Yay for forced military service

[Camman]

I can't remember if this has been posted or not, I thought I had heard of it before someone sent me this article but I couldnt remember if it was here, so, spare me the "Welcome to last week" images if it has been.

But anyway this is gotta be one of the most insane things I've seen. I'm not worried about it because I'm pretty sure this would never see the light of day, but, kinda interesting anyway.

http://www.forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?t=124694&page=1

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:S.89:

[Geeky1]

Seen it. If it passes, I'll leave the country. I do not take orders well (I'm more likely to tell someone to f**k off than I am to do whatever they told me to, just on principal), and I have a major problem with putting my life on the line to protect anyone or anything other than myself, my family, and my posessions.

So, if it passes... I'm off to Sweden. 100Mb/s broadband for $40/month... :D

[TheSmJ]

It'll never pass. Ever.

Even if it did, I'd get myself a dishonerable discharge. I'll deal with the sentence to a low security resort prison (I bet the Vietnam vets would have taken that over the conditions they had there in Nam) and I'd be done with it.

[qparadox]

Why would any professional army want to waste its time and money training up a bunch of people who don't really want to be there and will be much less useful in actual combat than people who want to be there? The military will be against this all the way as they'd much rather have the money that would be wasted on training every youth in america to go towards training some damn good soldiers (like they currently have). In most of the countries in Europe that have this the military service done is more or less a joke from what my friends tell me. The army will fight this tooth and nail as will many disparate sectors of the US public. Not to mention the US military seems to be doing pretty good getting recruits recently ....

[Preacher]

This is definitely a double-edged sword, but the bill isn't about military service. It's about public service whether that be in a civilian or military context. Although many other countries have similar requirements (Israel and other small democracies), I don't think it would work here. I wouldn't want non-volunteers in my military, but I do think we all owe something back to our country and society. Americans rarely understand how overprivileged, overfed, out of touch, and mostly unthankful we are for all that we have and all those that have shed blood and sweat for us.

[Camman]

Americans rarely understand how overprivileged, overfed, out of touch, and mostly unthankful we are for all that we have and all those that have shed blood and sweat for us.

Appropriate online alias, eh? But seriously, I find it interesting that most adults I know think that "damn kids nowadays" have no respect for [insert item here] heres a few; government, military, adults. Which is completely innacurate. I have the utmost respect for all persons in the military, and while I sometimes may not agree with the reasons they are fighting, that's not THEIR reasons, thats the LEADERSHIPS reasons, so, I always have had respect for people putting their life on the line so that I can sleep soundly at night, I happen to have a close family member who was a long time United States Marine Corps veteran and he's one of the most honorable people I know.

[qparadox]

I think public / community service is a great thing and spend much of my free (and not free) time volunteering with many organizations, but forcing people to do it (especially in this age catagorey) is unlikely to win many converts.

[bothered]

There was a thread here concerning rewriting or altering some of the history they are allowed to teach in schools. Now this. I thought big brother was a piece of fiction?

[Templar]

Some people do not, simply, belong in the military. Some of us are meant to do other things. I could live with being in the military. I could probably live with it. I'd definately be in good shape after finishing, and I'd come out that much wiser.

[Preacher]

Appropriate online alias, eh? But seriously, I find it interesting that most adults I know think that "damn kids nowadays" have no respect for [insert item here] heres a few; government, military, adults. Which is completely innacurate. I have the utmost respect for all persons in the military, and while I sometimes may not agree with the reasons they are fighting, that's not THEIR reasons, thats the LEADERSHIPS reasons, so, I always have had respect for people putting their life on the line so that I can sleep soundly at night, I happen to have a close family member who was a long time United States Marine Corps veteran and he's one of the most honorable people I know.

Camman,
Guilty as charged (I got the callsign and just carried it over into the online realm), but I wasn't directing my comment at the young. It was meant to include all Americans. Being part of Gen X, I don't buy that BS that kids are weaker and softer nowadays. If we had to fight WWII, we'd have done the same thing as the supposed "Greatest Generation." I love our country and think it's the greatest, but we are more naive and sheltered than most.

Also, aren't we getting wrapped around the military part of this bill when the wording reads:

" FORM OF NATIONAL SERVICE- National service under this Act shall be performed either--

(1) as a member of an active or reserve component of the uniformed services; or

(2) in a civilian capacity that, as determined by the President, promotes the national defense, including national or community service and homeland security"

That leaves a lot open that isn't at all in military uniform. Nevertheless, I don't think it would work nor that it's a good idea.

[Camman]

hahah I was just ribbing ya about the name, no hard feelings man.

But yea it does leave a lot open, however I would assume most things would be military related "active or reserved uniformed service" "promotes national defense" however yes 'community service' could be many things.

[Preacher]

hahah I was just ribbing ya about the name, no hard feelings man.

None at all. :)

[Geeky1]

There was a thread here concerning rewriting or altering some of the history they are allowed to teach in schools. Now this. I thought big brother was a piece of fiction?

Not even close. And the more laws people allow to be passed, the more powerful he (it) grows.

[Clutch]

If they call me I'll go no questions asked. My family has a history of being in the service and going to war, my grandpa was in WWII and my dad was in Vietnam, so I'll go if they call me.

[Rot Katze]

I'd volunteer before they called me..

[RWB]

I am still reading up on this, damned bills are hard to read and understand....

I want to serve my country, and I think it is a great idea for everyone in our nation to do SOMETHING. I'll say more later...

[Preacher]

Now what if you could choose the method of service? Meaning it could be community involvement (aka Peace Corps), military service, government service, etc, etc...

[Clutch]

If you could choose the method of service, I guess that would be better. But if they call you in your most likely going in army.

[Geeky1]

Preacher: even then, if it involves going to a 3rd world country, I wouldn't do it. I'd rather leave the country.

[Mt_Goat]

I'd volunteer before they called me..

That was the case with me! I found out my number was coming (I was only 18 for 2 months) and I went and enlisted. My reasoning was that I could get what I wanted rather than be shlepped in where I was not up to my full potential or in something that fit me better.

I'm reading this biting my tongue as I see good and bad in it. I think we need to learn from our mistakes and a volunteer military has been better than one with a lot of slackers in it. However I think military service can have a good effect on most people and open their eyes to the real world as well as teach them some discipline. Maybe I'm old fashoned but I still beleive in "God and country".

[gibbonsl]

me it is to late

almost 8 years in the AF;)

[Preacher]

Maybe I'm old fashoned but I still beleive in "God and country".

I second that mtgoat, but that's probably obvious.

Preacher: even then, if it involves going to a 3rd world country, I wouldn't do it. I'd rather leave the country.

Would you do it under any conditions? If not or if so, can I ask why?

[RWB]

God
Family
Texas(Florida is a temp residence)
My Country

That is the order in which I serve.

I never went into the service like I wanted for personal reasons that meant more to me than serving. It still gets to me, I think about what if every day, thinking about joining and all that.

I didn't go into service under one pretext to myself, that is, that I would be there when I am needed, and I will proudly serve.

I am still curious as to how this bill is read. But I do know the majority of this nation needs a good swift kick in the ass.

[Clutch]

The order to which I serve

Family
Country

none other, but that is just me.

[Preacher]

Anybody ever read Starship Troopers by Robert Heinlein? Besides being much cooler than the movie (although Denise Richards was easy on the eyes), it had a much deeper message about what being a true citizen means. If I remember correctly, only "citizens that had served their country" were full members of society. The theory being that one could only appreciate something that was gained by sacrifice, risk, and service. While I don't advocate that necessarily in the real world, it's a great point.

[Geeky1]

Preacher;
Realistically speaking, no. There are no conditions under which I would serve in this country's armed services, or any other's, for that matter.

As for why... To put it simply, because I value my life, family, close friends, and posessions more than I value the lives of anyone else. To ask me to put my life on the line to protect people that I don't know and frankly don't give a f**k about is insane.

[RWB]

Anybody ever read Starship Troopers by Robert Heinlein? Besides being much cooler than the movie (although Denise Richards was easy on the eyes), it had a much deeper message about what being a true citizen means. If I remember correctly, only "citizens that had served their country" were full members of society. The theory being that one could only appreciate something that was gained by sacrifice, risk, and service. While I don't advocate that necessarily in the real world, it's a great point.

You should get the movie and watch the making of and features... I watched it earlier today(coincidence?), and it is what he thinks of how the world would be if Nazi's won, or someone similar.

"How Democracy Failed" freaky **** and has me asking more questions.... but I am barbaric by nature, and I like a Militaristic Society. Call me what you all want :wtf:

[Preacher]

RWB,
I don't see Heinlein's world as being fascist at all. Restrictive of the rights of those who won't fight for those rights..YES, but fascism is defined as a system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. Some of that applies, because the premise was martial law being declared against a clear and present threat to the entire earth. Yet much of it does not.

Geeky1,
I guess the answer would be then what would you fight for? I serve for the same reason as you do not. I see it as a way to preserve my family, my way of life, and my beliefs. I guess I believe that if I want to take advantage of all our society's benefits I should give something back in return protecting it. Not to insuinate that you can't do exactly the same thing in a non-military manner; I just chose the military.

[RWB]

Right Preach, however, the Racism part is the NAZI extremist version... Facism is not really racist generally though, but is usually taken as this through the propaganda machine.

Either way, according to those ideals, I guess you can call me a fascist sob ;) Not like I plan on being any political figure though so no big deal...

[Camman]

Family
Friends
Myself

is the order in which I "serve", whatever that means

[Brilt]

God (I have a lot staked in the big guy)
My faith (the right to keep it, and that everyone else does too)
Freedom (it comes before family because without it I wouldn't have a family)
Family
Humanity

May we remember freedom is not won in war or gained on the battlefield; it isn’t claimed at the end of combat. Freedom is not letting those who wish to take it away from us succeed.

As the motto goes gentlemen "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of all those who threaten it"

[Preacher]

;) Not like I plan on being any political figure though so no big deal...

Nor do I! Kinda hard when you have the obvious tendency to jump on a soapbox and start spouting platitudes.... :rockon:

[RWB]

God (I have a lot staked in the big guy)
My faith (the right to keep it, and that everyone else does too)
Freedom (it comes before family because without it I wouldn't have a family)
Family
Humanity

May we remember freedom is not won in war or gained on the battlefield; it isn’t claimed at the end of combat. Freedom is not letting those who wish to take it away from us succeed.

As the motto goes gentlemen "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of all those who threaten it"

This is why I have a gun...