RAID 0 with 4 disks

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MERRICK

DAW Tech

334 Posts

7 Jun 2003, 5:53am

I've been a happy 2 disc ATA 100 RAID 0 user but I'm thinking of going for a 4 disc ATA 133 RAID 0. This is stricly to record/playback HD audio .wav

I remember that people at the old site (which I ain't mentioning by name no mo') said that the bench stats on the 2 vs. 4 disc array didn't justify the setup. But I see more DAW custom companies touting the 4 disk RAID enhancement.

Anyone have some experience on anything mentioned here?

__________________ Audio Engineer-DAW Tech
Bellsong Recording Studio

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Spinner

Getting it done!

5,003 Posts

7 Jun 2003, 6:29am

MERRICK said
I've been a happy 2 disc ATA 100 RAID 0 user but I'm thinking of going for a 4 disc ATA 133 RAID 0. This is stricly to record/playback HD audio .wav

I remember that people at the old site (which I ain't mentioning by name no mo') said that the bench stats on the 2 vs. 4 disc array didn't justify the setup. But I see more DAW custom companies touting the 4 disk RAID enhancement.

Anyone have some experience on anything mentioned here?

2 disk RAID 0 arrays are an all round good balance of increased performance over a stand alone IDE with the added risk of data corruption. The more disks you add to the array, the less the performance increase each time but the risk factor increases just as much as before. So yes when people in the past have said having a 4 disk array doesn't really justify the setup, I would have to agree.

However that was said probably with the everyday user in mind. When DAW starts coming into it then a 4 disk arrays benefits carry a little more weight. Because essentially RAID 0 arrays aren't just about performance, they are about bandwidth and load handling as well. Which is an important factor when audio and video editing is concerned.

In a nutshell : Where DAW is concerned, having a RAID 0 array with more than 2 discs, has added credability over its use on a system used mainly for everyday operations which really wouldn't benefit enough to warrant the setup.

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MERRICK

DAW Tech

334 Posts

7 Jun 2003, 6:43am

Thanks Spinner.

Does anyone have ATTO scores? I recall Equito had published something or else it was on one of his threads. Maybe Equito will join short-media?

Anyway, my RAID never hiccuped on me since day one (About two years now) and I was one big pussy when I was debating setting it up. I think I'm going to do it (4 disc) and use my old DAW for (non-RAID) Backup. More homework needed!

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Spinner

Getting it done!

5,003 Posts

7 Jun 2003, 4:37pm

Well post some scores when you get it setup.

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Shivian

Icrontic Duke of Haxor

225 Posts

10 Jun 2003, 3:00am

EQ is around... he mightn't have seen this thread yet.

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edcentric

Must keep folding

2,480 Posts

10 Jun 2003, 3:27am

What controler are you going to use?
Not an on board piece of junk I hope.

THG did a piece a while back on controlers. You can get some nice numbers going that way.
http://www.tomshardware.com/storage/20021112/index.html

Go one further and run raid5.

__________________ A couple of folding boxes;

DFI LP Nf4 U-D, A64X2, 2GB ram, is folding again
MSI P965 Pt, C2D E6300, 2GB ram, old reliable

2.5 million points and counting

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DeathStar

Getting settled in

9 Posts

10 Jun 2003, 7:49pm

If you're not shy about spending big bucks (And I do mean BIG), an U2W160 LVD Dual-Channel controller with 4 x Seagate X-15 or better drives will give you outstanding performance.

This is an Adaptec 3210s Dual-Channel with 128mb cache using 4K clusters and 128K stripes on Winbench 99 and a 10Gb transfer file; this graph represents STR (Sustained Transfer Rate):

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primesuspect

The Icrontic Guy

27,798 Posts

10 Jun 2003, 8:26pm

If you do the ebay thing, you can get into a fantasically quick RAID 0, a la tex's 200MB/sec sustained transfer madness.

He essentially got a $1000 caching SCSI RAID controller for $150, (LSI MegaRaid Elite 1600 - he got me one too woohoo!) and 2 Cheetah 15K3 U160 drives in RAID 0., with latency tweaks he hit over 200K in atto benchmarks.

I'll tell you, one thing I'm starting to warm up to is SATA RAID. I just set up a SATA RAID0 with 2xWD Raptor 10KRPM drives, and I hit 78K attos right out of the box with no tweaks. For price/performance, if you can't find $1000 caching raid scsi controllers on the cheap, SATA RAID might be a consideration. I would wait until a reputable company releases a raid controller tho. For IDE raid, the ONLY way to go is Adaptec 2400A caching controller. Basically you want to avoid any "software raid" cards, i.e. promise cards, etc. and get a true hardware raid solution (meaning the card has it's own processor and ram onboard).

