Apple BAAAAAAD!

[TheSmJ]

IDunno if this is old or not, but I just saw it tonight and think it's great!

http://members.cox.net/clyqz/macs.html

I ought to get it playing on all the Macs at work (assuming I could figure out HOW to load a page), just so I could watch the Apple salesperson squirm (don't worry, he's a total jerk anyways).

[Templar]

Saw that a couple of days ago.. I laughed my ass off :D :respect:

[keto]

Hahaha great parody :D

[Geeky1]

And it's worse because it's ALL TRUE.

[a2jfreak]

Thank you thank you thank you!
This is one of the anti-mac videos I was asking for earlier this week.

I actually like the drunkengamers.com or drunkgamers.com (whichever) switch parody best, but this Hunter Krusell guy is hilarious too.

Now to show this to my cousin--he loves Macs.

[Thrax]

Wouldn't that be "iDunno if this is old.."

[TheSmJ]

Wouldn't that be "iDunno if this is old.."


:p

["(°_°)"]

ahm...

well, i think its a personal philosophy to use a mac or a pc , in fact there are peoples who use macs and the dont like pcs and there are some guys who use a pc and they dont like macs .. better or not better the result of the work counts and not the question "with which tool(computer)"... i remember the atari vs. amiga discussions jears ago ... thats playchild diskussions,

best regards

fery

[Thrax]

Why use a hammer on a roof when you can use a nailgun?

[Enverex]

ahm...

well, i think its a personal philosophy to use a mac or a pc , in fact there are peoples who use macs and the dont like pcs and there are some guys who use a pc and they dont like macs .. better or not better the result of the work counts and not the question "with which tool(computer)"... i remember the atari vs. amiga discussions jears ago ... thats playchild diskussions,

best regards

fery

Which everyone knew was Amiga due to greater expandability and generally faster performance. :)

[Enverex]

You may want to watch this (http://atomnet.co.uk/?p=comedystore&search=mac) version, as it is about ten times bigger.

[RWB]

hehe, I used to like the MAC, but that was short lived..... you may even remember the thread.

After using them, they are the most annoying thing on this god forsaken planet. Even moreso than a feminine queer who won't stop talking to you!!!

Yeah, so, the guys in class that are MAC fanyboys are all like...
"hey, I have a 1GHz bus, let's see your PC do that... not even Intel's 800MHz bus can catch me!"
So I say...
"No, I don't have a 1GHz bus... I'll admit it.... no shame... but I do have a 1600MHz Hypertransport bus. You can go find your cookie now... I think I saw it fall in the trash with your ****ing MAC!"

:P

[Clutch]

That video is soo funny. I used to have it saved, but lost it. Always good for a laugh though.

["(°_°)"]

i mean look , if its a performance combined with stability diskussion show me just one pc who have this attributes .. no, i say no pc on this planet has this attribute actually.. thats the reason why all the big design houses use macs "time is money"... with a pc (no commercial use) you have this funny bluescreens- driver-problems and and and .. i mean this is realy a playchild discussion , ask yourselv ... i think the whole problem is that macs are to expensive for the most of you and u didnt grow up with a mac because mac didnt start with this gamefront like the pcs are did jears ago... if you grow up with moms food all your life you will say jears after "yeah moms food is the best ..yours is crap" ..same situation with with this mac and pc discussion... show me one reason why the pc is the better choice than a mac and i give you 10 reasons back why a mac is better than a pc... the main problem is, mac have less games, less cracks , less shareware, less lo-cost-hardware-accessories, thats the only point i can accept , if I regard with your system compilations of your PCS then look.. you are very far under the level of a g5 with 1,6 ghz single processor..that means to me you drive a golf class car but you r discussting about ferraris an porsche`s , its not only the processor is the whole combination of the hardware parts a AMD 3200+64 processor is useless with a underclocked motherboard or a low-performance systembus or ram... bla bla bla next thread plz :-p
----

and i agree ...a pc is much better than a imac with a g4 processor! :-D

----

best regards

fery

[Thrax]

I grew up with a Mac at school.. I used it from 5-9 years old, one or two hours a day.

It was **** compared to the PC I later got when I was 7. The difference in the PC's favour was just ridiculous.

The Mac has a foothold because it once earned it.

I hope you know everything you just said in your post is absurd conjecture, that can be refuted 12 ways from sunday with tested, true, and quantitative data.. Which cannot be argued against.

[Enverex]

i mean look , if its a performance combined with stability diskussion show me just one pc who have this attributes .. no, i say no pc on this planet has this attribute actually

Have you even heard the word "Opteron" before? I dual Opteron system really wouldn't have any problem walking over a same priced G5. Not to mention you could put all the parts that YOU want in it, rather than being force fed them by Apple.

i think the whole problem is that macs are to expensive for the most of you

No, I think the problem is that Apple products are insanely overpriced with no justification.

if you grow up with moms food all your life you will say jears after "yeah moms food is the best ..yours is crap"

Only if you can't see past your own nose. For everyone else there is something called reasoning and reality.

you are very far under the level of a g5 with 1,6 ghz single processor..that means to me you drive a golf class car but you r discussting about ferraris an porsche`s

Build a PC for the same price it would cost for that Single Processor and then lets have a look at the results, shall we?

with a pc (no commercial use) you have this funny bluescreens- driver-problems and and and .. i mean this is realy a playchild discussion

You're the one saying that PC's have blue screens constantly and constant driver issues. Take things in ratio. You are seeing lots of issues because there are hell of a lot more people. Blue screens also assume that the person is running Windows. Remember, people running PCs don't have to be force fed from the supplier.

its not only the processor is the whole combination of the hardware parts a AMD 3200+64 processor is useless with a underclocked motherboard or a low-performance systembus or ram

So PC3200 and above is underclocked and low performance? Riiiight, and where exactly in your ass are you pulling this information out of?

