I need help. I'm in trouble

[airbornflght]

And sadly, this time a girl isn't involved.

Ok. So I'm a freshman at Ok State. I declared as an Electrical/Computer Engineer. Maybe not so much... I've had to swallow a lot of hard truths the last six weeks. One of them being maybe I don't have boundless capability for learning. Because I just can't handle calculus. I don't know what happened, but in high school everything just came to me. I didn't have to work for my grades. Everything seemed rudimentary. Enter college and I must look like a fifth grader compared to these other kids. I'm struggling and they aren't even trying. So I've come to the realization that I more than likely can't handle engineering. Sad but true.

So I come to you for advice on what I can do. I'm dropping the Calc 2014 and picking up some filler classes so I don't loose my scholarships. I need to find another major that is within my reach.

English isn't my thing, neither are the arts, engineering is obviously to challenging. The only thing I can come to an ends with is either business or computer science. I'd probably do computer science were it not for the seeming lack of job security and instability of the job market. Because lets face it, being happy and liking what you're doing are nice. But if you don't have a job then what good is it. Business sounds cool, I enjoyed the classes in high school I took that dealt with economics and basic accounting.

The only problem is I don't know what my options are in business. I've heard finance has a nice job market and is fairly rewarding as a career path. MIS (management and information systems) is something that is of some interest to me. It seems to be a culmination of business and cs. I don't know right now though, I feel so defeated.

[MiracleManS]

This is coming from someone who is absolutely miserable with the choice they made in degree and is finally trying to fix it somehow. DO WHAT YOU WANT. Don't look at the jobs, don't look at what the prospects are, just look at what you'd like to study. That's the most important part. From what I remember reading, something like 75% of graduates don't even have a job in their field 5 years after graduating. Just make sure you enjoy what you're studying and that you're having fun with it, otherwise it'll be a waste of time and such a struggle to go to classes, which shouldn't happen.

[Nomad]

CS requires Calculus too, does it not?

[Thelemech]

First I would like to say ; Do Not Give Up!!! This is a bigger change/time in your life than maybe you realize = the stress can be incredible!!! Secondly, I agree with MiracleManS =Do what thou will ... ABF you love computers ... do you not??
I would go for the Computer Science and steamroll my way to the top of the heap! :D

edit:/ doing 90 of course :)

[lightnin]

maybe it's the way they number classes there, but why did you *start* with calc 20 whatever? usually the beginning classes, even with calc for engineering, start with lower numbers... and yeah everywhere i've looked cs requires calc too. i hated calc, sucked at it. i took the third and final calc three times before i made a decent grade in it.


oh yeah, you wanted advice. here's my advice... "beer, it's your friend, drink lots of it. find someone with a car and make friends with them the first day."

[Cyclonite]

Calc is at least a 2000 level course.

Anyway, don't give up, man. It took a bit for it to click with me. I picked up a few books to help me along with Calc 1. I now have a Bachelors degree in Electrical Engineering. Keep pressin', man.

[Thrax]

Take it from someone who crashed and burned in a Computer degree:

It all requires calc. Find a new major.

[Thelemech]

Take it from someone who crashed and burned in a Computer degree:

It all requires calc. Find a new major.

..words of Wisdom!!............:cool2:

I do not know the specific requirements .. but at any rate I hope you do what YOU need to do!(Successfully!)

[SPIKE09]

ABF I struggled with one course due to math content changed college and took an easy for Me option of Applied Biology passed it, but I got bored so grades were not 1:1 not even close find something you like yes but also a challenge boredom kills ambition.


PS never used the qualification since the Job market sucked here.

[mmonnin]

From what I remember reading, something like 75% of graduates don't even have a job in their field 5 years after graduating.

<-Job in field before leaving college...
Might want to check again. All my close friends from college have a job in tech related field, all with 6 months.


ABF if your school is like any other I have seen there will be tutoring available some other students, profs, someone... If you like what you were getting into its worth getting to know the calc. Math doesnt change, its not something you are going to learn something new every year like technology. So once you know it...you know it.

