View Full Version : Problem...please help.
Hi Guys.
Since yesterday i have been having a problem with my PC. The problem started out of the blue and for some reason my PC has slowed down to a crawl.
Basically whenever i run almost any kind of program, even mirc my whole system bogs down, and even my mouse pointer jerks when i move it across the desktop. If i look at my CPU usage it is very eratic, going from 0 to 100% and back again constantly. I had figured that there might be a windows problem and restored my ghost image to see if it would fix it, but the problem remains. I also checked my temps with asus prob and they are fine, and i ran MEMtest to see if there was a problem with my RAM, but that is also fine.
If there is anyone who can help me with this problem i would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.
Oh, BTW my specs are:
XP 1800+ cpu
ASUS A7V333 M/B
512 MB corsair XMS 2700 RAM
WD1200JB HDD
WD800JB HDD
Liteon DVD ROM
Pioner A06 DVD-RW
Thats about it. TIA
First step would be to look at your processes and see which one is using 100%.
TheBaron
6 Aug 2003, 7:49pm
i recently encountered a piece of ad/porn software calling itself kernel32.dlI (not .dll) that would spontaneously eat up all system resources. like he said, look at the task manager to see whats using all the resources (first sort by mem usage, then next by CPU usage, close things that aren't essential) see if you can fix it that way. if it IS a piece of software, run an antivirus scan and something like Ad-Aware
Thanks for the replies:)
Ok, i have ran both norton antivirus and adaware but nothing comes up. And the thing is that ive just restored a perfectly good ghost image and it's still doing the same thing which is leading me to believe that there is obviously some kind of hardware problem.
The process which is using 100% is always any program which i am running at the time, as i said before, even mirc uses almost 100% when i fire it up.
I'm just about to format my drive and re-install the old fashioned way to see if that will make any difference:(
TheBaron
6 Aug 2003, 8:36pm
what are your temps like? i'm thinking maybe temp throttling is on cause your CPU is too hot, or i could be completely offbase. as things stand, i dont see how a format and reinstall could hurt
My temps are fine:( 42 degrees right now.
I'll get around to reinstalling tomorrow and let you know if it helps. To tell you the truth i'm a lazy bastid, and i just can't be arsed right now:)
Thanks again:)
A dead/dieing HDD can create unusual system loads and erratic behavior. Stress the HDD subsystem and see if it pukes.
Also, same for bad cables.
really, thats about all thats left. Only thing after checking temps, hdd, ram, and system processes would be to start swaping components. I highly highly doubt a mobo failure, but somethings oviously wrong.
Oh dear. Not another one dying...please no. I have had 3 drives die on me in the last year already, all of them have startd with the letters WD and ended in JB
Well i just benched the drive, and the results are pretty conclusive. It's not working. Have a look at the attached image to see what i mean.
:mad:
I'm going to switch cables and see if it helps.
Same result with new cables.
Well, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I had a feeling it was drive related.
I had a batch of WD JB's fail, 10 drives all died within weeks of being put into service. I'm seeing dieing Maxtors too, so the grass isn't always greener on the other side.
The drives that have lasted the longest are the old IBM deathstars. We've got probably 50 of them in service for the last year. HeH, those were the ones I expected to fail ;)
Well, acually there is a _slight_ possibility of a bad mobo, and the controller is fubar. Odd's are it is the drive, but I wanted to add there is a chance something on the board is bad.
I think swaping out that drive will restore your performance.
AMD Fan
7 Aug 2003, 2:08am
I have had bad luck with IBM drives specifically Deskstar 40gig
75 GXP drives. I now have Western Digital 80gig Caviar drives
with 8mb cache and have had no problems at all in raid O. All
companies have problems with drives from time to time. I think
if you ask around you can find a better/reliable model regardless
of whom made it. Not all Toyota's are good but most are great
if you get what I mean.
Thanks a lot for the replies:)
I formatted the drive this morning when i woke up and reinstalled all of my drivers and also all of the apps that i use frequently and then tested again with ATTO. The results seem to be back to normal now.
I may be going out on a limb here, but i was thinking that maybe the DVD writer i had die on me the other day might have corrupted the drive to the extent that a ghost image wouldn't help. Is that at all possible?
Here are the results.
Thanks again for the help so far:)
TheBaron
7 Aug 2003, 2:41pm
holy crap thats a big difference... looks like you fixed your problem
Well, it's gone back to 4mb/s again:(. Looks like the drive is screwed.
