Vegetarian "Purification Cycle" [Archive]

primesuspect

12 Sep 2007, 06:44pm

Much like a Patryn in the Labyrinth, I do this every couple of years. I stop eating meat for a couple of months. In the past, I've done this anywhere from 3 weeks to almost six months.

I don't have any philosophical, religious, or ethical motives, I just do it because I tend to feel a bit healthier afterwards.

So I started two days ago. It's easier and easier to be a vegetarian - so far I've had no struggles finding good things to eat.

For lunch yesterday I had Thai-style fried rice and substituted mixed vegetables for meat. It was awesome

For dinner yesterday I got a blimpie "vegi-max" sub (I feel dirty when I order it - it sounds like vagi-max)

Today I had a falaffel, hummous, and tabbouleh sandwich

Etc.

Thoughts?

GHoosdum

12 Sep 2007, 06:59pm

When people learn that I am mostly vegetarian, they ask me, "how can you get a variety of food without meat?"

By now all I do is chuckle. The people that ask are almost always burger 'n fries types. Sausage for breakfast. Burger for lunch. Steak for dinner. Repeat. Tell me where's the variety in that?

primesuspect

12 Sep 2007, 07:23pm

Indians are the masters, though. I could eat a completely different meal every day for 60 days and still eat no meat if I had a master Indian chef living in my kitchen :p

GHoosdum

12 Sep 2007, 07:24pm

You'd also poop a different color every day for 60 days. ;)

mmmmm.... Indian....

Thelemech

12 Sep 2007, 07:32pm

For almost a full year the only meat I ate would be fish or free range chicken(and rarely ); even went as far as going organic, eating as much pesticide(etc) free veggies and fruits as possible/affordable.What a different all around feeling of self I had, the only time in my life that I felt better was when I was bodybuilding (eating tons of meat; of course :) )when I was in the last years of high school. There are a few great "eats" that I remember = stir fry veggies with tofu, oriental noodles with peanut sauce and well cooked beans, etc etc... ...As you know, this will do your body and mind a world of good Prime!

mas0n

12 Sep 2007, 07:57pm

For a few years while I was vegetarian I came to really enjoy Thai food, eating it at least twice a week. I love the way the spices compliment the vegetables and the ability to substitute tofu into pretty much any meal as the meat itself is rarely a primary source of flavor in a Thai dish.

GHoosdum

12 Sep 2007, 08:01pm

Generally speaking, charred flesh in and of itself is not what I consider to be a great flavor source. American "cooking" seems to believe it's the only thing you need aside from some deep fried potato in one form or another...

mas0n

12 Sep 2007, 08:07pm

Don't forget the "wedge o' lettuce with a carrot" salad.

StainMeNow

12 Sep 2007, 08:25pm

Don't forget the "wedge o' lettuce with a carrot" salad.

And it's not even good lettuce. Iceberg is like drinking a glass of water. Ugh :-/ Spinach salads all the way!

Sledgehammer70

12 Sep 2007, 08:29pm

i could never do this... first off not a fan of veggies 2nd off i have to have meat of some kind. It is just in my blood to eat good meat.

Your Amish Daddy

12 Sep 2007, 08:33pm

Now, I wanna up your ante. Try fruit instead of just vegetables. Fruit for breakfast and lunch but graze on it during the day, and a very light meat dinner with a large portion of green vegetables, preferably fresh. Eat that for two weeks, then tell me how you feel.

Sledgehammer70

12 Sep 2007, 08:35pm

ewww... how is someone suppose to feel after eating like this? fruity with a veggie tale twist?

GHoosdum

12 Sep 2007, 08:37pm

Very clean and full of energy, actually.

lemonlime

12 Sep 2007, 08:37pm

I've been a vegetarian for years. I know exactly what you mean about the Indian cooking, Brian. I've taught myself how to cook quite a few indian dishes over the years. I found that I had a much greater appreciation for food and tried a larger variety of foods from all over the world when I stopped eating meat--not to mention feeling a heck of a lot better.

Your Amish Daddy

12 Sep 2007, 08:39pm

No. Do some dietary research man, and look at modern humans vs bronze age humans.

EDIT://And GHoosdum is right. Try it sometime. You might feel like a real man for a change.

Sledgehammer70

12 Sep 2007, 08:47pm

No. Do some dietary research man, and look at modern humans vs bronze age humans.

EDIT://And GHoosdum is right. Try it sometime. You might feel like a real man for a change.

