NF7 problems

[mmonnin]

I got this NF7-S for Christmas. I plug it all in, install a fresh copy of XP on and now am trying to OC. Cept I cant get vary far.

From default settings the board comes with I have changed CPU speed to user define and running at 200*10 now. Uped the vcore to 1.7, Chipset to max, and RAM to max. I also relaxed the timings to 8-3-3-2.5. Besides enabling Lan and disabling SATA RAID thats all that is different and I cant pass 3dmark default settings.

CPU: 1800+ DLT3C Week 21 of 03. Same one Geeky has that does 2.5GHz.
Motherboard: NF7-S
RAM: PC3500 HyperX
PSU: True Power 330W
HSF: SLk-900 w/Enermax Adjustable 92mm at max RPM.
Temp: 37C @Idle (I think I am going to put AS5 instead of the Ceramique stuff)

Latest BIOS from Flashmenu and latest nForce2 drivers.

Did I miss something? Is there something else that I need to change? Disable/Enable? What am I doing wrong?

I got higher OCs on my KX7 with another chip with the same steppings.

[GnomeWizardd]

got the new bios flashed on it?

//:edit didnt see that! I dont use the newest bios cause for some reason it doesnt work as well i use 1.8

[Templar]

Power supply maybe? :confused:

[Thrax]

Write down all your BIOS settings and post them back here.

[mmonnin]

I checked my temps with the hardware monitor and they were getting to above 50C after folding for awhile. The Ceramique is out the door. It was thick as hell anyway so there is probably too much of it on there.

I'll be back with all the BIOS settings.

[mmonnin]

SoftMenu
CPU Op Speed = User define
-External Clock = 170 Mhz
-Multi = 11.5
AGP Freq = 66 MHz
CPU FSB/DRAM Ratio
CPU interface = Disabled

Power Supply Controller
-vcore = 1.7
-vdimm = 2.9
-chipset = 1.7
-agp = 1.5

CPU opertemp=65C

Standard CMOS Features
Blah blah blah all default

Advanced Bios Features
Virus Warning = Disabled
Quick POST = Disabled
1st boot = Floppy
2nd = HDD-0
3rd = CDROM
Other = disabled
Swap floppy = disabled
Floppy seek - dis
numlock = on
Security option = setup
APIC mode = enabled
-MPS = 1.4
OS selected DRAM > 64mb = non-OS2
Report no FDD = disabled
delay ide = 0 sec

Advanced Chipset Feat
Mem timings = Expert
-Row active delay = 8
-Ras-cas = 3
-Row precharge = 3
-Cas latency = 2.5
System BIOS cachable = en
Video RAM cachable = en
AGP app size = 64m
FSB Spread spec = 0.50%
AGP " " = 0.50%
CPU thermal thottling = 50%
Enhance PCI performance = Dis
CPU disconnect - en
AGP data transfer rate = auto
AGP fast write = en

didnt change anything else besides LAN, and sata as I said above. Onboard IDE controllers are set to Auto PIO and Ultra DMA is disbaled for master and slave on both controllers

PCI latency is 32 clocks.

Anything else needed.

It did pass at 170*11.5 in 3dmark.

[mmonnin]

Power supply maybe? :confused:
Voltages are decent. About the same as before with my KX7. I have the same PSU. 3.3 is right on and 12 and 5 are only slightly under as in less than .1V

[Thrax]

Try these -- Bold denotes new setting.

CPU Op Speed = User define
-External Clock = 170 Mhz
-Multi = 11.5
AGP Freq = 66 MHz
CPU FSB/DRAM Ratio - 4/4
CPU interface = Disabled

Power Supply Controller
-vcore = 1.7
-vdimm = 2.9
-chipset = 1.7
-agp = 1.6

CPU opertemp=65C

Standard CMOS Features
Blah blah blah all default

Advanced Bios Features
Virus Warning = Disabled
Quick POST = Disabled
1st boot = HDD-0
2nd = disabled
3rd = disabled
Other = disabled
Swap floppy = disabled
Floppy seek - dis
numlock = on
Security option = setup
APIC mode = enabled
-MPS = 1.4
OS selected DRAM > 64mb = non-OS2
Report no FDD = disabled
delay ide = 0 sec

Advanced Chipset Feat
Mem timings = Expert
-Row active delay = 11
-Ras-cas = 3
-Row precharge = 3
-Cas latency = 2.5
System BIOS cachable = disabled
Video RAM cachable = disabled
AGP app size = 128m
FSB Spread spec = disabled
AGP " " = disabled
CPU thermal thottling = disabled
Enhance PCI performance = Dis
CPU disconnect - disabled
AGP data transfer rate = 4x
AGP fast write = disabled

[Geeky1]

Very strange. I can't offer much in the way of a definitive answer... I'll grab my BIOS settings for comparison, though.

