In which Lincoln rages about forum software

[Lincoln]

Listen, I know no one cares, but I need somewhere to vent as I work on the migration to Vanilla.


This is how Vanilla presents a list of discussions:

<ul class="DataList Discussions">
<li class="DiscussionRow Alt Mine">

<ul class="Discussion">
<li class="Options">
<a href="/" class="Bookmark" title="Bookmark"><span>*</span></a>
<ul class="Options">
<li><strong>Options</strong>
<ul>
<li><a href="/" class="EditDiscussion">Edit</a></li>
<li><a href="/" class="AnnounceDiscussion">Announce</a></li>
<li><a href="/" class="SinkDiscussion">Sink</a></li>
<li><a href="/" class="CloseDiscussion">Close</a></li>
<li><a href="/" class="DeleteDiscussion">Delete</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li class="Title">
<strong><a href="/" class="DiscussionLink">Welcome to Icrontic</a></strong>
</li>
<li class="Meta">
<span>1 comment</span>
<span>Most recent by <a href="/">Lincoln</a> September 7</span>
<a href="/" class="Category">General</a>
</li>
</ul>

</li>
</ul>

Without the gratuitous indenting I added for clarity, it would nearly fit in the vBulletin code box.

Now here is how vBulletin does the same thing:

<table class="tborder" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="936px" align="center" id="threadslist">
<tbody>

<tr class="threadbit">
<td class="alt1" id="td_threadstatusicon_85593">
<a rel="vB::AJAX"></a>
<img src="thread_dot_new.gif" id="thread_statusicon_85593" alt="You have 2 post(s) in this thread, last Yesterday" border="" />
</td>
<td class="alt2">&nbsp;</td>
<td class="alt1" id="td_threadtitle_85593" title="I'm buying a Macintosh laptop for school. I need something fast and powerful. I need it to be able to run 3 CS4 programs without lagging out, so I'm thinking 2GB of RAM or larger. I'd like it to have...">
<a rel="vB::AJAX"></a>
<div>
<span style="float:right">
<img class="inlineimg" src="subscribed.gif" alt="You are subscribed to this thread" />
</span>
<a href="/" id="thread_gotonew_85593"><img class="inlineimg" src="firstnew.gif" alt="Go to first new post" border="0" /></a>
<a href="/" id="thread_title_85593" style="font-weight:bold">Buying a Mac for School...</a>
<span class="smallfont" style="white-space:nowrap">(<img class="inlineimg" src="multipage.gif" alt="Multi-page thread" border="0" /> <a href="/">1</a> <a href="/">2</a>)</span>
</div>
<div class="smallfont">
<span style="cursor:pointer" onclick="window.open('member.php?u=1742', '_self')">checkmate</span>
</div>
</td>
<td class="alt2" title="Replies: 53, Views: 733">
<div class="smallfont" style="text-align:right; white-space:nowrap">
Today <span class="time">5:39pm</span><br />
by <a href="/" rel="nofollow">checkmate</a> <a href="showthread.php?p=709121#post709121"><img class="inlineimg" src="lastpost.gif" alt="Go to last post" border="0" /></a>
</div>
</td>
<td class="alt1" align="center"><a href="/" onclick="who(85593); return false;">53</a></td>
<td class="alt2" align="center">733</td>
<td class="alt1">
<input type="checkbox" name="tlist[85593]" id="tlist_85593" value="0" />
</td>
</tr>

</tbody>
</table>

(Note that I redacted full URLs from both for clarity). GEE WHICH IS EASIER TO USE AND MAINTAIN? You don't have to be an HTML wiz to see how much I want back the hundreds of hours I've spent mucking in vBulletin. :sawed:

[Koreish]

Clearly you were doing it wrong.

[ardichoke]

I have a slightly deeper understanding now not only of the extent to which I hate VBulletin, but also to WHY I hate VBulletin. You know, besides the fact that 50% of the pain in the ass servers I deal with are being killed by VBulletin (If you hate your webhost, just put VBulletin on one of their shared servers or a VPS.... it will make them miserable).

[lunchb0x]

I have a slightly deeper understanding now not only of the extent to which I hate VBulletin, but also to WHY I hate VBulletin. You know, besides the fact that 50% of the pain in the ass servers I deal with are being killed by VBulletin (If you hate your webhost, just put VBulletin on one of their shared servers or a VPS.... it will make them miserable).

ardichoke and I's job would be so much easier if it weren't for vbulletin

[Kwitko]

Wow, what a novel idea, giving your CSS classes descriptive names! I happened across a Vanilla-powered forum yesterday. It took a little getting used to because I'm so familiar with vB, but 5 minutes in and I was surfing like a pro. It's so much easier to follow along. So much less clutter. And from a coder standpoint, I feel your pain.

[RyanMeray]

Using Table elements for formatting non-tabular data should be punishable by death. Or at least a swift kick to the nads.

[Lincoln]

I hear that vBulletin 4 won't use tables. If only that was their worst problem.

[RyanMeray]

It's 2009. If they're JUST NOW getting away from coding behaviors that were bad almost a decade ago, I'm sure that's just the tip of the iceberg.

[Lincoln]

I'm holding back from sitting here and typing up a bulleted list of their problems for the next hour.

[RyanMeray]

That's a blog post right there.

[ardichoke]

I'm holding back from sitting here and typing up a bulleted list of their problems for the next hour.
Do it. Please. I'll point all of our customers that ever have server problems due to VBulletin to the article. It will save me having to enumerate why VB sucks every time someone goes "why is my VPS crashing so much, I'm only running 10 VBulletin sites on it."

[Lincoln]

Well here's something to whet your appetite anyway 'til I write something more comprehensive:
Wordpress & vBulletin: a developer’s perspective (http://icrontic.com/articles/wordpresss-vbulletin-developer-perspective)
vBulletin’s blog system (http://icrontic.com/articles/vbulletins-blog-system)

[Lincoln]

vBulletin uses 4 database tables for private messages and it doesn't thread them into conversations.

Vanilla takes 2 tables and does thread them into conversations.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE. :mad2: