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Thrax
Cad
Thrax
23,417 Posts
Nerds: BuddyJ, myself and Drasnor have been talking about this on IRC & Twitter for a couple hours now. Love MW? Get in on the action and join IRC! http://icrontic.com/irc
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mertesn
Icrontic Duke of Haxor
mertesn
353 Posts

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Nerds: BuddyJ, myself and Drasnor have been talking about this on IRC & Twitter for a couple hours now. Love MW? Get in on the action and join IRC! http://icrontic.com/irc
Can't do that in the office...
MAGIC
NFNF
MAGIC
2,080 Posts
Can't do that in the office...
your not trying hard enough.
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RyderOCZ
OCZ Guru / IC Groupie
RyderOCZ
2,568 Posts

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Can't do that in the office...
They block Mibbit?
kryyst
CTRL+ALT+DEL
kryyst
5,166 Posts
Screw Mechwarrior (yeah I said it) I want Smith and Tinker to do something with Crimson Skies.

But you know, this is still good news. Oh and while they are at it lets put a real Shadowrun game out there. Not that piece of crap FPS.
__________________ Accidental Survivors - The only real source for modern RPG gaming.
TiberiusLazarus
I Miss Keebler
TiberiusLazarus
769 Posts

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They block Mibbit?
My office blocks mibbit...

Also:

HOLY HELL NEW MECH GAME FOR PC! I don't know how long I've been wishing for one.
__________________
mertesn
Icrontic Duke of Haxor
mertesn
353 Posts

» Subscriber

They block Mibbit?
No, but I like my job. Company policy says no IRC (and various other chat programs), so it's reserved for telecommuting days.
_k_
deep in the bush
_k_
1,239 Posts

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I am going to rock this game like a hurricane!
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Gargoyle
We can't stop here...
Gargoyle
4,685 Posts

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Finally, time to unpack the Sidewinder joystick.

I'd love to join you nerds in IRC, but frankly, I don't know how you do it and stay productive. I'll just tell you this: fear my LBX frump.
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Thrax
Cad
Thrax
23,417 Posts
I see your LBX and raise you a Jenner with LRM-20s and a Beagle Active Probe.
_k_
deep in the bush
_k_
1,239 Posts

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PPC, Gauss Rifle, and LRM's. Reserve the ER battery for snipping off legs.
Grimnoc
I don't need no stinkin avatar
Grimnoc
283 Posts
Holy PPC's, Batman! This is the best news since AvP 3 was officially announced. Unfortunately, it's also a reboot being made for the Xbox as well as the PC. In other words, say bye to the sim you knew and loved.

Still, should be fun.
Thrax
Cad
Thrax
23,417 Posts
Grim: It's being made by a studio run by the founder of FASA. FASA. You know, the company that invented MechWarrior and BattleTech.
Buddy J
Dept. of Propaganda
Buddy J
7,440 Posts
Reading the interview gave me the opposite impression. They give the impression that they're trying to build on the sim aspect more, allowing a more-realistic and non-linear gameplay style that'll require more strategy and co-work.
__________________
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Gargoyle
We can't stop here...
Gargoyle
4,685 Posts

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I see your LBX and raise you a Jenner with LRM-20s and a Beagle Active Probe.
Well played, sir.

PPC, Gauss Rifle, and LRM's. Reserve the ER battery for snipping off legs.
Effective, sure. But what's the fun in blowing up your opponent if you can barely see them on the horizon?

Hopefully the topography will be varied enough for me to continue pursuing my ninja shotgun approach.
Grimnoc
I don't need no stinkin avatar
Grimnoc
283 Posts
I realize who it's being made by, and for that I'm glad.

But, it is still cross-platform and while that is not neccessarily always a bad thing, in this situation it does mean that they will have to develop a game that works well on both formats and a gamepad simply cannot do a full-fledged sim.

*What's this about an interview? I must have missed it.
Grimnoc
I don't need no stinkin avatar
Grimnoc
283 Posts
On top of that whenever the word 'reboot' is thrown around it almost always means that there are at least some significant changes to the original project, whether it be videogames, books, movies, etc.
Grimnoc
I don't need no stinkin avatar
Grimnoc
283 Posts
Nvm, just found that interview....reading....
_k_
deep in the bush
_k_
1,239 Posts

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Garg, I run everything with jumpjets so I can pop into sight and cut loose. Nothing like an 100 ton mech flying through the air launching rockets and shooting lasers into the wild blue yonder.
Koreish
Agent of Chaos
Koreish
874 Posts
I vaguely remember a friend of mine playing this a while back, looked pretty spiffy. Never played it myself though.
__________________ The man who never has anything important to say.
Grimnoc
I don't need no stinkin avatar
Grimnoc
283 Posts
Hmmmm, I just read the interview and some of the things they are aiming for sound pretty tantalizing (co-op, putting on emphasis on the value of mechs, more class emphasis, etc), but I'm still skeptical of how much sim they are going to build into it.

It does look like it'll be a blast to play though! (hopefully )
Thrax
Cad
Thrax
23,417 Posts
Given the nature of analog sticks, the controller is actually more suited to play MechWarrior than your average PC.
Grimnoc
I don't need no stinkin avatar
Grimnoc
283 Posts
Ha, I will agree with you there (although in most circumstances I much, much, much prefer mouse and keyboard to console controllers), excepting a joystick which I consider to be the best option for MechWarrior-ing around.
Gargoyle
We can't stop here...
Gargoyle
4,685 Posts

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My only wish is that I had bought a joystick with yaw axis rotation. A friend of mine had a fancy Sidewinder that had it (Ghaleon4 on the forums), but I kept accidentally engaging it while playing Freespace. That would be perfect for torso rotation in Mechwarrior, though.

I should have put in tickets for the joystick giveaway at the LAN
UPSLynx
The Dean of Computer Graphics
UPSLynx
2,141 Posts
the analog sticks are great for controlling a mech, true, but lack of enough buttons kills potential. Do you remember the sheer number of commands in mech Warrior 3? It was like playing a flight sim, the entire keyboard was used.

They have to simply gameplay controls to fit on the small number of inputs on a gamepad.

That alone rules out the 'full sim' potential.
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primesuspect
The Icrontic Guy
primesuspect
27,803 Posts
So yeah, the Thrustmaster T16000.M suddenly just got a lot more valuable
__________________ "I offer my genius to the world, all I ask is you pick up my expenses"
Grimnoc
I don't need no stinkin avatar
Grimnoc
283 Posts
Playing MechWarrior with a joystick that had the twist function was a joy. Pure, unadulterated joy.
Thrax
Cad
Thrax
23,417 Posts
the analog sticks are great for controlling a mech, true, but lack of enough buttons kills potential. Do you remember the sheer number of commands in mech Warrior 3? It was like playing a flight sim, the entire keyboard was used.

They have to simply gameplay controls to fit on the small number of inputs on a gamepad.

That alone rules out the 'full sim' potential.
Honestly, let's look at what it would take to pilot a mech on a controller:

Leg turn (analog stick)
Torso turn (Analog stick)
Torso pitch (Analog stick)
Cycle sensor
Activate sensor
Cycle weapon
Group weapon
Fire weapon
Jumpjets
Change target

The 360 has enough buttons to accommodate all of these functions, and there's not much else a mech requires. Maybe change camera?

