
What about a mini-itx based systems? They work fairly well for lower end webservers etc. What all does the server need to do?
iv got an amd k6-2 550 and an amd k6-2 475 if you want one.
Enverex
11 Jun 2003, 4:41pm
K6-2 550 isnt much of an upgrade from a K6-2 400, infact its virtually non existstant.
What I am looking for is something that is going to do the following -
WebServer (with PHP)
FTP Server
MySQL Server
File Server
Backup Server
Diagnostic Machine
Shoutcast Server
Mail Server
The 400 just cant cut it, it starts to slow down alot when just carrying out a single operation.
What I want to do is stick with a mATX system as I already have the case, and to stick with SDR as I already have 410MB of it, that is unless some other cheap alternative presents itself.
NS
Aranyic
11 Jun 2003, 4:44pm
How many simultation connections for the shoutcast/webserver are we looking at?
Enverex
11 Jun 2003, 4:49pm
Shoutcast was 2-6, Webserver maybe up to 10.
But the hardware is ancient and the USB doesnt even work in 2000 and no drivers are available (stuck using default).
NS
then get something like a duron 1.3 and the Shuttle AK32. the mobo + the cpu is well under 100 dollars.
Duron 1.3s can run hot, he would need good airflow to keep it cool and a very large heatsink.
NightShade737, you could use a slow 120mm fan to blow some air over the heatsink. They come in various speeds and the lower end ones move a lot of air without being particulary noisy.
Craig
i ran my duron for 2 year's on just a POS heatsink and it was overclocked 1.3@1.44ghz. my temps never went over 130F.
No airflow? Case side off?
Enverex
11 Jun 2003, 5:49pm
Sounds interesting, but remember, quiet is as bad as noisy as it is still sound.
NS
DoM-aL
11 Jun 2003, 6:01pm
Why not spring for a 1700?
CPU-$46
Mobo-$65
Memory (CORSAIR 512MB PC2100)-$60
Total price of $161. It's gonna be a big step up from the k6-2 400, but i dont know if its in your price range. It would certainly last much longer than a duron 1.3. It'd be running on a faster cpu and faster memory, not to mention more. I dont know I'm probably way off here, but what's the budget you want to work with here? $100 for mobo + Cpu? $50 for just the cpu?
the 1700 is nice but when it comes down to price the 1700 is 50 dollars the duron is 30 dollars so it all comes down to how much do you want to spend ?
Aranyic
11 Jun 2003, 6:11pm
lol we seem to be missing the initial request ;).
He's looking for silent. He wants to see if he can go totally passive cooling. No fans what so ever.
go for the 1700 the 256kb of L2 is nice but make shure you get the B core.
DoM-aL
11 Jun 2003, 6:16pm
No fans at all ay? /me scratches chin
Aranyic
11 Jun 2003, 6:18pm
OffTopic:
uh oh...a /me bug.
OnTopic:
Exactly ;). The only thing with decent speed I could think of was the mini-itx @ around 833 mhz (I believe).
Enverex
11 Jun 2003, 6:19pm
<<<<<<<< SSIIIIILLLLEEEENNNTTTTT >>>>>>>>
>.<
Im looking to spend £100 total, notice that is POUNDS not DOLLARS. Which means its more, but remember everything costs alot more over here too.
Would it be possible to passive cool a TB 1700+? And why would I want a B, if im going passive i'm not going to be overclocking it.........
NS
Enverex
11 Jun 2003, 6:22pm
Didnt want to go ITX, as I am not space limited and I may add lots of drives later, I just need relitively fast and very very VERY quiet.
NS
DoM-aL
11 Jun 2003, 6:23pm
I'm guessing B's can withstand heat better.
Aranyic
11 Jun 2003, 6:24pm
How about this board: http://www.viavpsd.com/product/epia_mini_itx_spec.jsp?motherboardId=141
I takes pc133 ram. Board is (that dumb little L thing)65 at http://www.mini-itx.com/store/default.asp?c=2#p2 (the third board, 800mhz fanless).
//edit
At a later time you could just pickup a pci raid card cheap and you'd be able to hook up all the drives you want.
Enverex
11 Jun 2003, 6:25pm
Oh, yeah, and I think they actually run at a step lower (1.65 as opposed to 1.7) or something like that.