I don't think I ever had issues about feeling like a real man...

GHoosdum

12 Sep 2007, 08:49pm

LOL - Gigantor ALWAYS feels like a MAN.

LawnMM

12 Sep 2007, 08:52pm

You asked for thoughts...

I think you're starving your body of protein when you do this and thats not good for you physically and it certainly will help derail any efforts as far as 'toning up' or losing weight.

If you want to try something different try cutting out carbohydrates from your diet instead of meat. By consuming a large amount of protein every day you'll help preserve what muscle you still have but the drop in your carbohydrate intake will slash you calorie intake and you'll start to lose weight. More importantly, you'll start losing fat.

I wouldn't do it for more than three or four days at a time with a cheat day at the tail end of each 3-4 day stretch.

I know you can still ingest some protein from beans and whatever other vegan friendly sources there are but unless you're eating like 8 cans of beans per day you're really starving your body of one of the most important macronutrients.

You don't have to eat bad meat. Stick to lean sources of protein like turkey and chicken if you have issues with red meat. Eggs, cheese, etc, all are good sources.

GHoosdum

12 Sep 2007, 08:54pm

You'd be surprised at how much protein is actually in whole foods and many international vegetarian dishes, Lawn.

BetsyD

12 Sep 2007, 09:16pm

This sounds like a good idea if you take care to include enough protein in your diet, and not like a friends of mine's 'Fill up on starch and carbs and dont eat anything eles'-vegetarianism :P

I might even try it except that my family would disown me :P

primesuspect

12 Sep 2007, 09:23pm

Yeah, I'm really kinda burned out on the whole "lack of protein" thing. I've known way too many lifetime vegetarians who are healthy, strong, and glowing people to think that eating meat is a human necessity.

As I stated in the beginning, I have absolutely no issues with eating animals, people, insects, babies, etc. Nor do I begrudge others who do the same. I will go back to eating meat when I get a mad craving for rib of swine or bloody hunk of beef steer.

This is something I've tried before, and been very happy with as far as "how I feel" - it's nothing more than that.

Many of the Buddhist and Hindu monks I know are amazingly healthy, really old men, who have been lifetime vegetarians (not vegans - please don't confuse the two, they are aliens to each other, and I agree that a vegan lifestyle is very unhealthy). Put it this way, if I took 20 of the 65+ year old white americans I know and put them next to 20 of the 65+ year old lifetime vegetarian thai, vietnamese, and indian people I know - you would say, 'holy crap those brown people look absolutely great compared to the saggy fat, hunched over old white people' Shining, tight skin, good eyesight, walking straight and tall, etc.

Lack of meat never did them any harm.

//addendum to BetsyD:

I really have no trouble with lack of protein in my veg choices, since I primarily stick with Indian, Thai, and Middle Eastern cuisines. Falaffel, labne, lentils, etc. Lots of protein in those dishes. I avoid the chemically manufactured "american soy mush patty pressed into different shapes and textures" as much as I can. I am not convinced that those are valid sources of healthy nutrition over the long term.

Nomad

12 Sep 2007, 09:50pm

For almost a year now I've eaten as many chickens as possible daily.

BetsyD

12 Sep 2007, 11:50pm

//addendum to BetsyD:

I really have no trouble with lack of protein in my veg choices, since I primarily stick with Indian, Thai, and Middle Eastern cuisines. Falaffel, labne, lentils, etc. Lots of protein in those dishes. I avoid the chemically manufactured "american soy mush patty pressed into different shapes and textures" as much as I can. I am not convinced that those are valid sources of healthy nutrition over the long term.

My post was more in response to Lawn's post, not yours :) I think vegetarianism is uesful when done correctly. Ive just seen one very sick old lady who starved herself of all protein in the name of vegetarianism who has been hospitalized almost constantly for the past 10 years because of the lack, And then my other example of vegetarianism is GHoosdum, who "does it right" :P Sounds like you do too... Sorry for the miscommunication.

Side note: I didnt even realize until recently that my favorite indian dishes were vegetarian until recently when I looked up some recipes for them :P Yummy indian :cool:

primesuspect

13 Sep 2007, 02:43am

I'm just sad nobody got my Patryn reference :-/

RWB

13 Sep 2007, 02:57am

http://www.chlorellafactor.com/ A good read on two foods that are incredible for protein and body cleansing...

I am trying something new myself, decided to go all out today. I week ago I received two things... Green Phytofoods (http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1&pid=613) & Chlorella (http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1&pid=512) which I have been using for the past week.