Unless you get into some type of job with design, R&D or something (most likely not as thats for people with some nice Experience) along that line the calc in your field probably wont be bad. And anyplace you go will teach you what you need to know for the job anyway.

If you like it, put the effort to continue learning calc.

[FreeC8675]

I agree with monin on this one. Unless you really don't like what you are doing, and don't narrow that down to just one class. If you take the effort you should be able to succeed in any class. Don't worry about how well your peers are doing in your classes either, they probably have had some sort of calc before and understand because they have had more practice with it. DOING WELL IN MATH = PRACTICE! (also you might want to make one of those wiz kids a study buddy ;)) Don't sweat getting C's either, employer's are a lot more into work experience than grades.

Above all do what you want to do. And if electrical engineer/computer engineer is what you want to do then don't let a couple of math classes get in the way. If it isn't then think about what you enjoy doing and go from there.

SIDENOTE: DONT LET WHAT IS "easy" TO DO BECOME WHATS YOU "want" TO DO.

gl.

[Cyclonite]

Agreed with the above two guys. Push, man. It's not a bad thing to get a poor grade in a class once or twice. A lot of my fellow graduating engineers took some of the rougher classes 2-3 times.

[NiGHTS]

If you are really interested in business, take accounting. If you want a job market and you want to make money right out (but work like a dog) get into accounting now.

Finance is the same way. The more specialized you are the more valuable you are coming straight out of college. Supply chain management, real estate/finance, accounting (tax, auditing, corporate) are all in high demand. Whatever is offered in terms of business is covered with an equivalent in accounting, and you get the added benefit of having accountant on your degree.

[FreeC8675]

Agreed with the above two guys. Push, man. It's not a bad thing to get a poor grade in a class once or twice. A lot of my fellow graduating engineers took some of the rougher classes 2-3 times.

ya and most engineers here at MU are in for at least 5 yrs for a bachelor's.

Its challenging but very rewarding:bigggrin::crazy:

[Keebler]

1) Talk to an advisor (or 3)
2) Try a Calc intro course or other such method of easing into it rather than hitting yourself over the head with it.
3) Welcome back to the land of mere mortals ;)

[Crazy Joe]

College taught me that the grades in high school and what I though were good grades didn't even compare to college... I took a Matrix Methods course in college that I received a 43% in and pulled a C... It's all about passing, don't worry if it's with a low grade, as long as you pass... Once you finish your degree the grades you got will never ever matter again, only that you have that piece of paper that says Bachelor's of Science (some schools don't even put your major on your degree, UC didn't.)

[the_technocrat]

I have an undergrad in Info. Sys., about to get a Master's in IS Mgmt. No calc needed, I suck at math.

Oh, and it's probably not you, Your high school teachers might have just been phoning it in...

[Gargoyle]

1) Talk to an advisor (or 3)
2) Try a Calc intro course or other such method of easing into it rather than hitting yourself over the head with it.
3) Welcome back to the land of mere mortals ;)

The man speaks the truth.

I do have one more piece of advice that comes from my own experience, though. If you're ever in the situation of needing to take classes to raise your GPA: take classes you're actually interested in.

I took mostly easy classes my third semester while I was trying to raise my GPA (and get my scholarship back), but I took stuff like Intro to Philosophy and Intro to Psychology. It's not that the classes were bad, but I didn't have any special interest in those subjects beforehand. They just looked easy. Don't waste your time taking a class just because it's easy. Find a class you think you might really like.

One more thing: I'm a Geography shill. Do me (and you) a favor and consider a geography course for one of your general education requirements. You might end up really liking it, and then pick up geography as a minor or a major. I say that because nobody starts as a geography major - everyone changes into it.

