Worst day ever

[Camman]

Well, I just wanted to share this with everyone because I figured maybe someone of you could shed some light on whether or not you think this is fair justice, or a great travesty of our legal system as I see it.

Let me just relate a little story here; back in April of 2002 my father pulled up to the front of our house to the side of the road as he was preparing to back into our driveway. Just as he pulled to the side of the road a girl in an 86 Cavalier ran dead on into his truck going 40mph in a 25mph zone. No brake screech, nothing, she just ran dead on into his truck, I was in the yard at the time and when I ran over to check on my father and then the occupents of this car, she came out talking on her cell phone. She was uninsured and had no assets, my fathers new truck was totaled, we lost several thousand dollars buying a new truck because the insurance only covered what was left on the loan for the destroyed on. This girl had a passenger in the backseat who at the time was 17 years old, he hit his head on the seatbelt buckle in front of him because he himself was not wearing one. Was the driver cited for speeding or minors not wearing seatbelts? No.
Everyone went to the hospital and was released the same day, the backseat passenger left with a bit of a scar on his forehead from the impact.

Go forward a few months, a Sheriff arrives at our front door delivering a notice of a lawsuit being brought against us by the backseat passenger, who, like this girl had no assets and receives welfare checks each month. He's suing us for this accident which his friend caused, however, he cannot go after her because she has no insurance and no assets to go after. We have a house, an insurance policy, and a few cars, but we certainly do not have any large sums of money or are not by any means rich at all.

So I've been a deposition, so has my father, we've been back and forth talking with our lawyer who is our lawyer, but she's through our insurance company and only working to protect the money the insurance company would have to dish out.

Flash forward to today. We receive a letter from Liberty Mutual (our insurance provider) informing us it would be wise to pursue our own personal attorney to protect our assets (ie; not allowing them to attach our HOUSE and VEHICLES to the case) because "the damages awarded in this case may exceed our coverage of $50,000 per person or $100,000 per accident" and any amount that went over that would be our own resposibility. Wow.

The case goes to trial the week of February 9th and now the fate of perhaps my home and my parents assets in which they work so hard to obtain and keep will be in the hands of a jury. A case in which my father did nothing but pull to the side of the road (a road in which it is completely LEGAL to PARK where he had pulled over) but now jeopardizes my entire family's living circumstances. Ah, the great legal system of the United States of America. Gotta love those ambulance chaser lawyers "You don't pay us unless we win!"

[TheBaron]

it seems to me that due to the circumstances, your eye-witness account, and the fact that your insurance (i assume) assigned blame to the girl (else i cant see how they would have paid you anything), a good lawyer ought to be able to whoop some serious ass in this situation.

on a side note, its **** like this that make me seriously consider law school. i mean honestly, just because you're on welfare and apparently an IDIOT doesn't mean you can get away with whatever you want.

real quick question though - if this girl is on welfare, how can she afford a cell phone plan? is it possible shes lying out her ass?

[Camman]

it seems to me that due to the circumstances, your eye-witness account, and the fact that your insurance (i assume) assigned blame to the girl (else i cant see how they would have paid you anything), a good lawyer ought to be able to whoop some serious ass in this situation.

on a side note, its **** like this that make me seriously consider law school. i mean honestly, just because you're on welfare and apparently an IDIOT doesn't mean you can get away with whatever you want.

real quick question though - if this girl is on welfare, how can she afford a cell phone plan? is it possible shes lying out her ass?

I'm not sure how she affords a cell phone, however she dropped out of school to have a baby, so she just turned 18 years old and has a child of her own. The lesson here is, if you have no money at all you can sue whomever you want because you simply have nothing to lose, we can't counter sue even if we win because there is no money involved that we could get out of these people. So, theyve caused us much concern and time, but, we can't do anything about.

And yes, our lawyer is working hard on this and seems to have it together, but, as I said our fate is in the hands of these people sitting on the jury.

[GnomeWizardd]

damn cars have been a center of problems today! your problem and my transmission!

[madmat]

File a countersuit no matter if the kid's living in a culvert.
If you do win the countersuit then any money the little cretin does make will be attached by your family until the debt is paid off.
If he buys a car in the near future you'll be able to place a lien against it, same goes for a house.
If he inherits any sum of money you'll also be able to put a lien against it.
I know you'll probably never see anything out of it but it's a tactic that might get him to reconsider bringing this to trial because if he loses the countersuit then the liens will be hanging over his head for years to come.