Its not uncommon for dieing drives to have bursts of life. Its what saves my ass in a failure and no backups ;)
But, I still wouldn't rule out other possibilitys, but that would be the first component I swaped out.
This is getting stranger and stranger. The drive finally drew it's last breath yesterdayand as it was only 1 month or so old i returned it to the store immediately for a replacement drive.
On returning home i promptly installed the drive and set it up accordingly and all seemed to be well again. When i woke up this morning my system had frozen so i hit the reset button to restart it to continue a file i was downloading. When the PC tried to reset i heard the drive spin up...click...spin up....click...spin up...click and so on, so i reset again with the same result.
I then decided to remove my secondary ide cable so that only that drive was connected and tried to boot and it booted without a hitch.
I then decided to connect my other drives back up again to see if i could recreate the problem again, but it booted anyway.
WTH is going on with my PC? Any ideas?
Thanks in advance again
:confused:
AMD Fan
9 Aug 2003, 11:17am
Please tell us about the hardware in your system. Like what
you have and how it is hooked up in relation to hardrive. Also
what kind of power supply is in the system?
my specs are:
XP 1800+ cpu
ASUS A7V333 M/B
512 MB corsair XMS 2700 RAM
WD1200JB HDD
WD800JB HDD
Liteon DVD ROM
Pioner A06 DVD-RW
350 watt PSU
If you need to know anything else just ask.
Geeky1
10 Aug 2003, 6:39am
I skimmed thru the thread, so I may have missed it, but what brand of PSU are you using? The fact that the replacement drive refused to spin up, the old drive died, and you had a DVD burner die all within a short period of time implies one thing to me: bad power supply. If it's a generic unit, chuck it, burn it, smash it, blow it up, give it away, whatever- but generic power supplies aren't worth sh!t anymore. They were fine when the P3 was cutting edge, but the P4s, Athlons, and to a lesser extent the Tualatin P3s all REQUIRE a decent power supply. Generic units generally can't cut it anymore. Now, that's not true in all cases, I mean most (non-computer literate) people would consider an AMD cpu a genric cpu... but for the most part, there are only two brands that I would recommend without hesitation (Antec and PC Power & Cooling) and a number of others that are worth considering (basically anything on the AMD Approved Power Supply Vendor list should be decent)
but yea, if you're running all that on a generic ps, that could very well be your problem.
Originally posted by Geeky1
I skimmed thru the thread, so I may have missed it, but what brand of PSU are you using? The fact that the replacement drive refused to spin up, the old drive died, and you had a DVD burner die all within a short period of time implies one thing to me: bad power supply. If it's a generic unit, chuck it, burn it, smash it, blow it up, give it away, whatever- but generic power supplies aren't worth sh!t anymore. They were fine when the P3 was cutting edge, but the P4s, Athlons, and to a lesser extent the Tualatin P3s all REQUIRE a decent power supply. Generic units generally can't cut it anymore. Now, that's not true in all cases, I mean most (non-computer literate) people would consider an AMD cpu a genric cpu... but for the most part, there are only two brands that I would recommend without hesitation (Antec and PC Power & Cooling) and a number of others that are worth considering (basically anything on the AMD Approved Power Supply Vendor list should be decent)
but yea, if you're running all that on a generic ps, that could very well be your problem. Well the problem has resorted back to exactly the way it was with the drive that i've just had replaced. It's started clicking away again and crashing, and my hdd transfer speeds have gone back to 3 to 4 MB/sec.
Could a faulty power supply really cause a problem like this? I mean, this drive is only 2 weeks or so old and it's gone exactly the same way as the old one i had, so i have to believe that the problem does not lie with the drives.
Weak PSU, improper voltage levels, power line fluctuations, and improper cooling can all cause problems for drives.
Geeky1
16 Aug 2003, 11:01pm
RMF; a bad power supply can easily cause problems like this, as can heat. You'd better check both. What brand of power supply are you using? What size is it? and what is your cooling setup?
My CPU temp is currently at 47 degrees at the moment and my mobo is at 38 according to asus probe. That seems to be the standard for me as it's always been somewhere around those temps no matter which cooler i've had in the whole history of the time that i've owned this CPU, which is currently being cooled with a coolermaster X-Dream.
I'm using a 350 watt PSU. I can't tell which brand at the moment, i'd have to take it out and have a look. I'll do it in the morning when my download is done.
Black Hawk
17 Aug 2003, 12:43am
Your last resort would be a new PSU and I suggest you don't go cheap on them. They can easily phuck up your system. Go with well known brands like Antec, Enermax and other stuff that most people use.
Geeky1
17 Aug 2003, 1:04am
RMF, ok... the cpu cooler is fine, but what about case fans? the cpu cooler (obviously) won't do anything for the drive, and 7200rpm drives get hot enough to need some airflow...
Black Hawk
17 Aug 2003, 1:05am
I don't think the cooling is the problem. I have 2x WD's stacked together with a case temp of 48°C and they have been running fine for months.
Geeky1
17 Aug 2003, 1:07am
blackhawk, most likely it's the ps, however that kind of setup is far from ideal and not recommended at all. You may be faced with a drive failure or two of your own within a year or two of you don't start cooling those things properly.
Black Hawk
17 Aug 2003, 1:10am
Probably but by the time they die I would already need a new one. Gotta have more space for "bible music" :D
I have a really nice case. It's a coolermaster ATC-210-VX2 which has an intake and an out-take fan, and the drives have never felt overly hot. So i don't think that heat is the problem.
Geeky1
17 Aug 2003, 2:01am
yea; in that case if the drive is mounted in front of the intake fan, it's not heat-related. It's most likely a power supply issue...
//Edit
Say Blackhawk, I've got at least 500gb of space I could store a backup copy on for you... after all, we wouldn't want the RIAA coming after you, now would we? ;) :D
Black Hawk
17 Aug 2003, 2:57am
Bah! Took alot of time to get mine. Lots of lan parties, FTP's and waiting in queued on DC and Kazaa. Get your own :p
Originally posted by Geeky1
yea; in that case if the drive is mounted in front of the intake fan, it's not heat-related. It's most likely a power supply issue...
What would be the reason for the drives working correctly for a short period of time then after i had either had it replaced or had simply formatted it? As it stands right now, i am completely unable to boot the pc unless my lights are off and my other drives are unplugged. Only the HDD can be plugged in at this point, but it's still not working properly. At least it doesn't click when it's in on it's own though.
Black Hawk
17 Aug 2003, 9:46am
If you have to turn off the lights and other drives it's cause of your PSU. It's either not giving enough juice or it's dieing.
Yeah i figured as much, but why would a format help the drive for a short period of time? And do you think that my drive will be screwed now and need replacing again?
Black Hawk
17 Aug 2003, 10:05am
As for the format, I don't know. I think you should wait changing the HDD till you get a new PSU and try it out.
Originally posted by Black Hawk
As for the format, I don't know. I think you should wait changing the HDD till you get a new PSU and try it out. I will do. Thanks for the help guys.
imported_TekGamer
19 Aug 2003, 6:03pm
click n spin it the read write heads getting stuck near the center of the disk...
The issue with your first drive was probably dma channeling issues.
As windows encounters errors writing to disk, it downgrades the dma channel settings, sometimes to the point of total crap performance. I have had via 4 in 1 drivers cause the same issues.
thats just my .02
Tek
I just got hold of a new 400W PSU and the problem seems to have been resolved. I have all of my drives connected up and my lights on and all is well. My drives aren't having problems spinning up anymore and are reading and writing at just over 50 MB/S.
Thanks for the help guys, i would never have known it was a power problem, and would have just kept on returning my drives to the store i bought them from.LOL:p
Ok, i really really wanted to believe that this was a PSU problem, but unfortunately the problem has returned again. I just can't understand why drive after drive that i get goes exactly the same way...click...spin up...click spin up....aaarrrggghhh.
Does anybody have any other idea on what might be causing my problems? As i am certain that it is not down to my drives.
TIA
Board? IDE cable? Cooling?
Geeky it's none of those. My cables have all been changed and this problem has spanned every other component in my pc including the motherboard. That's why i can't understand it. It can also happen when my case is open so it's definetely not the cooling>
So you've changed the motherboard out then?
Yeah mate. Returned it and swapped for a new one. Still didn't help.
Geeky1
7 Sep 2003, 12:34am
So, does the drive work with the new PS when all the lights and stuff are off/unplugged?
What brand is the PS you got ahold of?
It's a 400W enermax. The drives still do the same thing with all of my other drives unplugged and my lights out with the case open, and even if i only have my main drive connected up. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't happen constantly, it's completely random. Sometimes my system will be alright for a few weeks and then all of a sudden it will happen, and then it just repeats untill i eventually get the BSOD. The other night i got the blue screen and then the drive wouldn't spin up at all and my bios wouldn't see it, then all of a sudden it worked fine again. Very very strange. The problem is that it seems to be getting worse.