Here (http://www.geog.okstate.edu/courses/classidx.htm) are the geography courses being taught this semester at OSU.
That page doesn't have course descriptions (or a list for next semester), so here (http://checksheets.ou.edu/geog-ba.pdf) is a PDF of the degree plan for a BA in Geography at OU, so you can get a general idea. Check out the course descriptions of the first six classes (1103-2603) on the second page, and see if any strike your fancy. Those first six are pretty generic geography classes, and will be similar at OSU. Anyway, I'll quit bugging you about it :D. Good luck in whatever you decide :thumbsup:

[primesuspect]

I've seen the way Garg lives. I've seen what geography has done to this man.

Do not become a geographer, geographist, geogratologer, or whatever they're called. Primarily because it is a sausagefest and you'll get no geographical chicks.

[shwaip]

I've seen the way Garg lives. I've seen what geography has done to this man.

Do not become a geographer, geographist, geogratologer, or whatever they're called. Primarily because it is a sausagefest and you'll get no geographical chicks.

anything's better than engineering.

[primesuspect]

What about something f'in sweet like Astronomy or digital media, graphic arts (i know you said arts weren't for you, but...), cinematography, film history, history, philosophy...

[FreeC8675]

anything's better than engineering.

ya as you get to higher level engineering classes the women are few and far between:confused:

[MiracleManS]

<-Job in field before leaving college...
Might want to check again. All my close friends from college have a job in tech related field, all with 6 months.


ABF if your school is like any other I have seen there will be tutoring available some other students, profs, someone... If you like what you were getting into its worth getting to know the calc. Math doesnt change, its not something you are going to learn something new every year like technology. So once you know it...you know it.

Unless you get into some type of job with design, R&D or something (most likely not as thats for people with some nice Experience) along that line the calc in your field probably wont be bad. And anyplace you go will teach you what you need to know for the job anyway.

If you like it, put the effort to continue learning calc.

I wasn't saying they couldn't find a job in their field, but that most had left their actual field within 5 years.

[Tex]

<-Job in field before leaving college...
Might want to check again. All my close friends from college have a job in tech related field, all with 6 months.


You missed what I think he meant.

He didnt say they NEVER got a job in the field their major was in. But in FIVE YEARS they were no longer doing it. meaning they wasted a lot of years finding out they hated the jobs they were trained for or at least found something they enjoyed more or are getting paid better for etc...

Cheers

Tex

P.S> Sorry I didnt see that he had already corrected you above me here... Oooops

[BetsyD]

OK coming from another "HS was a breeze, College kicked my ass" (valedictorian in a class of ~400 in hs, squeaked out of college with a 3.0) person.

I started out pre-med. I LOVED science in high school and about halfway through the semester realized that there was no way I could do it for 4 years. Thats OK to decide.

So then I switched to Math.. I never had to work at math, I figured 'eh it will be a breeze Ill just sit back and the grades will roll in and Ill be out of here in 4 years' That totally was NOT the case. Math still kicked my ass but I loved doing it and kept going back to it...

When I was trying to decide what to switch to (and switching to undecided for a semester was not in the cards for me) I thought about 1) the fact that I had already come in with AP credit in the 1st semester classes required for a math major so I wouldn't be behind 2) The typical class schedule for mathematics (excluding gen ed courses) was all back-to-back morning classes which meant that I could spend my afternoons working/studying and 3) meeting with other math majors and the profs in that dept I discovered that they were a lot like me, not brilliant at what they do (OK well a few were) but still wanted to learn it. And that made it a lot easier to go to class to learn and not get discouraged that everyone around me 'got it' and I didn't.


So yeah the job prospects are important but thats what internships and minors are for (to give you just enough background in a particular field that you are hirable)... Do what you love or can at least tolerate while you are in college, thats what college is for.

[tmh88]

As an EE major I know how you feel. Winter quarter for me last year(we're on trimesters) seemed like it would never end. I was taking 3 lab classes, and calculus along with it. I don't think I've ever worked so hard in my life at school work, but i managed to get through it. I seriously spent like 4+ hours a day outside of class doing homework + weekends. I did really bad at calc just because I figured that I could keep my old studying habits, but i was definitely wrong. If you really want to be an EE major you can do it as long as you find the time to study.

ya as you get to higher level engineering classes the women are few and far between:confused:

I've met a total of 3 girls in the 6 engineering classes that I've taken.