[LawnMM]

Couple things...

First thing, be prepared. Get everything you could possibly need or use for the trial ready ahead of time and make sure your lawyer knows all about it. You'll want a copy of the police report, I'm assuming they were called. Get a copy of the traffic accident investigator's report if they were called.

Stick to facts, not speculation. If she didn't skid, there's really only two ways to tell how fast she was going when she hit your father's truck, neither of which the average beat cop that gets called to the scene first is probably going to be aware of. Who told you she was doing 40mph?

Pictures are especially useful, take pictures of where it happened, make copies of any that were taken the day of the accident. Any pictures of the vehicles conditions afterwards. Marks on the road, etc. All of that can be useful.

Personally, I doubt this is going to come out in this idiot kid's favor in court. I don't see how they could possibly find your father liable for what happened as you've explained it. That doesn't stop them from trying though.

[Enverex]

Subscribing to thread.

[GHoosdum]

Good luck on this - I hope this bastard gets what he deserves - which is exactly nothing.

[Lincoln]

Agree with Madmat on the countersuit. Any decent lawyer should be able to put this in the bag for you.

[EyesOnly]

Man another suit. First it was that lottery thing and now this. hope everything works out for you. Reading your post it seems that yout father did nothing wrong, in which case there should be evidence to support it. If the only thing your father did was pull to the side and she slams right into him then she should get an eye exam.

Do countersue. Let them pay for what they've done. It seems to be way to easy to sue someone in the us. Don't like that at all.

[mmonnin]

I dont see any possible way they could win this.

[Clutch]

I hope nothing but the best for you. I don't see how this dumbass has a leg to stand on in the case, but you never know with these days. I mean just look at the case where the guy broke into a womans house, fell on a knife and sued her and won, its sad I tell you.

When I went to court for the guy who painted my old car, I took pictures after pictures and just kept my nerve and everything came out just fine. Take every ounce of evidence you can think of.

[Camman]

Couple things...

First thing, be prepared. Get everything you could possibly need or use for the trial ready ahead of time and make sure your lawyer knows all about it. You'll want a copy of the police report, I'm assuming they were called. Get a copy of the traffic accident investigator's report if they were called.

Stick to facts, not speculation. If she didn't skid, there's really only two ways to tell how fast she was going when she hit your father's truck, neither of which the average beat cop that gets called to the scene first is probably going to be aware of. Who told you she was doing 40mph?

Pictures are especially useful, take pictures of where it happened, make copies of any that were taken the day of the accident. Any pictures of the vehicles conditions afterwards. Marks on the road, etc. All of that can be useful.

Personally, I doubt this is going to come out in this idiot kid's favor in court. I don't see how they could possibly find your father liable for what happened as you've explained it. That doesn't stop them from trying though.

She admitted herself to the police when they were writing up the report that she was going approx 38mph at the time of the accident, why she was never issued a citation for going well over 10mph over the speed limit is beyond me. Our lawyer has all the accident photos and such and she even has a written report by an independent accident reconstruction specialist stating my father couldn't have possibly been backing up at the time (their original argument was illegal backing, it has since change :rolleyes: ) But yes, our lawyer has all the accident reports and photos and such.

[fudgam]

As for the welfare girl having a cell phone plan, crap like that isnt unheard of. You guys know that welfare will provide baby formula? Talk about a waste of money that others are paying for(assuming the mother doesnt have AIDS or something like that).

[TheSmJ]

Did this person file as an uninsured motorist? If not she (or her passenger) might not be able to get anything anyhow.

These people should get the **** beaten out of them... God it's people who do things like this I hate.

[Armo]

just remember every one gets divine retribution

[pseudonym]

Liberty Mutual is the SCUM OF THE EARTH. Tell them to go fcuk themselves, and get a lawyer. With your eyewitness accounts, the fact he isn't going after the girl, and their probable questionable credibility, you SHOULD be ok. With the cops doing nothing though, I'd be a bit worried. Hopefully you can find a good lawyer that won't rape you on price, then sue liberty mutual for something, they deserve it.

//edit- And he wasn't wearing a belt, that should help too.

