Enverex and Shorty's Athlon 64 discussion where Enverex talks to himself... alot..

[Enverex]

Which do you think is best for the Athlon 64 platform out of either the Asus KV8-Deluxe, or the Abit AV8-Max3?
I don't like the Max3 as much due to the removal of lagacy equip, and I heard the heatpipe can get in the way too.

But, which would (any of you) recommend?

Shorty: Total price for Max3 and A64 3200+ from Dabs inc VAT and Del is £342

[Shorty]

That's good money :)

Ive got a Biostar K8NHA Pro from a friend, so it's only cost me £200 for CPU :)

If I was picking, Id go with the ABIT, just depends if you need the legacy hardware.

[Enverex]

Bah. Just need to borrow £40 from the 'rents and I can order. Just need to confirm that the Max3 is indeed the better buy..

Oi, <img src="http://atomnet.co.uk/ss/img/thraxtel.gif" alt="THRAXTEL!"> what happened to your 1 minute response times? :p

[Shorty]

Oi, <img src="http://atomnet.co.uk/ss/img/thraxtel.gif" alt="THRAXTEL!"> what happened to your 1 minute response times? :p
:ukflag: :woowoo: is all I have to say

[Enverex]

PRICE DROP ON KOMPLETT!

122811 AMD Athlon 64 3000+ 2.0 GHz
- Socket 754, 512 KB cache, BOXED 10-19
stocked 164.31

120919 AMD Athlon 64 3200+ 2.0 GHz
- Socket 754, 1 MB cache, BOXED 7
stocked 198.96

123016 AMD Athlon 64 3400+ 2.2 GHz
- Socket 754, 1 MB cache, BOXED 4
stocked 297.96

(all including VAT) Woohoo, even more incentive to order.

EDIT: AND THE MOTHERBOARDS!

Abit KV8-MAX3 mainboard for Socket 754
- K8T800, SATA, LAN, ATX, Raid, Firewire 7
stocked 116.33

120573 Asus K8V DELUXE Mainboard Socket 754
- K8T800, ATA/SATA, GbLAN, ATX, Raid 5 pcs
2004-01-30
(unconfirmed) 105.75


So the new total is £320 for the Athlon 64 3200+ (Retail-Boxed) and the Abit KV8-Max3 including delivery and VAT :)

[Enverex]

Cmon, I have 20 mins else my stuff won't be shipped for tommorow.... :(

[edcentric]

How can you go wrong with either?
It sort of depends on your personal feelings.
I like the Abit boards, but I haven't moved into this league yet.

[Enverex]

Well, the Abit Max3 and the A64 3200+ were ordered earlier today and should arrive tommorow :)

[Shorty]

Im building mine up tomorrow night.. so keep us posted :D

[Thrax]

One minute response time is called sleep.

[EyesOnly]

Hey enverex didn't you say something about not liking via chipsets. they both seem to have them. As for upgrading is it worth going 64bit or should one wait. Can you tell me the differenses that socket 740 has compared to what is known about socket 939. Even if it's just rumours. Not sure which one to wait for.

[primesuspect]

Via's athlon chipsets are crap, but I think perhaps they are coming back around with their K8 chipsets. I've heard that VIA's offering for the Ath64/Opteron platform is more stable than nVidia's.

[Enverex]

Hey enverex didn't you say something about not liking via chipsets.

Only as all the old ones seem to have had issues with Sound Blaster cards, and used to be slower than the parallel nForce offerings.

As for upgrading is it worth going 64bit or should one wait

The reason I am upgrading is actually completely unrelated to it being a 64bit chip. I am only upgrading to gain the extra speed (there is only so long you can cope with a mem score of 2100 in Sandra with DDR400 RAM).

[EyesOnly]

Since whatever upgrade i make will be months away perhaps i should consider going 64bit after all. Correct me if but computers without a 64bit os will still work, you just won't get the extra power that 64bits will give.

[Enverex]

Since whatever upgrade i make will be months away perhaps i should consider going 64bit after all. Correct me if but computers without a 64bit os will still work, you just won't get the extra power that 64bits will give.

Yes, but only if the processor supports 32bit as well as 64bit. Note that all these game benchmarks etc are all 32bit, so not all the power of the processor is being harnessed, though I doubt there would be a huge increase using 64bit....

[Thrax]

Media encoding is showing a 40-60% speed increase on a 64bit platform. MPEG2, MPEG4, etc.

Media encoding translates well to other forms of applications.

[leishi85]

good thing you went with the abit, i jsut read some stuff about the asus board with deforming capacitors.

That was found in a hidden FAQ about the Asus K8V Deluxe

Q:I have heard some rumors saying that the appearance of some capacitors on K8V Deluxe may deform soon after use. Is that true? How do I check if my K8V Deluxe is affected, and what should I do next if mine happened to be like that?

A:It has been discovered recently that the nine electrolytic capacitors CE18, CE19, CE20, CE21, CE22, CE25 , CE38, CE39, CE45 (see Figure1, used at power stabilization circuitry) may expand and fracture. This problem has been confirmed to result from quality control of RLZ 0333 capacitors, and proven to happen only on a small number of such capacitors which can be easily distinguished from the RLZ 0333 marking (see Figure 2) on them.
If you need further support after finding RLZ 0333 capacitors at these nine locations, or experiencing symptom as described above on K8V Deluxe motherboards, please kindly contact your place of purchase, supplier, or the nearest ASUS service centre for immediate follow-up.
http://www.warp2search.net/images/a8v_top.jpg

[Enverex]

Right, I am worried now. Does the heatsink base come with the heatsink itself, as I just noticed this on a review for the Max3 -

Though the board is pictured with a heat sink retention bracket, the KV8-MAX3 doesn't actually come with one. The plastic bracket and metal back plate that make up AMD's new heat sink retention mechanism surely can't be that expensive, so I'm not sure why Abit doesn't include them with the board.

As if they don't, then I am screwed (I am intending on using the stock HSF that comes with the Boxed proc).
Any idea if I need anything else other than the stock HSF to mount it on this motherboard?

[Shorty]

Right, I am worried now. Does the heatsink base come with the heatsink itself, as I just noticed this on a review for the Max3 -



As if they don't, then I am screwed (I am intending on using the stock HSF that comes with the Boxed proc).
Any idea if I need anything else other than the stock HSF to mount it on this motherboard?
If you bought a retail chip, it comes with the whole retention setup :)

[Enverex]

If you bought a retail chip, it comes with the whole retention setup :)

Cheers Shorty, thats put me at rest :) (I bought the boxed A64).

[Enverex]

Damnit, it turns out, that unlike everywhere else, their next day delivery cut off is 2pm, not 4. So it won't be arriving today as the status is still "Being Picked". Kind of makes DHL overnight delivery a bit pointless.

[Shorty]

Well my case didnt arrive today :(

So I have no case to put my A64 system in. Gotta wait a day as well. I feel for ya.

[EyesOnly]

64bit does seem as a good investment asuming that socket 754 isn't going to go away for some time but continue to be faster. Or should one simply wait for socket 939. I know that there's at the moment no 64bit windows but that shouldn't take to long . What will the differens be with 939. What functions is it supposed to have that makes it a worthy upgrade.

[Enverex]

It in itself doesn't have any new functions at all, it's purely a socket. It's what AMD may do to the processor or what motherboard manufacturers may choose to add to or change on motherboards that will add appeal if they do decide to change anything, but at the moment, no-one knows what is going to happen. DDR2 was expected to come along with Socket 939, but now it is being pushed back to next year due to excessive prices.