[drasnor]

Senior aerospace engineering major reporting in.

Math has always pounded me in the hind. I don't think I've ever gotten better than a 'C' in any math course ever (what was I thinking getting into engineering, mirite?). I took my differential equations class three times. It's not something I'm proud of but I feel like I understand the subject pretty well at this point. Or at least well enough to where I get to tutor my friends when they run into trouble solving their ODEs. Friends are the best thing that has happened to me in class. If you don't get something, lean over and ask the person next to you. If they don't know, ask the person on the other side. If they don't know, ask the prof. If you're lucky you've now got two other people willing to form a study group with you ("Would y'all be willing to get together later at the library and work on this together? Cool, what time?"). Engineers have to take so much math that I only had to take one extra math class to get my math minor.

What everyone has said so far about study habits is absolutely right. As an engineer you have no social life. School must come first. Frat party tonight 'til 2? Buddies going to a movie at 10? 8AM class tomorrow with homework due in an afternoon class? Guess what, your evening will consist of "work on homework until 10, then sleep". Finish off the homework after your 8AM tomorrow for which you will arrive ten minutes early. Your buddies will understand and you can get together on Saturday when you hopefully don't have better things to do.

I squeaked by for two years with my old high school study habits and really trashed my GPR in the process. Do yourself a favor and treat school like a job. You're there 9 to 5 every day doing something productive (reading, homework, review, study) and then you go home and can take the afternoon/evening off if you're on schedule to get your assignments done. Try not to be doing anything school-related past 7 unless you've got an exam or project due soon.

-drasnor :fold:

[lightnin]

that was my college career as well, drasnor. high school was an alcohol festival, made awesome grades, went to college and continued to party it up my first two semesters... and then reality set in. busted my ass for the rest of my college career trying to fix the mistakes i made in those first two semesters.

my last finals week i was awake and working for three days straight... it wouldnt have been necessary had i not taken the classes i did in the order i did but still. you can't just party it up all the time and expect to do well. it took a lot of studying and a serious attitude change on my part. that being said, i think you pretty much get out of college what you put into it. i've been working a few years now, i graduated in 03. i can spot the new guys fresh out of college and you can definitely tell which ones took it seriously.

so yeah, work at it man. lots of people have a hard time with calc. and sometimes you get a crappy prof who doesnt want to take time to properly explain things... but hey man calc is calc, it's the same stuff all over the world. find some folks to study with, it can be sooo helpful to see things from someone else's perspective, plus you can make some friends (probably with common interests). good luck, and yeah take a pre-calc class, it really could make a world of difference.

--edit
Engineers have to take so much math that I only had to take one extra math class to get my math minor.

heh.. me too... and i *hate* math...

[QCH2002]

CS requires Calculus too, does it not?and yeah everywhere i've looked cs requires calc too.Take it from someone who crashed and burned in a Computer degree:

It all requires calc. Find a new major.I have an undergrad in Info. Sys., about to get a Master's in IS Mgmt. No calc needed, I suck at math.
All wrong... I earned a Bachelor of Arts in Computer Science. Graduated with honors. I did take Calculus but didn't need to. I took Calc because I thought I wanted to be an Architect. Calc killed that but I could have taken another math class to meet my math requirement. If you go with a Bachelor of Science you will probably need to take Calc since you need so many math and science hours and there are so many classes that require calc but not a Bachelors of Arts degree...

Take Calc and work you butt off. Pass the class and then make a decision. If you start getting into the habit of dropping a class when it looks tough, you'll train yourself to quit when it gets tough. Lets see what you're made of...

[RADA]

I took 15 yrs off between HS and College, wish I hadn't, but then again I'm not sure if I was mature enough to do what needed to be done when I was 18-25..