However, just an observation- a number of people have bought NF7s in the past few weeks, and have posted about not being able to overclock much... I'm beginnning to wonder if the new boards are just extremely crappy overclockers for some reason... :hrm:

[TheLostSwede]

SoftMenu
CPU Op Speed = User define
-External Clock = 170 Mhz
-Multi = 11.5
AGP Freq = 66 MHz
CPU FSB/DRAM Ratio
CPU interface = Disabled Enabled

Power Supply Controller
-vcore = 1.7
-vdimm = 2.9
-chipset = 1.7 1.5
-agp = 1.5

CPU opertemp=65C

Standard CMOS Features
Blah blah blah all default

Advanced Bios Features
Virus Warning = Disabled
Quick POST = Disabled
1st boot = Floppy
2nd = HDD-0
3rd = CDROM
Other = disabled
Swap floppy = disabled
Floppy seek - dis
numlock = on
Security option = setup
APIC mode = enabled
-MPS = 1.4
OS selected DRAM > 64mb = non-OS2
Report no FDD = disabled
delay ide = 0 sec

Advanced Chipset Feat
Mem timings = Expert
-Row active delay = 8
-Ras-cas = 3
-Row precharge = 3
-Cas latency = 2.5
System BIOS cachable = en Disabled
Video RAM cachable = en Disabled
AGP app size = 64m
FSB Spread spec = 0.50% Disabled
AGP " " = 0.50% Disabled
CPU thermal thottling = 50% Disabled
Enhance PCI performance = Dis Enabled
CPU disconnect - en Disabled
AGP data transfer rate = auto
AGP fast write = en

didnt change anything else besides LAN, and sata as I said above. Onboard IDE controllers are set to Auto PIO and Ultra DMA is disbaled for master and slave on both controllers

PCI latency is 32 clocks.

Anything else needed.

It did pass at 170*11.5 in 3dmark.

I have made some changes in your post. That's how i suggest anyway.

[Thrax]

Very strange. I can't offer much in the way of a definitive answer... I'll grab my BIOS settings for comparison, though.

However, just an observation- a number of people have bought NF7s in the past few weeks, and have posted about not being able to overclock much... I'm beginnning to wonder if the new boards are just extremely crappy overclockers for some reason... :hrm:

My brother's new NF7, once I PFMed it into working.. Cruised along at a 230MHz FSB with my memory, and sat happily at 2.3GHz on a JIUCB/DUT3C Athlon. So... Not all of them! :D

[mmonnin]

OK I will try some of the changes Thrax suggested first. I set the ratio to 6:6 once and I still couldnt but there are others I havent messed with.

[mmonnin]

Well I tried both and neither will pass 3dmark at 200*10.

Thrax: By 'PFM' you mean the pin/wire mod to 166?

[csimon]

see this (http://www.short-media.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7869) thread ...most of that stuff is better off being disabled in advanced chipset features.
which slots is your ram plugged into and what vid card are you using (just curious)?

also try 5:5

[mmonnin]

First slot and a good ol' R8500LE

[Thrax]

PFM = pure ****ing magic. Heh.

[csimon]

are you using the p4 connector along with the atx connector?

[mmonnin]

No I didnt think AMDs needed that. I didnt even notice there was one on the motherboard til now. I always ignored it the extra wires. In fact they are prolly tied up behind the PSU somewhere.

[Thrax]

Supposedly they don't, as that cable is powered on the 12v rail and the CPUs use the 5v rail. But use it anyways.

[csimon]

I haven't seen an answer to whether it is needed or useful or not ...I have mine plugged in and it's working fine maybe give it a try.

you have one stick of ram I assume correct?