Unless you have something serious to say in comparison, and not rash and plain stupid comments, I recommend that you don't say anything at all.

[Geeky1]

Our first 2 computers were Macs, and I used them in school through 8th grade.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying, though. All the benchmarks I've seen, outside of apple's own (which are just as invalid as intel's and amd's own benchmarks) have the G5 getting KILLED by even the P4, let alone the Athlon XP. I suppose it's not really a big deal, though. My 1.3GHz Celeron is fast enough for everything, including (very) light gaming. Hell, anything over 1GHz is "fast enough" for most people, but that's not really the point.

The G5 is advertised as "the first 64-bit desktop computer", which it's not; the Opteron is, and it's advertised as the "world's fastest, most powerful personal computer", which it's not. 2 of my 4 systems, possibly 3, would have no trouble beating a dual 2GHz G5 in any benchmark around, as well as in real-world use, assuming the systems all had the same graphics card, RAM size, etc.

The Mac has one major advantage- the OS is dumbed-down enough for computer illiterate idiots to use it without any real risk of screwing anything up. That's not to say it doesn't have advanced "power user" capabilities, because as I understand it, OSX does, but it's also simple enough that anyone can use it WITHOUT RUNNING THE RISK OF SCREWING ANYTHING UP (it's that last part that can't be said of windows/linux, unless you use the restricted accounts on Windows).

However, most people here don't care about that, because we know our way around Windows/Linux (or we like to think we do, anyhow... :D). So, it comes down to performance, and the G5 can't keep up with the latest PCs.

Macs are fine for some things, but if you want a high-performance machine, you'll have to get a PC, and most likely, you'll have to build your own.

<ul>Basically, I don't like Macs for a number of reasons:
<li>Lack of software support
<li>Not as common as PCs, so I can't count on friends having one
<li>Way too expensive for what you get
<li>Semi-proprietary (They still use their own AGP connector, don't they?)
<li>Lack of expandability (Even the G5 has a whopping 3 PCI slots...)
<li>Nowhere near as fast as a similarly-priced PC
<li>That whole "no eject button" on optical drives thing
<li>3 words: One. Button. Mouse. (although admittedly OSX supports 2-button mice)
<li>They've got it bass-ackwards: it's function/form, not form/function.
<li>Widescreen displays suck
<li>"Taskbar" at the top of the screen
<li>Minimized windows stay smack in the middle of the stupid screen! (fixed in OSX)
<li>Stupid bouncing icons in OSX launcher use system resources, look gay
<li>LITTLE-NO TWEAKING/OVERCLOCKING
</ul>

["(°_°)"]

Basically, I don't like Macs for a number of reasons:

Lack of software support

(lol.. sorry but thats not right so far you have to pay surely for a mac-support-plan, but you have to pay to for the dell service 4 example.. the service is good, i see no reason to accept this)

Not as common as PCs, so I can't count on friends having one

(my friends didnt have a mac 2 so thats not the point most of them using pcs but they are not so blocked like u guys to see that the "work" runs faster on a mac.)

Way too expensive for what you get

(thats not right.. the same quality for less?..show me a comercial offer my friend.. and we do not talk about "taiwan quality" )

Semi-proprietary (They still use their own AGP connector, don't they?)
Lack of expandability (Even the G5 has a whopping 3 PCI slots...)

4 what do you need more than 3 ? give me a senseful answer 4 that *g*

Nowhere near as fast as a similarly-priced PC

ther is no similliarity, understand that.. you can use nearly the same software that u use on a pc but thats all .. a pc is a pc and a mac is a mac there is no point to see a similliarity, or did u see a similliarity between a organizer and a calculator ?

That whole "no eject button" on optical drives thing

its not on the drive its on the keyboard the preffered button you talking about.

3 words: One. Button. Mouse. (although admittedly OSX supports 2-button mice)

this is a pure lie! you can use microsoft intellimices or logitech mices or other keyboards with a mac , i use 4 exmpl the logitech 500mx mice and the logitech navigator keyboard!

They've got it bass-ackwards: it's function/form, not form/function.

???

Widescreen displays suck

u can use other monitors to ... other peoples love the size of HDTV(16:9) it make sense if u work with cubase (musicproduktion) or photoshop (design)


"Taskbar" at the top of the screen

Minimized windows stay smack in the middle of the stupid screen! (fixed in OSX)

Stupid bouncing icons in OSX launcher use system resources, look gay
...

before i go any further read this http://www.apple.com/powermac/ ,

your arguments are not arguments , dont take it personal, but you are not up to date.

and 4 the opertron guy one post upper: comeon .. ey you cant pay a oppertron .. and witch f*** software or game support oppertron? lol and just for info the opertron is the pendant to the intel itanium processor and the whole world knows that the architecture is made 4 servers and not for home computing like 4 what you guys using your modded pcs *g*

best regards

fery

[TheBaron]

seriously fery you dont want to start this. what you seem to be neglecting to realize is that many, most even of the people on this board have used macs in the past and will use macs in the future, but quite frankly your arguments are unresearched and blatantly incorrect. first, Geeky was not arguing against you in the bullets that you chose to argue about, those were his PERSONAL OPINIONS.