[Enverex]

It has now arrived, and I shall be offline untill it is installed and Windows is Reinstalled :)

[Shorty]

Keep us informed :)

Can't start building mine until tonight.. so you are gonna beat me ;)

[EyesOnly]

Good luck en and shorty. Well if 939 doesn't add to much good stuff i'm defently going with socket 754 instead of socket A. Seems that the real power will be in 64bit even before an os is out. Now i'll start checking reviews of that asus board. BTW how's the sound on those boards. Is it good or should one buy a soundcard.

I'll take my chances regarding that capacitor thing. It's prolly just some batches that were built wrongly. I'll try to find that faq and see what it says.

[Enverex]

Lo all, back in my new Windows install with everything working. When I first turned it on, all the lights on the Motherboard lit up, and even when it is turned off, the dual HEX displays stay on and a superbright green LED by the PCI cards. When it is turned on another superbright LED comes on by the PCI slots, and 2 more by the processor itself, lights up the whole case :). For some reason, when I first turned it on, it was set to 204mhz FSB, a natural overclocked, eh :p
Seems very sharp. I'm just going to make my usual cosmetic adjustments then I'll do some benching, though my HD has got a tad faster too....

[Shorty]

Lookin and sounding good mate :)

Smooth installation all round then? What do you think of the heatsink+fan mechanism?

[EyesOnly]

Glad everything worked out for you enverex.

[Enverex]

Lookin and sounding good mate :)

Smooth installation all round then? What do you think of the heatsink+fan mechanism?

Well, firstly I was trying to do it the wrong way round, I put the black clamp and the metal clip next to it on first, and I was trying to put the other side on thinking "The manual says you may have to apply SOME pressure, but this is silly", when I realised it shouldn't be clamped down before, and when I worked that out it took about 5 seconds to attach and was really easy :p In future though it will be a lifesaver as normally it's a pain in the ass. I rubbed off the crap they gave me on the HS and put AS2 on it instead. Oh, turns out, all the reviews are wrong and Abit DO give you a mounting thingy anyway, so I have 2 now :) .

Completely hassle free installtion and everything. No problems at all. Just installing SP1 and then i'll bench.

The code on the processor was -
ADA3200AEP5AP
CAAMC 0339WPMW
9446635J30666

[Thrax]

WOOT!

Grats NS. Nice system you got there for sure. :D

[Enverex]

Shorty: DO NOT USE EXTRA VOLTAGE! For some reason, if I up the voltage from 1.5v it wont post, but if I leave it where it is, even when overclocking, it's fine (wierd, eh?).

Currently is is running at 2202Mhz (220Mhz FSB) and here are some benches (RAM is running at crappest timings possible. I said it was my old Motherboard keeping me back, couldn't get past 185 on that Epox pos...) Running Prime95 now just to make sure this is stable, then I will continue on up :) .

[Thrax]

95% memory efficiency at ****ty timings. Not bad.

[Enverex]

Last bench before I up the ante -

[Enverex]

Right, I don't seem to be able to go over 220 otherwise my system goes crazy. It starts trying to boot off my network card for some unknown reason and it generally doesn't like it. I have a feeling it is more likely to be my RAM still holding me back.

[Enverex]

Ok, found a really, really stupid problem with this motherboard. Every time you reboot, the CPU voltage drops down 0.001 in the BIOS, so every so often you need to top it back up again. I have also downloaded the latest of their uGuru software and it still says "This liveupdate software is too old, you must download the latest version".

Yay for Abit.

[Shorty]

Well I have serious problems with my setup :(

Ive tried installing WinXP three times.. and three times.. its failed :(

Just one stick of memory in and currently installing Windows 2000. Just gotta be sure its not bad media.. as this CD has seen better days.

:(

[Shorty]

Install borked half way through... so Ive done some checking. This memory is good for the A64.. but might be slightly undervolting... so ive upped the VDimm a notch (I did the same with this memory in my NF7-S).. so tryin again :)

[Enverex]

Install borked half way through... so Ive done some checking. This memory is good for the A64.. but might be slightly undervolting... so ive upped the VDimm a notch (I did the same with this memory in my NF7-S).. so tryin again :)

What speed RAM is it and what voltage is it at by default?

[WuGgaRoO]

wow, copper on a stock hsf....i thought id never see the day...

[Shorty]

What speed RAM is it and what voltage is it at by default?

Its TwinMOS PC3200 with Winbond.. stock 2.65

[NeoFX]

I have had trouble with Abit videocards in the past but I decided to try the IC7-Max 3 (Intel board) and I love it! They truly make wonderful motherboards! Good choice on going with the Abit! Hope you like your A64 too :D I would have gotten an A64 but money was gettin up ther if I did that!

[Shorty]

Board has just died completely on me. Did the same with both PSUs and two different sticks of RAM. It's a gonna :(

Gutted.

[Enverex]

I have had trouble with Abit videocards in the past but I decided to try the IC7-Max 3 (Intel board) and I love it! They truly make wonderful motherboards! Good choice on going with the Abit! Hope you like your A64 too :D I would have gotten an A64 but money was gettin up ther if I did that!

Well at the moment I am seriously not impressed. There are now 3 clear issues with this board (that they better fix with BIOS updates or I will be VERY annoyed). Firstly, if the Damage alarm goes off (not entirely sure what triggers it) it doesn't go off, EVER. You need to pull out the mains and pull out the CMOS battery. Secondly, every boot the processor voltage goes down. After 10 reboots it will be 0.01v lower (its actually set the voltage control down a notch), which is alot when overclocking an A64. Thirdly, their Windows BIOS flash software is stupid. First it says the version I have it too old, download the new one. So I do, and it's STILL too old, so I manually DL the BIOS and tell it to flash with that. Right, it's fine... or so I thought. Yay. I no longer have a SI SATA or VIA SATA controler. NO BOOT DEVICE. So, I download the BIOS and the flasher and make a boot disk with another machine, boot to that and flash again, and that fixed that.

All in all, I don't recommend this motherboard, it seems to be in Beta stages at best.

Shorty: I have that RAM. It is ASS. It wont do CMD1 at anything higher than 180Mhz, and it won't do anything higher than 2-3-3-3 CMD-3 at 220Mhz. It is only PC3200 at semi-lax timings. I currently have it at 2.8v. Anything higher and I no-longer have a display, anything lower and it is unstable (although that depends on your speed).

[EyesOnly]

Just a quick question on ram. Which should one choose. Whilst selecting the asus board in komplett it shows accessories and an this case for memory it has selected Corsair XMS TWINX PRO3200LL 1024MB but according to asus site one can use ordinary ram to, or am i missing something. Which memory should one use for socket 754?

[Enverex]

Just a quick question on ram. Which should one choose. Whilst selecting the asus board in komplett it shows accessories and an this case for memory it has selected Corsair XMS TWINX PRO3200LL 1024MB but according to asus site one can use ordinary ram to, or am i missing something. Which memory should one use for socket 754?

Decent 3200 is really the minimum. Something like the Corsair XMS 3200 or so like you already have selected. I don't know if getting the Asus board is a good idea though as there are reports of the capisitors on them bursting.

[drasnor]

Just a quick question on ram. Which should one choose. Whilst selecting the asus board in komplett it shows accessories and an this case for memory it has selected Corsair XMS TWINX PRO3200LL 1024MB but according to asus site one can use ordinary ram to, or am i missing something. Which memory should one use for socket 754?

Pretty sure you can use any unbuffered RAM you like with an A64, though the system will be limited by RAM speed on anything lower than DDR400.

I like my system screenshots.

[NeoFX]

A darn man! That sucks, sorry to hear you're havin troubles. Gonna try another board then or what?