[csimon]

also ...why only 1.7v vcore?
marc it took a few weeks of running light on this board before I could get a good oc onit ...you may also need a good burn in period.

[mmonnin]

Yes one stick of 512 in bank 1.

I will try the 12V line and some more vcore.

[Geeky1]

I'd try the +12v, as csimon said, and bump the vcore to say, 1.8v...

Also, you may want to return everything to stock and run the SiSoft Sandra Burn In Wizard (both CPU tests & memory bandwidth tests) for a while (24-48hrs+)...

[MJO]

Well the 12V connecter is not needed.
But it is supposed to give more stability.
I didn't use it before I upgraded my PSU.
I booted fine and operated normally.
I had random reboots, but I guess that was because the PSU was to weak.

Summary.
It is not needed to operate but it can provide extra stability.

[lsevald]

The CPU is powered by the 12V rail on the NF7. Use the P4 connector :)

[TheLostSwede]

Yes, the 12V rail goes bananas without that connector.

[mmonnin]

12V line didnt help. I couldnt even get to this thread with folding running before I got the siren. Before it was just hard locking.

12V rail was 11.91 w/o the 12v line just like it was on my KX7.

[csimon]

what ram are you using in the kx7?

[mmonnin]

I was using the same stick I have now as the KX7 was the mobo in my main rig. I ordered some of that buffalo PC3200 from newegg for $32 that was supposed to be here yesterday but the dirver just put the sign on the door and never knocked and didnt leave it at the front of the apartment complex.

Rebooted on its own at 11*170.

[csimon]

damb fed ex employees I tellya!!! :nudge: !!!
what ratio are you using 6:6 5:5 4:4? what vcore?
disable f@h for now.

[mmonnin]

4:4 and 1.8V. With the RAM I also had some AS5 in there as well.

[csimon]

try 5:5
you have as5 in the ram heatspreaders?

[mmonnin]

I havent dont anything to the HyperX. The AS5 I should get on Monday if they deliver it. I have had some AS3 and I got some Ceramique for Christmas. Thats what is on my CPU now but was really thick and stiff when I put it on and I think thats why I am getting higher temps than before with less of an OC.

[csimon]

ya ditch the ceramique for the as3 til later ...that's what I did.

[mmonnin]

Hmm I turned on FAH right after that post and it froze like right away. I was up for about 30 min before that but once I turn it on it freezes.

[keto]

Nah, Ceramique is thick and stiff natively, I highly doubt that's the problem (tho I don't have any other usefull suggestions so I'll go away now)

[csimon]

sounds like it's getting hot to me.
here fill this out so we can see where you are now.
I would at least remove the -forcesse til you get this thing stable.

SoftMenu III Setup

CPU Operating Speed: User Defined
X - CPU Ext Clk (CPU/DRAM): 200
X - Multiplier Factor: x10
AGP Frequency: 66
CPU FSB/DRAM ratio: 6/6
CPU Interface: Disabled

Power Supply Controller: User Defined
X – CPU Core Voltage: 1.85v
X – DDR SDRAM Voltage: 2.8v
X – Chipset Voltage: 1.7v
X – AGP Voltage: 1.7v

Advanced Chipset Features

Memory Timings: Expert
- Row-active delay: 11
- Ras-to-CAS delay: 2
- Row-precharge delay: 2
- CAS Latency Time: 2
System Bios Cacheable: Disabled
Video RAM Cacheable: Disabled
AGP Aperture Size: 64M
FSB Spread Spectrum: Disabled
AGP Spread Spectrum: Disabled
CPU Thermal-Throttling: Disabled
Enhanced PCI Performance: Enabled
CPU Disconnect Function: Disabled
AGP Data Transfer Rate: Auto
AGP Fast Write Capability: Enabled

[mmonnin]

Reapplied AS3 and I got the siren on default 1800+ speeds. Running at 1150mhz now at 43C!!! Thats more than what I ran 2.15 with an SLK-800 and 53 CFM instead of 1150, SLK-900 and 64 CFM. What the hell. And thats at idle compared to the full load and got 39.5 with SLK-800 and mechatronics fan.