NS
Enverex
11 Jun 2003, 6:35pm
Ok, I think I have found the mobo I want - http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?action=c2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=44840
Processor - http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?action=c2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=31299
But what about cooling?
NS
Aranyic
11 Jun 2003, 6:38pm
I'm honestly don't see how you can passively cool a athlon xp though :/.
NightShade737, we have 20 of those VIA ITX machine in operation as small web and file servers. They do work fairly well, and would be a improvement over your 400 machine. The only consideration is shoutcase, but at only a couple users it should handle it.
We use the 800 proc, single 512 unbuffered DDR ram, and a current EIDE HDD and they work surprizing well. They do make a 1 gig machine now i believe.
The entire lot draws about 5 amps and has very very very little noise. The PSU units for those machines are external and fanless. Swap the CPU HSF out for a larger chunk of metal and you would have something that only generates drive noise. But as it sits, they are super quiet.
Otherwise, I would go with a standard p4, celeron, or for amd we use a HSF based off a slightly larger chunk of aluminum, 80mm adapter, and slient style case fan. These would be fairly quiet given you use a large case with no case fans.
AFAIK, these are your only options.
Enverex
11 Jun 2003, 6:41pm
Ok, if we drop passive (because this server currently isnt passive, when its quiet its ok, but the fan is going as well now >.<), how quiet do you think we can go?
NS
2 cents,
I can passivly cool a dual xeon, but the case fan noise required would drive you insane ;)
Clutch
11 Jun 2003, 6:45pm
Ok, so if you drop the passive idea, and go with say a 1700+ you can go quite, get a Panaflo for the hs/f which is a low 28dba, the same could go with your case fans, if any, maybe one exhaust in the rear. What type of case are you looking at?
Originally posted by NightShade737
<<<<<<<< SSIIIIILLLLEEEENNNTTTTT >>>>>>>>
Would it be possible to passive cool a TB 1700+? And why would I want a B, if im going passive i'm not going to be overclocking it.........
yes you could passive cool a 1700 B. you want a 1700 B core because they run cooler because of less voltage and you and overclock then to like 2.2ghz easy.
The retail intel fans are quiet. Also, you can find compairable HSF's for AMD.
Use a PSU without alot of fans, and a fairly large case and you can skips fans in it aswell.
I've been building 2.0 cele's for one of my clients here, and they are reasonably quiet with retail HSF, single PSU fan, and no case fans.
You don't get much quieter without running a risk of overheat under load. The only way I can think of might be a temperature sensor controller, on a quiet fan, bringing the noise down some under idle conditions
Enverex
11 Jun 2003, 6:59pm
The case is one of those old "Time Computer" ones.
The PSU isnt passive btw so thats sucking air out.
I dont want to go ITX because this machine isnt just going to sit on a shelf, it may end up with lots of drives (HD, CD and maybe even a SCSI array for Fun) so ITX is out of the question.
The case is attached but it only has 2 - 5 1/2" bays, not 3.
No exhaust fan slot, but one intake.
NS
just get the biggest heatsink you can find.
Clutch
11 Jun 2003, 7:03pm
With no exhaust fan spot, you know what that means....dremel time baby, hehe :)
How many 3.5" bays you got internal? Seems like things will get pretty tight in their, if you start adding a lot of hard drives and stuff.
Enverex
11 Jun 2003, 7:07pm
3, but I can just stack them on the bottom.
Does this look quiet to you? - http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?action=c2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=34834
NS
looks like a stock heatsink
Enverex
11 Jun 2003, 7:13pm
Ok, but does anyone have any opinions or ideas what its like?
This could be useful, alterable - http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?action=c2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=43374
NS
its going to be like 20ish db. but when its in your case your not going to hear it.
Clutch
11 Jun 2003, 7:27pm
Should be okay for what your going to be using it as. Since this isn't going to be a gaming or oc rig it should do you fine.
So use that heatsink with a 1700 and a cheap mobo you your going to be good.
Enverex
11 Jun 2003, 7:43pm
The current parts are actually -
http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?action=c2VsZWN0X3Byb2R1Y3Rfb3ZlcnZpZXc=&product_uid=44840
http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?action=c2VsZWN0X3Byb2R1Y3Rfb3ZlcnZpZXc=&product_uid=31299
http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?action=c2VsZWN0X3Byb2R1Y3Rfb3ZlcnZpZXc=&product_uid=43374
All set to Order. Opinions?
