Finally! New Mechwarrior news!

[mertesn]

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/07/mechwarrior-franchise-to-get-a-reboot.ars

[Thrax]

Nerds: BuddyJ, myself and Drasnor have been talking about this on IRC & Twitter for a couple hours now. Love MW? Get in on the action and join IRC! http://icrontic.com/irc

[mertesn]

Nerds: BuddyJ, myself and Drasnor have been talking about this on IRC & Twitter for a couple hours now. Love MW? Get in on the action and join IRC! http://icrontic.com/irc
Can't do that in the office... :(

[MAGIC]

Can't do that in the office... :(

your not trying hard enough.

[RyderOCZ]

Can't do that in the office... :(They block Mibbit?

[kryyst]

Screw Mechwarrior (yeah I said it) I want Smith and Tinker to do something with Crimson Skies.

But you know, this is still good news. Oh and while they are at it lets put a real Shadowrun game out there. Not that piece of crap FPS.

[TiberiusLazarus]

They block Mibbit?

My office blocks mibbit...

Also:

HOLY HELL NEW MECH GAME FOR PC! I don't know how long I've been wishing for one.

[mertesn]

They block Mibbit?
No, but I like my job. Company policy says no IRC (and various other chat programs), so it's reserved for telecommuting days.

[_k_]

I am going to rock this game like a hurricane!

[Gargoyle]

Finally, time to unpack the Sidewinder joystick.

I'd love to join you nerds in IRC, but frankly, I don't know how you do it and stay productive. I'll just tell you this: fear my LBX frump.

[Thrax]

I see your LBX and raise you a Jenner with LRM-20s and a Beagle Active Probe.

[_k_]

PPC, Gauss Rifle, and LRM's. Reserve the ER battery for snipping off legs.

[Grimnoc]

Holy PPC's, Batman! This is the best news since AvP 3 was officially announced. Unfortunately, it's also a reboot being made for the Xbox as well as the PC. In other words, say bye to the sim you knew and loved.

Still, should be fun.

[Thrax]

Grim: It's being made by a studio run by the founder of FASA. FASA. You know, the company that invented MechWarrior and BattleTech.

[Buddy J]

Reading the interview gave me the opposite impression. They give the impression that they're trying to build on the sim aspect more, allowing a more-realistic and non-linear gameplay style that'll require more strategy and co-work.

[Gargoyle]

I see your LBX and raise you a Jenner with LRM-20s and a Beagle Active Probe.

Well played, sir.

PPC, Gauss Rifle, and LRM's. Reserve the ER battery for snipping off legs.

Effective, sure. But what's the fun in blowing up your opponent if you can barely see them on the horizon?

Hopefully the topography will be varied enough for me to continue pursuing my ninja shotgun approach.

[Grimnoc]

I realize who it's being made by, and for that I'm glad.

But, it is still cross-platform and while that is not neccessarily always a bad thing, in this situation it does mean that they will have to develop a game that works well on both formats and a gamepad simply cannot do a full-fledged sim.

*What's this about an interview? I must have missed it.

[Grimnoc]

On top of that whenever the word 'reboot' is thrown around it almost always means that there are at least some significant changes to the original project, whether it be videogames, books, movies, etc.

[Grimnoc]

Nvm, just found that interview....reading....

[_k_]

Garg, I run everything with jumpjets so I can pop into sight and cut loose. Nothing like an 100 ton mech flying through the air launching rockets and shooting lasers into the wild blue yonder.

[Koreish]

I vaguely remember a friend of mine playing this a while back, looked pretty spiffy. Never played it myself though.

[Grimnoc]

Hmmmm, I just read the interview and some of the things they are aiming for sound pretty tantalizing (co-op, putting on emphasis on the value of mechs, more class emphasis, etc), but I'm still skeptical of how much sim they are going to build into it.

It does look like it'll be a blast to play though! (hopefully :) )

[Thrax]

Given the nature of analog sticks, the controller is actually more suited to play MechWarrior than your average PC.

[Grimnoc]

Ha, I will agree with you there (although in most circumstances I much, much, much prefer mouse and keyboard to console controllers), excepting a joystick which I consider to be the best option for MechWarrior-ing around.

[Gargoyle]

My only wish is that I had bought a joystick with yaw axis rotation. A friend of mine had a fancy Sidewinder that had it (Ghaleon4 on the forums), but I kept accidentally engaging it while playing Freespace. That would be perfect for torso rotation in Mechwarrior, though.

I should have put in tickets for the joystick giveaway at the LAN :(

[UPSLynx]

the analog sticks are great for controlling a mech, true, but lack of enough buttons kills potential. Do you remember the sheer number of commands in mech Warrior 3? It was like playing a flight sim, the entire keyboard was used.

They have to simply gameplay controls to fit on the small number of inputs on a gamepad.

That alone rules out the 'full sim' potential.

[primesuspect]

So yeah, the Thrustmaster T16000.M suddenly just got a lot more valuable

[Grimnoc]

Playing MechWarrior with a joystick that had the twist function was a joy. Pure, unadulterated joy.

[Thrax]

the analog sticks are great for controlling a mech, true, but lack of enough buttons kills potential. Do you remember the sheer number of commands in mech Warrior 3? It was like playing a flight sim, the entire keyboard was used.

They have to simply gameplay controls to fit on the small number of inputs on a gamepad.

That alone rules out the 'full sim' potential.

Honestly, let's look at what it would take to pilot a mech on a controller:

Leg turn (analog stick)
Torso turn (Analog stick)
Torso pitch (Analog stick)
Cycle sensor
Activate sensor
Cycle weapon
Group weapon
Fire weapon
Jumpjets
Change target

The 360 has enough buttons to accommodate all of these functions, and there's not much else a mech requires. Maybe change camera?

Maps and tactical information can be accessed from a pause menu.

[MAGIC]

So yeah, the Thrustmaster T16000.M suddenly just got a lot more valuable

Yeah, ive never played any mech games but this looks cool.

[Gargoyle]

That alone rules out the 'full sim' potential.

What are the "sim" elements people are talking about? I'm guessing the sim elements were in #3, but I only played 2 & 4.

[Grimnoc]

===========================================================================
MECHWARRIOR 3
CONTROLS GUIDE
===========================================================================
Section 2: Controls List
===========================================================================

*****************
Movement Controls
*****************
Forward throttle Up
Reverse throttle Down
Turn left Left
Turn right Right
Twist left ,
Twist right .
Pitch up -
Pitch down =
Center torso to legs Shift /
Center legs /
Toggle throttle direction Backspace
0% throttle 1
10% throttle 2
30% throttle 3
40% throttle 4
50% throttle 5
60% throttle 6
70% throttle 7
80% throttle 8
90% throttle 9
100% throttle 0
Jump jet J
Jump jet reverse End
Jump jet left Del
Jump jet right Pg Dn
Rotate left Insert
Rotate right Pg Up
Get up G
Crouch C
Startup/shutdown S
Toggle MASC V

***************
Weapon Controls
***************
Fire weapon Space or Left-mouse-button
Next weapon group ]
Previous weapon group [
Previous weapon in group Ctrl+[
Next weapon in group Ctrl+]
Next weapon Enter
Weapon group 1 F1
Weapon group 2 F2
Weapon group 3 F3
Weapon group 4 F4
Weapon group 5 F5
Assign weapon to group 1 Shift+F1
Assign weapon to group 2 Shift+F2
Assign weapon to group 3 Shift+F3
Assign weapon to group 4 Shift+F4
Assign weapon to group 5 Shift+F5
Toggle fire mode \
Alpha strike Numpad enter
Flush coolant F
Override thermal shutdown O
Jettison ammo Shift+K

*************
View Controls
*************
Cycle camera mode X
Look left Alt+Numpad 4
Look right Alt+Numpad 6
Look up Alt+Numpad 2
Look down Alt+Numpad 8
Look back Alt+Numpad .
Look forward Alt+Numpad 5
Cycle resolution Shift+V

******************
Targeting Controls
******************
Target next enemy E
Target previous enemy Shift+E
Target nearest enemy Ctrl+E
Target next ally W
Target previous ally Shift+W
Target nearest ally Ctrl+W
Target object under reticule Q
Clear target selection T
Target head Numpad 8
Target left arm Numpad 7
Target right arm Numpad 9
Target center torso Numpad 5
Target left torso Numpad 4
Target right torso Numpad 6
Target left leg Numpad 1
Target right leg Numpad 3

