Revolutions Theory Chat ///SPOILERS

[Camman]

Just a fair warning, I was a bit confused after revolutions, wanted to have some matrix theory chat with some people who had actually seen the movie, so dont look at this if you haven't seen it yet and don't want it ruined.








































So, that aside (posted way down here so people who clicked it by accident wouldnt ruin it for themselves)


Now, this is what I THINK happened, please enlighten me if you agree or think otherwise, the movie to me is still quite complex but I think I figured it out.

Now, It seems to me that the Oracle was the one who created smith and/or gave him all his power. She knew that on their own, the humans and the machines would not come to peace with each other, so she had to create a power capable of destroying both and could only be defeated through peace between the machines and the humans. Thus, Neo and Smith are really the "equation" that is trying to balance itself, and by Neo allowing Smith to destroy him, he allowed the equation to be balanced and Smith no longer had purpose, and thus was destroyed. Also, when the architect says at the end "thats a dangerous game to play" , seems to tie into this whole idea.

Anyone think the same?

[GnomeWizardd]

I havent seen it but atleast i know what to look for!

[TheBaron]

smith and neo were originally part of the balanced equation, both created by the oracle - in a sense, she doesn't CREATE the one, she just created him in a sense, allowing his existence. the unbalancing of the equation, i would assume, happens when she gives the one a different purpose : love of one vs. love of humanity.

i dont want to type anymore
i think you're right

and i ****ing LOVED that movie. ****

[Thrax]

A = Good.
B = Evil.

Equal sign is the Oracle.

A = B.

The Oracle is the ultimate arbitrator between Smith's good and Neo's evil.

Remember now that Smith is in the Matrix, Neo's fighting of Smith is in the Matrix, and the Oracle is the archetype of balance inside the Matrix.

When Smith absorbed the Oracle, the balancing was absorbed. The "Computers" of the Matrix had an answer with no equation. It was B, with no =. So what were we left with? AB. The primary function of the Matrix is to balance the equation, and what the hell is good times evil anyways? So you divide by A! But it's mathematics, but there's no damn equal sign for the A to go to. It can't divide on both sides of the equation, just one. B cancels A by absorbing it. B as a VERY complex mathematical function is programmed to believe it is the solution. So it takes A.

What's left? B. Evil.

As a computer, an entire program with just a solution and no equation is something a computer does not like B = ��? Pfft. Bloody right.... No computer accepts infinity as an answer. The computer will choke on itself and die. So let us say we started to have a cascading error, compounding upon itself. In the interrim, the final answer of B was all-powerful within the constructs of the Matrix as it was representative of the whole. The totality of the Matrix. But the primary function of the Matrix is to have A = B.

So what happens when evil gets rid of good? In an allusion to Jungian philosophy, good springs up in other areas. The whole damn Matrix crashes and reboots.

What's left inside the puddle at the end? The Oracle. The balance. The oneness of both good and evil, the one responsible for balancing good and evil. A once again equals B.

As the Matrix is core logic of the machinery, it has been established that both are very closely linked. Programs can get into the real world, and real world can get into the Matrix. Neato.

So the machines reboot too. Remember the default design of machinery? To serve humanity. They were created by humans, and <b>only</b> by errant, evolutionary AI did they go astray. So the Matrix reboots, and the Machines reboot to a restore point, let us say. Machines go back to serving humanity, thus their leaving. The Matrix reboots to a point where good equals evil, and when such is the case there is no chaos, there is no destruction. There is perfect balance. The Matrix is restored, with a minor change. In order to balance good and evil, programs + real people must be able to come and go from the Matrix at will. No forcing people, which inherently goes against the balancing equation. Even machines are capable of making wrong errors.

Neo is not dead. He cannot be. He has come back from being dead before, and his death inside the Matrix != death in the real world. Neo is, in effect, the Jesus Christ. Even being physically killed, he still lives, and if going by the Bible, he is set to return.

Agent Smith was eventually defeated by his own design. He is, at heart, a program. Simple mathematics, although it may be added to greatly (IE: Trig, calc, etcetera.), can never be broken by these advanced forms. There must always be a solution and an equation. Math does not accept choice...It just is. So when Smith absorbs Neo, he violates simple mathematics. When Neo chooses to fight, the equation cannot be modified for that. The Smith program crashes.

The Architect? What real purpose does he serve? It's hard to determine. Is he always represented in the equal sign? It might make sense. He is God, and the Oracle is Mary. Together they created Neo, the one, Jesus. Mary is the worldly reason, worldly balance. God is the total power, good and evil in one. Through the Oracle and her free will, the powers of the architect as a god are expressed. These expressions are not directly as the architect intended, as the Oracle is neither a program, nor a human. Nor is the architect. They are both, I would venture to say...Outside users? The core of the machine world? The core logic? Together they govern both fields of existence, which would tie directly into their ability to modify both.

God it's late, and I'm tired. But holy crap, does this make sense?

[Camman]

I remember in the first Matrix a specific line about a man being born inside the matrix who could change whatever he see fit....I still do not understand who that is or what it means, is this the architect?

[Mancabus]

Thrax. One thing you forgot to deal with was the little girl. I forget what she was called at the end, but I think she is the result of a different equation similar to yours Thrax. This time it would be A/B = C. Smith would be A, Neo would be B, Oracle would be /, and the little girl is C. The architect would be the =.

Also:
Architect = Creator of Machine World
Oracle = Rebelious Lead programmer for Matrix
Neo = Virus
Smith = Old Overseer Program turned Virus
Girl = New Overseer Program

What you would want the result to be is 1=1 so A/B = 1 and C =1, this equation is balanced. Balance = Peace = Order. And to achieve peace 2 things had to be true: C can't be anything but 1, and the Oracle had to make A = B, thus making them 1, and equal to C. But C didn't exist until it was neccessary

So this is the original equation: A = B.
The Matrix:
In the beginning the equation was unbalanced. A > B, so A != B. When B became aware of it's purpose, guided by the oracle, and the equation didn't change but now A < B.

The Matrix, Reloaded:
The equation is still unbalanced, but is gradually getting closer to being balanced probably due to new developments, mainly Smith coming back and learning how to replicate as he was infected with a part of Neo (The whole "Human beings are a virus" thing). This made him aware of what Neo would be capable of, think of it as Neo being a new input parameter into the program(Smith). But he is still too weak to challenge Neo as he hasn't completely tested this new parameter yet.

The Matrix Revolutions:
Smith has almost completely mastered the new parameter, as represented by him taking over Bane and entering the "Real" world. But Neo is getting closer to full power, represented by him stopping the Squiddies. The equation is getting closer to being balanced but still A < B.

Here is when the equation needed a change, and this was done by the Architect and the Oracle working together. Because Neo chose not to go to the source, the Architect had to come up with a new equation.

The new Equation is A/B = C.

This is why the Oracle sacrifices her "vision", as the Maravingian expressed it, to Smith, because she knew it would get the new equation closer to being balanced. The Oracle wasn't completely gone from Smith, represented by him knowing of what was supposed to happen at the end of the final battle between he and Neo. Neo also knew that this was the answer and that is why he had to let Smith absorb him.

Now here is where the Architect comes in. He represents the creator of the machine world, and is in control of what drives the Matrix. He is not too fond of Smith messing things up and eventually is what gives Neo that extra boost at the end that sent the wave of destruction through all the Smiths, as he just wants rid of Smith. The Architect had realized that because of how out of hand Smith was becoming he needed to have something new to oversee the Matrix, so he and the Oracle created the little girl.

So the Oracle and the Architect forcefully had to work together so the new equation could be balanced out, and order could be restored to the Matrix.

The little girl only came about after the need was there to restore order to the Matrix. The other result is the new order between the machines and the humans.