__________________ "I offer my genius to the world, all I ask is you pick up my expenses"

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MarkTAW

Icrontic Duke of Haxor

168 Posts

10 Jun 2003, 9:18pm

prime - I have a question about SCSI and RAID. I'm not too familiar with SCSI or Raid, so forgive me if my terminology's off or if this is a "stupid question."

Most audio folks I talk to are happy with their non RAID IDE systems (2 drives - one for OS / Apps, one for files). When someone starts to exceed that kind of system, IDE RAID looks like it makes sense - price / performance wise.

Now Merrick seems to be reaching the limits of his IDE RAID system*. Might it make more sense for him to go SCSI RAID with 2 drives than IDE RAID with 4?

RAID drives are far from cheap, but do you think that's the surest way for him to get where he wants to go?

* Merrick - correct me if I'm wrong, you are IDE right?

__________________ www.marktaw.com

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primesuspect

The Icrontic Guy

27,798 Posts

10 Jun 2003, 9:46pm

MarkTAW said
prime - I have a question about SCSI and RAID. I'm not too familiar with SCSI or Raid, so forgive me if my terminology's off or if this is a "stupid question."

Most audio folks I talk to are happy with their non RAID IDE systems (2 drives - one for OS / Apps, one for files). When someone starts to exceed that kind of system, IDE RAID looks like it makes sense - price / performance wise.

Now Merrick seems to be reaching the limits of his IDE RAID system*. Might it make more sense for him to go SCSI RAID with 2 drives than IDE RAID with 4?

RAID drives are far from cheap, but do you think that's the surest way for him to get where he wants to go?

* Merrick - correct me if I'm wrong, you are IDE right?

It's a tough call. With high performace IDE options available, it's hard to justify the cost increase to go SCSI. Now, there are a ton of people who will say "with ebay you can get cheap SCSI" which is true, but when you're doing pro audio, you need stuff to work, and you need support, not a mishmash of random parts bought from random people with no support whatsoever. That's why for DAW, I have stuck with Adaptec 2400A IDE RAID controllers (which can be had for around $350 now) and huge IDE HDs. the other thing about SCSI is the capacity issue. Sure, you can put 8 73gb SCSI drives in RAID10 for a total of ~300gb, but it will cost you thousands of dollars in drives alone. With the adaptec 2400A you can put 4 250gb drives on it and have a 500gb RAID10 or a terabyte RAID0. You know as well as I do how gigantic audio files can get. I have a client whose studio pushes 1 terabyte of new data a WEEK. Storage and backup (and costs associated with such) are huge issues for studios, which is why IDE becomes a terribly attractive option. I would say that Merrick should probably look towards a really good caching IDE RAID such as the adaptec 2400a and (relatively) inexpensive huge IDE drives. For even better performance, you can start looking to serialATA, since performance has been very promising so far. However, price on good SATA drives is around the SCSI price point, so that is a roadblock. But I think that with the wide adoption we can look forward to of SATA, the drive prices will drop by the end of the year quite a bit.

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MERRICK

DAW Tech

334 Posts

21 Jun 2003, 4:06am

WTF?
I just chanced on this thread. I never got e-mail notice on it and I thought it died! Now I see it was going strong. ****!!

Okay after reading all this, yes I have on board Abit KT-7 RAID 0 ATA 100 x2 drives.

What is SATA? what do you mean by 10Krpm drives? Please explain.

I am not going with SCSI or E-bay

I like onboard RAID, what am I missing?

I know not to go software RAID controllers.

Guys I'm so sorry I missed this thread. I must've looked like a jerk not responding. Please keep it alive. Thanks.

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muddocktor

Wandering about

6,250 Posts

24 Jun 2003, 7:41pm

Ok MERRICK, your onboard RAID on that old KT7 board is a software RAID controller and sponges cycles and ram from the mobo for use. A true hardware IDE RAID controller will be an add-in pci card with it's own controller chips and own dedicated ram, like the Adaptec card that prime is talking about. 3ware also makes some fine hardware IDE RAID cards(from what I've read, not from personal experience) in both ATA133 and SATA flavors too. You will pay around $250-$500 for a good hardware RAID card populated with a decent amount of ram.

__________________ I have some computers running Seti@Home.

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MERRICK

DAW Tech

334 Posts

25 Jun 2003, 1:08am

The good news is that I'm a ways off from making purchases. The bad news is that I'm a ways off from making purchases. So I appreciate patience. I research a lot before I buy.

muddocktor

I understand what you mean about the on board RAID Stealing resources from the MOBO. Actually, this is welcome news since I want to use the fastest channel I can for my C partition and The 4 disk RAID would mean I'd have to use the primary IDE channel for C:\. A dedicated pci card sounds like a good solution.

Since I am a ways off from purchase the (new to me) SATA concept is worth checking out if there is a chance of price dropping. What is the best place to learn about SATA?

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RAID 0 with 4 disks

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