More Government BS???

[RADA]

I've heard stories that if you go onto the government's Cash for Clunkers website ( or any .gov website as a matter of fact) that it states in the Privacy statement that while you're connected to any .gov site your PERSONAL COMPUTER is now considered a goverment asset. Meaning they can search your PC for anything they want.

Is this is true? Snopes?

Yes? No?

[Thrax]

False.

[ardichoke]

That has got to be the most absurd thing I've heard since the birthers.

[pigflipper]

*facepalm*

[RADA]

I wouldn't have said anything, but I got the info from a usually credible source....

I'll call him tonight for more info, or to give him an over the phone b*tch-slap to the back of the head....

[lunchb0x]

http://www.dot.gov/privacy.html

Just read through that and I didn't see anything related to what was stated. I did see a similar thread to this on 4chan earlier and apparently the information is coming from the <sarcasm>Always Right</sarcasm> Glen Beck.

[ardichoke]

Disclaimer: Glen Beck is only always right under certain circumstances, those circumstances pertain only to the world that exists in his head and in no way are indicative of the state of the actual world the rest of us exist in. Long term exposure to Glen Beck may cause paranoia, loss of free will, religious fundamentalism, nausea, nearsightedness or the feeling that Bill O'Reilly suddenly seems credible.

[RADA]

Disclaimer: Glen Beck is only always right under certain circumstances, those circumstances pertain only to the world that exists in his head and in no way are indicative of the state of the actual world the rest of us exist in. Long term exposure to Glen Beck may cause paranoia, loss of free will, religious fundamentalism, nausea, nearsightedness or the feeling that Bill O'Reilly suddenly seems credible.

Think Bill is one of the most honest, credible, journalists I've ever watched. Where is your basis, Keith Oberman?

[Thrax]

Posting in a legendary thread.

[Snarkasm]

I like where this thread is goin'.

[NiGHTS]

in b4 lock.

[RADA]

loss of free will, religious fundamentalism

I sorry, most here know I'm a political conservative, and make no apologies for being so.

But statements like this piss me off. I'm an atheist, so what what religious fundamentalism do I fit under?

How "open-mined" are you being, stereotyping all conservatives, or libertarians like this?

[Snarkasm]

He wasn't saying you were a religious fundamentalist. He was saying exposure to Glen Beck might cause religious fundamentalism.

[Grimnoc]

As far as I know it's true.

I first heard of it on Mises.org

[Koreish]

Internets and pundits are the bestest sources of informations. They told me so.

[Gnome Queen]

No, the internet and my Uncle Larry are the best sources of information. They've both read the encyclopedia and stuff.

[Winfrey]

I wish I had an Uncle Larry that could read...

[Quady the Turnip]

So, stupid question time. What is this Cash for Clunkers thing?

[Snarkasm]

The government program that will give you money for old cars that get crappy gas mileage if you trade them in to get a better one. If you have a car that was made in the last 25 years and gets less than 18mpg, if you trade it in to get a new car that gets +5mpg than you used to, you get $3500; if you get a car that gets +10mpg than you used to, it's $4500.

[Thrax]

Cash for Clunkers is a bill that was run through US congress with an initial funding of $1 billion. It's a fund paid to dealerships which can then offer up to $6000 to buyers who trade in their older car with low gas mileage in order to purchase a new car.

//edit: Damn. Firsted. That's what I get for browsing while posting.

[Grimnoc]

Yep, Snark and Thrax gave the gist of the idea, as far as I understand it. I think it's already active in a handful of states as a "test program," but it have yet to pass nationally. Hopefully it doesn't. :)

[Thrax]

It has passed nationally, and the first $1 billion has already been exhausted. The House of Representatives passed a resolution to add another $2 billion on Friday; the Senate is expected to address it this upcoming week.

[Thrax]

As an side, many economists are in agreement that a final tab of $3 billion should boost the GDP by 4% or more. That is a massive return on taxpayer investment. The recent car sales are higher than they have been in about 2 years.

[Grimnoc]

Oh, crap. Well thanks for the update Thrax. :)

Just to have the other sides argument out there for people (don't worry it's non-political as far as pointing at any parties goes).

http://mises.org/story/3568

*Make sure you also click on the link for the "broken window fallacy."

[Winfrey]

4% boost to GDP? Holy crap!