****************
Cockpit Controls
****************
Zoom reticule Z
Lock zoom reticule Numpad 0
Toggle torso mode Ctrl+Numpad 0
Freelock L or Right-mouse-button
Toggle damage display D
Toggle enemy damage display Ctrl+D
Toggle radar size R
Toggle radar mode Alt+R
Toggle radar map Shift+R
Toggle HUD on/off H
Toggle AMS on/off A

**********************
Communication Controls
**********************
Attack my target F6
Defend my target F7
Follow me F8
Hold position F9
Repair in MFB F10
Lancemate command screen F11
Lock awaiting orders Shift+F11
Cancel awaiting orders Ctrl+F11
Order MFB M
Next op point N
Previous op point Shift+N
Nearest op point Ctrl+N
Send message to team Numpad -
Send message to all Numpad *

****************
Mission Controls
****************
Mission objectives F12
Exit mission Ctrl+Q
Message window `

[Thrax]

All of those can be condensed down into the buttons I outlined.

Seriously, nobody needs a button for every 10% of the throttle. Nobody needs to look around in the cockpit when there's a HUD. Orders can be controlled with an on-screen radial interface. Weapon group assignments can be managed with 2 buttons: assign and cycle.

So on and so forth. MW2's control set was absurdly complicated for no particular reason.

[Grimnoc]

Okay, my main point is simply this; the Xbox 360 control scheme does not allow for the complicated sim nature of the older MechWarrior games. That's simply it. The new Mechwarrior looks to be a great game and I'll most likely buy it, but that is completely seperate from the truth of the matter.

Get up, crouch, flush coolants, jettison ammo, targetting specific parts of the enemy mech, start-up & shut-down, and yes, turning your head are all sim-like functions that were integral to making the MechWarrior games into what they were; action-y, sim-y mech combat-y games.

Are the controls a tad cumbersome? Yes. Could they be refined? Sure they could, but in doing so you will sacrifice some of (once again, let me hear it!) the sim nature of MechWarrior.

Yeah, you could replace look-around controls with a static HUD, but this illustrates my point precisely. The looking around is the sim aspect that will be lost. It's unnecessary to a degree, but it is there to put you in the mech and make you the pilot, just as pilots in real life can look around in their cockpits, so can you in the mech. This isn't a video game that directly translates your input to a mech which moves like an action hero. It is a game which simulates the experience of placing a 100 ton piece of machinery between your control input and the results you seek. Taking this aspect out of MechWarrior is like taking Max Payne, shaving off his hair, placing a beard on him, sticking him in Mexico, making him teenage angsty, and still trying to call it noir. Can it be a great game? Absolutely. Is it noir? No. Is Max Payne noir? Yes. Now, you call the disconnect.

[Gargoyle]

Taking this aspect out of MechWarrior is like taking Max Payne, shaving off his hair, placing a beard on him, sticking him in Mexico, making him teenage angsty, and still trying to call it noir. Can it be a great game? Absolutely. Is it noir? No. Is Max Payne noir? Yes. Now, you call the disconnect.

What if Max Payne were bald and fat (http://www.joystiq.com/2009/06/09/whoa-max-payne-is-a-total-slob/)? Still noir, just a different attitude.

[_k_]

I looked around a lot, when you split two mechs and the torso rotation speed isn't enough to get that last salvo off you need to look right to swing an arm farther some times. Honestly if they cut down the massive number of functions it would not be the same game on the PC. I had all the control buttons on my sidewinder programmed for something that got used, and yes I require the 10%, prefer <5%, intervals in throttle control so I can combat all weight classes.

[drasnor]

I started playing MW on my MS Sidewinder Precision Pro. It's still a great joystick, but I've moved on to the Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar w/ TM Elite Pedals. Twist sticks are great but the pedals give you a lot more control. Your torso never twists uncommanded in the middle of turning and the awesome factor of having to stomp on something all the time never gets old. I'm saving up for some Simpeds (http://www.flugsimulator.de/hse/simped.htm) though so I can map the jump jets to my toe brakes...

Also, MW3 controls can easily be mapped down to control pads by mapping one button as a Shift button. This allows you to swap layouts at a simple press which is great for making sure you fire the correct TIC or popping into Free Look for that difficult snipe shot. The real trouble is the dead zones on the analog sticks for most gamepads.