[Shorty]

Yep.. another board :(

[EyesOnly]

Decent 3200 is really the minimum. Something like the Corsair XMS 3200 or so like you already have selected. I don't know if getting the Asus board is a good idea though as there are reports of the capisitors on them bursting.

Pretty sure you can use any unbuffered RAM you like with an A64, though the system will be limited by RAM speed on anything lower than DDR400.

Thanks for clearing that up. I must have confused the ram needs for what socket 940 needs. I think i'll go with the corsair 3200LL non pro. Cheaper than the pro version. I'll read some reviews to see if i can find more info on that capasitor thing you're talking about. If it's that bad than the only boards left seems to be msi and epox. Perhaps going for 754 isn't so good after all.

[Enverex]

Thanks for clearing that up. I must have confused the ram needs for what socket 940 needs. I think i'll go with the corsair 3200LL non pro. Cheaper than the pro version. I'll read some reviews to see if i can find more info on that capasitor thing you're talking about. If it's that bad than the only boards left seems to be msi and epox. Perhaps going for 754 isn't so good after all.

Yeah, the socket 940 machines need registered ECC sticks.
There isn't anything wrong with the Epox and MSI boards as far as I am aware, so you may as well look into those.

My Athlon 64 was failing all last night on F@H, so I changed the RAM back to automatic from CAS2 and it has completeled one and a half work units in 9 hours, so, it seems to be stable at 2.2ghz and the only thing holding me back is the RAM :) . Wonder how much I could get for my old AthlonXP 1800 and Epox board (the processor does 1950Mhz, but the board isn't good for overclocking :( )

[Enverex]

You should be alright with the Max3 to be honest actually. Turns out all but the decreasing RAM are down to my RAM being crap. The processor is a rock at 220 but I can't do anything at 230 which leads me to believe the RAM is being crap as the processor isn't likely to drop out that fast, also the fact that it is already running at dire timings too. This is what caused the Alarm too.

Turns out that the voltage doesn't decrease every boot, it decreases each time I go in the BIOS, so as long as you remember to knock it up +1 point every time you are in there, it's fine.

So, I retract my previous statement about this board. When they fix the voltage, this will be the perfect board. Interesting too as reviewers couldn't get it above 215Mhz FSB and they had to massively increase all the voltages too. I have a feeling Abit may have improved it since.

I'm going to see if I can lower my memory timings even more and up the FSB some more.

Thrax: Can you draw on my previous RAM timings shot and show my which way to change them to lower their performance please. Some of them are obvious, but others seem to go the other way in the BIOS, so lower doesn't always seem to be better. I just need clarification.

[EyesOnly]

And i who spent this morning reading about 10 reviews of the asus board. :( Tomorrow i'll see what i can find on the abit then.

[Enverex]

And i who spent this morning reading about 10 reviews of the asus board. :( Tomorrow i'll see what i can find on the abit then.

You should be reading reviews on all of the boards, not just 1. You may find there is no point at all in getting one of the more expensive boards.

I can't get this RAM to run any faster, it goes insane if I set it to CAS3, so I basically need better RAM to get anymore out of this system.

[EyesOnly]

I still think i'll go with the top boards anyway. BTW is it true that the kv8 comes with rounded idecables. If so i might save some money since i was planning on getting them anyway. I'm reading some reviews on the board now. If nothing really bad is mentioned i'll go with that one instead.

[Thrax]

Shorty: DO NOT USE EXTRA VOLTAGE! For some reason, if I up the voltage from 1.5v it wont post, but if I leave it where it is, even when overclocking, it's fine (wierd, eh?).

Currently is is running at 2202Mhz (220Mhz FSB) and here are some benches (RAM is running at crappest timings possible. I said it was my old Motherboard keeping me back, couldn't get past 185 on that Epox pos...) Running Prime95 now just to make sure this is stable, then I will continue on up :) .

From the top down on your memory shots, the tightest the memory can get is:

2
2
2
6
maybe 7
maybe 9

I would worry about getting it into 2/2/2 before playing with the other timings. You might find a sweet spot on the 6/7/9 I picked that are lower or higher than what I've picked.

[Enverex]

From the top down on your memory shots, the tightest the memory can get is:

2
2
2
6
maybe 7
maybe 9

I would worry about getting it into 2/2/2 before playing with the other timings. You might find a sweet spot on the 6/7/9 I picked that are lower or higher than what I've picked.

Well, I won't be setting them anywhere near that as I needed to know the scale to make them WORSE, to try and get a higher FSB (I can't get any better than my current timings at 220MHz). I can't even use CAS3 which is worse :(

I still think i'll go with the top boards anyway. BTW is it true that the kv8 comes with rounded idecables. If so i might save some money since i was planning on getting them anyway. I'm reading some reviews on the board now. If nothing really bad is mentioned i'll go with that one instead.

One Rounded black ATA133 cable (ATA66), a Rounded black Floppy cable, 4 SATA cables and 2 dual SATA power connectors.

[Enverex]

Right. New bench with the new timings. I can't use CAS2 or RtC 2 as they both end up crapping out eventually (I tried them before), but here are some of the minor timings changed. Strange Abit doesn't give access to the DRAM Idle Timer...

Heh, 380% Bandwidth Efficiency can't be bad :)

[EyesOnly]

Thanks for the info. As for overclocking isn't the first boards to come out always bad at overclocking. Then maybe it's a good idea to just let the boards run stock. It seems that you've gone through alot of trouble but not gained much.

[Enverex]

Thanks for the info. As for overclocking isn't the first boards to come out always bad at overclocking. Then maybe it's a good idea to just let the boards run stock. It seems that you've gone through alot of trouble but not gained much.

Er, I have gained a 10% increase in Processor and Front Side Bus speeds which has directly increased everything else. The only thing stopping me from overclocking more and getting better timings is this crappy RAM.

[Enverex]

This is directed more to Shorty and Mack due to their relative closeness, but to others in regards to the quality. What RAM would I want to look into to hit these speeds with decent timings, but not cost a completely obscene amount of money? Scan has a decent selection, but it tends to be all Corsair.... infact, that seems to be the only thing ANYONE sells. It's a tad on the "WTF, That RAM costs HOW MUCH!?" side.

2 Possible lists of items -
Scan - http://www.scan.co.uk/products/Products.ASP?CatID=22&Category=Memory
Komplett - http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/kl.asp?AvdID=1&CatID=17&GrpID=9&t=1014&l=2

I won't link to Dabs as it is too hard to navigate unless you know exactly what you want.

[Thrax]

You need to realize that the Athlon 64 platform is not recognized for stellar FSBs.

You'll have to play with system dividers, potentially bringing your RAM down and FSB up. Don't worry, the A64 loves asynch.

I don't have specifics as I don't own one (yet.)

[Shorty]

w00t! Im up.

Had to dive out and buy an MSI K8T NEO. Thankfully I didnt get hosed on price.. and im just getting it sorted.

Can't use my HPT raid card... its what was causing me so much grief.. so now Ive gotta take my disk array into work.. so I can get all the data off it.. :rolleyes:

But Im there..

[Enverex]

You need to realize that the Athlon 64 platform is not recognized for stellar FSBs.

You'll have to play with system dividers, potentially bringing your RAM down and FSB up. Don't worry, the A64 loves asynch.

I don't have specifics as I don't own one (yet.)

This board HAS no dividers of any kind. Though I believe it is the RAM doing this as the fact I can't set the timings any higher at all, which leads me to believe the RAM is completely maxed out regardless.

So, back the the Question, which RAM? (I only need 512MB) as I now have ~£90 to spend.