So in conclusion:

The Architect created the Machine world, but needed the Oracle to create a program that gave an interface with the humans. The Neo Virus was detected by the Overseer Program Smith. Smith became infected by the Neo Virus which made him into a new variant which later infected all the human batteries with the new Smith Virus. Working with the Oracle, the Architect created a new Overseer Program that would be equal in strength to the Neo Virus, but only after the Neo Virus became equal to the Smith Virus. The Oracle, probably the greatest programmer ever, placed a representation of herself into the Smith Virus to make it equal to the Neo Virus. Then when the equation finally became balanced, order was restored to the Matrix.

Yikes. I hope some of you can see my thinking.

[Cyclonite]

My head hurts...

[maxanon]

Waay too much math, even for a number junkie like me. I'll try to keep it short:

The girl was called the last exile, or last program to enter the matrix. Neo, knowing that the Smith gets more powerful the more it battles him, kinda overloads him with the help of the central comp. Since the Smith is temporarily linked to the thing that he absorbs, the central computer has the opportunity to destroy Smith.

I think the Architect dislikes humans and created the Smith the counteract the Oracle's Neo. I think the moral of the whole thing is that peace is in the hands of the humans, since computers don't go back on their word.

A couple of things that I don't understand:

1) Why did they unjack neo in the beginning since he was unjacked to begin with?

2) If they can supply EMPs on ships, why can't the humans have one one land?

And a couple of ponderings:

1) What next? Do the humans go to the surface? Is it safe?

2) Would you leave the matrix to live like the humans do? Since the computers will be giving the "jacked" humans a choice and they need to have humans to keep power what kind of incentives will there be to keep humans jacked?

3) Is the Indian girl the next Neo? She can cause sunrises? Or she some other tool of the Oracle?


The movie kicked a** and I can't wait for the boxed set.
Max.

[Keebler]

I think they unjacked Neo because they got him out of limbo, then jacked him in to go back into the Matrix... maybe? :scratch:

EMPs can be on land, but they'd wipe out the rest of the defenses so they aren't very effective that way.

I don't think the little girl has an important role in the film. She was just chillin' with the Oracle. I don't know where ya got the idea she's a new overseer program.

The Architect is just a creation OF the machine world, made to create the Matrix. He didn't make the machine world.

The Oracle is the other half of the Architect. Whereas the Architect sees choice as the "problem" and sees everything in black and white, the Oracle sees choice as the solution and has hope.

As to the question of what happens next... peace has been declared, and as the Oracle says it will last "as long as it can". It's up to the audience to pontificate on, but I'd venture they attempt to find a way to live together on the surface.

[Cyclonite]

I'm not going to try to start a religious debate, but did anyone notice how at the end, Neo was laid out as if on a cross. Also, how he dies for everyone else to live. Just an observation. ;)

[Camman]

General Keebler had this to say


EMPs can be on land, but they'd wipe out the rest of the defenses so they aren't very effective that way.



I also thought about this. Seems to me, even if they didn't use the EMP as a main line of defense (I would...seems a lot more effective than trying to pummel them with bullets) they would atleast have a ****load of them lined up for last line of defense. You figure, the EMP won't damage a ship as long as it's off (thats why they power the ship down before releasing the EMP....otherwise the ship would no longer function after the EMP was blasted even if it was off, and we know this isn't true) so it would seem they could just power down all the other defenses as well as all other EMPs, then keep firing another one up as needed.

[WuGgaRoO]

the movie needed more fighting..then i would rhave read all of this :)

[GnomeWizardd]

Great Flick! OMG the bullets flying towards the sentinals made for one nice action sceen! Cant wait till i see it again ( always watch it 2 times so you get all of the details )

[TheSmJ]

My questions after watching:

The war is over, but another could start anytime... possibly by a 'terrorist'.... we dont know what happens/

We dont know if Neo is actually dead, or what the machine was doing to him at the end (or going with him).

That french guy... what happened to him?

And his hot 'wife' (Monnica Bellucci), only ~10 seconds of her... from the mid-chest up? WTF?!


There has to be another.... there just has to. Things aren't over yet. It's like this last movie was the end of the first book, we need another to know how things really turn out!

[Buddy J]

If Neo was the 1, and Smith is his opposite, then Smith is the -1
So when then combined, it was 0. *poof*

Yea, I hope there is another trilogy.