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Straight_Man
Playing with Virtual Painter
Straight_Man
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This is really not for just software, the DMCRA...

could, if passed and carried forward into LAW, apply to all copyrighted media. It is in the US house as House Resolution 107 of calendar year 2003. A representative to the US house has a bill introduced to mod the Digital Millenium Copyright Act to eliminate from enforcement fair use uses and implementations. It would give back the right to back up what you purchased for your own use only, and would let you record things to see or hear later in some cases. In essence it would retro-fit fair use back into the DMCA-- it is a MOD-THE-DMCA statute bill.

Not only many of us grass-roots folks out in America think the DMCA goes too far, US legislators also do (how many support it will be determined in part by how many folks in each region convince our legislators we mean business about this, and to which side we corporately want the business to flow). Take action as you see fit as far as personal participation, this thread can be used to discuss fair use versus how universal publishers' rights should be and where the boundary should be, and how they might be balanced without totally destroying enforcement and losing publishers so much money that they cannot make a profit due to how much is pirated of their goods. I'm starting it now because it is under consideration as a law at federal legislative levels in US, this is one of the parts of the checks and balances system that works in the US if USED to do so.

I do not want fighting with accusations, but an open discussion of views.

Note: DMCRA=Digital Millenium Consumer Rights Act
maxanon
Icrontic Posting Maniac
maxanon
381 Posts
What do you consider fair use? I guess that is the question. And does your definition of fair use impair the ability of a copyright holder to make money for their work?

I find that copyright abuse has gone a little too far and now a lot of it looks like blatant theft. However, finding a balance will be very difficult since people have different opinions.

I for one would allow for personal fair use (i.e. sharing of material amongst family members and close friends) but its a moral judgement. If I had a CD that my brother wanted a copy of, I don't see the big deal in giving him a copy to listen to. However, making a copy and allowing thousands of people to copy it would not be fair. Or, to allow him to scan an image that I have in a magazine for personal use should also be allowed. However, scanning the whole mag and making it available for free is not fair use, in my opinion.

The argument that one cannot control who copies what is not a valid one as you do have control (you knowingly allow people to have access to physical and digital material and if you don't then you're not being vigilant enough and should be held accountable). Libraries allow people to photocopy material (as they have the devices close by) and they pay a fee for that. There's a reason why group/institutional/company rates for journals and things are more expensive than personal memberships.

I agree that pricing is an issue, but that's a very circular situation. The more people don't pay for material the more the company needs to charge to recoup the losses.

I would be interested to hear what other people think of the definition of fair use.
oCoMiK
Thrive
oCoMiK
450 Posts
could, if passed and carried forward into LAW, apply to all copyrighted media. It is in the US house as House Resolution 107 of calendar year 2003. A representative to the US house has a bill introduced to mod the Digital Millenium Copyright Act to eliminate from enforcement fair use uses and implementations. It would give back the right to back up what you purchased for your own use only, and would let you record things to see or hear later in some cases. In essence it would retro-fit fair use back into the DMCA-- it is a MOD-THE-DMCA statute bill.

Not only many of us grass-roots folks out in America think the DMCA goes too far, US legislators also do (how many support it will be determined in part by how many folks in each region convince our legislators we mean business about this, and to which side we corporately want the business to flow). Take action as you see fit as far as personal participation, this thread can be used to discuss fair use versus how universal publishers' rights should be and where the boundary should be, and how they might be balanced without totally destroying enforcement and losing publishers so much money that they cannot make a profit due to how much is pirated of their goods. I'm starting it now because it is under consideration as a law at federal legislative levels in US, this is one of the parts of the checks and balances system that works in the US if USED to do so.

I do not want fighting with accusations, but an open discussion of views.

Note: DMCRA=Digital Millenium Consumer Rights Act
John,

Thanks for taking the time to start this thread as I've been wondering where a good place for a discussion of this nature should exist on this forum.

I've taken the liberty to include some links to organizations that clearly define what the DMCA is and the impact it has had on consumers, universities, and it's overall effect on stifling innovation.

Most people are unaware of the far reaching implications of this legislation. Some examples of DMCA violations include:
  • Discussing/publishing a method of how to circumvent copy protection on a piece of hardware/software.
  • Making an archival copy of a piece of software that you rightfully have license to use.
  • Copying a legally purchased game to the hard drive of a modified XBOX.
  • Removing the digital rights management from a legally obtained iTunes song so that you can play it on other devices.
This is just the tip of the iceberg as the DMCA is consistantly being used as an argument to protect supposed intellectual property (IP) in new and interesting ways.