[Straight_Man]

Camman,

One thing that would be good is to have the assigned judge subpeona the medical treatment records from the plaintiff (in essence this is an order to produce relevant records of evidence of claim). HIS grounds for suit need to be injury based. HE cannot sue for HER unless the two were legally man and wife at time of accident. So, if you can show that there is a lack of immediate medically related damage proven to be directly related to the accident by him and supported by the medical records generated at time of first treatment, suit is shown to be groundless or at the least called into extreme questionablility. Then countersue based on a frivolous and groundless lawsuit, for legal costs and the emotional and monetary damages related to having to defend a groundless suit-- include any time your dad took off from work, time spent deposing on your part that you had to take off from work, then treble the claim.

Have your attorney file an intent to sue letter with the plaintiff. Demand repayment of your attorney's fees and all time off from work at your workplace and all time off your dad had to take, and state that failure to make payments or sign an immediate binding agreement to repay will result in damages of tortuous kind being added to counterclaim. IF, at that time, the plaintiff offers to withdraw suit, get a quit claim from him as to future suits pursued on this fact set basis, and an agreement to repay any costs you have incurred due to this suit being FILED.

Definitely go after this dude and possibly the driver also. They think your family is an easy mark, IMHO, and they need to know this is totally untrue in a very solid way. Their replies will be evidence should they choose not to drop the suit, and at the least you will know how good THIER lawyer is. Technically, your lawyer should file for immediate dismissal now-- if that has been done, and rejected, your family needs a lawyer, yes. Definitely. One who knows TORT and liability law.

Liability rests on two issues, basicly. First, is criminal liability-- this dude cannot use that, only Police or a government can do so or would need to provide evidence of criminality, and that AFAIK is non-existant here on your side. This is civil. AFAIK, these folks were NOT INVITED to run into your dad's truck, they were in no way invitees. If they hit your dad's truck while it was wholely on your dad's land, they trespassed to hit the truck or while hitting it (they were not invited to drive onto your land, certainly not invited to damge your father's property).

If it was on a road right-of-way part of land alongside road, their suit if any cannot be against YOUR FAMILIES assets as that right-of-way is local government administered. THEN, the city or government insurance would need to pay, not you, and suit is groundless by nature and on its face (prima facie frivoluous lawsuit).

False claims are reactively actionable so many ways that you could countersue simply on basis of lie as to claim liability in law and in fact, which besmerches(SP?) your family's reputation and that sullying is worth money especially if you handle it as a tortuous attempt to deliberately defraud and besmerch with no provocation present. GET a lawyer for your family, definitely. AND see if that lawyer will work for a share of funds received, and not a lot of upfront funds. Given what you say, that IS possible.

John.

[LawnMM]

She admitted herself to the police when they were writing up the report that she was going approx 38mph at the time of the accident, why she was never issued a citation for going well over 10mph over the speed limit is beyond me. Our lawyer has all the accident photos and such and she even has a written report by an independent accident reconstruction specialist stating my father couldn't have possibly been backing up at the time (their original argument was illegal backing, it has since change :rolleyes: ) But yes, our lawyer has all the accident reports and photos and such.

Then you're in the clear, stop worrying.

[Camman]

Then you're in the clear, stop worrying.

Yes, it appears after hearing what our current lawyer had to say it seems I may have overreacted. Apparently this is just a formality for Liberty Mutual to cover there arses and be able to say they gave us a heads up. Our lawyer said that if for some reason they did win and it was more than our insurance liability covered then we would need to get a different lawyer to sue Liberty Mutual (which we dont want to do) but would have to because they failed to protect our interests by not settling within our liablity and therefore causing financial damage to us. Like I said, we dont want to do that, hopefully we will have an intelligent jury which will see this for what it is.

That aside, it's still ridiculous that cases like this can even be brought about because only one party in the accident (the VICTIM) was the one with insurance, when I move out, I'm heading to a state with mandatory insurance laws.