NS
Clutch
11 Jun 2003, 8:05pm
Looks good to me, what made you go with the 2000+?
Enverex
11 Jun 2003, 8:09pm
It was about £5 more expensive than the 1700+ :p
NS
Clutch
11 Jun 2003, 8:13pm
Oh, I see :) well looks like your set to go. I wish you nothing but good luck with getting all your parts in and getting your new server up. Came a long way in this thread, from a passive system, to a pretty darn good system for the money, as well as a huge upgrade from your old server.
Originally posted by NightShade737
It was about £5 more expensive than the 1700+ :p
NS
ok well the 1700 is a better cpu
Enverex
11 Jun 2003, 8:31pm
Originally posted by matt
ok well the 1700 is a better cpu
Why?
NS
well if your not going to overclock then go with the 2000+ but if you want to overclock even a little then go with the 1700+ i bet that the 1700+ will run 2000+ at stock vcore.
Enverex
11 Jun 2003, 8:41pm
Well I am intending on dropping the VCore to start with anyway, and secondly, I highly doubt it will be a B core anyway.
NS
Originally posted by NightShade737
Well I am intending on dropping the VCore to start with anyway, and secondly, I highly doubt it will be a B core anyway.
NS
just go with the 2000+ i dont see you overclocking any time soon.
Clutch
11 Jun 2003, 9:04pm
I wouldn't even oc with this system anyway. your airflow isn't going to be the best for overclocking, and you will be dropping the vcore like you said.
1700+ you want a B core because they coe in lower voltages, as low as 1.5 volts, try to get something with a heat pipe maybe, this acts as a small pahse chnage systemn and should allow you to cool effectively and without the need of a fan a bigger heatsink is better, try to get the biggest possible, all copper heat sink you can, you could possibly even lower the voltage and maybe downclock it a little if, voltage decrease will make biggest diffference to temp, maybe try to get a mobile processor, these require even less voltage
20% increase in voltage is about a 50% increase in heat (in watts)
Craig
Enverex
11 Jun 2003, 9:28pm
Originally posted by CCW
a small pahse chnage systemn
rofl, that just made me laugh, like you suddely started falling asleep then woke up again as you were typing :rolleyes:
Anyway, it is done....
----------------------------------
Dear Ben Hodgetts,
This email is to acknowledge placement of order number 1116284.
You have ordered the following items:
Item: Crucial PC2100 512mb DDR 184pin DIMM
Qty: 1
Cost: 39.99
Item: AMD ATHLON XP2000+ 266MHz FSB Thoroughbred - OEM
Qty: 1
Cost: 39.36
Item: Coolermaster HAC-V81 XDream Heatsink & Fan SKT A Upto Xp2800 Speed Adjustment
Qty: 1
Cost: 7.30
Item: Asus A7N266-VM-SE Skt A MATX Sound Lan
Qty: 1
Cost: 36.30
-------------------------------
The ASUS has a GF2 built in btw, its an nForce board.
B-Types are hard to find over here, and the companies that specifically sell them charge more for them anyway, which isnt nice.
Arrival Date - Friday!
Time to take a trip to EBayville.........
NS
DoM-aL
11 Jun 2003, 9:35pm
I dont know what i would do if i lived in the uk... i couldn't use newegg... ah that would be hell.
www.newegg.com is like my leg I have to have it.
Enverex
11 Jun 2003, 11:59pm
EBuyer is like our NewEgg and now its available in the US, so why the hell isnt NewEgg available over here >.<
Need more cheap shops. Most the time you have to buy stuff from differerent place, incuring like £30 just in postage.
NS
Enverex
14 Jun 2003, 2:51pm
Well, it seems like cooling wont be a problem. The server is about 45-47'c Idle and 51'c under medium load in a hot room.
NS
PyobliE
2 Jul 2003, 1:49pm
I got me an XP2000 with a coolermaster 'silent' CPU, and it is silent, u cant hear it at all when its in the case. The Xdream should do you fine, I assume it can go as quite as mine.
Originally posted by NightShade737
rofl, that just made me laugh, like you suddely started falling asleep then woke up again as you were typing :rolleyes:
Why, whats wrong with what I said?
Craig
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