[GnomeWizardd]

You dont need to be connected to a .gov site for them to do a search of your PC! Remember this one truth

http://www.7gen.com/files/130-126~Big-Brother-is-Watching-You-Posters.jpg

[Grimnoc]

As far as I know it's true.

I first heard of it on Mises.org

Ha! Sorry I totally just realized the above made me sound like I was talking about the government searching your computer thing. I was meaning to address the veracity of the Cash for Clunkers program...that I just realized was a moot issue (as far as whether or not it's real). Stupid me! :)

[MAGIC]

When i saw the title to this thread i thought we were referring to obama's presidency thus far.

[pigflipper]

teh interwebs nevar lie!

[Koreish]

If one internets only tells the truth and the other internets only tells lies, how do you find out which is telling the truth?

[Annes]

Oh hi (http://trueslant.com/christopherthomas/2009/08/01/glenn-beck-and-the-governments-fictional-plot-to-hijack-your-computer/).

[Buddy J]

LOL at anyone who thinks Glenn Beck is a news source. He's an entertainer alcoholic former-DJ. I used to enjoy his radio show, back when it wasn't all doom and gloom.

I'm not a fan of Cash for Clunkers. The stipulation that the engine must be rendered useless is wasteful. I'd much rather see the mechanical bits salvaged. And the less than 25 year old date is lame. There are tons of low income people around here driving early 1980s land yachts that would benefit greatly from the program but their cars are ineligible. They're out of luck while dual-income yuppies in their Lexus LS 400 (who can afford to buy a car without the additional funding) get a sweet little boost when they buy a Prius.

And how many good collectible cars will go to the crusher? Every time a M3 dies, BuddyJ kills a kitten.

[MAGIC]

Glenn Beck is a complete fool who gives true conservatives a bad name along with a slew of other "republican voices" that are blown up in the media. Michael Savage is the only respectable voice out there now IMO.

They're out of luck while dual-income yuppies in their Lexus LS 400 (who can afford to buy a car without the additional funding) get a sweet little boost when they buy a Prius.
Further evidence of the fobama's clever marketing scheme to make it seem as though his policies will help "the people who built this country" when in all reality, they don't.

And, if any douche bag dumps an M3 for a prius they deserve to be shot.

[ardichoke]

I'm pretty sure the point of the "less than 25 year old" rule is so people aren't turning in classic cars. As for the whole scrapping them thing... like I've said elsewhere... part of this program is supposed to be getting more environmentally friendly cars out there. What's the point of doing that if the dealers just turn around and sell the gas guzzlers that get turned in back out? At least this way there will be more work for the people that scrap the cars then melt down the metal and recycle it into new parts. I thought more work was a good thing, means more jobs right?

[ardichoke]

Also, Re: Michael Savage (http://mediamatters.org/search/tag/michael_savage), that guy is just as nuts as the rest of them.

[Grimnoc]

At least this way there will be more work for the people that scrap the cars then melt down the metal and recycle it into new parts. I thought more work was a good thing, means more jobs right?

Ardichoke, read section one, titled the "Broken Window." It's a fundamental economic axiom usually referred to as the broken window fallacy.

http://mises.org/resources/2735

(Don't worry, it's not long at all.) :)

[Snarkasm]

Doesn't that assume that somebody would have "spent" their cars in some other fashion? There's an inertia of cars: those driving old clunkers tend to continue driving old clunkers unless acted upon by an outside force.

If they would have given or sold their clunker to somebody else and bought a new car, maybe there's a point, but if it would have done nothing but haul them back and forth only to get scrapped at the end of its life, isn't that making the broken window fallacy no longer applicable?

In fact, isn't that what cripples the Japanese economy so much? People save, save, save, never spend - if somebody broke their windows, it would be a good thing, since they would likely not have spent that money otherwise.

(Legit wondering, not flaming or getting otherwise rawr-like.)

[Radio91P]

Apparently the head of the Department of Transportation said that the top ten cars sold from the Cash for Clunkers were made by Honda, Toyota, and Honda. Sorry, GM and Chrylser. He also said that Ford Focus was number one. Hmm

[Koreish]

Wasn't this thread about government conspiracy?

[SweetDragon]

In my opinion. Isn't it kind of ridicules for the our government to be pushing the Cash for Clunkers? It is just adding to our national debt and for what so that we can drive pretty cars that we can't afford anyway. It makes want to scream from the mountain tops "wake up America" (I mean the USA not the other America's) Whatever happend to the people runing the government? Why are we letting our government run the people?