When I did go back I did exacly what Drasnor said, I treated college as a job. It was always the most important thing on my list. Movies, dating (I was single for almost the entire 5 yrs of school), other jobs(had lots of jobs while in school), and parting all went on the back burner. You need to think of this as THE most important thing you can do for yourself, and your future. I never missed a single class in either my Bachelors or Masters programs.

Tips:

1. Never give up on yourself.

2. Treat school like it is the most important thing in your life.

3. Ask for help, it's out there.

Whether you think you can, OR CAN'T do something, your right.....


*RADA gets down off his Orange-Crate stage.......

[the_technocrat]

All wrong... I earned a Bachelor of Arts in Computer Science. Graduated with honors. I did take Calculus but didn't need to. I took Calc because I thought I wanted to be an Architect.

I didn't say calc is bad, I said it wasn't necessary in IS or IS Mgmt. Either I naturally have some form of calculus knowledge, or it hasn't come up in IS. I haven't ever found myself saying 'man I really wish I knew calculus.' It just hasn't been necessary in what I've done, which is basically php/mysql dev, ruby/rails dev, computer tech, net admin, server admin, etc.

[QCH2002]

yeah... I haven't needed any advanced math in my real life IT job. That's what google and excel are for!!! ;D

[NiGHTS]

FWIW, USD has a requirement of Calc II for their computer science degrees. Apparently, YMMV.

/me shrugs

[QCH2002]

WAY too many acronyms in that post, NiGHTS... Translation please?

[lightnin]

Bachelor of Arts in Computer Science
--QCH2002

i bet all of ours are Bachelor of Science in CS. Makes quite a difference in required courses it sounds, cause i took a bunch of math.

i've never used raw calculus at work for anything either, but the methodology of solving higher math probs is very much alive and well in what i do. i've had to write language parsers, design some fairly intricate database schemas and write some pretty wild business rules that were on par with that level of thought process.

--edit
should have read your post closer.

but yeah, get past the crappy core classes and into your major stuff, things change and school can become somewhat fun, or at least interesting.

[NiGHTS]

WAY too many acronyms in that post, NiGHTS... Translation please?

Get CB to make me an achievement first!:p

For what it's worth, University of San Diego has a Calculus II requirement for their Computer Science degree. Apparently, your mileage may vary.

[jared]

My question is this: why the **** are you forcing yourself to decide in a matter of days or weeks?

If your school is like most colleges you can just stay undeclared and they will put you into the General Studies program or something similar.

ffs, you are only a 1st semester freshman. You will have at least 45-60 hrs of bull**** core classes to take before you even have to really worry getting into major specific stuff.

My advice is just stay undeclared, take all the basic classes you need (and believe me there is entirely too many), and think on it. Don't force yourself to decide overnight or you are just going to be one of those people that changes their majors 7 times before they graduate and all that does is waste your time and money.

good luck.

oh and if you want to do a mixture of business and computer (including various levels of programming) I would look into the INFO degrees as you mentioned. There is still math but it is much less than a CS degree which is just ridiculous.

[jared]

All wrong... I earned a Bachelor of Arts in Computer Science. Graduated with honors. I did take Calculus but didn't need to. I took Calc because I thought I wanted to be an Architect. Calc killed that but I could have taken another math class to meet my math requirement. If you go with a Bachelor of Science you will probably need to take Calc since you need so many math and science hours and there are so many classes that require calc but not a Bachelors of Arts degree...

Take Calc and work you butt off. Pass the class and then make a decision. If you start getting into the habit of dropping a class when it looks tough, you'll train yourself to quit when it gets tough. Lets see what you're made of...