[mmonnin]

OK tried from scratch again. Went to fail-safe settings. Posted ok. Optimizated - ok. Then tried user define ok. 5/5 - ok. User-define ok. 1.5 ok. 1.525 ok. 1.55 ok. 1.575 got the siren when the BIOS tried to save. Back down to 1.55 but windows rebooted. Down to 1.525 or just 1.5 now. Cant do a damn thing now.

Hmm I rebooted and hardware monitor said 45 and now its at 39.5. Best since I put in the NF7. When I started the last line it said 39.5 when I finished it said 38.5. Now 38. Bout freakin time!!! Thats at idle tho at defaul 1800+ speeds. I got around 40 at 2.15 SLK-800 and less CFM before.

[csimon]

Is that the same chip that came out of the kx7 or a new one?

[GnomeWizardd]

off topic: Anyone think of Coaster when they see MJO's av??

[mmonnin]

Same stepping on both.

Was down to 36C (I had left for a few minutes, now up to 41.)

I do.

[mmonnin]

It cant even pass Sandra burn in wizard. Like the first step in it.

So is it a bad motherboard? Can drivers make it do this?

[GnomeWizardd]

temps are wierd. Is this the bios reading the temp or an outside temp reader? Its always a possibility it could be reading it high or just for fact it is high in temp. Try a diff fan maybe a diff case fan in the back blowing more air in. Try a diff cpu in it and burn it in. Then if that fails i would switch the ram out and run it. If that fails its the board causing it to fail :werr:

[mmonnin]

Hmm I am looking at my KX7 and it has APIC mode as disabled. Would that effect something?

[Thrax]

APIC was disabled on the KX7 because it didn't work. On the NF7-S, however, it works very well.

[Al_Capown]

MMoninn,

My recommendation is to see if you can find a more powerful psu that gives more than just 17A on the +12V rail. Tha_Noname (guy in abit forums) recommends that if you have a modern cpu, p4;AXP, then you should have a psu that gives at least 15A on the +12V, but I'm guessing that's for non overclocking rigs.

Also in the nf7-s FAQ's Tha_Noname posted he says, "Very many on this forum say that the rev2.0 of the nf7 may require a higher rated psu than earlier revisions.. so try to stick with at least a 360w and higher (of a good quality brand)".

So if you have a friend who could lend you a beefier psu I'd recommend you try that.

[mmonnin]

How many more watts does the NF7 need over the KX7? Surely its not that much to make my system go over the edge?

For some reason I think its the temps. I did a scan with Ad-Aware and when it got to like 47.5-48C it froze. Shutdown temps are no where near that.

I am going to be doing a reinstall of everything later on today to see if that helps.

[Al_Capown]

All I'm saying is to test it just to either toss it out of the window as a possibility or find your problem :-/

Sorry if I missed this, but what bios are you running?

[mmonnin]

Latest BIOS from the Flashmenu windows thing.

I dont really have another more powerful PSU. I will be getting a 350 Antec with an Antec case on monday I think if the Fed Ex guy delivers it. I think has some stonger rails but its not a true power.

[Al_Capown]

Nope. On newegg it says the 350 psu gives out just 16A @ +12V rail. :-/

[Straight_Man]

Marc, in re Ceramique and thin.... Get a nylon putty knife or a pot scraper made of nylon. Run a bead across width of core, about 1\8th in from one end. use putty knife with handle removed if needed, and hold at about a 30 degree angle, draw across core. Use rubbing alcohol or purish Isoprophyl alcohol (I use 91% alcohol)and a rag or a paper towel to remove excess from around core. Let alcohol dry and evaporate, then apply heatsink. APPLY small amounts of Alcohol to paper towel or rag, not to CPU, this is for others who did opposite and wondered why it took forever to dry, somewhere.... :D


IMPORTANT:
Expect it to cure in over 200 hours of operation, to 250 hours. The first temps will be like high, it should drop 5-8 C over a week's time. I set my monitor\temp software to alarm at 58 C (was showing 53 C under heavy load first day after Ceramique), after a week my Barton was at about 47 C average, while folding one instance at LOW priority and running other things also (like Corel Draw, Opera, etc.).

Ceramique is not a fast cure HS compound, it needs 200 hours to cure in and after 200 to 250 hours it will be down 5-8 degrees on average from first uncured temp.