Maps and tactical information can be accessed from a pause menu.
MAGIC
NFNF
MAGIC
2,080 Posts
So yeah, the Thrustmaster T16000.M suddenly just got a lot more valuable
Yeah, ive never played any mech games but this looks cool.
Gargoyle
We can't stop here...
Gargoyle
4,685 Posts

» Subscriber

That alone rules out the 'full sim' potential.
What are the "sim" elements people are talking about? I'm guessing the sim elements were in #3, but I only played 2 & 4.
Grimnoc
I don't need no stinkin avatar
Grimnoc
283 Posts
===========================================================================
MECHWARRIOR 3
CONTROLS GUIDE
===========================================================================
Section 2: Controls List
===========================================================================

*****************
Movement Controls
*****************
Forward throttle Up
Reverse throttle Down
Turn left Left
Turn right Right
Twist left ,
Twist right .
Pitch up -
Pitch down =
Center torso to legs Shift /
Center legs /
Toggle throttle direction Backspace
0% throttle 1
10% throttle 2
30% throttle 3
40% throttle 4
50% throttle 5
60% throttle 6
70% throttle 7
80% throttle 8
90% throttle 9
100% throttle 0
Jump jet J
Jump jet reverse End
Jump jet left Del
Jump jet right Pg Dn
Rotate left Insert
Rotate right Pg Up
Get up G
Crouch C
Startup/shutdown S
Toggle MASC V

***************
Weapon Controls
***************
Fire weapon Space or Left-mouse-button
Next weapon group ]
Previous weapon group [
Previous weapon in group Ctrl+[
Next weapon in group Ctrl+]
Next weapon Enter
Weapon group 1 F1
Weapon group 2 F2
Weapon group 3 F3
Weapon group 4 F4
Weapon group 5 F5
Assign weapon to group 1 Shift+F1
Assign weapon to group 2 Shift+F2
Assign weapon to group 3 Shift+F3
Assign weapon to group 4 Shift+F4
Assign weapon to group 5 Shift+F5
Toggle fire mode \
Alpha strike Numpad enter
Flush coolant F
Override thermal shutdown O
Jettison ammo Shift+K

*************
View Controls
*************
Cycle camera mode X
Look left Alt+Numpad 4
Look right Alt+Numpad 6
Look up Alt+Numpad 2
Look down Alt+Numpad 8
Look back Alt+Numpad .
Look forward Alt+Numpad 5
Cycle resolution Shift+V

******************
Targeting Controls
******************
Target next enemy E
Target previous enemy Shift+E
Target nearest enemy Ctrl+E
Target next ally W
Target previous ally Shift+W
Target nearest ally Ctrl+W
Target object under reticule Q
Clear target selection T
Target head Numpad 8
Target left arm Numpad 7
Target right arm Numpad 9
Target center torso Numpad 5
Target left torso Numpad 4
Target right torso Numpad 6
Target left leg Numpad 1
Target right leg Numpad 3

****************
Cockpit Controls
****************
Zoom reticule Z
Lock zoom reticule Numpad 0
Toggle torso mode Ctrl+Numpad 0
Freelock L or Right-mouse-button
Toggle damage display D
Toggle enemy damage display Ctrl+D
Toggle radar size R
Toggle radar mode Alt+R
Toggle radar map Shift+R
Toggle HUD on/off H
Toggle AMS on/off A

**********************
Communication Controls
**********************
Attack my target F6
Defend my target F7
Follow me F8
Hold position F9
Repair in MFB F10
Lancemate command screen F11
Lock awaiting orders Shift+F11
Cancel awaiting orders Ctrl+F11
Order MFB M
Next op point N
Previous op point Shift+N
Nearest op point Ctrl+N
Send message to team Numpad -
Send message to all Numpad *

****************
Mission Controls
****************
Mission objectives F12
Exit mission Ctrl+Q
Message window `
Thrax
Cad
Thrax
23,417 Posts
All of those can be condensed down into the buttons I outlined.

Seriously, nobody needs a button for every 10% of the throttle. Nobody needs to look around in the cockpit when there's a HUD. Orders can be controlled with an on-screen radial interface. Weapon group assignments can be managed with 2 buttons: assign and cycle.

So on and so forth. MW2's control set was absurdly complicated for no particular reason.
Grimnoc
I don't need no stinkin avatar
Grimnoc
283 Posts
Okay, my main point is simply this; the Xbox 360 control scheme does not allow for the complicated sim nature of the older MechWarrior games. That's simply it. The new Mechwarrior looks to be a great game and I'll most likely buy it, but that is completely seperate from the truth of the matter.