I don't have the extra money to buy extra Spirulina like I did with the Chlorella, but combined with adding fresh squeezed lemons to every drink I have I am trying to cleanse my body as well. I am doing what the first link is basically saying, I don't really measure how much I am taking I just take it when I feel like I need something. When I feel like going out and getting me a triple meat triple cheese burger with large fries and a sprite I pop a few Chlorella tabs and/or chug a few heaping tablespoons of the Green Phytofoods with a bunch of water(ain't that bad either).

I'll also mix a teaspoon in with my 52oz cup'o tea I carry around with me, which I usually have to refill 3-5 times a day.

If all else fails though and my will to eat is just that strong I always keep some tuna and salmon handy, not to mention eggs and my tasty Morning Star vegan meals.

I'm gonna give it a try and see how it goes, but judging from the past week I think it's gonna go great because I already feel great. On my next paycheck I'll buy a bunch of Spirulina and start popping those down too.

LawnMM

13 Sep 2007, 06:28am

primesuspect

13 Sep 2007, 06:42am

Leonardo

13 Sep 2007, 08:14am

American "cooking" seems to believe it's the only thing you need aside from some deep fried potato in one form or another...Hmm, sounds like you've been deprived of variety when it comes to 'American' cooking. If you want to try something different try cutting out carbohydrates from your diet instead of meat.Nothing drastic is needed at all! You know that food pyramid that's in so many posters? It's actually accurate and sound advice. Now, if the majority of carbohydrates is white bread crap and junk food, yeah, then strip it out. If it's complex carbohydrates and whole grains, go for it! It WON'T get you fat. The garbage white bread and highly processed crap WILL get you fat.

Frankly, I think people get waaay too hung up about either side of this equation -- vegetarianism and all-inclusive diets (meat eating). You can be perfectly healthy in either camp! And I've been in both camps. About the only big danger here is people thinking they can switch from an ordinary meat-eating diet simply by substituting one or two vegetable proteins for their animal protein intake. That's where one needs to be very careful. To get all the necessary amino acids for proper human cell formation and growth, the vegetarian needs to consume a very wide variety of WHOLE grains and vegetable proteins. It's not easy, but it can definitely be done.

The biggest craziness is the rush to stupid fads:

greatfruit diet
Scarsdale diet
high protein diet
low or no-carbohydrates diet
God only knows what silliness (that directly contradicts the previous high fashion diet) will come next

The list is endless. What's laughed at today will be fashion tomorrow. What's popular today people will spurned tomorrow.

Four food groups - moderation - lots of water - moderate portions - low or unrefined - not excessive fat - low added sugar - low added salt (sodium). It is that simple.

Leonardo

13 Sep 2007, 08:36am

It's sure easier to get protein through meat, but then that's why america is probably the fattest country on earth.Imbalance of protein over whole grains and fruits and vegetables? Yeah, that's part of the problem. But that's only one part of it. Just thirty something years ago when I was a kid, the fat people were the exception, so much that people stared at them. People were big meat eaters then too, and they usually didn't even bother trimming off the fat. What's different now. Obesity is a disease? (That's idiotic horseship.) What is different now: 1) people eat out three or four times as much, 2) eat FAR more processed food, 3) get far less exercise on a day to day basis, 3) people snack more (on pure junk), 4) people eat larger portions (restaurant portions have become ridiculous), 5) a Coke was a treat; people drank sodas as something special - a treat, not at all like today, very few school kids had mega sugar loaded drinks (the boxed junk and sodas) in their lunches - soda consumption wasn't near what it is now. Big lifestyle changes have made the difference. Probably the biggest differences now are lots of junk food (refined, sugar, fat, boxed.sodas..) and lack of physical activity in the day to day routine.

You do have a point though, in that it's more difficult to put on fat from plant protein than from animal. The plant protein just doesn't have all the fat...unless its peanut butter or something like that.

GHoosdum

13 Sep 2007, 01:58pm

Never said you can't be healthy eating rabbit food exclusively or that you couldn't be a 'glowing' person. All I said was cutting out meat drops a huge array of protein sources from your available list. You could probably do it without, but it would be rough I'm sure.