[lsevald]

The CPU has built in dividers for the ondie mem controller. I believe it's based on RAM SPD info, but most BIOS's have a setting that tricks the CPU to detect the RAM to be slower than it actually is. On my GA-K8N (NF3 based) mobo the setting is named "Max Memclock". If I set it to 166MHz (instead of "Auto" which gives me 200), I get Mem Clock=CPU Clock/12. So 2.0GHz/12=167MHz Mem clock, or for instance 2.4GHz/12=200MHz. The default divider is CPU Clock/10 on the 3200+ with RAM SPD programmed for PC3200 (...I believe :scratch: ).

PS! Your BIOS might say 400/333/300/266/200 instead of 200/166/150/133/100 (same thing). Try 166/333 :)

Lasse

[Enverex]

Ah, I forgot about that. Yeah, I can set it back (I was dead set in looking for deviders rather than speed settings).

Cheers Lse.

[Thrax]

Those are the dividers of which I speak.

[Enverex]

Right, at 230MHz the VIA SATA controler dies, and or freezes when it loads its ROM, but, I never noticed a problem with Mr Sil 3114, so, I turned off the VIA one in the BIOS and plugged my drive into one of the SIl sockets and...

[EyesOnly]

I stand corrected. Maybe it's worthwhile after all.

[Enverex]

Well, this board seems to have hit its limit. The processor unbelievely can go further, but the motherboard doesn't like taking the FSB any higher or things start to go a little wierd... Not bad though, 285.8MHz overclock with an extra 28MHz FSB.

[Enverex]

Can someone PLEASE answer the question regarding the RAM? I HAVE to buy new RAM for the other machine, and it needs to be done ASAP. Best on the above pages for ~£90

[Shorty]

RAM for that A64 board...

http://www5.abit.com.tw/test_report/KV8-MAX3/index.php

That's the list. Im reading Kingston HyperX is becoming the current king of memory for performance and stability. It's a tough question to ask, as right now.. there are only a few of us here with a 64 system :(

Check with the ABIT usa forums.. http://forum.abit-usa.com/ ...

[Enverex]

Yeah, but in general you know if RAM is good or not from experience on other motherboards. Abits latest BIOS also fixes compatability with many types of RAM.

Problem is, I doubt they are going to find me anything within the £90 budget, if they even know what the £ symbol stands for...

[Shorty]

http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?action=c2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=55491

Kingston HyperX 512mb 400MHz DDR Non-ECC CL2 (2-3-2-6-1) DIMM (Kit 2)

£85.77 inc VAT

:)

[Enverex]

What timings (sheer guessing of course) do you think it could do at 230? (I'm having a few wierd issues at 230, may have to go back a tad, no sure whats causing it though, doesn't seem processor related).

[Shorty]

Cas 2 (2-3-2-6-1) is it's rating. Dropping the timings, you may get a higher clock that you have now.. but thats only from reading various forums regarding memory performance... I can't figuratively guess as reports are so varied.

The VIA kit isn't locked like nForce boards, so the chipset could be sensitive to being pushed to that speed.. but I couldn't say for sure. It's hard to be 100% accurate when Ive only had mine up and running for 12 hours..

All I can say is that the Kingston is very highly rated for compatibility, stability and price. So read a few forums that are very AMD specific. AMDmb have a dedicated 64 forum.. with lots of different 64 system users. Also, the MSI site has a big 64bit forum.. both those sites are saying hyperX or Mushkin is the ram to have to achieve good clocks and performance hikes :)

Corsair seem to be very out of favour.. as do Crucial/Micron. Lots of reports of non booting systems with those sticks.

[Enverex]

Problem is though, the idea was to get to 220/230 with good timings, getting to 220 with arse timings won't be any better than the RAM I currently have....

I'll go have a look at AMDmb.

[lsevald]

I'm currently running 2x256 CorsairXMS3500 (BH5), and it won't run CL2 no matter what. CL2.5 2-5-2 works fine though (up to 230, Vddr=2.8).

Kingston KHX3200/256 and KHX3200K2/512 (BH5 based single and dual kits respectivly), seems to do best on the A64 platform right now. I'm not sure how good the CH5 based stuff is (KHX3200A/256 and KHX3200AK2/512)

[Enverex]

Well, the stuff I just ordered is "KHX3200AK2/512" so it will be interesting to see. Though in general oppinion it seems that BH-5 is better than CH-5, although this RAM I have now is BH-5 chips and it's crap. So I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

Does the KT8 support Dual Channel?

[Shorty]

The A64 only has a single channel memory controller on the die, so that's all it will ever have. It supports 2 x PC3200 DDR or 3 x PC2700 :)

[Enverex]

doh, I was hoping for a little speed increase from that too. I bet thats one of the things they are going to bring in with Socket 939.

This is wierd, My machine passes Prime95 after ages of testing, and has no problem with 3DMark and such, but at some random point in Windows, may just freeze entirely (wouldn't be heat as it is cooler doing nothing).

[Shorty]

I have the freezing as well. Its only slight. The other issue I have remaining is crappy hard drive performance... I don't have SATA and my IDE raid card was the buggy component in my build :(

If it stops freezing once you have the new memory.. it might be that. I have the same memory as you.. and had the odd freeze in Windows. Could be related to the same?

[Enverex]

I have the freezing as well. Its only slight. The other issue I have remaining is crappy hard drive performance... I don't have SATA and my IDE raid card was the buggy component in my build :(

If it stops freezing once you have the new memory.. it might be that. I have the same memory as you.. and had the odd freeze in Windows. Could be related to the same?

May be. I have actually dropped it down to lax timings at 266 and my Prime95 errors stopped even at 233Mhz FSB (I need a processor only test damnit!).

I memtested this RAM the other day and it was fine, so it may be an incompatability....

When yours freezes, is the HD light stuck on?

[Shorty]

I haven't looked at it, Il check it when/if it freezes and post back :)

Memory seems to be a very sensitive component in this platform (as Im sure you have read). I dunno, gonna order some kingston myself... see how it works :)

[Enverex]

Right, I just put everything back to stock, played stalker for about 10 mins and it locked up. I then got into Windows, tried to do something a bit later, and it locked up.

I put in my Memtest CD, the test screen appeared for a breif second and the machine restarted.........

[Shorty]

When does your new memory arrive?? Sounds like your TwinMOS isn't too happy (highly obvious huh?)

[drasnor]

The guys over at the MSI forum hate Corsair because they aren't familiar with the concept of increasing the RAM voltage. It really needs at least 2.65V to be stable. I see people over there recommending against it all the time, but never once do they ask what the voltage is at.

-drasnor :fold:

[Enverex]

ARGH. I tried to cancel the order because they have dropped the price of faster shipping, but noooo, it's past the point where I can cancell it. Due Wednesday. Not Happy at all. This is why everyone is against eBuyer, they're slow and expensive :(

[Shorty]

eBuyer suck.. but they are they cheap. It's a chicken and egg situation but Wednesday.. arghh..

[Enverex]

If my machine doesn't work with the new RAM in then I think I will just cry, as I have no other ideas, other than a New PSU (Using an Enermax 431W atm) which I can't afford to buy (this RAM is for my so my parents can have my old mobo and CPU to swap out their old Slot A Athlon). I don't think I could talk them into a new PSU, and my only other 400w got killed by that ****ty Gigabyte motherboard.

[Shorty]

We already know the RAM requirements are very specific with the platform, I really do think that that is what the issue is :)

If your voltages look clean in your BIOS.. then I sounds more like DDR to me.

[Enverex]

Yeah, at worse the Voltages are ~0.03v below, normally above the specified rail though. At least RAM isn't a hassle to change over at all. Still, FIVE AND A HALF DAYS!!! GAAAAAHH!! If I didn't have my laptop I think I would go insane.