did you even READ the top half of his post? thats where all of the relevant information was anyway. it seems to me that you are arguing based on opinion rather than fact.

lets start off by addressing one of the primary arguments that stubborn mac users ALWAYS employ. that the mac is better at digital picture/video editing. in that aspect i direct you here:
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-6451-6423
do yourself a favor and take the time to read it

thats enough for now (this thread is so gonna get closed :shakehead )

[Enverex]

(lol.. sorry but thats not right so far you have to pay surely for a mac-support-plan, but you have to pay to for the dell service 4 example.. the service is good, i see no reason to accept this)

Er, no, I think you will find, anyone who wants a performance machine will just build their own, and will have warrenties on each part, free of charge, and not fork out for crap like that.

(my friends didnt have a mac 2 so thats not the point most of them using pcs but they are not so blocked like u guys to see that the "work" runs faster on a mac.)

"the "works" run faster"? What the hell does that mean?

(thats not right.. the same quality for less?..show me a comercial offer my friend.. and we do not talk about "taiwan quality" )

I think you will find PCs are normally made of quality parts, no recycled lego. Compared to the what looks like the case of an old industrial hoover that is used for the G5's cases. Sorry, but you are making this crap up again, if you don't act serious, then I won't.

4 what do you need more than 3 ? give me a senseful answer 4 that *g*

Yes actually, I managed to fill up all 5 of the PCI slots in my Old PC through certain Video editing and capture cards and misc periferals (sp).

ther is no similliarity, understand that.. you can use nearly the same software that u use on a pc but thats all .. a pc is a pc and a mac is a mac there is no point to see a similliarity, or did u see a similliarity between a organizer and a calculator ?

Actually they are both aimed at the same people, well, at least Apple are trying to do that after they gain back more ground. You are comparing a calculator to a calculator, just one you can do what you want with, the other costs 5 x the amount, has false claims that it is "cool" and is faster, and uses mostly proprietory equiptment.

its not on the drive its on the keyboard the preffered button you talking about.

Or you could just give the users the option, rather than forcing them

and 4 the opertron guy one post upper: comeon .. ey you cant pay a oppertron .. and witch f*** software or game support oppertron? lol and just for info the opertron is the pendant to the intel itanium processor and the whole world knows that the architecture is made 4 servers and not for home computing like 4 what you guys using your modded pcs *g*

Strange, Opterons can be used for the desktop, and so can a Multiple Athlon 6x-FX system, and you could easily build one for the same or less than a G5 and it would wipe the floor with it, but wait, you "shoudln't use them for that" because then Apple couldn't brainwash people into thinking there is anything than the mighty G5.

Just leave and don't look back.

["(°_°)"]

well, i have to say that i just see this stupid anti mac film (*gg* in quicktime format .. i think that was also apple who invented this format :-p)in the first post , so you are right, i dont read all the posts, just things like .. hihi thats realy cool and the topic ... that says enough ..what should i read more?

and i am just talking , this is not a personal thing or i am not angry *g* its just that , that i dont understand why some peoples think about the apples so faulty! if you read the performance specs and all the infos about the apple g5 you will see i was righter than right! i just try to keep peoples informed about the reallity! .. i had a simmiliar discussion in a german forum .. the funny is after i showed them the hardfacts about performance the last comment of them was something like that " i dont care .. mac is crap ****" *gg* .. i never see so much aggresivity and emotionality against a product like pc users vs. macs *g* ... i think i never understand that!..

and at the end of the day no one of them can supply hardfacted arguments!

... but anyway i just disscuss .. hey its a bulletin board :-)

[Enverex]

that i dont understand why some peoples think about the apples so faulty! if you read the performance specs and all the infos about the apple g5 you will see i was righter than right

Jesus Christ. This is exactly why you are wrong. Apple are talking bull**** to make people buy things, and you are doing exactly that.
"Buy our product because it is great"
"Sure"
I mean, use your head, look at comparisons, LOOK AT TESTS CONDUCTED BY THIRD PARTIES.

and at the end of the day no one of them can supply hardfacted arguments!

We already have if you would care to look at the sites, but you won't will you, as you are quite content to just sit there and wallow in your own little world where Macs are actually worth buying.

If you aren't even going to make any attempt to see the truth, rationality and reasoning, then I don't see why we should either.

["(°_°)"]

"work" runs faster = the job 4 exmpl. (graphik design/ arranging tracks/ edit videos/ cut movies ) .. goes faster.. i mean the workflow!

do me a favor and go to http://www.apple.com/powermac/ read and.. understand that you are not right in that what you talking about .. you talk about "displaced drop out buttons of a cd-rom drive" or about (5 pci slots) .. thats maybe reasons for a pc users .. if u use avid or other professional hardware on your computer u use normaly a pci farm with 5 or 20 slots .... apple uses the 800-firewire connection 4 that (the newer hardware applications)

you talk about really two worlds!

[Geeky1]

First, you misunderstood what I meant by "software support". No one uses tech support. I'm talking about the number of applications that support MacOS, of which there are significantly fewer than the number that support Windows.

Second, I need my computer to be compatible as far as hardware, software, file types, etc. go, with my friends' systems, with the systems at school, at work, my parent's systems, etc.