Rabbit food? ;D
I think you're missing the distinction between vegetarian and vegan. Vegans eat "rabbit food". They often have trouble getting enough protein. Vegetarians, on the other hand, often get plenty of protein for a healthy lifestyle, and often a lot less saturated fat. Rough? Nope. I've done it all my life and it's not rough at all. According to some studies that I've read, the average human needs about 50g of protein in a day. The average vegetarian gets 65g. The average "meat eater" gets about 80g per day. I eat 100-150g+ protein every day.

Unfortunately, Lawn, I don't think your opinion is informed by fact. I'm glad, though, that you're willing to exchange in dialogue about it and even ask questions to learn more, like the one about the protein content of international dishes.

here's one example of a dish I like a lot:

Mutter Paneer (this is indian curry with chunks of goat cheese)

1 serving:

147 cal
10.7 carb
8.5 prot
8.1 fat

Uh... How large is 1 serving? I'm pretty sure I eat about 15 servings of Mutter Paneer whenever I go to the buffet, and I knew it had a lot of fat, but I didn't realize it was that much! That Paneer is killer stuff!

Frankly, I think people get waaay too hung up about either side of this equation -- vegetarianism and all-inclusive diets (meat eating). You can be perfectly healthy in either camp! And I've been in both camps. About the only big danger here is people thinking they can switch from an ordinary meat-eating diet simply by substituting one or two vegetable proteins for their animal protein intake. That's where one needs to be very careful. To get all the necessary amino acids for proper human cell formation and growth, the vegetarian needs to consume a very wide variety of WHOLE grains and vegetable proteins. It's not easy, but it can definitely be done.

That is a GREAT point, Leo. Those switching to vegetarianism, even temporarily, should study the topic of Food Combining to create complete protein groups, or at least get plant proteins from a variety of sources. However, supplementing plant proteins with whey and casein will provide a pretty complete protein picture, and it's not out of bounds for a vegetarian to consume dairy proteins.

What is different now: 1) people eat out three or four times as much, 2) eat FAR more processed food, 3) get far less exercise on a day to day basis, 3) people snack more (on pure junk), 4) people eat larger portions (restaurant portions have become ridiculous), 5) a Coke was a treat; people drank sodas as something special - a treat, not at all like today, very few school kids had mega sugar loaded drinks (the boxed junk and sodas) in their lunches - soda consumption wasn't near what it is now. Big lifestyle changes have made the difference. Probably the biggest differences now are lots of junk food (refined, sugar, fat, boxed.sodas..) and lack of physical activity in the day to day routine.

Exactly! Move around more, eat less refined foods (particularly HFCS!) and practice portion and calorie control and you'll feel better and get slimmer. It's that simple. And by simple, I mean it's the way our bodies like to operate. It's extremely difficult to implement in our consumer culture where attention spans are measured in nanoseconds and convenience is king.

Thrax

13 Sep 2007, 03:28pm

The average human needs about 200g, not 50.

GHoosdum

13 Sep 2007, 03:41pm

The average human needs about 200g, not 50.

Uh, what? Can you provide some non-bodybuilding-related scientific resources that support that claim?

How much protein do we need? The RDA recommends that we take in 0.8 grams of protein for every kilogram that we weigh (or about 0.36 grams of protein per pound that we weigh) 1. This recommendation includes a generous safety factor for most people.
Source (http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm)

How to Calculate Your Protein Needs:

1. Weight in pounds divided by 2.2 = weight in kg
2. Weight in kg x 0.8-1.8 gm/kg = protein gm.

Use a lower number if you are in good health and are sedentary. Use a higher number (between 1 and 1.8) if you are under stress, are pregnant, are recovering from an illness, or if you are involved in consistent and intense weight or endurance training.
Source (http://exercise.about.com/cs/nutrition/a/protein_2.htm)

We have seen in our lab that individuals undergoing endurance training increase their protein needs to about 1 to 1.2 g per kg per day, well above the RDA. In contrast, for subjects performing resistance exercises or weight lifting, the RDA for protein seems to be adequate. In resistance training, you are building up muscle and protein is used more efficiently.
Source (http://www.thedoctorwillseeyounow.com/articles/nutrition/protein_2/)

According to these docs, considering the idea that I'm training, the 150g I take in daily is more than adequate. If I were not, according to the RDA, I would need 50.9g of protein daily to get by.

Nomad

14 Sep 2007, 01:20am

I would shoot for a minimum of 1g per pound of body weight, I don't consider that any sort of body-building thing either. The RDI is fairly out of date, though. More protein won't hurt, particularly if you're trying to gain/preserve muscle.