[TheBaron]

a few years back my dad was involved in a 3 car pile-up where he was in the middle. he hit the car in front of him (a beetle) and the guy got out and was okay. he then proceeded to pick his car up and drag it to the side of the road (this isn't so unbelievable, i've done it with my civic). the funny thing is, the cops were around when he did this, and he then proceeded to sue US for the whiplash and back injuries that came from his stupid actions. in our case, we countersued and got ended up coming out even. the moral of the story - stupidity should never win, and usually doesn't


...



wait, your state doesn't have mandatory insurance laws? i thought that was a federal thing... go texas for requiring people to pay for their actions

[Templar]

Everyone drives, unless your jury takes the bus everyday, but that is unlikely. Everyone knows that accidents happen, and *******s try to take advantage of them. Unless your jury is totally incompetent, you should have no problem with this case. And yeah, you are blowing things a bit out of proportion. No offense, but take a breather. Try doing something to take your mind off of it.

[Camman]

perhaps you are right about blowing things out of proportion, but you know, its just hard to keep calm when hearing things put that way in a letter. But, I have calmed down much since yesterday :)

[Clutch]

I don't consider it blowing things out of proportion when your family's pride, life, money, assests are on the line myself.

[qwikk]

wait, your state doesn't have mandatory insurance laws? i thought that was a federal thing... go texas for requiring people to pay for their actions

it's mandatory if you're under 18, which I don't think she was at the time.

Cam-dude, if you need me as a witness or anything (which you probably won't), you know I'm down for it. Jeremy is a retard and needs to be shown that he is. and I'm certainly willing to at least go to the trial (if I don't have class or if you need me).

[profdlp]

I just came upon this thread. Glad to hear that you're feeling a little better about things today.

Most suits of this type fall into the "nuisance" category; they probably don't see themselves as winning, but are hoping that your family will quietly pay them off to go away.

I hope you nail them to the wall. :zombie: :werr: :grumble:

[LawnMM]

it's mandatory if you're under 18, which I don't think she was at the time.

Cam-dude, if you need me as a witness or anything (which you probably won't), you know I'm down for it. Jeremy is a retard and needs to be shown that he is. and I'm certainly willing to at least go to the trial (if I don't have class or if you need me).

You have to have liability insurance anywhere at any age, period. You don't have to have insurance that will pay for the damages done to YOU, just others.

[qwikk]

not in NH, I think it's one of the few states where you're not required to have any insurance after 18. I don't have any right now, mainly because my car is a pile, and I don't make enough to afford it.

[Camman]

You have to have liability insurance anywhere at any age, period. You don't have to have insurance that will pay for the damages done to YOU, just others.

Yeah, that would be a negatory. Liability is not required in the state of New Hampshire if you're over the age of 18.

[bothered]

You don't have to have insurance?
Everybody here does. I get ripped off every year. I'm almost 51, have never had an accident, am an experianced driver, but my insurance is over 500 pounds!
Us Brits get ripped off at every turn.

[Templar]

I don't consider it blowing things out of proportion when your family's pride, life, money, assests are on the line myself.

Believe me. It's much more diffifcult to lose everything you own from a case like this than the media makes it out to be. It just doesnt happen that way.

[GHoosdum]

You don't have to have insurance?
Everybody here does. I get ripped off every year. I'm almost 51, have never had an accident, am an experianced driver, but my insurance is over 500 pounds!
Us Brits get ripped off at every turn.

In most US States it is illegal to drive an automobile without insurance. That law doesn't stop the more belligerent folks out there from doing it though.

[profdlp]

In Virginia you must either have proof of insurance, or pay a $400 Uninsured Motorist Fee. This doesn't provide any insurance at all, nor does it relieve you of liability. The biggest problem is that the most irresponsible people (apt to have high premiums, anyway) see $33.33 a month (monthly average) as a huge bargain. When I'm Governor I'm going to push to raise the fee to at least $1500 a year, indexed to inflation.

[bothered]

If I lived there Prof you'd have my vote.

[mmonnin]

Same here prof.

In Ohio its a law to have at least liability. I had complete full coverage until the car was put in my name and I got a new car after that. Then it was too much.

[fuxor]

what's he suing for? physical injuries? I thought everyone was released from the hospital the same day. Can't be whiplash, they hit you! shall we make a checklist of the reasons they have no chance here?

-Your father was legally parked
-They hit him
-They were speeding
-They have no insurance
-Passenger wasn't wearing a seatbelt
-They admitted guilt
-There were no serious injuries worth anything near $50,000

Clearly, Your father was not at fault. These deadbeats are just trying to squeeze money out of someone who has more than they do. If this case ever sees a courtroom, it won't last 15 minutes. My condolences on your truck, and the legal fees, and the fact that you can't counter sue.