God damn Twinmoss RAM, always hated it, always....

[Shorty]

I've had a personal 5 days of A64 hell, I hear ya mate, I hear ya.

CPU didn't show up, then the first board was a dud, second board wouldn't post. Then after two days.. discovered RAID controller PCI card wasn't compatible... then had to lose 512mb of my DDR ... fun fun fun.

[Enverex]

I've had a personal 5 days of A64 hell, I hear ya mate, I hear ya.

CPU didn't show up, then the first board was a dud, second board wouldn't post. Then after two days.. discovered RAID controller PCI card wasn't compatible... then had to lose 512mb of my DDR ... fun fun fun.

I want to lie, shipwrecked in comotose, drinking fresh, mango juice. Gold-fish sholes, nibling at my toes, fuuun fuuun fuuuun, in the suuun suuuun suuun.........

[EyesOnly]

Then this must be your week then shorty. :D So kingston is the way to go. Well so far i've only been able to find shops that sell pc3000 and pc3500. Which should i choose. Is it worth going for the bigger since i'll prolly just run things stock.

[Enverex]

Are you sure it was PC3000? Not PC3200? As I have never seen PC3000 anywhere....
If you are going stock then get PC3200 with the lowest timings you can find (2-2-2-5-CMD1 is pretty much it).

[EyesOnly]

http://www.kingston.com/hyperx/thelines/default.asp?type=khxu

It does exist but i think i'll go with the 3500 just in case i do feel like up the clock sometime.

[Enverex]

What silly numbers. But yeah, I would say PC3200 is the lowest. PC3000 probably came out in the very early days of PC3200 when maufactuers were trying to get the fastest RAM possible but some couldn't cut it.

[EyesOnly]

Here's a page with test reports from abit about the kv8.

http://www.abit.com.tw/test_report/KV8-MAX3/index.php

[Enverex]

Here's a page with test reports from abit about the kv8.

http://www.abit.com.tw/test_report/KV8-MAX3/index.php

Shorty has already linked to that.

[EyesOnly]

Crap i must have missed it.

[Enverex]

Hmm... Not sure the serial number of mine, I'll have to check later as all my invoice says is "TwinMOS PC3200 DDR-DIMM 512MB w/Winbond Memory 184-P (for DDR-PC400MHz)".

[Enverex]

Yeah, it can't be RAM related. As Prime95 ran fine for 3 hours before I went to bed, and F@H ran all night without errors, but about 15 minutes after me using the machine, nothing moved but the mouse, and then complete lock-up (with the HD light stuck on).

[EyesOnly]

Then you have big problems. Hope you figure it out. Stupid question but have you updated everything, drivers, windows, bios.

[TheLostSwede]

Enverex, is there a setting in bios where you can set it to DDR 333 but still push the fsb up?

[Shorty]

Ive isolated when I get my freezes... if this helps...

When Im accessing one of my hard drives. That's the only time and only my slave WD 120gb JB drive.

When just working on things.. and so on.. the PC goes like crap off a shovel.

[Enverex]

Enverex, is there a setting in bios where you can set it to DDR 333 but still push the fsb up?

Doesn't matter what I set the RAM to. I even set it to DDR200 before (effective) but it would still lock up randomly. Me and Shorty came to the conclusion that the RAM isn't compatible (read back through the thread) as he has the same problem and the same RAM. Thus, we have both ordered some Kingston HyperX instead.

Other news, not problem related: The boards max seems to be 233 as if I go any higher the screen turns to garbage when the framebuffer is initiated. The processor is perfectly stable at 2.3GHz @ 1.65v, but needs more voltage to go higher (2.32Ghz @ 1.65v errors out in Prime95), which I don't want to do as then it starts topping out just over 63'c. So, better cooling is needed for higher speeds. Another thing is that I don't seem to be able to use AGP 8x at anything other than default speeds, but that isn't really an issue as it does next to nothing.

I have a feeling, contrary to popular belief, this is actually upping the PCI and AGP bus too, not just the CPU <<>> MEM controller, so that may explain the graphics manglage at 234MHz+ FSB.

That makes me think.... F@H only uses about 11MB, and Prime was on Processor only test mode using 8MB of RAM, which may explain why those don't cause the computer to crash, which gives more value to the "It's the RAM" argument.

[Enverex]

Ive isolated when I get my freezes... if this helps...

When Im accessing one of my hard drives. That's the only time and only my slave WD 120gb JB drive.

When just working on things.. and so on.. the PC goes like crap off a shovel.

Thats also interesting as mine seems to lock up when I try to do lots of things at the same time, i.e. when my PC is still booting, if I tell it to open Trillian, Firebird and other things at the same time. It also seems to make sense with the crash I had in Far Cry when it was loading, I tried to move which makes it load more... basically, whenever the hard-drive was hammered...

Though, that still could be RAM related due to Read/Write caching...

[Enverex]

One bad thing about the motherboard though. OTES is noisy and pointless. It's noisy because its a fast small fan, and it's pointless as everyone nowerdays have an 80mm fan on the bottom of their PSU which does a better job, which OTES just gets in the way of, best thing to do it set the low speed to 60'c and the high to 70'c so it never turns on.

[Shorty]

I definitely feel its related to memory. Be interesting to see what happens with the hyperX memory :)

I have my hopes :)

[Enverex]

I definitely feel its related to memory. Be interesting to see what happens with the hyperX memory :)

I have my hopes :)

Have you ordered yours yet? and if so, when does it arrive?

[Shorty]

Wednesday :rolleyes:

[Enverex]

Right, yes, it's hard-disk access. I just had 12 pictures from Gunship 2000 I had taken, still open in PSP, saved a crop mask, and the instant I hit "Save" it locked up. ARGH. Got to take them all again now (taking them so I can add the game to my gallery for people).

[EyesOnly]

So you both will have it by wednesday. What a coinsidence. :)

[lsevald]

I'm getting the same lockups when attempting to run more than 1.8Vcore and 2.4GHz+. No errors in prime95...runs fine for anything from 30min to 2hours, then decides to lockup out of the blue. I'm going to try a few things :aol:

[Enverex]

That sounds worryingly like the exact same problem.... What processor do you have btw?

[lsevald]

Same as you, 3200+ :)

I have had this issue with several SocketA mobos in the past. Disabling ACPI or "CPU Disconnect" usually fixed the problem on those boards. It's a power saving feature that shuts down most of the CPU when idle. The extremely low idle temps I'm getting indicates that a similar feature is active on my A64 setup. DeltaT from idle to full is ~15-20°C on water.

I don't have the means to check this out (would need an ocsilloscope), but my theory is that the CPU powersupply (MOSFET's, Coils and caps) is unable to maintain a noiseless Vcore feed when the load spikes from say 20% to 100% power drain :buck:

[Enverex]

Hmm.... seems that this board can't actually go any higher than 228 due to the unlocked PCI/AGP bus (a while in 3D the GFX card just shuts off) :( .

I may be giving the proc too much voltage. I'll see how it copes with lower levels... EDIT: Ah, 1.8, not 1.58. Nevermind.

EDIT: Nope, seems the nForce3 would have been a better choice as 3D doesn't work above 228 and 2D doesn't work above 233. Even though via may have a lead normally, I'm sure the increased speeds would have more than made up for it :shakehead

[lsevald]

ATi 9700 certainly dislikes high AGP. Have you tried to disable Fast Writes and Sideband Addressing? That might help some...

Yes, the NF3 has locked AGP but unfortunatly not PCI :(

Yes, I'm just testing high Vcore. If I only found a way to disable CPU Disconnect on this board. Do you have that setting on your board?