LawnMM

14 Sep 2007, 03:43am

here's one example of a dish I like a lot:

Mutter Paneer (this is indian curry with chunks of goat cheese)

1 serving:

147 cal
10.7 carb
8.5 prot
8.1 fat

That's just one example - it's 1:45 am and I don't feel like trolling the web for nut. info on various veg dishes. You can do the same if you're that curious.

Remember that plant protein is just as valid as meat protein, and doesn't contain any sat. fats or cholesterol. Also the fiber intake is way up which is good for the cholesterol and digestive system.

It's sure easier to get protein through meat, but then that's why america is probably the fattest country on earth. I don't exempt myself from that - i'm fat too, but like I said, I'm not in this for any reason other than "i feel better after a while".

I'm not suggesting you're in it for other reasons. I'm just pointing out the nutritional deficiency, with regard to protein that brings about, for people that eat that way as a rule rather than a break from regular dietary eating.

That dish you suggested is fine nutrionally as a snack. If those are the kinds of meals you're eating all day you need probably 20x the nutrients in order to be approaching optimal nutrition. I realize you're doing this because you feel better. I'm speaking from a physical fitness / bodybuilding perspective. I structure my dietary needs around two goals at different times of the year, adding muscle, or losing fat. From that perspective, at 10g of protein per meal, I'd need to eat a solid 20 of those dishes per day to get the nutrients I need.

Again, I realize we have different goals. I'm just pointing out the deficiency in case other people in the fitness clubhouse here have similar goals to my own.

America is not the fattest country on earth because of meat. America is the fattest country on earth because of two reasons:

1 - Our food portions are ridiculous. Most people order a meal and they feel compelled to eat everything on their plate. The portion sizes in this country are signficantly larger than other countries. As a result people here eat a friggin tripple cheeseburger and a supersized fries with a large coke and they just took in more than 1000 calories comprised mainly of fat and carbohydrates. Most people who aren't actively bodybuilding can survive quite easily and healthily in the 2000 calorie range. People in this country take in more than half the calories they need for a day in a single sitting. That stalls metabolism and overloads your bloodstream with excess calories that get stored as fat.

2 - The carbohydrates we consume here. Carbohydrates, particularly high glycemic index carbohydrates like fries and what not, spike the insulin levels in the human bloodstream faster than almost anything else. As a result the bulk of the carbohydrate and fat calories are stored as fat. We all know that isn't healthy. In other countries a healthy meal consists of fruits, vegetables, sliced chicken in a salad, etc. Those are high fiber and primarily low glycemic index carbohydrates paired with lean sources of protein. Here, its a friggin bigmac and fries.

Cutting out sources of protein is not going to yield signficant weight loss, the opposite is true of carbohydrates. Protein doesn't spike insulin levels the way carbohydrates do. Protein is also harder for the body to break down and thus leaves you feeling full and satiated longer. As an added bonus protein is less likely to be stored as fat, boosts metabolism, and is more likely to be converted to muscle than carbohydrates.

I'm glad the veggie stuff makes you feel better but meat isn't why america is fat and veggie food, while healthy, is not a significant source of protein.

Nightwolf

14 Sep 2007, 03:55am

You asked for thoughts...

I think you're starving your body of protein when you do this and thats not good for you physically and it certainly will help derail any efforts as far as 'toning up' or losing weight.

You'd be surprised in how many years of no meat it would actually take to create a protein or iron deficiency. Theres plenty of protein in whole grains and beans and if he had to he could take Vitamins B12 to take care of any iron problems (which would be very rare)

LawnMM

14 Sep 2007, 04:14am

I'm playing catchup. Apparently we all replied as I was typing up my last one.

You'd be surprised in how many years of no meat it would actually take to create a protein or iron deficiency. Theres plenty of protein in whole grains and beans and if he had to he could take Vitamins B12 to take care of any iron problems (which would be very rare)

Really? I lost probably 10-20lbs of muscle in less than a year when I moved to Colorado because I couldn't afford a gym membership at the time and I wasn't even coming close to 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight per day. There is protein in whole grains and beans, but if you're going to get 1g/lb of bodyweight in per day yer eating a hell of a lot of grains and beans.

Now, if the majority of carbohydrates is white bread crap and junk food, yeah, then strip it out. If it's complex carbohydrates and whole grains, go for it! It WON'T get you fat. The garbage white bread and highly processed crap WILL get you fat.The biggest craziness is the rush to stupid fads

I agree with most of what ya said Leo, just gonna address some of it. I never said eating carbohydrates will make you fat. If you pay attention to the glycemic index you can go nuts. Prime started the thread talking about short-term changes with a specific goal. He does the veggie thing and it cleans out his system a bit and he feels better. I'm suggesting carbohydrate cycling for people that are trying to trim off some fat.