Get up, crouch, flush coolants, jettison ammo, targetting specific parts of the enemy mech, start-up & shut-down, and yes, turning your head are all sim-like functions that were integral to making the MechWarrior games into what they were; action-y, sim-y mech combat-y games.

Are the controls a tad cumbersome? Yes. Could they be refined? Sure they could, but in doing so you will sacrifice some of (once again, let me hear it!) the sim nature of MechWarrior.

Yeah, you could replace look-around controls with a static HUD, but this illustrates my point precisely. The looking around is the sim aspect that will be lost. It's unnecessary to a degree, but it is there to put you in the mech and make you the pilot, just as pilots in real life can look around in their cockpits, so can you in the mech. This isn't a video game that directly translates your input to a mech which moves like an action hero. It is a game which simulates the experience of placing a 100 ton piece of machinery between your control input and the results you seek. Taking this aspect out of MechWarrior is like taking Max Payne, shaving off his hair, placing a beard on him, sticking him in Mexico, making him teenage angsty, and still trying to call it noir. Can it be a great game? Absolutely. Is it noir? No. Is Max Payne noir? Yes. Now, you call the disconnect.
Gargoyle
We can't stop here...
Gargoyle
4,685 Posts

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Taking this aspect out of MechWarrior is like taking Max Payne, shaving off his hair, placing a beard on him, sticking him in Mexico, making him teenage angsty, and still trying to call it noir. Can it be a great game? Absolutely. Is it noir? No. Is Max Payne noir? Yes. Now, you call the disconnect.
What if Max Payne were bald and fat? Still noir, just a different attitude.
_k_
deep in the bush
_k_
1,239 Posts

» Subscriber

I looked around a lot, when you split two mechs and the torso rotation speed isn't enough to get that last salvo off you need to look right to swing an arm farther some times. Honestly if they cut down the massive number of functions it would not be the same game on the PC. I had all the control buttons on my sidewinder programmed for something that got used, and yes I require the 10%, prefer <5%, intervals in throttle control so I can combat all weight classes.
drasnor
124 Golden Eye Drive
drasnor
2,292 Posts
I started playing MW on my MS Sidewinder Precision Pro. It's still a great joystick, but I've moved on to the Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar w/ TM Elite Pedals. Twist sticks are great but the pedals give you a lot more control. Your torso never twists uncommanded in the middle of turning and the awesome factor of having to stomp on something all the time never gets old. I'm saving up for some Simpeds though so I can map the jump jets to my toe brakes...

Also, MW3 controls can easily be mapped down to control pads by mapping one button as a Shift button. This allows you to swap layouts at a simple press which is great for making sure you fire the correct TIC or popping into Free Look for that difficult snipe shot. The real trouble is the dead zones on the analog sticks for most gamepads.

-drasnor
__________________ [folding_sig2]


Gargoyle
We can't stop here...
Gargoyle
4,685 Posts

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... and yes I require the 10%, prefer <5%, intervals in throttle control so I can combat all weight classes.
I just use the throttle on the joystick for that.
_k_
deep in the bush
_k_
1,239 Posts

» Subscriber

I do normally but some times the throttle doesn't want to stop where I want it to so I have used key commands a lot. But I really just can't wait for this game no matter what it turns into.
Grimnoc
I don't need no stinkin avatar
Grimnoc
283 Posts
I do normally but some times the throttle doesn't want to stop where I want it to so I have used key commands a lot. But I really just can't wait for this game no matter what it turns into.
I'm with you there _k_!
UPSLynx
The Dean of Computer Graphics
UPSLynx
2,141 Posts
All of those can be condensed down into the buttons I outlined.

Seriously, nobody needs a button for every 10% of the throttle. Nobody needs to look around in the cockpit when there's a HUD. Orders can be controlled with an on-screen radial interface. Weapon group assignments can be managed with 2 buttons: assign and cycle.