-drasnor :fold:

[Gargoyle]

... and yes I require the 10%, prefer <5%, intervals in throttle control so I can combat all weight classes.

I just use the throttle on the joystick for that.

[_k_]

I do normally but some times the throttle doesn't want to stop where I want it to so I have used key commands a lot. But I really just can't wait for this game no matter what it turns into.

[Grimnoc]

I do normally but some times the throttle doesn't want to stop where I want it to so I have used key commands a lot. But I really just can't wait for this game no matter what it turns into.

I'm with you there _k_!

[UPSLynx]

All of those can be condensed down into the buttons I outlined.

Seriously, nobody needs a button for every 10% of the throttle. Nobody needs to look around in the cockpit when there's a HUD. Orders can be controlled with an on-screen radial interface. Weapon group assignments can be managed with 2 buttons: assign and cycle.

So on and so forth. MW2's control set was absurdly complicated for no particular reason.

I disagree with you. It wasn't overly complicated, I used almost every one of those crazy controls. Once you mastered the control set, you became an incredibly formidable player online. Being able to look right and swing your arm out for a shot, like K said, is very valuable. Ammo jettison could save your life in many occasions. 10% Throttle increments are essential (very much in the way 'matching speed' in tie fighter worked), directional controls for jump jets to assure proper death from above procedures, manic coolant flushes to keep yourself from overheating, always keeping the temps at a critical level and hovering dangerously near to a critical reactor.

And oh! how many times did I punch the alpha strike key in a final, desperate attempt to survive a bout?

MechAssault was a great game, very fun. But it lost the depth that the MW series had. The complete customization of your mech from color/camo down to individual heat sinks and where they were located. You spent almost just as much time setting up your mech in the MW series as you did completing missions. MechAssault removed almost all of these details, which drove it further away from it's tabletop roots. It was a good game, but certainly a console game.

Garg, that's the kind of stuff that we mean when we talk sim elements. MW4 certainly had them, though to a lesser extent than 3. They kept the complexity while trimming the fat on some of the more nitpicky items. Alpha strike, for instance, was no longer a command in 4. Many purists (myself included) complained about the omission of such a canon-defining attack.

[RWB]

I'd like to see a new MechCommander game for sure if this game does well. First thing my brother and friends(who knew me back in the day) said when I told them MW5 was coming was something along the lines of "nice knowing you". MW2 was my game, MW3 was my venture into online gaming and tournament play, MW4 was just a good time before the end but it was not my fav. Mech Assault wasn't my fortay but it was alright and MechCommander was good fun as well. I don't think they made a MW game I didn't like but MW2 is still my fav. Reading the novels especially the ones by Micheal Stackpole and knowing the history of the universe was and still is something I enjoy doing.

[chrisWhite]

Oh boy, I'm soooo excited! Just need to buy a good stick and replace my POS computer and this is going to rock! Mech Warrior 2 was the pinnacle of my love for the series but I certainly enjoyed 4 as well.

[UPSLynx]

I'd like to see a new MechCommander game for sure if this game does well.


I would LOVE a new mechcommander game as well. I was obsessed with the first MC game, it was one of the first PC games I bought (if you don't count the old stuff we played on our old 386).

My brother and I would spend hours in the mission editor (we had the gold edition) and putting together impossibly difficult scenarios and ramping up the resource limit, so there would be a ton of mechs on the battlefield, and missions would take well over an hour just to complete, if you could stay alive. At the end, mech parts littered every inch of the battlefield.

Mechcommander 1 is, in fact, where I got my forum name. Lynx was my favorite mechwarrior in that game, and my brother liked Hitman, which is where he got his name as well.

[Grimnoc]

Yeah, I preferred the first MechCommander over the second one.

[Thrax]

I wanted to bump this with a fantastic narrated analysis of the game trailer: http://pc.ign.com/dor/objects/18954/mech-warrior-project/videos/mechwarrior_spc_rewindtheaterr_070809.html

They rightly pointed out several elements I had missed in my fanboy fapping, namely the attention paid to timelines, Inner Sphere politicking, and some environmental/cockpit effects that I didn't notice.

[UPSLynx]

argh, I can't believe I didn't see those federated suns banners.

This is a great video, thanks for linking it.

It reminds me that I need to get back into picking apart Battletech canon. I haven't read any of the novels in awhile. I love battletech politics.

Man I'm excited for this game.