Thats not a fad, its an accepted and proven practice in the fitness world. I'll go more into the mechanics if people want.

Uh, what? Can you provide some non-bodybuilding-related scientific resources that support that claim?

You can take your nutrient guidelines from the RDA if you want. I'm going to take them from fitness and bodybuilding experts. I'm not talking about the roided up pro's either. I'm talking about the really fit people with fitness and nutrition degrees. Pick up any fitness magazine and you'll see 1g/lb of bodyweight is a pretty universal recommendation for regular people. They recommend even MORE for people trying to add muscle to their frame.

primesuspect

14 Sep 2007, 05:01am

You know what's cool is this: A thread about this very subject was the very first thread I ever posted on in the original Icrontic. :)

Full circle :ninja:

Anyways, this thread might not be quite topical, because I'm not claiming to "be" a vegetarian. I'm just eating no meat for a few weeks while my poopchute gets scrubbed nice and shiny clean :crazy:

LawnMM

14 Sep 2007, 05:13am

If thats your goal just eat one of those bran muffins!

fatcat

14 Sep 2007, 05:14am

Anyways, this thread might not be quite topical, because I'm not claiming to "be" a vegetarian. I'm just eating no meat for a few weeks while my poopchute gets scrubbed nice and shiny clean :crazy:

MOAR !BEERZ

;) j/k best of luck!

jared

14 Sep 2007, 05:32am

Stuff you stomach with Taco bell and then go out for some beers... your poopchute will be cleaned and then some the next day I promise...

Leonardo

14 Sep 2007, 07:23am

For almost a year now I've eaten as many chickens as possible daily.Citizen of the year, I say.

Tell me Nomad, do you cross the road now with confidence! And do you know why you cross the road? (you are what you eat?)

GHoosdum

14 Sep 2007, 02:01pm

I'm glad, though, that you're willing to exchange in dialogue about it and even ask questions to learn more, like the one about the protein content of international dishes.

I'm just pointing out the nutritional deficiency, with regard to protein that brings about, for people that eat that way as a rule rather than a break from regular dietary eating.

I take it back. You're apparently not open-minded about this topic at all, and it seems that you only asked about the nutritional content of the international dishes in order to again criticize the vegetarian way of life.

Lawn, you're displaying the same attitude as the people who always tried to make me feel like a second-class citizen for being vegetarian. It's disappointing, because most of your posts in the past were very well-reasoned and level-headed, but on this topic you're being just as closed-minded as the people that persecute others just for eating differently.

I have said it before and I will say it again, I am a vegetarian on a workout regimen and I do not suffer from lack of protein AT ALL. It is very easy to get plenty of protein without meat, and anyone who insists otherwise in the face of the facts is intentionall blinding himself to the truth.

I have never once tried to convert someone to vegetarianism, but people take the existence of the concept as a threat to their meat-eating ways.

Thanks, Lawn, for once again making me feel like the kid in class who got picked on for bringing a lunch of whole-grain breads and avocado instead of eating cafeteria food.

RWB

14 Sep 2007, 02:16pm

I take it back. You're apparently not open-minded about this topic at all, and it seems that you only asked about the nutritional content of the international dishes in order to again criticize the vegetarian way of life.

Lawn, you're displaying the same attitude as the people who always tried to make me feel like a second-class citizen for being vegetarian. It's disappointing, because most of your posts in the past were very well-reasoned and level-headed, but on this topic you're being just as closed-minded as the people that persecute others just for eating differently.

I have said it before and I will say it again, I am a vegetarian on a workout regimen and I do not suffer from lack of protein AT ALL. It is very easy to get plenty of protein without meat, and anyone who insists otherwise in the face of the facts is intentionall blinding himself to the truth.

I have never once tried to convert someone to vegetarianism, but people take the existence of the concept as a threat to their meat-eating ways.

Thanks, Lawn, for once again making me feel like the kid in class who got picked on for bringing a lunch of whole-grain breads and avocado instead of eating cafeteria food.

I completely see where you are coming from, I was that guy who thought vegans were malnourished idiots who were just too scared of living how nature allowed... eating animals. From what I've seen so far I could easily be a body builder and a vegan at the same time. There are algae and plants, grains and nuts that provide a ton of protein. And while this protein may be in smaller quantities, it's a higher grade protein that is more easily digested and taken into the body to be converted.