50 C will NOT hurt a Barton, above about 60 C might do so.

John.

[mmonnin]

Well I took the Hs off and it didnt have full contact with the core. So thats why I was getting the siren.

Well I bought the PSU with a case but I looked and that still only has 16As on the 12V line. It has more on the 3.3 and 5V rails tho.

Stock 1800+ speeds full load at 39C. So that should go down a little bit once the AS3 cures.

Ageek: I remember reading a review on Ceramique and the temps kept going down the longer they tested while others leveled off.

I still cant boot at 200*10 tho. Pissin me off.

[muddocktor]

I've had the "no full contact" thing happen to me before a couple of times. It was making good enough contact with the core to keep from smoking the proc but was running really high temps and couldn't even get to the proc's rated speed. If it's a new build, I try to mount the proc and hsf before installing in the case nowdays, so that I can look carefully at it all around to make sure nothing is interfering with the hsf from making full contact. Also, I would highly recommend a quality psu of above 400 watts rating for a highly overclocked barton or P4 rig. It's better to err on the high side than on the low side for good power delivery.

[mmonnin]

I did put the HSF outside the case because with the Cheiftec type case its hard to latch the HS because of the positioning of the socket and the horizontal bar. Then I put the AS3 but didnt feel like taking everything out. The SLK-900 doesnt have enough of a lip to go over the raised part by the latch. Thats the reason for the high temps but it still doesnt get anywhere.

[TheLostSwede]

Hmmm...sure that there is good contact now?

What happens if you boot with 11 instead? Multi 10 and 10.5 is weird on this board. VERY weird. It adds/removes timings that the others don't.

[mmonnin]

Yeah temps are fine now or at least dont go up like 10C when I go full load.

I tried the Clockgen for the NF7 and it wont go past 173FSB at an 8 multi. Tried twice.

[Geeky1]

Al, the guy @ the ABIT forums that recommends 360w+ PSes is an idiot. Obviously, he has no idea what he's talking about. A good 300-350w PS is more than sufficient for 99% of systems. The only exceptions are the most heavily loaded single-cpu systems, and dual Athlon/Xeon systems.

I've run 1.4GHz Thunderbird systems off 250w PSes, and my 1.04 A7N8X has had CPUs up to 2.4GHz on a 350w Antec SL350.

[mmonnin]

Thats the PSU thats coming in my case. The SL350.

Switched CPUs and it still rebooted at 174.

Edit: I booted at 8*174 with settings in the BIOS.
Edit: Clockgen, Sandra, and CPU-Z says its 175 tho???
Edit: Up to 200FSB in Clockgen and it hasnt crashed yet.
Edit: Crashed at 208FSB in clockgen.

[Geeky1]

mmonnin, what BIOS are you using? I didn't see it mentioned, but I didn't look too hard, either...

[Al_Capown]

Latest BIOS from the Flashmenu windows thing.


My guess is that's bios 20. I'm beginning to believe that the latest bios impedes overclocks. As when I was running it the highest fsb I could get was 211 and right now I'm @ 215 @ 1.6vcore and the cpu just needs more voltage to reach 225 or above :D

Park had the same problem and switching from bios 20 to bios 17 helped him go from 211 to 230-240ish.

However Thrax is also using bios 20 and he's running at high fsbs, so I wouldn't conclude that bios 20 is the culprit just yet.

[Thrax]

I run 230FSB 2/2/2 on bios v20.

//EDIT: Mwah. I always throw the results off. heh.

[mmonnin]

OK I will try that next. I got the latest BIOS which is prolly 20. I used the Flashmenu and downloaded it.

[Al_Capown]

Make sure you turn off EVERYTHING before you flash.

[mmonnin]

What do you mean everything? I did it with the Flashmenu in Windows with IE open prolly. And which version is best? 17? 18?

[Al_Capown]

What do you mean everything? I did it with the Flashmenu in Windows with IE open prolly. And which version is best? 17? 18?

By everything I mean... Before you open flashmenu, ctrl alt del, select username, close everything under your username besides explorer.exe, open abit flashmenu and proceed to flash.

Which version of the flashmenu or which bios version? I can't answer either one :-/

[mmonnin]

Flashed to BIOS 19 and am now running at 9.5*200.