It all depends on your school and where they put Computer Science. Here at Texas A&M CS is in the school of engineering. So if you plan to do CS you are going to end up taking almost the exact same math classes (meaning at least 5+ classes) and any of the other engineers. Which sucks because it makes CS a really difficult degree for most people but I think they figure it dramatically increases the quality of the CS majors they graduate.

cheers

[tmh88]

btw I just got a new house for next year because I'm an engineering major ;) Ok so I went to the office of the company that owns the house and filled out an application with 4 other friends. The guy was talking to us about our majors, what year we are, ect... Anyway he said that there were a few other applications in for the house but we seemed like the most serious students and he trusted us(i'm living with 2 other engineers). I cant believe we got the place. Its a 5 bedroom house, 4 years old. Has a big porch, central air, free parking, huge living room, a bar, and other random crap. So there you go, if your an engineer people assume you're a serious student! now to go study some more for my chem exam at 5.

[Sledgehammer70]

Having 2 degrees I can say School is evil... Math came pretty natural to me so it was never an issue. Being that 1 of my degrees is in architecture I would hope I know math :)

But in the end I myself had to take a few classes more than once as sometimes you just can't get things to click, a 2nd time in a class helped me with these issues.

Just be happy your issues are not like mine. I struggle in English which is apparent even in this post. I always did badly; when I was younger it was a huge issue that I had to see tutors etc... But even than I still have a long way to go. My fellow Icrontians have even helped me move forward with this issue.

My advice: Pick what you want to do, and go for it... the biggest issue I ran into was hanging out with others who changed their focus more than their underwear... making it hard not to want to do the same.

[mmonnin]

You will have at least 45-60 hrs of bull**** core classes to take before you even have to really worry getting into major specific stuff.

My advice is just stay undeclared, take all the basic classes you need (and believe me there is entirely too many), and think on it. Don't force yourself to decide overnight or you are just going to be one of those people that changes their majors 7 times before they graduate and all that does is waste your time and money.

Second that. My advice to people that are unsure about a degree is to AT LEAST attend a local CC for 1-2 years and after HS you might end up finding out about what you want to do, it may be something totally different than what you were thinking of at first.

[GHoosdum]

Heck I got my Master's degree three years ago and I still don't know what I want to do when I grow up. I've been working with the same company for the last eight years, but mainly for the money rather than the job satisfaction.

[FreeC8675]

Heck I got my Master's degree three years ago and I still don't know what I want to do when I grow up. I've been working with the same company for the last eight years, but mainly for the money rather than the job satisfaction.

But you is growed up! Your probably more so in the majority than the minority considering your situation. Most people work for the wrong reasons and then they go to "work" instead of "what they want to do". You live weekend to weekend doing that too.

[Keebler]

Don't force yourself to decide overnight or you are just going to be one of those people that changes their majors 7 times before they graduate and all that does is waste your time and money.
Indeed. I hedged my bets so well (and my school was so flexible on a per-student basis) I was able to change my major 3 months before I graduated when I decided to switch course from Social Studies Education to Technology in Education. Not only did it not add coursework (I'd taken plenty IT/CS courses since I'd been doing it as a quasi-minor) but I got to skip student teaching in the fall and thus graduated after 4 years instead of 4.5 (and I got to drop a course that spring that I wasn't enjoying much).

[Nomad]

Indeed. I hedged my bets so well (and my school was so flexible on a per-student basis) I was able to change my major 3 months before I graduated when I decided to switch course from Social Studies Education to Technology in Education. Not only did it not add coursework (I'd taken plenty IT/CS courses since I'd been doing it as a quasi-minor) but I got to skip student teaching in the fall and thus graduated after 4 years instead of 4.5 (and I got to drop a course that spring that I wasn't enjoying much).

It's not like that everywhere though. Both universities I've attended have major specific pre-reqs that make transferring after the end of your freshman/beginning of sophomore year very difficult to transfer in four years if they aren't in the same field.

Still, keep your options open. I went to college for political theory and constitutional democracy, now I'm doing art and graphic design at another university.

[Leonardo]

I went to college for political theory and constitutional democracy, now I'm doing art and graphic design at another university.

Hey Nomad, ever consider political art or graphic theory?

I can see you now, designing "Socialist Realism" posters. Big strapping dudes in dramatic poses next to monolithic factories with smokestacks. For the party!

[FreeC8675]

I wonder if andy is ever gonna post on his thread?