Third, I don't understand what you're saying with regards to quality. Apple uses the same suppliers for their stuff that Dell and the like do. Open up a G3 tower... they use Foxconn cables. So does Dell, Compaq, HP, and IBM, at least.

The Apple "super drive" is a Pioneer DVR. It's the same thing you can go to BestBuy, Fry's, or wherever and buy, and the same thing you can get in a number of OEM PCs.

The power supply in the G3 is a Delta unit. Delta OEM's some of HP's power supplies.

The bottom line is that the CPU and various interfaces may be different, but the basic components are the same. It's not like Apple uses special custom capacitors and resistors on their motherboards you know.

Also, on the subject of quality, I've seen both Apple and Dell make the same dumbass mistake: Using thermally controlled fans with thermistors built into the fan frame as CPU/Case fans, where the fans are pulling cool air in from outside the case.

What do I need 4 PCI slots for? Oh, lessee...
1-2 open under video card, SCSI/IDE RAID, Decent sound card, Modem (if necessary), Additional USB, Firewire, NIC ports, Non-RAID SCSI... there are all sorts of things that could occupy 4 PCI slots. Besides, the Apple has (realistically speaking) 1-2. No one in their right mind puts a PCI card directly under any video card that runs hot enough to require even a passive heatsink.

What do you mean there is no similarity? They do the same job. Apple's approach to accomplishing a task is different from Intel's/AMD's, but the net effect is still the same. Therefore, they are comparable.

Having an eject button on the keyboard is just as stupid as not having any at all. Do you understand the concept of a hardware-based eject function? You know, something that DOESN'T REQUIRE OS INTERVENTION TO EJECT A STUPID CD?

How is my statement about mice a "pure lie"? Read the contents of the parenthesis. What did I say? I said that OSX supports normal mice, did I not? Yes, I did. Read what I say before responding to it, please.

As for form/function vs. function/form: Apple's primary design goal seems to be to make the machine look good, whatever the cost of that may be. For example, the round mice the original iMacs had. That's an excellent example of form taking precedence over function. Another good example is the layout of the CRT-equipped iMacs. They have a nasty tendency to overheat in certain conditions, because Apple couldn't design a halfway decent cooling system that would fit in the iMac chassis. Furthermore, take the iPod's Lithium Polymer battery that has a remarkable tendency to stop working at ~18 months old, regardless of how much it's been used. Hell, look at the G4. You rememeber people complaining about them being too loud? You have any idea why that was? It was because Apple's chassis couldn't handle the heat generated by the dual G4s without using high-speed cooling fans. High-speed fans are noisy. If the case had been designed intelligently, it wouldn't have had a problem with keeping the CPUs cool.

I realize you can use other monitors, but which ones does apple offer on their site?

What about the link? It has no relevance to anything. And I maintain that MacOS's layout is moronic. OSX's is less so than previous versions, but it still sucks. Yes, it's a matter of personal preference. And I prefer the Windows GUI.

And as for the Opteron... the Opteron supports everything from Win98 to .net Advanced Server. Hell, it'll probably run on '95 with the patch for the K6 that Microsoft released a few years back, and I wouldn't be surprised if it ran on 3.1, either. And of course, like any other x86 machine, it'll run DOS, Linux, Unix, and OS/2. Surely you aren't going to try to tell me that Win95, 98, ME, and XP (Home Edition at the very least) aren't consumer OSes, are you?

If it runs consumer OSes, which it does, it's a valid consumer-level CPU. It also happens to be faster in those OSes than the G5/OSX combination is, and it came out earlier to boot.

[Enverex]

do me a favor and go to http://www.apple.com/powermac/ read and.. understand that you are not right in that what you talking about ..

Geeky1: There is no point arguing as "The G5 is the best PC in the world because the Apple site says so".

This isn't going anywhere.

[Geeky1]

Enervex, yeah, I know... but I have too much free time and nothing better to do with it... :D

[madmat]

Dude, where are you?
If you can get your hands on the December issue of Maximum PC then you should take a look at the article that they have which pits the top of the line G5 against a PC outfitted with a P4 3.2EE and a PC with a FX-51.
They ran 12 tests that were co-authored by the editors of Max PC and Mac Addict which is a magazine for Mac enthusiasts published by the same company.
Out of 12 benchmarks the G5 took 4, the P4EE took 6 and the FX-51 took 2 but in those 8 that the G5 lost out in, both the AMD and Intel PC's lead the G5 by at least 10% up to a mind boggling 317%!!!
These were tests that were agreed upon by both sets of editors, not tests cooked up by PC editors to make the G5 look bad.