[QCH]

I associate with several police officers from several towns around me (Chicago Area). Most hit and runs are from immigrants that find cheap cars and then drive them without insurance. My insurance goes up. They all say that the mandatory liability insurance has helped but the fact that having a car registered does not require insurance. That is, you can get the plate renewed and never need to have insurance.

I got hit a few years ago (minor) and I had the wrong insurance card (card was for my other car). I got ticketed for no valid insurance. The guy that rear ended me was ticket for speeding and failure to reduce speed to avoid an accident. He has "proof" of insurance but when my insurance called his.... he had canceled days after receiving the card. I had to go to court and show the correct insurance card and that's it... He paid his fines and was off the case since his address was incorrect on his license... oh well.

I think the Federal government should make every car that has plates have insurance. If the owner drops the insurance, the insurance should notify the department of motor vehicles (computer databases should be linked) to have the plates flagged. That way, when an officer runs the plate for any reason, the plates would show the vehicle is not insured... BOOM... ticket and impound the car. That’s my 2 cents.

Also, STOP the frivolous lawsuits. A judge should look at your Dad’s case and turn the tables on the other guy and fine him for being stupid.

[CB]

mandatory 'insurance' is not insurance it's a tax. It would be easier and cheaper to just make it an actual tax.

The government could federalize the 'insurance' companies. Make them non-profit, and give everybody free insurance in exchange for a flat tax increase that is much les than most people pay for their present 'insurance'. Then everyone is insured. If you want more than liability, or if your bank makes you get it, than you can use private companies for that.

I feel the same way about health 'insurance'.

I apologize in advance if this ends up hijacking the thread

[GHoosdum]

Communist. :rolleyes:

[CB]

No, I just don't like wasting my money on what passes for 'insurance' these days. It's a total sham... Usually, I'm totally on the side of privatization of all business. This is one exception to that stance.

[CB]

And I will continue to use little quotes around the word 'insurance' until the problem is solved...

[fuxor]

insurance in general is a sham business cause it's gambling with your misfortune. For the most part you pay a high premium for something you may never use, so when people get into an accident, or get robbed, or their house burns down, they try to take advantage of the insurance company and make false claims to try to squeeze as much worth out of their insurance as possible. It's an industry that breeds deceit.

I like the idea of a flat tax except for one thing: not everyone drives, so not everyone needs car insurance... health insurance, however.... :)

[CB]

insurance in general is a sham business cause it's gambling with your misfortune. For the most part you pay a high premium for something you may never use, so when people get into an accident, or get robbed, or their house burns down, they try to take advantage of the insurance company and make false claims to try to squeeze as much worth out of their insurance as possible. It's an industry that breeds deceit.


You're exactly right. That's what I'm saying precisely. But insurance wasn't always that way. originally insurance was a community thing, or something done between friends or groups of bussiness owners.

Example:

There is a community of about 600 people, let's call them 'Short-medians'. They are all friends and can trust each other. Every month each of them pays $10 into an 'insurance pool'. That's $6000 dollars a month. If ever any of them finds themselves in some kind of emergency, then they can draw from the pool. There is no one who is actually making money in this scenario, unless we pay someone a salary to maintain the funds for us.

The above scenario is real insurance, as it is meant to be.

The problem comes in when someone desides that they want to try and actually make as much money as they can. They start restricting what kinds of things you can draw from the pool for, and the worst of all they start charging more to the people who they feel are more likely to need to draw from the pool. That is not insurance. It is a scam. (pronounced: Scam-ol-laa)

It's also a problem that present 'insurance' geoups are noy a small community of friends, they are millions of faceless people who don't give a lick about the 'insurance' company, and likely don't even want to be insured. This is where the second part of what you said comes in, Fuxor. People would be a lot less likely to try and scam their 'insurance' company if they knew that they would be ripping off 599 friends, rather than just some billionare corporation that doesn't care about them either...

I don't have any strong feelings about this at all

[GHoosdum]

As much as I hate paying my insurance bill, I shure wouldn't want to be without it when my brakes lock up on the ice, causing me to rear-end a family of four, and their medical bills overtop what I make in a year, and I have to replace their car... Nor do I want the guy that does that to me to lack insurance!

[Enverex]

Yeah, try getting insurance over here if you are male and under 30. You probably can't afford it.