[Enverex]

Tried turning off Fastwrites, has no effect on anything. As I said about AGP 8x before, doesn't work at anything other than default, I have it set to AGP 2x the rest of the time. I cant find anyway of dissabling SBA, but that wont be much help at other times when I cant dissable it as I wont be able to get into the OS or whatever. Hmm, may be interesting to try my Voodoo 3 (or GF4 MX) and see if I can boot into Windows above 234 (just out of interest)...

No CPU disconnect type options on the BIOS :(

[keto]

Might want to have a look on the xs forums, they've had quite a few A64's cooked due to overclocking. It *seems* to be the memory controller on the cpu that fails, sometimes with and sometimes without added vdimm or chipset voltage. Careful.

[Enverex]

Xs?

[Thrax]

xtremesystems.

[Enverex]

Yeah, I worked that out about 3 seconds afterwords, the hard part was working out the URL. Seems they seem to have destroyed all their chips by trying to push obscene voltages through them beyond what these will let you do normally, so I don't think this is a problem.

Well, regarding the "Screwed Graphics at 233+" well, here I am at 234 curtesy of Mr Voodoo 3. So yeah, unbelieveably, my entire system overclocking is being held up because of my Radeon 9700. Way to go ATi :shakehead

[Enverex]

The board seems fine at 240MHz FSB too, but I don't want to keep it that high as the voltage I have to use causes the processor to be obscenely hot as this stock cooling doesn't seem to be able to cope. A decent compromise seems to be 235Mhz as that only needs about 1.72v, still, I don't know why I am bothering as the damn Radeon won't go past 228. ATi need to look back at some of the older technology I think :( (and it's going to be a long time until I get a new GFX card. On the other hand, I could just use my Voodoo 3 until I actually want to game again as I don't play games often...)

[Enverex]

Huzzah!

Dear Mr Hodgetts,

Thank you for contacting our Support Team.

We have upgraded your order to a priority service and you should receive it by Tuesday at the latest. You are able to track delivery of your order via the orders section.

Regards,

Customer Support

[Shorty]

:eek: How the....?

I want mine too :bawling:

So you are using the VooDoo3??! Well if you aren't gaming, it doesn't matter about the 9700 pro. That's a nice overclock, I haven't even started overclocking mine yet.. Im just glad it's stable...

[Enverex]

Mine locked up about 15mins ago, but I thought "lets leave it for a minute" and about 20 seconds later it unfroze..... It may have been a fluke, but i'll wait next time too, see what happens.

With eBuyer, I just sent them a ticket stating that I "urgently need the shipping upgraded"..... so they did :) (Didn't know if it would work or not).

[Shorty]

Mine is getting wierder though... it hasn't locked up since last night. All that happens is I get one of my two hard drives... just takes an age to access.. which freezes up the machine for a few seconds... Im starting to wonder if its the drive.. and not the rig...

Im gonna nudge ebuyer :vimp: .. worth a try..

[EyesOnly]

This might be a stupid question but based on the alarming amount of problems you guys have had. Is that board stable at stock speeds or is it always unstable. I haven't been able to figure that out yet.

[Enverex]

Mine is getting wierder though... it hasn't locked up since last night. All that happens is I get one of my two hard drives... just takes an age to access.. which freezes up the machine for a few seconds... Im starting to wonder if its the drive.. and not the rig...

Im gonna nudge ebuyer :vimp: .. worth a try..

But that is what is happening to mine, it goes to access the drive.... and everything just freezes....... and then a few seconds later, unfreezes and the drive actually does what it was supposed to do...
Though at one point when it froze, a few seconds later Windows blue-screened with "MACHINE_CHECK_EXCEPTION"...

EyesOnly: Mine is unstable at stock and overclocked, so I am keeping it overclocked (no point having it go stock and crashing when I can have it go faster and crashing :zombie: )

[Enverex]

Interesting -

Error Message: STOP: 0x0000009C (0x00000004, 0x00000000, 0xb2000000, 0x00020151) ...
View products that this article applies to.
This article was previously published under Q329284
For a Microsoft Windows NT 4.0 and Microsoft Windows 2000 version of this article, see 162363.
SYMPTOMS
Your computer may generate the following Stop error message on a blue screen:
STOP: 0x0000009C (0x00000004, 0x00000000, 0xb2000000, 0x00020151)
"MACHINE_CHECK_EXCEPTION"
Note that the four parameters that are inside the parentheses may vary.
CAUSE
This behavior occurs because your computer processor detected an unrecoverable hardware error and reported it to Windows XP. To do so, it used the Machine Check Exception (MCE) feature of Pentium processors or the Machine Check Architecture (MCA) feature of some Pentium Pro processors. The error may be a result of any of the following:

* System bus errors.
* Memory errors that may include parity or Error Correction Code (ECC) problems.
* Cache errors in the processor or hardware.
* Translation Lookaside Buffers (TLB) errors in the processor.
* Other CPU-vendor specific detected hardware problems.
* Vendor-specific detected hardware problems.

STATUS
This behavior is by design.
MORE INFORMATION
A machine check exception occurs when Windows XP and your hardware platform cannot recover from some type of hardware error so that the system can continue to run successfully and reliably. More specific diagnosis of machine check exceptions is difficult and there is no general solution. Contact your hardware manufacturer or a computer hardware technician for help with troubleshooting this issue.

Machine check exceptions are frequently caused by one of the following conditions:

* Running the processor or mainboard beyond its specifications. For example, overclocking the processor or bus. Microsoft recommends that you run your hardware at the manufacturer-rated speeds.
* Noisy power, overstressed power strips, outmatched power supplies and failing power supplies can destabilize your computer. Make sure that you have a stable, reliable power supply to your computer.
* Extreme thermal conditions caused by the failure of cooling devices such as fans. Make sure your cooling devices are all working.
* Damaged memory, or memory that is not the correct type for your computer. If you recently changed the memory configuration, revert to the previous configuration to determine what is wrong. Make sure that you are using the correct memory for your computer.

NOTE: Your hardware may support additional error logging features that capture the machine check exception and suggest a more specific solution.

The Pentium and Pentium Pro processors provide a mechanism to detect and to report hardware-related problems such as memory parity errors and cache errors. To signal a hardware error, the processor signals the detection of a machine check error by generating a machine check exception (Interrupt 18). Windows XP reports that the error occurred and displays parameters that you can use to decode the exception. Contact your hardware vendor or processor manufacturer for information about the Machine Check Architecture or see the Intel Pentium Pro Family Developer's Manual - Volume 3: Operating System Writer's Manual.

[Enverex]

Shorty: What is the P/N of your RAM? I take it the P/N should be almost the same if they are actually the same type right?

Mine is - M2S9J16AGAWB9F0811A-T

[Shorty]

Mine is P/N M2G9J16AGATT9F081AA4T

:)

[Enverex]

Hmm.... completely different. Makes me think it isn't the RAM :(

I am getting stupidly high temps with this damn processor. I have just redone the AS and reseated it, but it is still really high. What is yours at?

EDIT: 2365Mhz @ 1.75v = 45'c idle, 73'c Load.
The AS is on, it has perfect contact, the processor isn't giving any errors and the heatsink is only warm (copper on the bottom is hot, stupidly hot though). Which makes me think the Diodes temperature reading may be wrong...

[Shorty]

The diode could well be wrong.. Im at 41c.. heatsink is only warm. Hammer processors do run cold. I benched an opteron system for 4 hours straight.. and the sink was only lukewarm.

[Enverex]

More temperature measurements:

At default voltage and speed:

39'c in the BIOS
31'c in Windows (still dropping, must be the HLT instruction)
45'c under load (with SSE(2) running)


The processor can heat up so fast, I mean before, it could heat up 10'c in 1 second or less (went from 44'c to 55'c in the 1 second interval). So, I have a feeling our temps are going to be higher than everyone elses as it seems that the thermal diode is infact in the center of the processor, so unless we cool the entire thing down with liquid nitrogen, it is always going to report high.

So basically, rule of thumb will be that it's only too hot when it starts failing :)

Not sure whether its the power supplies or the motherboards fault, but the RAM is fluctuating 0.03, the HT is 0.03 over voltage and the processor is 0.05 higher than what it should be. Kind of makes everything confusing.

[EyesOnly]

Could it be the board itself that's broken and not the ram. In 2-3 days when you'll both have your new ram we'll hopefully find out. It's hard to believe that this thread is now up to 7 pages and most of it has been about bad things. Since i'm considering going 64bit i've given this thread a lot of attention as perhaps many others who wants to go that way also has.

If this continious then it's defently best to wait until more boards have been relised before switching.

[Shorty]

But we have two different boards ;)

Enverex has the ABIT and I have the MSI :)

The common part here is the TwinMOS memory. Yes, we have two different part numbers.. but they are on the same PCB.. this would lead me to find a more likely fault with the ram rather than board. The hammer family have the onboard memory controller as you know, so it's fussy about what memory it uses :wtf:

Truth, I dont think either Enverex or myself would put anyone off going Athlon 64. It's a tremendously powerful platform, yes it has a few bugs.. but overall.. considering it's infancy, it's awesome.

[Enverex]

I am back at 228Mhz now so I can put my Radeon back in (the voltages needed for the processor above 230 were too high for the crappy stock cooling, especially as it doesn't seem to make good contact with the CPU). And it all seems fine at the moment. Someone recommended putting the HT link down to 600Mhz, but last time I did that an alarm went off and the machine wouldn't turn back on :)

[Shorty]

Enverex... I was wondering whether we should change/edit the title of this thread... and sticky.. as a sorta pseudo "Athlon 64 discussion" thread. 8 pages and counting ;D

[Enverex]

I think the title "Enverex and Shorty's discussion where Enverex talks to himself...... alot...." suits better :rolleyes2

[Shorty]

Done :D

[EyesOnly]

I think the title "Enverex and Shorty's discussion where Enverex talks to himself...... alot...." suits better

Agree. :D

I know you 2 have different boards that what worried me. One of you might have gotten a bad board but not 2 and from different brands. AS for sticking this thread that might be a good idea. Yuu seenm to be the first ones to go 64bit other then citrix so newbies would prolly want to know what you now know. For instance which brand of ram to choose or not.

Edit
You beat me to it shorty. Oh well. :tongue:

[Enverex]

Heh, guess what arrived this morning :)

It arrived in a box big enough to fit 4 motherboard boxes. I mean, wtf were eBuyer thinking? lol.

About to fit it....

[Shorty]

This morning!? :eek:

Bloody hell Ebuyer.. someone must have put a rocket up their arse! ;D

Let us know! Mine didn't appear :(

[Shorty]

I want to lie, shipwrecked in comotose, drinking fresh, mango juice. Gold-fish sholes, nibling at my toes, fuuun fuuun fuuuun, in the suuun suuuun suuun.........

Its cold outside, There's no kind of atmosphere, I'm all alone, More or less. Let me fly, Far away from here, Fun, fun, fun, In the sun, sun, sun. :cool:

[Enverex]

Well, the RAM........ is ****. It won't even do 228 at laxest timings...... or even 220...... so consequently it is stuck at 190 (DDR333 with 228FSB) at max timings. Sandra still gives less than 3000 :( .

No lock-ups (other than RAM related (i.e. no HD light on)) yet, but i'll let you know if it happens.

[Straight_Man]

Mine is getting wierder though... it hasn't locked up since last night. All that happens is I get one of my two hard drives... just takes an age to access.. which freezes up the machine for a few seconds... Im starting to wonder if its the drive.. and not the rig...

Im gonna nudge ebuyer :vimp: .. worth a try..

Drive, maybe, if it has a high seek and a small integral I\O buffer(ever seen a saturated hard drive buffer??), especially if IDE actual rates are running fast or the bridge is hot also(could be bridge, separate IDE controller, saturated HD buffer).... Since PCI and AGP fixation can stabilize IDE sometimes(how well this will work depends on bridging bus pipe and subbus off that bridge timing strategy ) you might try that. Ditto for video issue.

John.

[Shorty]

Well, the RAM........ is ****. It won't even do 228 at laxest timings...... or even 220...... so consequently it is stuck at 190 (DDR333 with 228FSB) at max timings. Sandra still gives less than 3000 :( .

No lock-ups (other than RAM related (i.e. no HD light on)) yet, but i'll let you know if it happens.

Im damn surprised by that. VERY surprised by that. What dimm voltage?

[kanezfan]

this kind of reminds me of the first via chipset i owned. it was a PIII mobo. it sucked. it would randomly reboot, or freeze, most frustratingly during CD burning sometimes ;[ , it would all around weirdness. I exchanged it for an abit SA6, which had an intel chipset and it stopped. I don't trust VIA's first time chipset efforts.

[Omega65]

Leading Edge is Bleeding Edge!

The 2nd Gen Chipsets and Mobos will be better (KT133A, KT266A, NForce2....)

[Enverex]

Shorty: Any voltage. Even tried up to 3.2v. Though no doubts yours will probably work fine up to 600Mhz FSB at best timings :(

[Shorty]

I dont know.. haven't had the time to even think about overclocking it. Won't be trying until Thursday night. Il let you know. If it clocks like a mofo, then we have a clue its board related.

[Enverex]

I dont know.. haven't had the time to even think about overclocking it. Won't be trying until Thursday night. Il let you know. If it clocks like a mofo, then we have a clue its board related.

To be honest, the Twinmos is MUCH better RAM. It reaches 220, and it can do 200 at max timings (cept for CMD) where as this Kingston barely reaches it's rated speed and has NO leway at all. Basically it's crap.

1 stick of 512MB Twinmos with BH-5 = £50
2 sticks of 256MB Kingston Hyper-X = £85

What a waste of money. Either way, I needed new RAM for the other PC so something had to be bought.

No lockups so far.

[Shorty]

Considering all in, Im gonna wait and see. I had to buy DDR for the dualie anyway, so like you.. I know I had to get some.

If it does perform, I swap it with you, makes no odds to me. I dont have much time on my hands to sit and overclock for 4-5 hours at a time.. heh

[Enverex]

Doesn't matter. 2 seconds after making that post, the machine froze. I'm out of ideas to be honest. I now have a rig that I just spent £310 that just doesn't work. Even if I could return the motherboard, firstly they may say nothing is wrong with it and even if they did, what's to say another motherboard is going to work? and second, I am stuck with the processor anyway, which I wouldn't be able to return as I don't have a reason which I think they would find valid.

[Enverex]

I am going to try a re-install. As I spent quite a while in Knoppix and didn't have any freezes or anything...

[Enverex]

Shorty: This may be worth looking at - http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_871_9706,00.html

[drasnor]

Shorty: This may be worth looking at - http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_871_9706,00.html

I'm guessing those don't work with AMD Opteron processors.

-drasnor :fold:

[Shorty]

What was the result of the reinstall ??? :)

[Enverex]

I haven't reinstalled yet. I am just trying with this new AMD driver from.... er.... AMD.
Strange thing is, these freezes .... ARGGHH.... YOUR BASTARDS ARE MOCKING ME. TO HELL WITH YOU ALL.