["(°_°)"]

hm.. answer me one question , why is my workflow much faster on a g5 as on a dual xeon2 system? i tried same operations on both to see whats going on (that was before i buyed the g5`s)... so what should i say? the point is noone of u have a dual opertron with twinmos or dual ecc`ed ram ... or if yes than respect! but i can talk about what i see and what i had in my hands before thats what i try to explain ... in audio/graphics/film .. is mac the leading system for me .. you can see it on official benchmark tests if you want, infact thats whats interessting 4 the end user and not how fast some high end pc systems calculate for me a scientific math-formula in 20 seconds ..

but i expirienced "live and in action" that the dell precision650 with dual xeon2 was slower than the g5... im a motion designer.. the only result that counts 4 me is work fast and uncomplicated , and i dont wanna waste time to search all the time drivers or fix my bluescreens..

also a fact is that , and...you can say what ever u want , that the mac os is faster than linux or windows .. test it for ur self u will be astonished.

but i also agree in that , that apple are realy not cheap, i never disagree that.

but my main point was that, that i duno understand the holy discussion "mac vs pc" are u the better music producer or a better web designer than mac users? lot of designhouses or studios swears up on apple computers... im sure they are not idiots at all they have good reasons why they are using not a pc, kids , gamers and freetime webdesigner , producer who using cubase cracks ... they dont buy macs , thats 4 sure.

worms, viruses etc. i dont know that on a mac, it would cost me lot of money when my computer get a virus or a worm, that was also a reason to buy a mac.. time is money and configurating-reinstalling the os hundred times or update norton every week 8 times is not the world of an apple!

pc and mac are to different from the phillosophy to do this "mac vs pc-discussion" all the time.

for exmpl., if i have a job and i have to finish my work in one week and they pay me for.exmpl. 1000$ 4 that ,i need a computer that works nonstop like a horse with no crashs or system crashs... i dont have this with a mac ... i think reliability is a good word to describe a computer like a mac!


and here a opteron exmpl i have this source from http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?

i just give a dual 2,2 ghz opertron system to cart, with no extrasno floppy nothing.. look at the price

Monarch Enterprise G64 Custom Opteron Workstation

Case: 100937 - No PS - Enermax CS-10182-BA Tower (Black)

Motherboard: 110754 - ARIMA HDAMB Opteron WS Board AGP Pro 4X 8

*Processor: 120748 - AMD Opteron 248 2.2GHz 1MB 64/32 Bit (Ret

Memory: 140927-2 DDR (266) 2100 REG ECC - 4 GB (2 pcs 2GB)

*2nd Memory: 142927-2 DDR (266) 2100 REG ECC - 4 GB (2 pcs 2GB)
*
Hard Drive: 150239 - SATA - Western Digital 74 GB SATA 10K Rap

2nd Hard Drive: 152938 - SATA - Western Digital 250GB SATA 8 MB Ca
*
3rd Hard Drive: None

4th Hard Drive: None

RAID Controller: 600227 - 3Ware 7506-8 8 Port ATA Raid Controller
*
RAID Setup: None
*
CD-ROM: 160808 - Lite-On 16x DVD 40x CD-ROM - Black
*
CD-RW/DVD-RW Drive: None
**
Floppy Drive: None

Sound Card: None

*Video Card: 190018 - 3D Labs Wildcat VP560 64MB AGP
*
Video Capture/Editong Software: None
*
Modem: None
*
Networking: None

Extra I/O: None
*
Operating System: 210211 - Linux Mandrake 9.0 (Install Only)

Hot Rush: None - Standard Order ( ships within 8-13 business

2nd Processor: 122748 - AMD Opteron 248 2.2GHz 1MB 64/32 Bit (Ret
*
Power Supply: 100829 - Enermax EG851AX-VH(W)FM 660Watt Dual Fan,
*
Warranty: 800007 - 1 Year - Parts & Labor - Barebone (No Sof

Heat-sink/Fan: 130240 - AMD CERT.Opteron Fan & Heat sink *

2nd Heat-sink/Fan: 132240 - AMD CERT.Opteron Fan & Heat sink

Subtotal for 80140 with your selected options: $9,482.00*********

thats discount price!
_______
"VS"
_______

dual g5 complete system incl. ati radeon 9800 pro

Dual 2GHz PowerPC G5
8GB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200) - 8x1GB
2x250GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro
SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
Apple Keyboard & Apple Mouse - U.S. English
Mac OS X - U.S. English


Subtotal $8,745.00 (source apple.com)
discount price 4exmpl. cancom.de 7,900.00$
or with 2x147gb sata 10000 rpm the same price



thats a difference for me allround 3000$ us bucks! and im not sure that the opteron system is reliably like the apple system!

*** here are tests g5 vs opteron*** .. http://www.barefeats.com/g5op.html


other question ,what is then the next point when apple relase the new dual g5 with 4 ghz? how high goes the disussion than? mac vs silicon graphics computer? mac vs. opteron5 cluster nods ?
:p

... but i agree really in one point, if i need to do just web-surfing or gaming or editing some home videos i`m shure a pc for 600$ would be enough 4 me and im sure in this case i find also reasons why a mac is so "BAAAAAAD!" :p


best regards

fery


here is a also interessting discussion about our toppic : http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=7707

[madmat]

Yeah, pretty expensive configuration there, but, there are places that you can buy those same parts for a lot less than Monarch and by assembling it yourself save a goodly sum of money.
I've been on Monarch's site and I'd never buy something there as they are some expensive s.o.b.'s.
One question, why are you buying a raid controler when you're not running raid? That's just a waste of money.
Also, I think that 8gigs of ram is just overkill and another added expense considering that 1Gb sticks of ECC ram are insanely expensive, 4 gigs of 512Mb sticks of performance pc3200 (8X512) would be about 1/3 the price of that 8Gigs of ram.
I've seen mini-frame servers running to 50-60 workstations that only use 4gigs of ram.
That said I'm sure that if I was to take my time and shop around I could build the same system with a more realistic ram config for less than half what you quoted.

[Park_7677]

Sense when are PCs so damn unstable :eek3: And when have drivers been trouble to install?