EFF's H.R. 107 Information Page
321's Software Protect Fair Use Web Site
Stanford Fair Use & Copyright Center
Anti-DMCA.ORG

Ocomik

www.ocomik.net
www.ocomik.net/blog/index.html
oCoMiK
Thrive
oCoMiK
450 Posts
Where do I start?

What do you consider fair use? I guess that is the question. And does your definition of fair use impair the ability of a copyright holder to make money for their work?
Like you, my definition of what I would like fair use to be and what the courts have actually ruled are two distinctly different things. I definately believe that copyright holders should be paid for their work and that trading of copyrighted works without permission is OUT & OUT THEFT. Whether you share one copy or ten thousand, if the copyright holder did not grant permission than you are violating the law.

My definition of fair use is that I should be able to use media, that I legally have a license to, in any manner that does not place an undo hardship on either the copyright holder or the consumer. For example, I just recently started using "HYMN" to remove the DRM from my iTunes collection so that I could play my legally purchased music on another portable music device besides my iPod. Is Apple out any $$$ because of this? NO! Is it reasonable to expect that I should purchase additional copies of the same song to play on other portable devices? NO!

I also believe that fair use should grant me a license to make archival backups of the media that I have a license to as well. Why should I have to go and buy another copy of "Office Space" just because the DVD becomes unusable.

As for allowing me to share multiple copies, this becomes an extremely slippery slope. I could see something similar to the old "software rule" that would allow for more than one individual to access the media as long as it could not be used simultaneously by others.

I agree that pricing is an issue, but that's a very circular situation. The more people don't pay for material the more the company needs to charge to recoup the losses.
There is no connection between pricing and the issue of fair use. Pricing is used by many as an argument for why they feel that stealing media is not actually stealing. Despite this misguided belief, legally by definition it is still theft.

As for the circular argument, you're spot on. The music industry is always going to get their $$$ and don't care if it's done on the backs of their customers. I would have to believe that someday this will come back to bite them. Then again, perhaps it already has with the decline in CD sales over the last few years.

Ocomik

www.ocomik.net
www.ocomik.net/blog/index.html
MJO
Icrontian
MJO
947 Posts

Most people are unaware of the far reaching implications of this legislation. Some examples of DMCA violations include:
  • Discussing/publishing a method of how to circumvent copy protection on a piece of hardware/software.
  • Making an archival copy of a piece of software that you rightfully have license to use.
  • Copying a legally purchased game to the hard drive of a modified XBOX.
  • Removing the digital rights management from a legally obtained iTunes song so that you can play it on other devices.
The things you have pointed out, sounds a lot like the european INFOSOC.
It is a smilar initiative that is enforced in the E.C.

You do lack the tax on media though.
In Denmark and throughout most of the E.C there is a tax on videotapes, cd-r media, dvd-r media etc.
It seems that is not part of the DMCA or the DMRCA?
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oCoMiK
Thrive
oCoMiK
450 Posts
The things you have pointed out, sounds a lot like the european INFOSOC.
It is a smilar initiative that is enforced in the E.C.
One of things that I have gotten wind off (I'm taking this off the top of my head which greatly decreases my accuracy) is a push towards requiring countries to uphold the copyrights (or similar protections) of other countries.

For example, "playfair.org" posted their DRM removal software to sourceforge.net, whom subsequently recieved a DMCA complaint from Apple regarding the software and was forced to take it down. Playfair then moved overseas to India on www.sarovar.org so they could continue to make their software available. Apple continued to pursue Playfair and was able to convince sarovar.org to take down the software as well.

It is my understanding that sarovar.org did this of their own accord and actually could have refused. Had their been some type of international copyright legislation in place, sarovar.org could have been legally forced to take it down and also be required to pay damages to Apple.

Think about the precedent and ramifications that legislation of this nature sets.

Ocomik

www.ocomik.net
www.ocomik.net/blog/index.html
MJO
Icrontian
MJO
947 Posts
Elaborate Bytes, the company behind CloneCD and CloneDVD was forced to move the production of CloneCD out of Europe.
They were not allowed to produce or market CloneCD in Europe.

They moved to Antiqua, it is mentioned here:
http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/8215

And it seems that an international copyright law isn't far away.
DMCA and INFOSOC already have many similarities.
Actually INFOSOC also prohibits a shop from selling Region 1 DVD's.
That was one of the things that a lot of prople didn't like.
You can still get Region 1 DVD's, but i has to be personal import.
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