Well, I'm basically totally stumped and w/o being able to take a look @ it, all I can do is make a list of things to try (all of which you may have already tried...)
In order of things to try/retry:
<ol>
<li>Replace the CMOS battery. Why? Because I'm out of ideas, it's like $2, and you never know...
<li>Disconnect all drives but the problem drive (both power and data connections) and see if it still acts up. If it DOESN'T, go to Step 3. If it DOES, go to step 3.
<li>Check the jumpers on all your IDE devices- 1 master, 1 slave per channel. Make the hard drive(s) the master device(s), with the fastest optical drive as the secondary master (or secondary slave if you have more than 1 hard drive) and any other drive as the primary slave. If this doesn't fix it, go to step 4.
<li>Replace all the IDE cables with KNOWN GOOD cables. Go out and buy them if you have to- rounded IDE cables improve airflow and aren't all that expensive anyhow. The Antec Cobra Cables are probably the best on the market (they're like $12 each...). Plug all the drives in again and see what happens. If it still acts up, go to step 5.
<li>Take everything out of the case and put it on a non-conductive surface- basically, assemble the computer on a sheet of plywood, a desktop, whatever- just make sure it's non-conductive. If the motherboard is on a removeable motherboard tray, take it off. You should literally have everything but the case, case speaker/buzzer, and the LEDs out of the case. Taking out the buttons for power and reset would be helpful, but isn't necessary. Basically, the computer should be hooked up as if it were in a case, but spread out on a piece of wood, a desk, or whatever... I suggest either the wood or the edge of a desk, so you can plug cards into the motherboard and have them properly seated. If the board is sitting on a surface, and there's no indentation for the cards, you won't be able to properly seat the cards, which could further bork the system. If the system is stable outside the case, the issue is either heat-related or something is shorting out. If the system STILL doesn't work properly, go to step 6.
<li>Start removing stuff- start by replacing the RAM with known-good stuff. If that doesn't work, start taking out any PCI cards, one at a time, and seeing if it still acts up. If it suddenly starts working properly when a card that had been in it is removed, it's that card that's probably the culprit. If it's still acting up, change the CPU for a known-good one, and if it's STILL acting up, change the video card, followed by the motherboard. If none of this works, go to step 7.
<li>If nothing up until now has worked, try another power supply (like a 3rd one- not the enermax or the old one).
<li>Finally, if that doesn't work, start disconnecting the drives again (one at a time), leaving the problem drive connected.
</ol>
<ol>
If, after all that, it's still acting up, do the following:
<li>Curse- the more profane, the better. Be as loud as possible. Preferably with the windows open. Make sure the neighbors can hear you- use a bullhorn if necessary.
<li>Call the hard drive manufacturer and curse @ the support person. See line 1 for details.
<li>Break stuff- but just the dead hard drive for now. A sledgehammer or large car may be useful/necessary.
<li>Curse more. See guidelines in line 1 for detailed instructions.
<li>Post here about how pissed off you are that you can't get it working. Curse, but bleep it out.
<li>Curse more. See guidelines in step 1 for detailed instructions.
<li>Post at www.short-media.com about how pissed off you are that you can't get it working. Curse, but bleep it out.
<li>Curse more. See guidelines in step 1 for detailed instructions.
<li>Call the motherboard manufacturer and curse @ the support person. See line 1 for details.
<li>Tell the police (you're neighbors will probably have called them by this time...) it's a computer problem. They should leave it at that.
<li>Break more stuff- time to move on to the motherboard.
<li>More cursing. See step 1 for instructions.
<li>Post pictures of broken board, hard drive here and at Short-Media.
<li>Curse more. Make it interesting- see if you can imitate someone with Tourette's Syndrome. Walk around the neighborhood muttering to yourself, occasionally yelling obscenities at people while pretending to have a spasm.
<li>Call back hard drive manufacturer. Use the bullhorn this time.
<li>Break the remaining parts of your computer while cursing @ it at the top of your lungs.
<li>Log onto www.newegg.com using a friend's computer for some Shopping Therapy.
<li>Have a nice day
</ol>
:D
AMD Fan
7 Sep 2003, 3:09am
Try memtest86 ?
Yeah i've tried memtest mate :( Basically as i said before, this problem has spanned every piece of hardware (apart from my CPU) that's in my pc. Even the drives are new, but the problem still persists. That's what i can't understand. For all intents and purposes this is an entirely new PC. New mobo, new ram, new PSU, new drives (including HDD's), new cables, but it still happens :(
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