MOST servers in the world are PC.. up 24/7 (there are exceptions). Yes, no one is sitting in front of it but they may very well have 50 open connections serving 100s of MBs in data, and 100s MB of MySQL data in RAM, compressing files for download, FTP connections, remote admin services, etc. That's enough to trip up a system given time--but they're up for not just days, not months, but years (given it isn't under a year old :tongue: )

That was just my point that PCs aren't BSODs and reboots. Anyone who knows what they're doing and doesn't download viruses, spyware, adware, and stupid $hit.. don't have problems. I'm up for almost 3 days.. That's because of a water pipe busted 3 days ago and we shut off the power to the house. (an outlet was very near water)


I read that link you posted, "(°_°)". Now I'm taking a look at all the PDFs there to see if I can find anything there.

My opinion about the page is that it's just an AD. It's done by Apple and doesn't really give any good information.

In the small print on one of the pages, it states the benchmark used an insane 14 HDD RAID 50. Your G5 didn't come with one, did it? I didn't think so. Why should it be used in a benchmark they use to sell the things?! :range:

Anyone else notice the very rare comparisons to AMD? Plus, they push in your face the 64-bit CPUs and use "applications optimized for the G5 processor" but 90% of the time compare them to Intel CPUs (which are all 32-bit, and frankly aren't the "baddest boys on the block" in PC world)

It's been said.. Apple has its place in professional media editing. That's it.

but i expirienced "live and in action" that the dell precision650 with dual xeon2 was slower than the g5
Can you elaborate on this? Did you buy each and have 30 days to play with them and return them? Personally, I don't think using them in the store is "experiencing" anything. Plus, everyone knows an OEM PC isn't nearly as good as custom built (talking about the Dell). Also, what did you do to conclude which was faster? Did actually work with them day in and day out or just for an hour in the store? You kind of left my hanging on that statement.... :-/


.......Sorry for contributing to this hugely off-topic debate.. :crazy: .....

[keto]

Plus, the benchies where the Mac wins (@barefeats) are programs that 99.999% of computer users will never have a use for. Nobody denies that a Mac can win some benchmarks and it's widely known that they are favoured (tho less than they used to be) by graphic/CAD artists - as you seem to be if I understand correctly. I doubt there's 2 other members of these forums who own 8GB of current RAM, let alone in one system.

So, by and large, you're preaching to the wrong audience and very unlikely to 'score' with the points you are making. I'll chime in with my opinion that for an everyday computer user, Mac is very overpriced and undersupported. For a specialist, I'm sure Mac has its place.

This thread was posted to point out a piece of parody. Very good parody, funny and entertaining. I don't believe it was posted to REALLY say that Apple's "BAAAAAAD!"

[Geeky1]

The Xeon has the same problem the P4 does; both are inherently flawed CPUs. The pipeline length verges on absurd, hence the performance difference you saw. Put a dual 2GHz G5 up against my dual athlon system though, and you will find that the results are quite different.

Here are the specs on that particular system:
<li>MSI K7D Master-L motherboard
<li>AMD 760MPX chipset
<li>2 AMD Athlon XP 2500+ CPUs, modded to MPs @ 150x12.5
<li>1GB DDR333/DDR400 (512MB DDR333, 512MB DDR400)
<li>ATi Radeon 8500/64MB***
<li>HighPoint RocketRaid 1540 SATA-RAID card
<li>MSI USB2 PCI card
<li>Creative SoundBlaster Audigy2 Platinum
<li>Integrated Intel 10/100 ethernet
</ul>

The R8500 is in there because I killed the 9700 Pro that WAS in there, and my NF7-S needs a 9700 Pro more than the dually does, so it has my other one.

Anyhow, since I'm stuck with an R8500 ATM, vs your 9600/9800, a comparison of video performance wouldn't be possible. However, I am absolutely positive that my dual 1.89GHz Athlons are more than a match for a dual 2GHz G5.

[Thrax]

77 test Mac vs. PC Benchmark Test (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-6451-6410)

Ultimately, the Mac tied or led the PC in 19 of the 77 tests that comprise this report. Put another way, the PC was faster in 58 of 77 benchmarks. And this is comparing desktop machines. Though we haven't published specific performance numbers for laptops in this report, we did run a Mac Powerbook and a Dell laptop through a subset of the same tests. The 15-inch Powerbook G4, powered by a G4/1.25GHz processor, was thumped in every test by a Dell Inspiron 8500 and its P4-M processor running at 2.6GHz. And while the PC is still quicker overall, the Mac is at least back in the race.

Quantitatively stated: All your claims about operations being faster, are false. I have here presented irrefutable data contrary to your claims.

Either respond with benchmarks contrary to this from an independent source, or your statements will continue to be false.

Case in point:

-The Athlon is faster than the G5.
-The Pentium4 is faster than the G5.
-The Athlon64 3x00+ is faster than the G5.
-The Xeon is faster than the G5.
-The Opteron is faster than a G5.
-The Athlon64 FX-51 is faster than a G5

Resolved, that all chips from primary x86 CPU vendors designed for the workstation market in the last 3 years are superior to the Mac G4 and G5 architectures.

[madmat]

Ah, my bad...I got my figures wrong in favor of the Mac...oosp.

["(°_°)"]

if somebody asking u, why are u so militant pc-fanatic against mac your answer is all the time benchmarktest and i will beat u with my system and the opteron and and and ...