[Thrax]

;D

[MJO]

I just popped in my Athlon Tbred and set the multiplier and FSB to 200/10.
I also upped the vcore to 1.7.
I has been running flawlessly at this speed since early may.
I believe I started out with bios 15. (Depends on what bios the rev 2.0 was shipped with?)

Everything is maxed out in bios.
Do you want to see my bios settings as well?

EDIT: All other voltages is at default.
That includes, agp voltage and chipset voltage.

[seversphere]

Flashed to BIOS 19 and am now running at 9.5*200.

what about 10 * 200? How about 9.5 * 210?

[Straight_Man]

In re Ceramique taking a LONG time to cure in-- my Barton 2500+ CPU is running about 14-15C above case tempurature at this point, 40-43 C under full load(depends on ambient in case, which floats from 25-30 C depending on room temps). What Ceramique does, is first bond, then the vehicle vaporizes over time. the remaining stuff is like ceramic thermal-only conductor. I have been using this box a lot, CPU acording to mbm5 has been 100% load for over 72 hours at last look in logs (which I have on a 30 min cycle, 1000 lines max).

Ceramique LIKES a high-heat cure.

John-- folding a p1039 at less than 5 min per percentage point, estimate an 8-9 hour turn in time per p1000 WU out of the Barton at this time as WU percentage completion time is decreasing as WU work progresses. I have client on LOW (not idle) priority, all option switches active (-forceasm, -forcesse, -advmethods all specified in run shortcut both on desktop and in program files startup icons).

[mmonnin]

I am running at 9.5*210 now. I left it like that overnight since I ran 3dmark several times at that speed. It did exit out of 3dmark several times and froze around 8:30.

[seversphere]

I am running at 9.5*210 now. I left it like that overnight since I ran 3dmark several times at that speed. It did exit out of 3dmark several times and froze around 8:30.

mmonnin see if lowering your chipset voltage from 1.7 to 1.6 or 1.5 helps

[mmonnin]

Why would that help? I would think it needs more voltage because I am past its rated speed. It did run all day. Its at 44C now.

I dont think I said it but I did AS3 the northbridge fan HS. Thing looks cool but I dont think it does much at all.

[mmonnin]

I've read a little bit at the Abit forums and it seems like d10.bin is the best BIOS for overclocking. It also says there are compatibility issues with HyperX which is what I have. I dont know what BIOS to use. BIOS 14 is the first one that has the fixed hyperx issues.

http://forum.abit-usa.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31559

[mmonnin]

I tried 210*10 and it wouldnt even boot. Remembering the 10 and 10.5 multi problems I tried 11 which worked. Running at 2.3 now. 3dmark crashed sometimes but FAH has been stable so far.

I am gonna have to try the 166 FSB mod and a different BIOS so see if I can get a higher FSB.

[polarys425]

i noticed in your first post, you had the chipset voltage "up'ed to the max".

is it still maxed out? at 200fsb default voltage is enough, and it could be that with the stock northbridge fan, its generating to much heat.

[TheLostSwede]

I tried 210*10 and it wouldnt even boot. Remembering the 10 and 10.5 multi problems I tried 11 which worked. Running at 2.3 now. 3dmark crashed sometimes but FAH has been stable so far.

I am gonna have to try the 166 FSB mod and a different BIOS so see if I can get a higher FSB.

Good work. Just what i said about 15 posts up. 10 and 10.5 is junk on all bioses except D10.

[mmonnin]

OK I got the 10d Bios and I L12 modded my CPU to 166. My lowest option for my 1800+ in the BIOS is a 2600+ so I think it worked.

I did notice that it was the green packaging and I could see the traces running across the chip. I thought that meant it was locked and couldnt be wire modded?

It looks kinda like this.
http://www.short-media.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2464&stc=1

[mmonnin]

Same one.

Not FAH stable at 11.5*205 or anything above that speed. Wont boot into windows at 12*200 either. Seems like 200*11.5 is the best I can do even with the mod and a better OCing BIOS. Guess I am stuck at 2.3.

[LawnMM]

Are we sure we have good heatsink cpu contact here?

[mmonnin]

Temps are good. 46C now but it will down a few since I just put on some AS5 and that will take a few days to cure.