I was saying "the freezes are getting more and more rare" up till the point IT FROZE WHILE I WAS WRITING THE WORD "FREEZE"! AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH.

Reinstalling....

(Shorty: Does yours still freeze up? If so try running knoppix for as long as you can stand and see if it still does it)
The ABIT forum isn't being useful at all.

[Shorty]

I think this is gonna really bug you.. but...

I have a drive that is poorly. I dumped all the data off it last nite and since then.. Ive not had a freeze.

[Enverex]

Hmm..... it may be worth seeing if I can return the motherboard and get a different one as people seem to be having issues running it any higher than 200Mhz FSB (even though it defaults to 204).

[Shorty]

If you aren't the only one with this problem with the ABIT board... perhaps it is worth returning it. As much as you may hate them, Im finding the MSI now as stable as a rock... but I haven't had time to try overclocking it.. so dont quote me on it's ability to do so :)

[Enverex]

Problem is, most places over here give you a replacement board, not your money back, so what am I going to do? I'll just end up with a board that wont even run at stock.

[Shorty]

Won't it stay stable @ stock?

Ok, do a test. Contact Komplett (was it Komplett you got it from?) and RMA it. Il loan you my spare Socket 754 board. Try it for a few days and let me know?

[Enverex]

Nope, not stable at stock, it still just locks up randomly at some point or another.

Already requested a refund on the motherboard stating that a replacement would be useless as it seems to be an issue with that specific board (obviously in a lot more words).

[Enverex]

Il loan you my spare Socket 754 board. Try it for a few days and let me know?

Only if it as SATA otherwise I won't be able to use it....

[Shorty]

Only if it as SATA otherwise I won't be able to use it....
It does :)

http://www.biostar.com.tw/products/mainboard/board.php3?name=K8NHA%20Pro

[Enverex]

(Please keep the subject when replying to this mail. This is NOT an RMA no. Das ist
keine RMA-Nr. Sollten Sie diese Mail beantworten, behalten Sie bitte den Inhalt
bei.)

Dear Sir,

Let me know the order number and I'll see if I can arrange this.

Best regards
Komplett

Quite fast. Lets just hope they accept it.... though, what am I going to wrap the parts back up in? (as the old bags have to be torn open).

Any idea when the new sets of Motherboards are coming out?

[Straight_Man]

Not to intrude, but I do this with a defective RMA:

1. Inner wrap is any antistat bag I can properly fit the motherboard in-- then shipping tape seals your antistat envelope.

2. Layer on that is 2 thick of small bubbles bubblewrap or one of large bubbles bubblewrap. If no bubblewrap, twice the thickness of styrofoam or closed cell foam peanuts. Foam sheets top and bottom, can be used to make motherboard not settle down to bottom of package also, and antistat wrap will protect from static if taped well. Tape tear or cut (I slice open antistat envelopes and save them, if cannot tear through the labels they come with) with packaging tape if no other antistat bag, and tape so edges overlap 4-5 mm minimum if can.

3. Whole thing then gets a layer of peanuts all around at least 12 mm thick, preferably 25 mm.

4. I have been known to cut boxes that are too tall down in height, make flaps bigger or bend to square and then cut flaps to size.

5. Forget to mention this is a defective, insure for full value plus shipping cost to and from-- full net invoice plus shipping once again (once more,for any US lurkers) over. Signature delivery required. If they lose it you get full recompense for your (easily) provable costs.

Possible bad batch, possible bad power circuits. MSI actually does decent QC, not the best OCers but is overall typically decent.

John.

[TheLostSwede]

I have decided to wait until the next generation because of the trouble everybody is having. I actually ordered me another NF2 board. It's DFI time.

[Enverex]

Dear Sir,

I have created and approved your RMA request for you.

The request has been given RMA no: 700003739

Please mark this clearly on the inside and outside of the package. Then please
return to the address below:

Komplett.co.uk
c/o PFWW
Siskin Parkway West
Middlemarch Business Park
Coventry, CV98 9XX

Instructions.

1) Attach a copy of the RMA confirmation to the item.
2) Ensure that you pack the item securely!
3) Mark the parcel clearly with all RMA numbers. Shipments sent without RMA
numbers will be subject to a delay while they are investigated.
4) Send the parcel to the address above. Due to the nature of these goods,
we recommend the use of Royal Mail-Recorded Signed for service.
5) Please note that parcels are sent to us at your expense.
Returning the parcel back to you will be at Komplett's.
6) When we receive the parcel we test the item, repair it if possible or exchange it.
7) Computer parts are sensitive to electrostatic discharges please
place in "Antistatic" bags in order to keep the warranty valid!

Hope this helps.


Best regards
Komplett

If they give me a refund, I think I will wait for the gen 2 boards. If they return it back to me, I will end up being out of pocket and having lost time, and same goes for if they send me a new one.

[drasnor]

I'm not having any trouble with my dual Opteron rig. The only crap it gave me was from my now-RMA'ed All in Wonder 9700 Pro. Third time I've had to send that card back to ATI, so I'm not real impressed with their QC.

-drasnor :fold:

[Enverex]

Opterons are very different :-/

[drasnor]

Opterons are very different :-/

Guess so.

-drasnor :fold:

[TheLostSwede]

Having said that, i might order from the states and have my aunt send it to me. A mainboard/3200+ A64 is like half price compared to here (at least the combo i MIGHT want) since the dollar is low compared to local money. I'm piling up on BH5 in the mean time. 10 sticks on it's way. Yay!

[Enverex]

yay

[Jimborae]

...... I'm piling up on BH5 in the mean time. 10 sticks on it's way. Yay!

:topic:
Does that mean you dont need mine anymore???

[TheLostSwede]

:topic:
Does that mean you dont need mine anymore???

Off course i do :D

I'm just waiting for your word m8 :)

[GnomeWizardd]

ENVEREX you are going to hate me but last night i built a 3400+ A64 rig with that exact board and it went together smoooooooooooooth! not a hichup!

[Enverex]

Or so you think. It doesn't lock up when purely under CPU load, you actually have to be using the machine and it can happen even after a few hours (of constant use).

[GnomeWizardd]

yea the abit is rock solid been folding for 2 days. Now my Asus K8V is going back to newegg soon as my MSI K8T Neo arrives monday already have a rma number and everything. Most unstable POS ive ever owned

[croc_]

Someone gunna try the damn ECS or am I going to have to build an A64 system? (making excuses to buy A64)

[GnomeWizardd]

ecs my @$$

[croc_]

ecs my @$$

Like I said, if you are not overclocking ....
http://www.ocworkbench.com/2004/ecs/755a2/755a2-8.htm

[Al_Capown]

ecs my @$$
That's gotta be another s-m byte :celebrate

[Enverex]

Not really, if you are building a budget stock system, ECS are normally the way to go.

[EyesOnly]

Updates please. Enverex, Shorty, Gnome how are your rigs doing.

[Shorty]

My MSI NEO based rig is stable as a rock, very very fast and I could not be happier. Solved the freezing, it was a hard drive on its way out. That's gonna be RMA-ed next week... going SATA anyway :vimp:

[Enverex]

Updates please. Enverex, Shorty, Gnome how are your rigs doing.

The case is sat on its side, and the Athlon64 is sat in its case on top of my MM systems sub.

[EyesOnly]

Nice to hear that shorty. Looks like we've finaly found a stable combination. Ehm enverex does that mean that your rig is turned of and not working well. Sorry to hear that if tha's the case.

[Enverex]

Well I don't think turning it on without a motherboard and CPU present would be very useful.

[EyesOnly]

So you're switching cpu too. I thought you were only to switch mobo. So is it socket A for you now or what.