I am also annoyed because I worked in dealers for years and the sad part is that this deal was just waiting for the right puppet (Obama) to come along and make it law. It makes me so sad that we as a whole are letting this happen. The government should not be involved with the sale of cars.

Please keep in mind that this is only my opinion based on my feelings. And not meant to offend. I would hate to not be politically correct.<iframe style="border: 2px inset ; width: 100%; height: 100px;" tabindex="1" id="vB_Editor_QR_iframe"></iframe>

[tmh88]

I still don't understand why people buy cars, clothes, houses, etc... that they can't afford and think nothing will happen. Sure there are emergencies that arise, but spending $15k more on a car than you can afford, or buying $200 jeans when you can only afford a pair that is $20 is just pure stupidity. There are plenty of things that the government does that we have no say in, but habits like these need to end. When millions of people are doing this it screws everyone else over.

Cash for clunkers is a terrible idea in my opinion. Sure you may get $5k back, but that doesn't mean you should go out and buy a new Lexus IS-F when you can only afford a Kia. The people who need the new cars really aren't getting much out of it other than an incentive to spend more money that they don't have.

[Thrax]

Do you have any evidence to support your implication that the majority of the people buying into the CARS program are purchasing cars above their pay grade?

[tmh88]

I'm trying to find an article or video, but I was watching CNN yesterday and they mentioned the average price of vehicles being purchased from the program was around $35,000. Considering the average American makes about $45,000 that's the majority of the buyers income. Obviously not everyone participating in the program makes the average income, with many being well above it, but it's called average for a reason.

Chances are if you own a car and are willing to trade it in for a max voucher of $4500, it's not the greatest ride since that's more than you would get anywhere else. That being said, most "rich" people wouldn't bother trading in their BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, (fill in expensive car) for only $4500 off of a new car when they could sell it for $10-15k more, or trade for something else. Also, the voucher is only good for vehciles up to $49,500 I believe.

Sure the bill is for reducing gas guzzlers on the road, but it's also causing people to spend more money than they have. No, not everyone is like this, there are plenty of people who just so happen to own a car that they want to get rid of for a new one and also have a high income, but there are plenty that don't have an extra $15k to spend on a car. We all saw what happened with mortgages being blown up because banks and people were both stupid, hopefully this will go better.

[Koreish]

I still don't understand why people buy cars, clothes, houses, etc... that they can't afford and think nothing will happen. Sure there are emergencies that arise, but spending $15k more on a car than you can afford, or buying $200 jeans when you can only afford a pair that is $20 is just pure stupidity.

Why do you think we're in this mess? "Oh, the economies good so what if I'm in debt a little?" And then the economy turns a little and all the sudden we've been steam rolled into recession.

And then there's that whole greed thing from the CEOs. You know where the majority of the bail out money for GM and Chrysler went? Right towards the CEO's bonuses. Ford gets mad kudos for not only for not taking the bailout money but also for cutting the CEO's salaries along with the labor's. Of course this is just an example from the auto-industry.

I am also annoyed because I worked in dealers for years and the sad part is that this deal was just waiting for the right puppet (Obama) to come along and make it law. It makes me so sad that we as a whole are letting this happen. The government should not be involved with the sale of cars.

I thought, and I could be wrong here, that it wasn't a law to go buy cars. I was entirely under the impression that this was part of the stimulus plan, designed as a way to get us to not only go spend some money but go green as well. And as far as I can tell it's working. Now if down the road this turns out to be a bad thing because people are buying 35K cars instead of more practical 20-25K cars then we can't really blame the government can we?

I've heard stories that if you go onto the government's Cash for Clunkers website ( or any .gov website as a matter of fact) that it states in the Privacy statement that while you're connected to any .gov site your PERSONAL COMPUTER is now considered a goverment asset. Meaning they can search your PC for anything they want.


Proof that I'm not insane and this was originally a conspiracy thread. Sheesh we're off topic.

[Snarkasm]

I'm far happier with the OT conversation than I ever was with the original topic.

[MAGIC]

but I was watching CNN yesterday

Well, theres your problem right there.

[NiGHTS]

FWIW speculation exists over whether or not this deal actually helped Ford (see Focus comment above) at all. They started the previous month well, apparently. I honestly haven't looked into how well or comparable numbers, but I figured it was a tidbit worth saying.

[tmh88]

Well, theres your problem right there.

Coming from the person who was bashing a Fox News "reporter."

[Thrax]

Game over.