I was right about some vegans I've known in the past though, but they simply did the same thing I did. They as well as I didn't get variety in the diet. I ate meat and nothing but meat, with meat on the side, I could not stand vegetables and fruits were never my fortay.

mas0n

14 Sep 2007, 02:31pm

For almost a year now I've eaten as many chickens as possible daily.

This actually sounds close to my diet these days...

lemonlime

14 Sep 2007, 02:36pm

I have said it before and I will say it again, I am a vegetarian on a workout regimen and I do not suffer from lack of protein AT ALL. It is very easy to get plenty of protein without meat, and anyone who insists otherwise in the face of the facts is intentionall blinding himself to the truth.

I have never once tried to convert someone to vegetarianism, but people take the existence of the concept as a threat to their meat-eating ways.

Very true, GH. It is not difficult to get sufficient levels of protein on a vegetarian diet. People would be surprised just how much protein can be ingested simply by eating a variety of vegetables, nuts, legumes and whole grains. Keeping variety in a vegetarian diet is key, as you get all of the complementary proteins that way. Consuming dairy products makes that even easier as dairy is comprised of 'complete' proteins. I doubt I'm as careful as you are with your diet, GH, and I've never felt better in all my life. I have never suffered from a lack of protein, and infact, feel much better than I ever did when I ate meat. I hardly ever get sick and feel very energetic.

I've had countless debates with family and friends over the years about this, and it is always the same questions and misconceptions about vegetarianism that come up. I generally don't discuss it any more as the people asking rarely want to be open minded on the subject. They are generally quick to discredit it as unhealthy, too difficult or simply weird--which is when the ethical and moral debates begin that I refuse to get into. I never try to force my views on anyone, but somehow, others find it necessary to force contrary views on me--every time.

primesuspect

14 Sep 2007, 02:55pm

Keep up the friendly banter, mates :D

Yesterday I had a bowl of strawberry oatmeal, okra curry for lunch, a chapati (indian whole grain flatbread) with some labne (lebanese home-made yoghurt), and plain jane Ragu spaghetti sauce on some whole wheat pasta. And a PB+J.

Feelin' fine! ;)

Sledgehammer70

14 Sep 2007, 08:36pm

I eat Horse, Cow, Goat, Lamb, Pig, Buffalo, Ostrich, Chicken, Fish, Alligator, Duck, Frog, Rabbit, Deer & many other types of meat...

Without them I would die....

But congrats on stating your a tree hugger :) lol :)

Veggies are bad for the taste buds :) but I must learn to eat them...

primesuspect

14 Sep 2007, 08:52pm

Without them I would die.... I doubt that.... :p

Sledgehammer70

14 Sep 2007, 11:04pm

I doubt that.... :p

No I really would...

primesuspect

15 Sep 2007, 12:52am

No, I really doubt that :D

LawnMM

15 Sep 2007, 06:08am

I take it back. You're apparently not open-minded about this topic at all, and it seems that you only asked about the nutritional content of the international dishes in order to again criticize the vegetarian way of life.

Negative ghostrider, the pattern is full.

As I stated in my responses to Prime everybody gets into these different ways of eating for different reasons. I'm looking at it from a fitness and bodybuilding perspective because thats what I spend a lot of my free time on. I know there are people on this site, and probably reading this forum, that are interested in packing on some muscle as well. If thats the case I wouldn't advise the vegetarian way of eating as an efficient way to go about achieving that goal for reasons I've already stated.

I'm not criticizing and I'm certainly not trying to make somebody feel like they are second class because of the way they choose to eat. Once again, I'm speaking with regard to what is often a goal of many people - they want bigger muscles and they want to drop some fat from their frame. If thats a goal of somebody reading through this forum looking for nutrition ideas I think it best they know that protein is paramount in achieving that goal and that its scarce in the vegetarian menu.

I'm glad you're a vegetarian and its a choice you made and one you like. I'm even happier to hear you work out because most people in this country do not and its a contributor to the fat society we've evolved into. I'll even concede that you are getting enough protein in your diet but that really depends on what your goals are, and what your progress is.