... whats that conversation for ?

(post in a post @ thrax)__________________________________________
Case in point:

-The Athlon is faster than the G5.
-The Pentium4 is faster than the G5.
-The Athlon64 3x00+ is faster than the G5.
-The Xeon is faster than the G5.
-The Opteron is faster than a G5.
-The Athlon64 FX-51 is faster than a G5

Resolved, that all chips from primary x86 CPU vendors designed for the workstation market in the last 3 years are superior to the Mac G4 and G5 architectures.

the benchmark test u showed with a link is done by a photographer ... the interessting thing is you see him on a pic with his pc... come on should i lough? ... and to your "chart list" ...-The Pentium4 is faster than the G5. loooool . u must be a comedian u make me realy lough .. ey plz .. overthink your post one more time .. i mean thats pure founded propaganda "


regards

fery
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i gave u also a link to a forum to show u that also pc user accept that the apple is a realy good computer .. and the question better ...haha i mean i can say "well guys .. let us do a challenge who do the best work in this time" ... what is when i win with my mac? does that mean your pc is not good enough? no ..remember my words what i posted before .. the result counts! and not if u are a mac or a pc user .. everybody choose his own tool, ...

infact nobody can show me a contra against that the mac is the best computer for graphic and audio performance ... but why is that like this.. the reason is "stability" and "processing" and the "Velocity Engine 4 the Vectoring ", not more and not less than that.

and lot of u misunderstood me completly, i never said that "you have to buy a mac" the point was the question "why are this stupid mac vs pc conversation" ?

and one more time ... you cant compare the two systems .. it beginns on the completly different OS ... the way how the CPU`s Processing .. the way of look& feel and much more aspects...

You cant be like that because thats playchild stuff .. i also can not say hey.. you stupid pc user look i am better than u because i have the best results!.

anyway... this is a interessting point .. "QUESTION":with who im talking anyway? what are u working guys? what are u doin with your pcs?


best regards

fery

[Thrax]

This is ridiculous.

Qualitative and quantitative data are entirely lost upon you, and you ignore factual information.

A benchmark is a benchmark, using the same one on two platforms shows the weaknesses and strengths of the system tested. As it's the same benchmark, the results are directly comparable. Period.

Again, I will state that unless you post numbers contrary to mine, your statements are meaningless conjecture.

<i>Repeated:</i> Provide numbers that show the mac is faster, and we will take your comments seriously. You <b>cannot</b> argue stability, whatsoever, because it has quite literally a million variables that determine its outcome. Stop mentioning it. It's worthless.

[RWB]

G3, G4, and just recently G5 are all MAC's that I have run recently...

The G5 is uber sweet, and Adobe products are built FOR MAC but of course most their moola are in the PC market, thus they build ALL needed applications for PC AND MAC, most are on PC and NOT MAC though. Look at their products, and you will see.

I'll say them filters run quicker on them G5's like a mad man! But in the end, MAC fanboys speak of productivity and all that. I cannot tell you if a Filter runs faster on a PC than a MAC, I mean... Photoshop was built on a MAC. At the same time though... I can buy 2 PC's for the price of 1 MAC.

If I amnot mistaken, someone earlier showed how a PC can cost the same as a MAC... yet they used some place that sold them for higher than usual prices. Whatever.

I do Digital Media work; I run Photoshop, Illustrator, 3Ds MAX, MAYA, Director, FLASH... you name it, I am either already working with it or I am learning it. I attend FullSail, and there are more MAC lovers there than I can throw my fist at... MAC's have a big fan base... but it is the same arguments everytime...

My Bus is bigger than yours.... can you get any dumber?
Apple is more stable and you get what you pay for.... getting what you pay for is usually getting you ripped off, it's like buying a pair of $200 PANTS! You don't and SHOULDN'T have to pay that much... even Alienware PC's are more affordable than a MAC.

Another thing on price, ever add memory from APPLE? My God in Heaven! You pay double the price! They are not for Overclocking, so there is no point in going higher than PC3200, but adding a gig of PC3200 memory will cost you $350 bucks or so... I can buy 1GB of PC3200 for 150... so I guess I get what I pay for from them looking a my memory, so I must spend more than needed? Same goes for anything else that you can configure...

All propietary too... it is horse****. When Stevie was gone, MAC started getting better, allowing others to vend their **** so it would be able to compete with a PC. No they have to charge more cuase no one wants them.

MAC's have fallen behind, even though they use more up to date stuff inside them, they have nothing on a PC. Anything I can do on a MAC I can do on a PC, and then some.

I don't even hate MAC's... that is not it. I am looking into getting one as a matter of fact, so that I can learn it's "stuff" like I do a PC. But just like Intel, they are hitting the floor...

Sorry for the long post, just needed the rant becuase at school today we had to do some work on PC's and MAC's... MAC's suck, becuase their software is horrid... PC's suck though too becuase of Microshaft.... which brings up the only valid points of a MAC user, which is always talking smack about stability or something, yet I haven't seen any MAC's that have lasted without a Crash in a good long while..

end of rant mode.

["(°_°)"]

I analyze only the available data. Youre limited to set up statements without pointing out times, how you come to it..Google?. Also interessting is that you ignored or overplayed my statement about audio performance and video performance also . The influence of these factors on the system are sufficiently well-known . during at the same time you- knowingly or unknowingly -give incorrect information about the equipment of the G5s spread.

"apple released that"..... The Photoshop test was based on following actions and/or filters: Save as to PSD, save as tiff, save as GIF, level, Curves, Color balance, Hue/Saturation, Desaturate, Replace Color, variation, Fill Selection, Stroke Selection, Transform Scale, Transform Rotate, image Size, Canvas Size, Rotate, Flip Canvas horizontal, Flip Canvas vertical, Blur More, Gaussian Blur, Motion Blur, ADD Noise uniform, Despeckle, Dust & Scratches, Sharpen, Sharpen Edges, Unsharp MASK, find Edges, High passport, normal dazzle, Multiply dazzle, screen dazzle, Darken dazzle, Lighten dazzle, saturation dazzle, Make Path, Make Selection (from Path), Fill Path, Flatten image, RGB ton of Grayscale, RGB ton of Indexed, RGB ton lab, RGB ton of CMYK with this test was the 2*2GHz G5 twice fast as like the 2*3,06 GHz Xeons Dell after Apples statement.

I can hardly imagine that Adobe would publicly support a lie of Apple here, which suggests that at the numbers are probably somewhat true . I find it also interesting, how you continue to apparently insist also on the fact that 2 Ghz of a G5 do not reach times to P4. sorry but how are u came on it? spectaculation? impressions? .did u ever check the NASA benchmarks? than go ahead, now you can use google to research ...you will be astonished ... and because the G5 is based on IBM Power4 processors, which are available already for quite some time. The processor cores are as far as possible identically than the cpu of the PC/IBM-CPU`s(Power4), the G5 had additionally evenly Altivec/Velocity engine and done for it without few IBM peculiarities and have smaller Caches. But you does not even permit obviously, because you cannot oppose otherwise anything to my statement with the stability/performance relationship. What may not be, can not be, or how?

All in all the impression remains that you leaned enormously too far out of the window. I would like to remind you to that you and some other "pc users" of this forum were it, who began this discussion with an unbelievable progressivity ("Apples marketing lies "etc..) - no Mac user was running allround and play the "we are the kings"-soap opera ..remember guys like u starts withit. Perhaps I should generally save discussions with you in the future, somewhere i am not worth it the time.

[TheSmJ]

People (at work) claim OSX is better, because it's Unix based, and therefore more business software can be ported to it.

Do they? No, because if they had been using Unix software on a machine running Unix in the past, they have no reason to change to OSX, buy new versions of the software they use (provided it has in fact been ported in the first place) and the Apple hardware itself, which would be more expensive than the Unix machines they already have.

For "Power users" like those that hang around in these forums, Macs suck. You cannot tweak them, you cannot overclock them, hell even the games are few and far between, not to mention get released on every other platform (PC and console) before they make it to the Mac.

For users who do nothing more than read e-mail, surf the web, etc... it's fine. They don't need to do anything a power user might, so they might as well not have the option to.

As for the graphic artist... there's Final Cut... everything else is available on the PC, or there are applications from another brand who do the exact same thing. I'm sure there are applications available for the PC which are comparable to Final Cut... I just dont care to look at the moment, and frankly don't care.

The user known as "(°_°)", you might as well give up. You're not going to change our minds... so just don't bother wasting everyone's time (including your own).

And to whoever started this argument, I made this thread to simply "show" a joke... so for the love of Lassie STFU about this played-out, endless debate.

["(°_°)"]

The user known as "(°_°)", you might as well give up. You're not going to change our minds...

re-read my posts.. plz. and show me just one post where i try to "change your minds" *lol* or "brainwashing" ...

i just wait 4 somebody who can talk with me on a zero level niveau! and who is not boring me with his opteron and god knows dreams of pc-supercomputers .. my first question (posting) was -"why mac vs pc" is or was my point, till now ..everybody try to tell me that the pc is the better machine or i can go home with my mac ...so what should i say? stop change my mind? .

regards

fery

[TheSmJ]

Ok... from now on, I will refer to you as "Troll".

The reason is self explanitory.

[a2jfreak]

Can we close this thread?

We all know Apple sux, even "(o_o)" knows this.
Macs are overpriced for their performance.
Can they do what most users need? Sure! But so can a $500 Gateway and I don't see anyone here insanely supporting Gateway. This is an enthusiast group of people, not a "can it cut the mustard" group of people. We like major performance without the budget of NASA. Mac doesn't fit into our mindset because it fails both criteria.

[TheBaron]

i just have one more quick response to this, as i see no point in writing out a thought out argument, since it wont get past troll.

WHAT THE HELL IS "WORKFLOW"??????!?!?!

omg lama

on a side note, for someone who spent so much money on those macs that you own, im surprised you didn't bother to do any research. the key to this board is that we're all open minded about technology. i mean, if these G5's can run linux and my PC can run linux, it seems to me they could be compared (granted diff distros, but whatev). the difference between us here at S-M and general mac users is that our heads aren't THICK AS A ****ing ROCK

/end rant

[Templar]

It's definately burning hot in here for winter...

:flame: :flame: :flame:

[TheBaron]

yeah im sorry for getting involved, but ignorance combined with stubborness just makes me mad

:coooooool dooooooown

[Shorty]

Goddamn it. Talk about turning into a BBQ,

"(°_°)" ... quit it. You are trolling.

Everyone else, this thread is temporarily gonna be shut down until the fire slows (at general members requests, so don't start the "heavy handed mod" BS, those who may be tempted).