So on and so forth. MW2's control set was absurdly complicated for no particular reason.
I disagree with you. It wasn't overly complicated, I used almost every one of those crazy controls. Once you mastered the control set, you became an incredibly formidable player online. Being able to look right and swing your arm out for a shot, like K said, is very valuable. Ammo jettison could save your life in many occasions. 10% Throttle increments are essential (very much in the way 'matching speed' in tie fighter worked), directional controls for jump jets to assure proper death from above procedures, manic coolant flushes to keep yourself from overheating, always keeping the temps at a critical level and hovering dangerously near to a critical reactor.

And oh! how many times did I punch the alpha strike key in a final, desperate attempt to survive a bout?

MechAssault was a great game, very fun. But it lost the depth that the MW series had. The complete customization of your mech from color/camo down to individual heat sinks and where they were located. You spent almost just as much time setting up your mech in the MW series as you did completing missions. MechAssault removed almost all of these details, which drove it further away from it's tabletop roots. It was a good game, but certainly a console game.

Garg, that's the kind of stuff that we mean when we talk sim elements. MW4 certainly had them, though to a lesser extent than 3. They kept the complexity while trimming the fat on some of the more nitpicky items. Alpha strike, for instance, was no longer a command in 4. Many purists (myself included) complained about the omission of such a canon-defining attack.
RWB
Thank God for Blue Monsters
RWB
7,357 Posts
I'd like to see a new MechCommander game for sure if this game does well. First thing my brother and friends(who knew me back in the day) said when I told them MW5 was coming was something along the lines of "nice knowing you". MW2 was my game, MW3 was my venture into online gaming and tournament play, MW4 was just a good time before the end but it was not my fav. Mech Assault wasn't my fortay but it was alright and MechCommander was good fun as well. I don't think they made a MW game I didn't like but MW2 is still my fav. Reading the novels especially the ones by Micheal Stackpole and knowing the history of the universe was and still is something I enjoy doing.
__________________
chrisWhite
Polygons
chrisWhite
602 Posts

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Oh boy, I'm soooo excited! Just need to buy a good stick and replace my POS computer and this is going to rock! Mech Warrior 2 was the pinnacle of my love for the series but I certainly enjoyed 4 as well.
__________________ Chris White
Twitter: @chrisWhite
Email/AIM: ChristopherDWhite@gmail.com
UPSLynx
The Dean of Computer Graphics
UPSLynx
2,141 Posts
I'd like to see a new MechCommander game for sure if this game does well.

I would LOVE a new mechcommander game as well. I was obsessed with the first MC game, it was one of the first PC games I bought (if you don't count the old stuff we played on our old 386).

My brother and I would spend hours in the mission editor (we had the gold edition) and putting together impossibly difficult scenarios and ramping up the resource limit, so there would be a ton of mechs on the battlefield, and missions would take well over an hour just to complete, if you could stay alive. At the end, mech parts littered every inch of the battlefield.

Mechcommander 1 is, in fact, where I got my forum name. Lynx was my favorite mechwarrior in that game, and my brother liked Hitman, which is where he got his name as well.
Grimnoc
I don't need no stinkin avatar
Grimnoc
283 Posts
Yeah, I preferred the first MechCommander over the second one.
Thrax
Cad
Thrax
23,417 Posts
I wanted to bump this with a fantastic narrated analysis of the game trailer: http://pc.ign.com/dor/objects/18954/...rr_070809.html

They rightly pointed out several elements I had missed in my fanboy fapping, namely the attention paid to timelines, Inner Sphere politicking, and some environmental/cockpit effects that I didn't notice.
UPSLynx
The Dean of Computer Graphics
UPSLynx
2,141 Posts
argh, I can't believe I didn't see those federated suns banners.

This is a great video, thanks for linking it.

It reminds me that I need to get back into picking apart Battletech canon. I haven't read any of the novels in awhile. I love battletech politics.

Man I'm excited for this game.
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