Again I'll ask out of curiosity, how many grams of protein are you consuming daily? What do you weigh? What kind of workouts are you doing and what sort of fitness goals do you have? Are you maintaining, trimming down, bulking up, what? I'm not asking because I'm fishing for more ammunition, I'm asking so I can put what you're saying in perspective. **Question retracted I'm reading your other thread***

I couldn't get enough protein in with some of the stuff we've been discussing so far for my goals. That doesn't mean everybody else has the same goals. Nor does it mean other people can't have the same goals and still make progress eating vegetarian dishes. Based on my experience though, there are more and less efficient ways of shaping up and for those considering eating vegetarian I believe that to be less efficient. Not because I have something against vegetarians, because the significant sources of protein are not on the menu.

Could I get the 200+ grams of protein I shoot for every day eating vegetarian? Probably, but I'd be eating constantly and I have enough trouble eating often enough to make 200 happen WITH dense sources like chicken, turkey, beef, etc.

I completely see where you are coming from, I was that guy who thought vegans were malnourished idiots who were just too scared of living how nature allowed... eating animals.

I don't think they are idiots or malnourished. I think for people who want to muscle up and trim down that vegetarian is not the best way to go about meeting their nutritional needs with those goals. Doesn't mean you can't be vegetarian. Doesn't mean thats a knock against vegetarians. Just means if people are looking for nutrition advice in here with goals similar to mine I'd advise against it, that is all.

If that makes me some kind of anti-vegetarian biggot I guess you can call me what you will then.

RWB

15 Sep 2007, 06:45am

I don't think they are idiots or malnourished. I think for people who want to muscle up and trim down that vegetarian is not the best way to go about meeting their nutritional needs with those goals. Doesn't mean you can't be vegetarian. Doesn't mean thats a knock against vegetarians. Just means if people are looking for nutrition advice in here with goals similar to mine I'd advise against it, that is all.

If that makes me some kind of anti-vegetarian biggot I guess you can call me what you will then.

Sorry man, I wasn't pointing that at you... I was only saying that I was that guy.

LawnMM

15 Sep 2007, 07:15am

Sorry man, I wasn't pointing that at you... I was only saying that I was that guy.

Whatever veggie-biggot! :D By the way I've still not shaken the urge to refer to you as Loki :p

RWB

15 Sep 2007, 07:29am

Whatever veggie-biggot! :D By the way I've still not shaken the urge to refer to you as Loki :p

Wow most people don't even remember that!

BTW I've been continuing my research and it does appear that most veggies don't provide the whole proteins, except almonds(which I am acquiring a taste for slowly thanks to my nature trail mix). You have to eat a variety of veggies to get the complete proteins. I am still figuring out what the hell is different between proteins and what is a protein, but so far from what I can tell Almonds and Spirulina provide superior proteins that are highly digestible and potent in some way.

I have 2-3 days before I have enough money to go out and buy more food, which I plan on using on mostly veggies(which is why I am researching), but I will continue eating fish and eggs simply because I love them. But I might take a couple weeks and kind of do what Prime is doing and go on an all veggie diet to cleanse the system. Hence the juicer thread I have, I am gonna do that all veggie/fruit juice diet and see how it goes, but I still want all my vitamins and nutrients. The more I research the more my plans change though haha.

LawnMM

15 Sep 2007, 07:34am

Wow most people don't even remember that!

I'm a community veteran my good man! I remember it all!

Good luck with the veggies and feel free to leave out the details of the cleansing!

RWB

15 Sep 2007, 07:39am

I'm a community veteran my good man! I remember it all!

Good luck with the veggies and feel free to bring on the details of the cleansing!

Well you see, first you take a tablespoon of Sea Salt and add it to a large glass of luke warm water and chug it on an empty stomach. After that stick around near a toilet and have plenty of cleaners on standby for the next unforgettable 4 hours.
:bucket:

Ohh and sorry if I just destroyed this thread...

Leonardo

16 Sep 2007, 03:40am

Vegan vs. Vegetarian.

WHAT is the difference? When I was growing up, people knew what a vegetarian was: someone who did not eat the flesh of animals. There were total vegetarians - no animal products at all, and lacto-ovo vegetarians - those who would include in their diet dairy and egg products. Now, all of a sudden in the 90s, out of nowhere, comes this term "Vegan." What is it? Vegan? Something from Star Trek? Is it just a group coining a word in order for them to appear new, inspired, and original? The name almost sounds like a religious status or something, a la, "I have attained the level of vegan, with nirvana to follow shortly". Forgive me if I offend anyone; I really don't know this term.

I intentionally did not look up these terms as I wanted to hear the popular definitions from you guys.